TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I did urge everyone to register and check it out EARLY... Some people are simply uncoachable... I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. Had to refuel first before eventually finding my way on. That salty small bag of popcorn you recommended at halftime hit the spot on recharging the salt water levels.🌊🏄♂️ EDIT: Oh yeah and some Venezuelan chocolate from El Rey Chocolates in Stonewall, Texas. They sell only Venezuelan chocolate there. But it's right in the heart of the wine district along the Pedernales River. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: Baker hasn't regressed, the defenses and game planning have advanced. And the oline isn't the same at center. He has regressed... in his effectiveness... as I see it as well because is playing "tighter". And Tretter was the Center last season... started all 16 games. Only OL change is Zeitler's missing at RG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Vagitron said: Or a stud corner/safety came on to the market that they scouted heavily who is in his second year with plenty of years left. The steeler defense is immediately better. While this is true....he was, perhaps is, considered a stud; and he does make that defensive backfield better imo. They were bad, but now they are better. Still does not help with the QB situation....which remains to be seen....and only helps a bit with the talent deficit now from prior years. And what is the status of the Conner injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: He has regressed... in his effectiveness... as I see it as well because is playing "tighter". And Tretter was the Center last season... started all 16 games. Only OL change is Zeitler's missing at RG. oops. you're right. RG isn't the same at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Baker seemed hesitant and indecisive at times, especially when he tried rolling out. There were constantly issues with getting the play in on time and getting the play off before the clock struck -0-. It greatly disallowed him from reading the defenses properly. Why is this? Freddie being indecisive in his play calling? IMO being both HC and OC doesn't work....we have seen it fail here before, most recently with Hue. Maybe it will just take Freddie time since he has only 2 games under his belt......but the upcoming schedule does not give him time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to. Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....? I think your cause and effect are disjointed... Last season Baker was great at getting the ball out quickly with only the occasional deep shot... I really don't see a major difference in the playcalling this season so far excepting fewer snaps under Center which is the key to an effective PAP attack. Plus so far our rushing attack has been good... certainly was in Game 2. Game 1? Not that much less so, but we were playing behind the sticks so much due to penalties that we couldn't go to it as much. Otherwise what is different is that Baker is not getting the ball out quickly??? Could be better coverage, but Given the upgrade of our WR crew, I doubt it. Could be rust... but rust more explains "bad" than inconsistent... Is he not reading the D as effectively? Maybe, but again, I doubt it. Is he turning down windows he threw into last year? I think so... and the only reason he would is that he's gotten "cautious"... That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.... Freddie!!! More snaps under Center, PLEASE... Set up that PAP game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Was there improvement from last week?? Yes Was it as exciting as last year...no Do they need to work on stuff...of course. Nuff said Hope njoku is ok After the years we have had..to wake up complaining after a win is silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 On 9/12/2019 at 11:18 AM, Tour2ma said: I urge all that plan to enter The Browns Board Tavern (TBBT) to do so well in advance of kickoff. This will include registering (free) and verifying your email addy, a requirement I have been able to set. 21 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: I was busy coaching some players half my age and less on the finer points of racquetball for about 3 1/2 hours up until about an hour before gametime. 🌊🏄♂️ Peddle it somewhere else, Gramps... I "urged" last Thursday! 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tour2ma said: Peddle it somewhere else, Gramps... I "urged" last Thursday! 😎 I don't recall that-Gramps Ag😮 BTW my grandkids gave me a T-shirt that reads: GRAMPS. THE MAN. THE MYTH. THE LEGEND. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I think your cause and effect are disjointed... Last season Baker was great at getting the ball out quickly with only the occasional deep shot... I really don't see a major difference in the playcalling this season so far excepting fewer snaps under Center which is the key to an effective PAP attack. Plus so far our rushing attack has been good... certainly was in Game 2. Game 1? Not that much less so, but we were playing behind the sticks so much due to penalties that we couldn't go to it as much. Otherwise what is different is that Baker is not getting the ball out quickly??? Could be better coverage, but Given the upgrade of our WR crew, I doubt it. Could be rust... but rust more explains "bad" than inconsistent... Is he not reading the D as effectively? Maybe, but again, I doubt it. Is he turning down windows he threw into last year? I think so... and the only reason he would is that he's gotten "cautious"... That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.... Freddie!!! More snaps under Center, PLEASE... Set up that PAP game! Upvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I saw the same as Tour did. I cannot tell if the playcalling was that different (I'm not an expert) but the sense for me was that Baker didn't want to force the ball. I'm OK with it for a few reasons: 1. There are games like last night in which the only thing that the offense is required to do is scoring some points and not making mistakes. I'd take a boring win before a rollercoaster of losses and wins all season through. 2. I'd rather see Baker being "overcautious" some games in order to learn when to take risks than him not changing one bit. Jameis Winston comes to mind. He ALWAYS takes risks and I haven't seen a calm game by him ever. Smart people learn to tune their instincts and change their habbits. Probaboy Baker was a bit overcautious and not "loose" but him being able to changing his playstyle a bit shows me that he is able to change and progress. In any case, you always can count on him "loosening up" in some laser throws every once in a while, as we saw yesterday. I have always been afraid of Baker turning into an INT machine due to his aggresiveness, so watching him being calm yesterday is not that bad for me. EDIT: I don't expect him to end up becoming a cerebral Tom Brady, but I don't want a Favre either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said: I don't recall that-Gramps Ag😮 BTW my grandkids gave me a T-shirt that reads: GRAMPS. THE MAN. THE MYTH. THE LEGEND. ALL IN HIS OWN MIND 😁 fify 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 52 minutes ago, Nero said: 1. There are games like last night in which the only thing that the offense is required to do is scoring some points and not making mistakes. I'd take a boring win before a rollercoaster of losses and wins all season through. 2. I'd rather see Baker being "overcautious" some games in order to learn when to take risks than him not changing one bit. Jameis Winston comes to mind. He ALWAYS takes risks and I haven't seen a calm game by him ever. Smart people learn to tune their instincts and change their habbits. Probaboy Baker was a bit overcautious and not "loose" but him being able to changing his playstyle a bit shows me that he is able to change and progress. In any case, you always can count on him "loosening up" in some laser throws every once in a while, as we saw yesterday. I have always been afraid of Baker turning into an INT machine due to his aggresiveness, so watching him being calm yesterday is not that bad for me. EDIT: I don't expect him to end up becoming a cerebral Tom Brady, but I don't want a Favre either. Agree... but (see below)... "Overcautious(ness)" has no place in football... sorry. Not trying to go all semantical on ya (even tho I prolly am), but the word is "conservative"... and it should reside on the sideline with the playcaller.... not on the field. Yes, Freddie should have been relatively conservative all nite... and even more with us up 10 and our D dominating the depleted Jets Offense. Even the quick slant to OBJ for the gamebreaker was a conservative call. That said... Whatever route combination is in a call Freddie phones into Baker, it is then Baker's job to select the best possible target based upon the reads he gets pre- and post-snap... and then cut it loose to that target. And "cut it loose" is the operative phrase... you can't guide the ball... you can't aim it... you cut it loose. It's the same for a frozen rope as it is a touch pass. Same as it is for an MLB pitcher... fast ball or change up or curve... you cut it loose and trust your body to remember the thousands of times you've thrown that pitch before. I'm sure there are analogous futbol examples as well. IF you cut it loose and have been fooled and it leads to a pick, then you tip your hat to the opposing DC and get busy learning how you were fooled so We don't Get Fooled again... No NO! This is the NFL... windows are more often than not tight even for open targets. We know Baker can do this... we saw it last year and we saw it in Game 1 and we saw it last nite. It's just that we're seeing "something else" we've not seen before this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 13 hours ago, hoorta said: Go figure that one Vag. Sure, you got a great player- but don't tell me he's the one piece that gets you to the Super Bowl this year. Serious upgrade to the Steelers piss poor secondary? Did you just call me Vag or are you referring to the actual vag? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Agree... but (see below)... "Overcautious(ness)" has no place in football... sorry. Not trying to go all semantical on ya (even tho I prolly am), but the word is "conservative"... and it should reside on the sideline with the playcaller.... not on the field. Yes, Freddie should have been relatively conservative all nite... and even more with us up 10 and our D dominating the depleted Jets Offense. Even the quick slant to OBJ for the gamebreaker was a conservative call. That said... Whatever route combination is in a call Freddie phones into Baker, it is then Baker's job to select the best possible target based upon the reads he gets pre- and post-snap... and then cut it loose to that target. And "cut it loose" is the operative phrase... you can't guide the ball... you can't aim it... you cut it loose. It's the same for a frozen rope as it is a touch pass. Same as it is for an MLB pitcher... fast ball or change up or curve... you cut it loose and trust your body to remember the thousands of times you've thrown that pitch before. I'm sure there are analogous futbol examples as well. IF you cut it loose and have been fooled and it leads to a pick, then you tip your hat to the opposing DC and get busy learning how you were fooled so We don't Get Fooled again... No NO! This is the NFL... windows are more often than not tight even for open targets. We know Baker can do this... we saw it last year and we saw it in Game 1 and we saw it last nite. It's just that we're seeing "something else" we've not seen before this season. True that. Though there are some factors that may have affected his performance last night. First, I wouldn't say the Jets have a bad defense and second and foremost, Njoku and other receivers have got pretty big hits on 50/50 passes that Baker had made, so he might have been thinking on not risking another receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Vagitron said: Or a stud corner/safety came on to the market that they scouted heavily who is in his second year with plenty of years left. The steeler defense is immediately better. Me and Tour addressed this in another thread- Sure, as with the Browns "drafting" OBJ with our first round pick, you "drafted" Minkah with your first round pick next year. Great- probably better than you could have done, unless the Steeler train derails this year- and if you don't think that's a distinct possibility, you have your rose colored homer glasses on. What I'm seeing for the Steelers in 2020 is what we're going to see from them in 2019, going to be mighty tough to upgrade. Now if by another stroke of Steeler luck, Rudolph turns out to be another third round QB Russell Wilson good, it might be another story. I will say right now I'm taking the Steelers to go 0-3 when they travel to the West coast to play the 49ers this week. 14 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: Did you just call me Vag or are you referring to the actual vag? 😂 LOL, see above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Agree... but (see below)... "Overcautious(ness)" has no place in football... sorry. Not trying to go all semantical on ya (even tho I prolly am), but the word is "conservative"... and it should reside on the sideline with the playcaller.... not on the field. Yes, Freddie should have been relatively conservative all nite... and even more with us up 10 and our D dominating the depleted Jets Offense. Even the quick slant to OBJ for the gamebreaker was a conservative call. That said... Whatever route combination is in a call Freddie phones into Baker, it is then Baker's job to select the best possible target based upon the reads he gets pre- and post-snap... and then cut it loose to that target. And "cut it loose" is the operative phrase... you can't guide the ball... you can't aim it... you cut it loose. It's the same for a frozen rope as it is a touch pass. Same as it is for an MLB pitcher... fast ball or change up or curve... you cut it loose and trust your body to remember the thousands of times you've thrown that pitch before. I'm sure there are analogous futbol examples as well. IF you cut it loose and have been fooled and it leads to a pick, then you tip your hat to the opposing DC and get busy learning how you were fooled so We don't Get Fooled again... No NO! This is the NFL... windows are more often than not tight even for open targets. We know Baker can do this... we saw it last year and we saw it in Game 1 and we saw it last nite. It's just that we're seeing "something else" we've not seen before this season. I'm noticing Baker not seeing guys who are wide open, and His accuracy is nowhere near as consistent as last year. I posited elsewhere that you can't discount the supposed minor wrist injury has something to do with it. And at least in the Jets game, Williams had an entire week to figure out how to confuse a QB he knew better than any other one in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 As soon as Baker and Offensive Coaching staff understand that OBJ, Landry, Chubb and Hunt in a couple months are YAC maniacs and you don’t need to feed the ball to them 20-30 yards down the field. Things will look better. Right now Baker is attempting 20 tough throws a game probably 10-12 more than most QBs in the NFL food for thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said: As soon as Baker and Offensive Coaching staff understand that OBJ, Landry, Chubb and Hunt in a couple months are YAC maniacs and you don’t need to feed the ball to them 20-30 yards down the field. Things will look better. The 89 yard TD wasn’t YAC? A lot of the short throws were guarded very well by NY. Screens didn’t work much. There were certainly “short” throws last night. Edit: Baker missed open Chubb out of the backfield forcing it to OBJ and getting picked off as a result 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 hours ago, calfoxwc said: True, but I think Baker is playing different because he knows there are more limitations with his offensive line. Every qb that gets big pressure has it usually affect his play. I think Kitchens needs to call more short throws and Baker needs to not force the big long gains that he's used to. Depends on the defense they face, I suppose. Williams' defense is pretty good and stopping the rush....? Dan Orlovsky (who I respect) wouldn't stop talking about the lack of rhythm the Browns had on offense. He said we constantly hiked the ball with 1 second on play clock with Baker frantically clapping his hands for the ball. Also, we didn't appear very effective with the empty backfield. Baker simply wouldn't cut it loose. My biggest worries are Baker missing easy passes and Baker holding onto it. How about that one to Landry? It was a 2 yard route and Baker threw high. It went off Landry's hands and could've been a pick 6. It was an easy pass that would've generated an easy first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Baker, something that I noticed: The running back (or short receiver) can be wide open 5-7 yards downfield....but Baker wants the big type gainer....so he doesn't throw it to him. But by the time he concludes that the deeper pass isn't going to be there, the short receiver is covered. If he would just take what the D is giving him the team would be a lot better off. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 from what I'm reading..here's my 2 cents that might be worth a penny.. Meet the new guy that prefers larger chunk plays than dinking down the field.. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2019/5/10/18512991/what-to-expect-from-todd-monken-stat-overview or https://www.patreon.com/posts/how-will-todd-23961759 we just played 2 DC's that knew our dink offensive passing game..adding these new concepts to Freddie's offense may take more than 2 games.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said: Dan Orlovsky (who I respect) wouldn't stop talking about the lack of rhythm the Browns had on offense. He said we constantly hiked the ball with 1 second on play clock with Baker frantically clapping his hands for the ball. Also, we didn't appear very effective with the empty backfield. Baker simply wouldn't cut it loose. My biggest worries are Baker missing easy passes and Baker holding onto it. How about that one to Landry? It was a 2 yard route and Baker threw high. It went off Landry's hands and could've been a pick 6. It was an easy pass that would've generated an easy first. I noticed the consistent down to the wire snapping of the ball from us but sorta saw it as a feather in the cap sort of thing. Manipulating every second. There was at least one time the play clock hit zero and the refs didn’t see in time to flag it. But yeah, something seems amiss with Baker. And good observation in your other post about Baker favoring the long ball, but he just ain’t pulling the trigger fast enough. He’s missing high, and he doesn't seem to trust his off speed stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: The 89 yard TD wasn’t YAC? A lot of the short throws were guarded very well by NY. Screens didn’t work much. There were certainly “short” throws last night. Edit: Baker missed open Chubb out of the backfield forcing it to OBJ and getting picked off as a result And the OBJ TD play worked right? The other screen to Chubb was set up well but one of their DTs made an excellent play. We have a luxury of simplifying the route tree. When you have better athletes on the perimeter (for once) the five yard curl (easy throw) can net you a first down or a bigger play with some of the guys we have. Watch the DBs on OBJ he has had a huge cushion the last two weeks. Simple high percentage throws that don’t have to go between a second and third level of defenders. We can make it easier and still take a few shots down field. But this take shots down field and occasionally check down to the shorter route it’s not high percentage football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said: But this take shots down field and occasionally check down to the shorter route it’s not high percentage football I'm a little shocked we don't get that buttonhook to Landry 4-5 times a game. He gets a giant cushion and it's pretty simple to make that toss. Perhaps we really are just figuring it out. I'm also hoping we can run the ball better. We don't hardly try to run on 3rd and short, and last night was a textbook Nick Chubb game, but he never really got cooking save the one TD. Let's get it all working this Sunday and beat down a good team on national tv! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 One thing that stood out to me last night was Garrett's demeanor. I have not seen him play with such intensity to really run through people rather than just bring them down. I think he was trying to make an emphatic statement to Williams that he really could have done better last year without a muzzle on his playing options. I believe he made his point to all of us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: One thing that stood out to me last night was Garrett's demeanor. I have not seen him play with such intensity to really run through people rather than just bring them down. I think he was trying to make an emphatic statement to Williams that he really could have done better last year without a muzzle on his playing options. I believe he made his point to all of us. Here's what I like about Myles right now.....and I know the penalties are bad(baaaad myles, baaaad).....but I love him creaming these guys.....relentless......and here are the reasons why... 1) I was concerned he could be a lil soft, w/o killer instincts.... 2) I didnt know, for sure, that he REALLY wanted to be great and put in the effort.... 3) With his intellect, I had concerns how much he wnated or needed football.... And now I see he aint soft....he's giving 110% effort....he wants it baaaad......and he is striking fear into opposing QB's and teams in general....and the fouls just add to the fear factor.....Im all in 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mudfly said: Here's what I like about Myles right now.....and I know the penalties are bad(baaaad myles, baaaad).....but I love him creaming these guys.....relentless......and here are the reasons why... 1) I was concerned he could be a lil soft, w/o killer instincts.... 2) I didnt know, for sure, that he REALLY wanted to be great and put in the effort.... 3) With his intellect, I had concerns how much he wnated or needed football.... And now I see he aint soft....he's giving 110% effort....he wants it baaaad......and he is striking fear into opposing QB's and teams in general....and the fouls just add to the fear factor.....Im all in 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also questioned Myle's tenacity previously thinking he may be too laid back, but I LOVE the way he played last night. He showed he has some MEAN in his game!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 I think his MMA training unlocked a beast in him. Just have to keep it focused. A lot of the personal fouls are also very judgment based on the refs part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said: And the OBJ TD play worked right? The other screen to Chubb was set up well but one of their DTs made an excellent play. We have a luxury of simplifying the route tree. When you have better athletes on the perimeter (for once) the five yard curl (easy throw) can net you a first down Then why complain? ... There were plenty of short throws that went nowhere and screens. The offense was basically getting practice reps in as Jets were hopeless with third stringer QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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