Tiamat's 2019 training camp observations, thoughts, ramblings (who the hell knows at this point?)

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Tia, thanks for the camp insights for the folks who can't make it up that way. It is greatly appreciated.

You know Tia luh da kids.

I'll have a bit more for you guys Wednesday night.

[Tour2ma]

On 7/28/2019 at 11:36 PM, Ibleedbrown said:

I feel like l watched both clips multiple times trying to see what you see, but not sure l do. I saw more of a gallop with his feet. Right left, right left, etc. In the first clip maybe l saw a point where both feet were in the air at the same time when Myles was pulling off spin move number two.

In clip 2 l saw him lose his base when his right foot went down near his left foot, but he regained it with a push off with the right hand to Myles’ gut and got his right foot back in place.

I’m not sure any of this equates to “better technique”, but l’ve always felt Robinson’s main bugaboo was a lack of tenacity. 

You nailed the one time Robinson hopped up into the air in clip one....

And yes, there is some shuffling when he has time, but there's as much foot-to-foot short-hopping as there is shuffling.

As for his bugaboo... to my mind it's his athleticism... he was such a specimen that he was able to dominate at every level through Div I and he never had to learn Tech.

[Ibleedbrown]

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

You nailed the one time Robinson hopped up into the air in clip one....

And yes, there is some shuffling when he has time, but there's as much foot-to-foot short-hopping as there is shuffling.

As for his bugaboo... to my mind it's his athleticism... he was such a specimen that he was able to dominate at every level through Div I and he never had to learn Tech.

Oddly enough good ol’ Maserati driving former OL coach with his Powerpoint of Rhinos somehow resonates with me. Who knew that Animal Planet could translate to football? 

My recollection is what it is, skewed at best, but something about undersized blitzers gets me re: Robinson. Like he’s tentative or something. 

Like it’s the blitzing safety that he’s not comfortable with leveling instead of the DE, a guy more his size.  

[tiamat63]

Overcast and juuuuuust a bit breezy today.   Should be fun.

[tiamat63]

Dline putting in work with position drills and 1 on 1.    Chad Thomas is an enigma - kid shows out until things are full speed 11's.   It was the same Saturday morning when i saw his limited looks.  I can't tell if he just hesitates, thinks too much or doesn't trust the process.  Looks every bit the part, but between the ears might be an issue.

[tiamat63]

Backers looked to tighten things up early.  3 straight incompletions. Baker comes back to roast them underneath to Higgy and Callaway back to back.

[tiamat63]

Greedy with some time in at the 1's.  Getting doses of the defense he can handle. Praise Dorsey for CB depth.

[tiamat63]

Baker picked... Pretty sure by Redwine. Questionable read and throw. One he didn't need to make.

[tiamat63]

Just saw an alert - Michael Thomas got PAID. 

I'm still bitter about that and I'll never forgive Haslam and Sashi for letting such an obvious talent slip through our fingers.

 

Aaaaaaand back to watching.

[tiamat63]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:48 AM, jrb12711 said:

I'd also be interested in the kicking battle if there's anything interesting. I have a bit of a vested interest as Greg is a friend of a friend. Gut feeling though is that Seibert makes the squad, seems unlikely to draft a kicker that high without planning to have him on the 53.

 

Seibert isn't winning the kicking battle barring a serious come-to-football-jesus moment.

[tiamat63]

That's my bad from earlier - i was on the phone. Stanton threw the pick. I was watching the secondary and trying to talk at the same time.   This is why you take friends with you.  Buddy system.

That having not been Baker - beyond my mistake, was on fire sans the few early incompletions.

 

Greedy had some rough moments today.  Can't stress this enough, Higgy is a glue for this offense.  Callaway is, IMHO... Our 4th receiver and 5th target in the pecking order depending on how you like to distribute the ball.

[tiamat63]

Sadly I have to head into work for a few hours. I'll give some quick thoughts later when I'm in front of my laptop.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Just saw an alert - Michael Thomas got PAID. 

I'm still bitter about that and I'll never forgive Haslam and Sashi for letting such an obvious talent slip through our fingers.

 

Aaaaaaand back to watching.

a lot of us also knew not taking Thomas was one of the stupidest moves by Hue and crew.

"On April 29, 2016, Thomas was drafted by the New Orleans Saints in the second round (47th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft. He was the sixth wide receiver to be selected that year."

I kept waiting to hear Thomas's name........not only did the Browns pass on him, ...they took everybody knows who at wr instead. dammit. just extremely stupid.

I think Canton Mike nearly threw his Hebrew National hotdog into the wall.

[Canton Mike]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

a lot of us also knew not taking Thomas was one of the stupidest moves by Hue and crew.

"On April 29, 2016, Thomas was drafted by the New Orleans Saints in the second round (47th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft. He was the sixth wide receiver to be selected that year."

I kept waiting to hear Thomas's name........not only did the Browns pass on him, ...they took everybody knows who at wr instead. dammit. just extremely stupid.

I think Canton Mike nearly threw his Hebrew National hotdog into the wall.

I don't think I have ever been more pissed about a draft pick (MISS!) than Corey Coleman over Mike Thomas!!!  AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!

I hate being reminded of that day.

Mike

[jrb12711]

5 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

I don't think I have ever been more pissed about a draft pick (MISS!) than Corey Coleman over Mike Thomas!!!  AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!

I hate being reminded of that day.

Mike

Coleman was the first wide receiver taken that year too. Let that one keep sinking in.

Also fun fact: the first 5 picks of that draft have all made the pro bowl, and 6 of top 7 (Ronnie Stanley is the outlier, but even he's still a nice player). That draft just hurts my soul.

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Coleman was the first wide receiver taken that year too. Let that one keep sinking in.

Also fun fact: the first 5 picks of that draft have all made the pro bowl, and 6 of top 7 (Ronnie Stanley is the outlier, but even he's still a nice player). That draft just hurts my soul.

CC was PFF's top rated WR that year.  This is why I talk about not entrenching one's self with dogma.  PFF's grading model is their God.  So when you come across a statistical anomaly that doesn't quite match film, it's best to take a step back and ask the context on arriving at a conclusion.  Same can be said for Ogbah in the same draft.  

Analytics should validate tape and tape should validate analytics.  To use any other approach is operate with blinders on.

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Same can be said for Ogbah in the same draft.  

yep. his college tape was very avg. Big strong kid but anybody tgat knows D line play could see the stiffness around the edge and the proclivity to lose his stack in the run game. But PFF says........🙄

[Orion]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

CC was PFF's top rated WR that year.

Thank you.

The top receivers in that draft were not good right from the get-go.

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Sadly I have to head into work

I hate how it disrupts our day(s). 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

Coleman was the first wide receiver taken that year too. Let that one keep sinking in.

Also fun fact: the first 5 picks of that draft have all made the pro bowl, and 6 of top 7 (Ronnie Stanley is the outlier, but even he's still a nice player). That draft just hurts my soul.

[jrb12711]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

CC was PFF's top rated WR that year.  This is why I talk about not entrenching one's self with dogma.  PFF's grading model is their God.  So when you come across a statistical anomaly that doesn't quite match film, it's best to take a step back and ask the context on arriving at a conclusion.  Same can be said for Ogbah in the same draft.  

Analytics should validate tape and tape should validate analytics.  To use any other approach is operate with blinders on.

Yeah, I don't go too far down rabbit holes but it's crazy to think about it from a literal stand point. It's amazing how many busts were sure fire guys in terms of data.

I swear, there's a million bazillion dollars in breaking through the data to determine any correlations to what cause "busts" in what were considered top-tier dudes. I'm convinced there's something in there to drive the point of "despite great analytics, THIS is the red flag most busts had".

[tiamat63]

So my view wasn't the greatest at times, I arrived there a bit late.     Note to self and to you - get to the gates an hour before camp starts.  So not too much scribbling aside from the mental notes but what I have so far...

- Greedy got some run with the 1's.  Didn't look out of place, but the knock on him at LSU was dealing with longer more physical receivers.   His trouble with Higgins at times vs the body of work vs Callaway, while not something I want to overblow, only feeds that mantra.   DB, more than anything, is a mindset.   But good news is, he battled while he was out there and didn't seemingly walk around like he had been defeated.

- Can't speak enough about tempo.  Nevermind just getting the defense into a bad personnel grouping - it gets Baker where he needs to be in rhythm.  I'm hoping the Brownies use it a bit earlier in games as opposed to the medium or latter stages beyond the 2m drill.   Baker had those 3 early inc but once he got going he was decisive and accurate the whole day through.

- The Redwine pick.  One of my knocks on him in film was his depth, angles of pursuit and field awareness.    Can't recall the specific game but I do remember one where he's playing middle 1/3 and retreats to the middle of the endzone, when the initial snap was from the 15.  Only to have the receiver catch the ball right in front of his face.    That's depth and awareness.  He showed better fundamentals and a good opening step when going for a pick today.    He will learn a great deal behind Randall.

- Njoku looks stronger.    Specifically in his legs and lower body.   You can tell that boy has been putting in time with the S&C coaches.   Which is good because this coaching staff believes in using their big bodies down the seams and in the middle of the field.  I'm just hoping Baker is patient and smart when delivering the ball.

- Back to Hollywood.     Can't say enough about this kid.  He's your 3rd receiver and you can take that to the bank.   Starts with the chemistry he has with Baker, then you toss in his route command and hands.   Very happy to have him with this team.   It will be Higgy and Landry that will be the one's the Ravens worry about dealing with the most this year.     Side note - aside from Balt.  I can't think of a secondary in the AFCN that has the ability to deal with our receivers.    Even then, while the Ravens have a very talented secondary, I'm still trying to picture how the matchups work.   But if you see Rashard draw Jimmy Smith, then you know the opposing coaches are paying him the respect he deserves.   Possibly the most slept on player of this offense not named Chubb.

- Callaway's inconsistent hands are going to cost him, if they already haven't.       Hands, feet, eyes.  If you don't have all 3 then you won't stick as an NFL WR.   As I posted before, he's your 4th receiver and 5th in targets behind Odell, Landry, Higgy & Njoku.  Might even be 6th depending on the screen game and how Hunt's suspension fares.       He's slipping down the depth chart.   Worst part is, it's not like he is having a terrible camp.   But it goes back to one of my favorite words, consistency.  You have to be a reliable target.

- Sibert has rookie struggles.   Problem is that when you struggle as a rookie kicker, it's incredibly difficult to get the job from the incumbent.    Greg should win the starting job based on being a bit more consistent and a veteran presence who has dealt with NFL pressure.

- Dline owned straight sets.   I guess I shouldn't say "owned", but when Baker was dropping back without the use of ball action, he was doing so frequently pressured.   Credit to Baker for getting the ball out all of camp in the manner he did.  But eventually those pressures will turn into turnovers, sacks, incompletions etc etc.     A testament to our dline and a knock on our Oline.   Speaking of....

- The RG spot.   I said it was Kush 1a and Kalis 1b.   While I'm 100% sure the battle comes down to them, that order may be a bit reversed.   Just watch closely preseason.  Corbett is finished at that spot save for depth as a swing man.   Unless he is getting C or RT looks, he's been soundly beaten by the vets above him.

- 11 Personnel.   Really nothing more to say.  You're going to see this team utilize space in a way it hasn't done in a long time and they'll do so in a variety of ways.    One of the many formations I had gone over in my mind to best suite this teams style was the gun trey that I first remember being the staple of the Vince Young Longhorns.     Combined with Njoku looking stronger and more explosive down low... this would fit into the hands of our receiver strength in a similar mold to the 05 Horns personnel.        (Don't ask why that came to mind, it's a weird association that just did)

- Hilliard.  He's more than just a 'serviceable' back.   The kid could start in a pinch and I wouldn't be scared.  He runs patient, smooth and determined.  As some would say a very 'intelligent' runner.  Kid made the most of his blocking and gained yards he line didn't even block for either.   Another home grown depth talent we can be secure with.

- Coach Holcomb.  No, not Kelly Holcomb.  Our linebackers coach.  That man DOES NOT fuck around.   I don't know who's ear he got into when the 2's were on the field, but whoever it was learned what their mistake was reaaaaal fast.   

- Chris Smith.  Was out there a ton.  Unless somebody took his number when I wasn't looking?   I still stick with my gut that he makes a roster spot.  The battle for the dline depth will get really interesting.   I still think it shakes out with the coaching staff biting nails over who they're cutting.  Quality bodies but only so many to keep.

 

 

That's the mental stuff mostly.   Kept looking for a few players to stand out but either didn't see them make plays (Whitehead) or didn't see them out there period (Avery).

 

 

 

 

[tiamat63]

I'll do the legwork for you, this is the first formation grouping that came to mind when matching our personnel.     Granted there are... a ton more.    For whatever reason when I pictured Baker leading this offense out for the opening play of the year, this is what I see.

From memory - Vince, Selvin Young/Jamaal Charles, Romance Taylor, Quan Cosby? I think? David Thomas and Limus Sweed.        

 

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Great insight into what is going on in camp. I really hope Callaway can fix his drop issues. He is a vital part of the offense.

I saw on ESPN that Baker had some issues with the #1 receivers. Something about them not working back towards the ball. What a leader we got, man.

[gumby73]

any insight on TE Demetetrius Harris? Hands/blocking. Who saw Devalves snaps? Orson Charles/P.Brown?  Did RB AJ Ovellette see any touches? thanks

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

I don't think I have ever been more pissed about a draft pick (MISS!) than Corey Coleman over Mike Thomas!!!  AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!

I hate being reminded of that day.

Mike

More than the night the Browns traded up to take Johnny Football? 

That was the night I almost became a Packers fan. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Great insight into what is going on in camp. I really hope Callaway can fix his drop issues. He is a vital part of the offense.

I saw on ESPN that Baker had some issues with the #1 receivers. Something about them not working back towards the ball. What a leader we got, man.

Callaway gives the Browns the ability to open up the top of the defense, his ability to produce is important. Maybe not vital, but important. 

Landry and Higgins are more the move-the-chain guys, and OBJ is a spectacular talent when he's actually on the field. Callaway gives the Browns explosiveness in the pass game. 

[Orion]

4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 Hilliard.  He's more than just a 'serviceable' back.   The kid could start in a pinch and I wouldn't be scared.  He runs patient, smooth and determined.  As some would say a very 'intelligent' runner.

Remember Ogbo (Ogbonnaya)?   He was a very smart RB.  Good blocker, always knew who and where to block, a good receiving back and knew how to be open, ran smart.  -  Can Hilliard block?

...good to hear Higgins is doing well.  We need a solid 3rd receiver.  He's gotta stay healthy though.

[TexasAg1969]

I was listening to NFL Radio yesterday and they were discussion Njoku needing to improve his catching for balls coming in below the waste. They say he is excellent at getting open and catching anything high, but still drops the low ones in practice more often than not, especially on crossing routes over the middle. Hopefully Baker figures this out too and sends 'em high every time he's targeted.

[tiamat63]

10 hours ago, gumby73 said:

any insight on TE Demetetrius Harris? Hands/blocking. Who saw Devalves snaps? Orson Charles/P.Brown?  Did RB AJ Ovellette see any touches? thanks

 

Not sure which TE but it wasn't Njoku - Saw a gun double tight and the wing pulled across for a kickout on the backside end. Got there in a hurry and walked, I think it was Zettel?, clean out of the play.  

So there's that...

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Remember Ogbo (Ogbonnaya)?   He was a very smart RB.  Good blocker, always knew who and where to block, a good receiving back and knew how to be open, ran smart.  -  Can Hilliard block?

...good to hear Higgins is doing well.  We need a solid 3rd receiver.  He's gotta stay healthy though.

I remember Obby. Had the misfortune of playing for Shurmur.

Hilliard can block, otherwise he wouldn't be getting the snaps in this offense that he has.

Higgy is more than solid. Might have legit fantasy value.