Browns Bengals Gameday Thread

[mjp28]

Crap, just blew the BROWNS cover !  

[jrb12711]

This team is going to dysfunctional ass backwards itself to an 8-8 record haha.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Solid game. Nice to see Redwine fitting in the secondary. Offense is a fraction of what it could be. 

Go Cardinals! Go Raiders!!

[S_U_P_E_R_B_O_W_L]

First time I haven't broken out in a sweat watching the Browns in a long time.  I'm feeling pretty good about next week too.  Sure would be fun if game 16 meant something this year. 

[ATOM]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

David Njoku.  Good for a drop and bonehead play each game.  Which one was this? 

seals jones (sp?) and charles are the men I would trade njoku if i could

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

3 minutes ago, ATOM said:

seals jones (sp?) and charles are the men I would trade njoku if i could

Y’all realize the dude was injured for basically the whole season because the QB almost got him killed on a bad read....

[Ibleedbrown]

13 minutes ago, ATOM said:

seals jones (sp?) and charles are the men I would trade njoku if i could

Charles in charge? He’s my favorite.

[SdBacker80]

13 minutes ago, ATOM said:

seals jones (sp?) and charles are the men I would trade njoku if i could

Njoku could be the most overrated guy on the team.  We aren’t paying his next contract either.

Id deal him this offseason. 
 

LT, S, TE this offseason 

[Orion]

Ogbujobi & Richardson had good games!

The D shaky until they got down to the 1 or 2 yard line.     They did a great job protecting the goal line.    ( nice pick 6 by Ward )

Nick Chubb  !!  

Njoku, what's he got this year....2 catches and 2 turnovers?    Oh, that's right...they ruled it an INT.

Doug Dieken felt that the ref's struggled today.  LOL

[jiggins7919]

18 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Njoku could be the most overrated guy on the team.  We aren’t paying his next contract either.

Id deal him this offseason. 
 

LT, S, TE this offseason 

I'm good either way with Njoku. If it's a friendly contract, it could be worth it, but it's also tough to accurately judge someone when their wrist was broken most of the year. I know he kind of screwed us today with that pass he let the defender take from him...in the red zone. 

I'm watching our game highlights right now on YouTube and I'm so angry at Mayfield right now it's not even funny. He had an EASY, automatic first down to Hunt at the end, but inexplicably throws it to a blanketed Landry who doesn't make the crazy catch. Then we get the interception next play which was negated by a God-sent pass inference call. 

You can handle a deep throw that's off by a foot and gets picked occasionally. That's going to happen. But deciding to force it to Landry with the GAME ON THE LINE is moronic and completely unnecessary. It's about as dumbfounded and frustrated as I've ever been watching football, and the subsequent interception was exactly what Baker deserved. Yeah, we got bailed out by the right call, but still...why Baker? 

I know, I know...I'm being the douche nozzle who is complaining about a victory, but the thing is we weren't really the better team today. Did we even make them punt more than once? Sure didn't seem like it. We couldn't tackle, didn't have any urgency, and basically seemed like we almost lucked into a win. I know that's not totally fair, but there was something missing today, and it wasn't just Myles Garrett. 

Anyway, regardless of my little bitch attitude, I'm thrilled to get the W. I'm especially happy that the home crowd got to enjoy another victory, and that's important for a fanbase. Our OL wasn't awful today, and I thought Lamm actually battled. Our running game came alive in the second half, and it helps when the effing coach actually RUNS the rock. 

[bjh2130]

12 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Anyway, regardless of my little bitch attitude, I'm thrilled to get the W. I'm especially happy that the home crowd got to enjoy another victory, and that's important for a fanbase. Our OL wasn't awful today, and I thought Lamm actually battled. Our running game came alive in the second half, and it helps when the effing coach actually RUNS the rock. 

I had a discussion with my buddy on this at half time. Yeah it would have been great to run the ball more in the first half but it wasn't as egregious as people think. We had 8 rushes 16 passes. 33% of the time we ran the ball which I imagine is close to the league average (looked it up league average is 60% pass 40% run).  Not to mention the likely 3 or 4 rpo run reads that baker inexplicably pulled out and threw would have made it 11 or 12 rushes and 13 or 12 passes. We just didn't have the ball at all in the first half.

Edited December 9, 2019 by bjh2130
Look up average run pass split

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, gumby73 said:

InActives.... Sponsored but Censored by Gipper  .. TE's-P.Brown & D.Harris..RT-Chris Hubbard 🎅,S-E.Murray,WR-T.Taylor.DE-O.Vernon🤶 & newbie DT Jack Zimmer  Bengals notables--No* AJ Green/ nor former Buckeyes T- I.Prince or DE Sam Hubbard

I have never censored anything on here.  I am not a monitor. 

[Dutch Oven]

The 2019 Browns have set a milestone:

For the first time since they returned in 1999, they beat all their divisional opponents in one season. 

[Tour2ma]

12 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The 2019 Browns have set a milestone:

For the first time since they returned in 1999, they beat all their divisional opponents in one season. 

[mjp28]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The 2019 Browns have set a milestone:

For the first time since they returned in 1999, they beat all their divisional opponents in one season. 

And look how close they came to beating Pittsburgh twice!  Beat Cinci twice and one up on Baltimore.  On paper that's a good thing.

[Orion]

I'll say one thing....the Bengals had a good idea on that onside kick.  Try and rifle it off someone.  The rules regarding onside kicks pretty much nullifies the old ways of doing it. 

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

And look how close they came to beating Pittsburgh twice!  Beat Cinci twice and one up on Baltimore.  On paper that's a good thing.

If you had told me before the season that on December 8th the Browns would be 3-1 vs the AFC North I would have been thrilled.

Instead, we're 6-7.

[gumby73]

26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I have never censored anything on here.  I am not a monitor. 

Can we get your censored version of how stupid the inactive list is than? and I agree with ya, it is quite a dumb rule when ya consider what Hubbard & Vernon get paid.. 

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, bjh2130 said:

I had a discussion with my buddy on this at half time. Yeah it would have been great to run the ball more in the first half but it wasn't as egregious as people think. We had 8 rushes 16 passes. 33% of the time we ran the ball which I imagine is close to the league average (looked it up league average is 60% pass 40% run).  Not to mention the likely 3 or 4 rpo run reads that baker inexplicably pulled out and threw would have made it 11 or 12 rushes and 13 or 12 passes. We just didn't have the ball at all in the first half.

It's true, we really didn't have it much in the first half, and really, didn't have many possessions all game. The biggest problem in the first half was us basically passing every first down, including when we were 1st and goal at the 3. We did a fade type route to Njoku that clanged off his Braylon Edwards mittons, then we quickly went back to the run which Hunt easily took in. 

We didn't have the ball much because our defense couldn't get stops. It's truly bizarre when you go back and look at the numbers. Baker only had 24 attempts all game, which is nutso. Chubb had about 12 carries I think, and Hunt probably had 5 or less. It's a real shame because we actually moved the damn ball pretty well. Baker had one of the most important passes of the season on a 3rd and 19 directly after the Bengals took the lead on a TD and had ALL the momentum. He fired a ball to Landry who made a tough catch, and we'd then go on to score and retake the lead. It's funny, we had another 3rd and very long later in the game and Baker threw a very similar pass to OBJ, but like he's done all year, he couldn't pull the ball into his chest and make the play. How many times has OBJ had the ball hit his hands, only to have it fall incomplete? I'm not an idiot, it was a VERY difficult catch, and I'm pretty sure he took a solid shot to the beanbag, but damn man...you make the big bucks. 

Edit:  the Njoku fade pass was in the 2nd half. 

 

[The Gipper]

27 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Can we get your censored version of how stupid the inactive list is than? and I agree with ya, it is quite a dumb rule when ya consider what Hubbard & Vernon get paid.. 

I have no idea what you are saying about my "censored" version of things.   Sometimes, occasionally I do censor myself. like when I want to call people  little cunny holes..... but don't   (that does not apply to you......if I wanted to call you a little cunny hole I would!!)   But, yes, the inactive list is a dumb rule.   Dumb and dumber.

[tiamat63]

I wasn't about to make a new thread but I would highly encourage a good lot of you to watch this video.   He does some solid work.  Though I've disagreed with some of his conclusions in the past (Darnold, Peppers, a few others) this is the type of work I can really respect because of the intelligence put into it.  

 

Pay close attention to the 6:40 mark.  You'll notice the analysis and stats there that reinforce what a couple of us here have been saying since week 2.

 

 

 

 

[tiamat63]

@Tour2ma.    We talk about Bakers mental clock from the Gun vs Under Center.     The above video makes a good point highlighting Bakers punch step from his gun drop.    He doesn't have luxury comfort step from under center.   I would suspect that has a lot to do with him not having been sped up and therefore stepping up into the pocket by the time his back foot hits on his drop.

[Dutch Oven]

That was insanely educational and interesting. Without a doubt worth the time to watch. 

I know this was obvious before watching this, but Dorsey HAS to fix the OTackle situation here, and Kitchens has to do a better job keeping his offense "Baker Friendly", because while Mayfield is talented, he's still somewhat limited. 

[calfoxwc]

Brilliant, compare Baker, in his second year - to Tom Brady in his...whatever year. LOL

Some pretty good obvious points, though. Kitchens will learn. He hasn't been a hc as long as buttichek, either.

water is wet. Toursies and sissy Tiamsies get it YAY !!!

and our OT's are far more suspect.

also a point:

https://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2019/preseason/2019-offensive-line-rankings-1-10

3. New England Patriots

While Strausser sort of fell into a great place, Dante Scarnecchia has been creating a great offensive line room for years, regardless of which bodies are in them. It’s long been talked about that Scarnecchia is one of the best offensive line coaches in the league, but how do we quantify what that means for the team? Justis Mosqueda (@JuMosq) had that same question and did the leg work to find out. He created a metric that compared year-to-year offensive line performance to the NFL average in both team sacks given up and team tackles for loss given up. The information was pooled from every game beginning in 2004 through Week 14 of 2018 and to say that the results were conclusive would be an understatement.

(Thanks again to @JuMosq for use of the graphic)

Scarnecchia trounced the competition. His offensive lines prevented far more tackles for losses than any other coach’s units and his teams ranked second in sacks prevented compared to league average. Of course, the men on the field are the ones doing the actual work, but this spans between 2004 – 2013 and 2016 – present (Scarnecchia briefly retired). Dante will have his work cut out for him this year as the ever-important left tackle position is still up in the air.

Trent Brown went ahead and made himself some money by signing with the Oakland Raiders this offseason, which left a hole in the line. Last year’s first-round pick Isaiah Wynn still has an uphill battle to return from last year’s torn Achilles but is currently slated to take over the role. If Wynn can’t go, then this year’s third-round pick Yodny Cajuste will have to hurry up and develop into an NFL quality tackle. It’s time once again for Scarnecchia to flex his coaching muscles.

*****************************

   Gosh. Better offensive line, like a lot of US have been saying.

TE chippies - good point. Also good point - crossing patterns. Gronk use to do it a lot.

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

He hasn't been a hc as long as buttichek, either.

water is wet. Toursies and sissy Tiamsies get it YAY !!!

Could you imagine how fast cal would soil himself if "Toursies" or "Tiamsies" met him in person? 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

That was insanely educational and interesting. Without a doubt worth the time to watch. 

I know this was obvious before watching this, but Dorsey HAS to fix the OTackle situation here, and Kitchens has to do a better job keeping his offense "Baker Friendly", because while Mayfield is talented, he's still somewhat limited. 

That's the issue with having the offense "Baker friendly"... it cuts down a great deal on what we can do pushing vertically from the gun and not off play action.   Granted, you can still have an effective offense without it - look at the Rams who use play action as much as anybody.   But they can be schemed against with the right coaches and time.

 

57 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Brilliant, compare Baker, in his second year - to Tom Brady in his...whatever year. LOL

Some pretty good obvious points, though. Kitchens will learn. He hasn't been a hc as long as buttichek, either.

water is wet. Toursies and sissy Tiamsies get it YAY !!!

and our OT's are far more suspect.

also a point:

https://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2019/preseason/2019-offensive-line-rankings-1-10

3. New England Patriots

While Strausser sort of fell into a great place, Dante Scarnecchia has been creating a great offensive line room for years, regardless of which bodies are in them. It’s long been talked about that Scarnecchia is one of the best offensive line coaches in the league, but how do we quantify what that means for the team? Justis Mosqueda (@JuMosq) had that same question and did the leg work to find out. He created a metric that compared year-to-year offensive line performance to the NFL average in both team sacks given up and team tackles for loss given up. The information was pooled from every game beginning in 2004 through Week 14 of 2018 and to say that the results were conclusive would be an understatement.

(Thanks again to @JuMosq for use of the graphic)

Scarnecchia trounced the competition. His offensive lines prevented far more tackles for losses than any other coach’s units and his teams ranked second in sacks prevented compared to league average. Of course, the men on the field are the ones doing the actual work, but this spans between 2004 – 2013 and 2016 – present (Scarnecchia briefly retired). Dante will have his work cut out for him this year as the ever-important left tackle position is still up in the air.

Trent Brown went ahead and made himself some money by signing with the Oakland Raiders this offseason, which left a hole in the line. Last year’s first-round pick Isaiah Wynn still has an uphill battle to return from last year’s torn Achilles but is currently slated to take over the role. If Wynn can’t go, then this year’s third-round pick Yodny Cajuste will have to hurry up and develop into an NFL quality tackle. It’s time once again for Scarnecchia to flex his coaching muscles.

*****************************

   Gosh. Better offensive line, like a lot of US have been saying.

TE chippies - good point. Also good point - crossing patterns. Gronk use to do it a lot.

The comparison of Baker to Brady wasn't in accomplishment or ability, but in highlighting how they prefer to set in the pocket.  Footwork and depth.   Just simple mechanical comparison.      Judging by your comment that flew over your head.    

Also, cute article that is 1st - from the pre-season and 2nd - is a unit ranking... something I rather despise.      Fact is, NE's tackle situation isn't much, if at all, better than ours.    They just have coaches and a QB who can help to minimize that problem.  Which is why they can get away with some of the things in which they do. 

[calfoxwc]

The comparison of Baker to Brady wasn't in accomplishment or ability, but in highlighting how they prefer to set in the pocket.  Footwork and depth.   Just simple mechanical comparison.      Judging by your comment that flew over your head.    Tiamsies

*************************************************

    I don't care. A lot of qb's had different stances. Remember how Kosar took a snap? where his feet were? That isn't the point. The point YOU are missing, is that Tom Brady is 6'4", which I suppose could make a bit of difference. It's a more minor point, I think. The chipping with TE's is a very good point.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/nfl/fantasy-football-2019-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-and-impact-fantasy-stars

Patriots offensive line was rated #5.

5. New England Patriots. The Patriots easily could have cracked the top three on this list had they kept Trent Brown, who was excellent at left tackle last year. Isaiah Wynn is set to take over for him, but he was limited in camp. So, that hurts the potential of this line, as they are thin at tackle. The rest of the line, highlighted by the elite guard tandem of Joe Thuney and Shaq Mason, is terrific and allowed Tom Brady to be sacked just 21 times last year (tied for second-fewest in a 16-game season in the last 10 years). Brady should benefit from this protection, while Sony Michel and Damien Harris look to take advantage of the 4.4 yards per carry average running backs enjoyed behind the unit last year.

https://www.dynastynerds.com/ranking-the-top-ten-offensive-lines-2019/

5. Patriots

The defending Super Bowl champs rank 6^th in this exercise. Shaq Mason ended 2018 as the number 1 graded RG. Both Joe Thuney (LG) and David Andrews(C) were top 7 at their positions. The only question mark is at LT, where Isaiah Wynn is slated to start. Wynn, the former first round pick, missed all 2018 with a torn Achilles. Sony Michel is locked in as the early down back, with James White taking on third down/passing duties. The patriots further muddled the RB depth chart by selecting Damien Harris in the third round. This may signify they are concerned about Michel longterm. The back I am buying here is White, who’s role remains unchanged.

 

MSN has the Patriots at number 2

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2019-offensive-line-rankings/ar-AAFkbel

2. New England Patriots

© File Photo File photo

The Patriots offensive line sported superior marks in almost every measurable category last season. They are a critical success factor that doesn't get enough credit. And that's typically losing great players almost annually. This time RT Trenton Brown left to sign a 4-year, $66 million deal in Oakland as the most coveted free-agent lineman. The Pats added LT Yodny Cajuste (3.37) in the draft. OL coach Dante Scarnecchia is a big part of the Pats winning ways. There will be reshuffling as there is almost every year but no reason to expect less from this always competent unit.

[tiamat63]

Fantastic, all your articles basically talk about the relative weakness that is the Patriots tackle situation. As they highlight the offense interior as their strength.

Congrats, you've made my point.  Our respective teams have a very similar problem.  Only our personnel magnifies that problem just a little more.

[Orion]

Our offensive line is Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, and 3 other guys.  Week to week, us sitting on our couches aren't even sure who the 3 other guys will be.  One week a guy is a starter, the next he's benched and some 'other' guy plays, and then the next week the first guy is back in.  No matter what the 'coach speak' of the week is, it's obvious that they wish they had better players to stick at LT, RT & RG.  We do not have a cohesive OL.   As has been said, a great many of us were concerned about those 3 positions all offseason long.  Contrary to a past, not to be named, board member....you cannot just take any ol' five fat-asses and stick them on the OL.  They have to meet a minimum talent standard

[bjh2130]

6 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I wasn't about to make a new thread but I would highly encourage a good lot of you to watch this video.   He does some solid work.  Though I've disagreed with some of his conclusions in the past (Darnold, Peppers, a few others) this is the type of work I can really respect because of the intelligence put into it.  

 

Pay close attention to the 6:40 mark.  You'll notice the analysis and stats there that reinforce what a couple of us here have been saying since week 2.

 

 

 

 

This was a great video. I would like to add the beginning of the season looked a lot like todd monken's offense at tampa bay with all the deep route tree concepts. I know freddie was calling the plays but it looked nothing like the offense he ran last year. I think monken was installing the gameplan during the week so Freddie could be "head coach" during practices then Freddie was calling plays on gameday. These last 5 weeks at 4-1 have looked like Freddie's offense from last year so I wonder if he started taking a more active role in designing the plays and gameplan.

They would be better served to cut ties with monken and hire a coordinator in offseason who better fits with Freddie scheme and bakers skill set and let that oc install the gameplan and call the plays next year.