The GOAT is Leaving New England... And Going to Tampa

[The Gipper]

28 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Plus no more hearing "Got Six?"  from steeler fans.

"GOT  13"   from Northeast Ohio  football fans? 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You have to put teams in their place.

Isn't that what Gorka did?

 

Gip, you harp on "recency bias" in others. Aren't you practicing "relativity bias"? Totally appropriate for eras... not so much for "all-time".

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, Gorka said:

I bet there wasn't a player on that Steeler team over 275 lbs.

I used to play a PC game named NFL Head Coach. During breaks when it was loading a different segment of the game it used images including quotes from the great HCs of the past.

One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...

"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Isn't that what Gorka did?

No, it isn't.  He went beyond that by far. 

 

Gip, you harp on "recency bias" in others. Aren't you practicing "relativity bias"? Totally appropriate for eras... not so much for "all-time".

So,  you want to have your cake and eat it too?

[Gorka]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I used to play a PC game named NFL Head Coach. During breaks when it was loading a different segment of the game it used images including quotes from the great HCs of the past.

One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...

"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."

Good one from Noll...he himself a 220lb starting guard for the Browns.

[Gorka]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Again, just the recency bias.   You have to put teams in their place.

 

Where is the disconnect here? I just did put them in their place.  In their era these teams were the best, the same goes for individual star players.

As the decades pass, the players get bigger, faster, and stronger... and more talented.

HOF'er Gene Hickerson, a 248lb guard was hellava player...and I am putting him in his place when I say he would get tossed around like a ragdoll today.

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Gorka said:

Where is the disconnect here? I just did put them in their place.  In their era these teams were the best, the same goes for individual star players.

As the decades pass, the players get bigger, faster, and stronger... and more talented.

HOF'er Gene Hickerson, a 248lb guard was hellava player...and I am putting him in his place when I say he would get tossed around like a ragdoll today.

The disconnect is this:  what you don't get is that if he played today, Gene Hickerson would receive the same training, nutrition, etc. that today's players do.  He probably WOULD have weighed 300 LBs. 

Again, the only players that have gotten bigger  are OL and DL.    (and we do not really know if in fact they are faster and stronger, as those things were not really measured in the old days.)

But my issue with you is re: Jim Brown.    

Jim Brown was bigger, faster, and stronger than the RBs that ARE playing TODAY.   He would have been, likely, by far the best runner in the game today. 

[Gorka]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

"GOT  13?"   from Northeast Ohio  football fans? 

LOL.  The only problem is that no one cares.

...btw you were supposed to put a question mark after GOT 23.

Now "Got 16?"  I have a much higher regard for because at least the Packers won NFL Championships.

[The Gipper]

Just now, Gorka said:

LOL.  The only problem is that no one cares.

...btw you were supposed to put a question mark after GOT 23.

Now "Got 16?"  I have a much higher regard for because at least the Packers won NFL Championships.

OK, I will clarify it for you:    Teams from the Greater Cleveland area, Northeast Ohio have won 13 pro football championships. 

Maybe, apparently you did not comprehend that.  But that is what I was talking about. 

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

So,  you want to have your cake and eat it too?

I do like cake, but it won't help me decode this cryptic reply to a straightforward question...

 

Care to try again, Louie?

[Tour2ma]

Wait... now Otto won 13 championships?

Was there even Pop Warner in the 30's?

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I do like cake, but it won't help me decode this cryptic reply to a straightforward question...

 

Care to try again, Louie?

That something would go over your head is not unsurprising. The point is that if I say something is black, you will say it is white, but if I say it is white, you will say it is black.   So, instead of having your cake and eating it too, or eating your cake and having it too,  (which is how they caught the Unabomber), why don't you just eat me, Alice. 

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Wait... now Otto won 13 championships?

Was there even Pop Warner in the 30's?

Is English your third or 4th language?   What was it about this that you failed to comprehend:

Teams from the Greater Cleveland area, Northeast Ohio have won 13 pro football championships. 

Let me know what language you want that translated to, and I will try to oblige. 

For starters, here is the French:

Des équipes du nord-est de l'Ohio ont remporté treize championnats de football professionnel

[Tour2ma]

17 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

That something would go over your head is not unsurprising. The point is that if I say something is black, you will say it is white, but if I say it is white, you will say it is black.   So, instead of having your cake and eating it too, or eating your cake and having it too,  (which is how they caught the Unabomber), why don't you just eat me, Alice. 

Oh well.... we had a good 24 hours there...

So now back to the wars..

 

What an ass... completely incapable of self-examination...

 

And as I've said before, you would never talk that way to my face.

 

 

[Gorka]

14 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

The disconnect is this:  what you don't get is that if he played today, Gene Hickerson would receive the same training, nutrition, etc. that today's players do.  He probably WOULD have weighed 300 LBs. 

 

Lol...which at 300lbs. would still make him the smallest guard in the NFL.

But to your point...humbug. Nutrition, training, supplements, all that shit is only there to help fine tune todays athlete who already possess the God given size, speed, and talent far superior to the old timers.  Lebron James didn't happen because of nutrition but because of genetics. He probably grew up eating Swensons fast food burgers down there in Akron. Its genetics man.

You're not gonna tell me that nutrition would have turned Hickerson into the guy on the right.

Hall of Famer Wilbur “Pete” Henry, aka “Fats,” was one of the NFL’s largest and most dominant linemen in the 1920s at 5 feet 11 inches and 245 pounds, but would be dwarfed by present-day players such as 6 foot 5 inch, 330-pound Oakland guard Kelechi Osemele. (Pro Football Hall of Fame) (AP Photo/Paul Spinelli)

 

[Gorka]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

OK, I will clarify it for you:    Teams from the Greater Cleveland area, Northeast Ohio have won 13 pro football championships. 

Maybe, apparently you did not comprehend that.  But that is what I was talking about. 

Um yes I comprehended that, ...what wasn't comprehended (by you) was that no one cares.

You will never comprehend why no one cares will you? LOL

[Tour2ma]

1 minute ago, Gorka said:

Um yes I comprehended that, ...what wasn't comprehended was that no one cares.

Or that they seized the opportunity to ridicule...

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Oh well.... we had a good 24 hours there...

So now back to the wars..

 

What an ass... completely incapable of self-examination...

 

And as I've said before, you would never talk that way to my face.

 

 

Neither would you to mine. And you are probably right. I would want to talk football, just like I do here.  But all I get in response is passive-aggressive condescension.

So, maybe you can  do some self examination and work on THAT.

[The Gipper]

25 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Lol...which at 300lbs. would still make him the smallest guard in the NFL.

But to your point...humbug. Nutrition, training, supplements, all that shit is only there to help fine tune todays athlete who already possess the God given size, speed, and talent far superior to the old timers.  Lebron James didn't happen because of nutrition but because of genetics. He probably grew up eating Swensons fast food burgers down there in Akron. Its genetics man.

You're not gonna tell me that nutrition would have turned Hickerson into the guy on the right.

Hall of Famer Wilbur “Pete” Henry, aka “Fats,” was one of the NFL’s largest and most dominant linemen in the 1920s at 5 feet 11 inches and 245 pounds, but would be dwarfed by present-day players such as 6 foot 5 inch, 330-pound Oakland guard Kelechi Osemele. (Pro Football Hall of Fame) (AP Photo/Paul Spinelli)

 

So?  You are saying it is pure  evolutionary genetics?   Or do you think it is eugenics....which is something I think you probably would be in favor of. 

[Dutch Oven]

In the history of RBs, Kareem Hunt has no equals. Pay the man. 

[The Gipper]

25 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Um yes I comprehended that, ...what wasn't comprehended (by you) was that no one cares.

You will never comprehend why no one cares will you? LOL

I comprehend it fully.....It is called intellectual laziness and narcissism.  You only care about what may have affected you.   Or in another word:  PittsburghSteelerese.  "Nothing ever happened before I was conscious enough to remember it"    

It does not change the facts, or the truth....whether you care about it or not.   Like I said to you before in some of this:   To some here, Bernie Kosar and Brian Sipe,  and those titles won by the Steelers back in the  70s are as much ancient history as  maybe Otto Graham, or Fritz Pollard are to the rest of us.   Don't mean they didn't exist.

And I don't know if have been around here long enough to recall this mantra I had repeated often:  " The ONLY Championships that matter are the last one and the next one.   The rest are all just history, from the 1920 Akron Pros, to the  2018 New England Patriots.  No difference at all between them.  They are just now entries in a history tome.  

So, I mean, my point is:  I care as much about the one (1920) as I do the other  (2018).  That one happened during my particular conscious existence is neither here nor there in the scheme of things.  

[The Gipper]

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Or that they seized the opportunity to ridicule...

You show your colors.....You is they. It is what you do. 

[Gorka]

36 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Or that they seized the opportunity to ridicule...

It's Super Bowl envy. "Oh yeah,  but we won 4 AAFC shit Titles plus 4 NFL Titles, plus some other football related shit, so there!" 

I just appreciate the fact that such rubbish is not the mindset of normal Browns fans.

[The Gipper]

5 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

In the history of RBs, Kareem Hunt has no equals. Pay the man. 

How much are they paying him?  I mean, he has had only 8 games with the team.  They may think it premature to give him a big dollar contract.  Maybe they are in wait and see mode on doing that. 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, The Gipper said:

How much are they paying him?  I mean, he has had only 8 games with the team.  They may think it premature to give him a big dollar contract.  Maybe they are in wait and see mode on doing that. 

No money amount is too much for Kareem Hunt. 

He is Jesus Christ of RBs, without the hand injuries. If the football field was made of water, Kareem Hunt could part it. Or walk on it. 

Payeth the man. 

[The Gipper]

14 minutes ago, Gorka said:

It's Super Bowl envy. "Oh yeah,  but we won 4 AAFC shit Titles plus 4 NFL Titles, plus some other football related shit, so there!" 

I just appreciate the fact that such rubbish is not the mindset of todays Browns fan.

Except, as you can tell what I have said,  winning a Super Bowl to me is nothing more, nothing less than having won a pre-SB era title.

I do want my team to win a championship....and don't care what they call it.  Unlike you probably, I HAVE seen the Browns win a Championship.  To me that is every bit as valuable, having won it in 1964 than if they won it in 1966-67-68 ..whatever when they started calling championship Super Bowls.  

I mean, the game today is vastly, vastly different today than when the first Super Bowls were played. Lots of new teams (and I am not talking about the AFL teams that existed at the time.  I mean teams like the Bengals, the Dolphins, The Buc, Jags, Falcons, Panthers, Ravens, Texans, Saints, Seahawks... all new since the onset of "The Super Bowl Era".  

If you don't care about the titles that have been won....why should you care any at all about any titles that may be won in the future.  That is the way I see it.  

I mean, I care that America/the United States  won the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War....the Civil War  (yes..it was "America" that won the Civil War..not the other side of that war),  the Spanish-American War;  World War I, and WWII. All before I was born.   And I care that the Browns...and other NEOhio teams won what they did all before I was conscious to remember them. 

I mean, to be honest with you...America's track record at winning wars since WWII may be as bad as the Browns track record of winning championships after 1964.  Korea....pretty much a stalemate.  Vietnam....can anyone argue that we did not lose that war?  First Gulf War?  OK, we probably go that one....but it led up to the Afghanistan/Iraq Wars, War on Terror.  Can you claim truthfully that those are being "won".  

[Gorka]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

One fav of mine was Chuck Nolls'...

"Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 275-pound Tackles. They'll make me seem wise."

Chuck did start a nutrition program which included certain "supplements" if you know what I mean.

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, Gorka said:

Chuck did start a nutrition program which included certain "supplements" if you know what I mean.

There you go!

[D Bone]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You staked that claim.

Defend it. 

Don't have to. My opinion is Tom is the greatest. The end. 

[Nero]

I can see how Gipper became successful in a law related career. Always trying to find excuses and arguments beyond a reasonable point, throwing water and mudding the field for the fight if needed... Because that is what it feels like, not a discussion, a fight. A war of constant siege. He will dedicate hours to counter attack the most miserable point and will never concede that he was wrong, but he wants you to do that with him.

It must be tiring always being right. 

I don't have the time.  

In my opinion, Tom Brady is the greatest of all time.