Browns players taking a knee

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

well, I am a veteran, do you know how many servicemen and women are black? Many were friends of mine back then. I remember so many stories. Inner city, suburbs. discrimination...

    I wish the activists who diss our country would respect our country, be concerned about our country, as I am about the black community. That's all.I want to talk football here.

I knew the first part. Thank you. Do you stay in touch? What do they have to say regarding current events?

I wish the same man. The current path requires a reroute or 2 to get there though. It takes work and understanding to get there. We ain’t there yet. 

[Gorka]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Let the butthurt wash over you, Sebastian. 

Just shut the fuck up and resume getting on your knees there Dutch boy.

[The Gipper]

 As I said before I got on my knees in church. I guess I disrespected God for doing so. 

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

I agree, the Tulsa race massacre is a part of American history that isn't publicized enough!

 

And the tearing down statues is the same -- Everyone who fought "On The Side Of The South" was a terrorist fighting against America, period dot end of story.  Confederates remain the most coddled bunch of losers in the history of the world.  If police actually wanted to "fight for justice," they'd throw in prison and beat everyone flying or otherwise supporting the flag that represents nothing more than insurrection and the execution of both federal law enforcement and armed forces - you know, actual threats, unlike antifa.  It does also represent states rights -- the right of people within a state to enslave others.  The event kicking off the civil war was Northern sheriffs refusing to enforce the "rights" of slaveholders in Southern states to own black people.

I started watching Watchmen on HBO this evening. I had no clue at all that it started out with the Tulsa massacre. So it was highly coincidental or ironic when I saw that. 

[Gorka]

6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

That’s the thing about respect, it’s a 2 way street. There’s a rather large segment of our population who aren’t feeling it, and they’re making it known. I can’t claim l know what it’s like to be black in America. You can’t either. But l can listen. I can try to comprehend, and at the end of the day l want to bring us all into the fold.

So what can WE do to enable people of color to feel the same way about America that we do? That is the question. That is the goal. 

Protests, riots, kneeling at a football game? Those aren’t solutions. Those are just a bright blinking SOS. We’re mentally moving past that now into solution phase, and l’m happy to hear you speaking about solutions too. 

Solutions start with understanding the mindset of the opposition, or at least an attempt to do so. Where are they coming from? Why do they feel this way? What do they hope to accomplish? 

The mindset of the opposition is chaos. They seek no resolution. To them America is founded in sin and cannot be fixed.

Unlike the 60's, todays  protests have no goals. What do they want? They want power, and to gain power they must have victims.
George Floyd validates their claims of racism. Cries of systemic racism...all it does is expand their territory of entitlement. "We want more, society is responsible for us" That is corruption.
Blacks have never been less oppressed then they are now. They remain at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder and are not happy about it. Instead of carrying their own weight and taking responsibility, they look at the police. -Selby Steele 1960's Civil Rights activist.

Embroil yourself in that shit. Hopefully at the end you’ll see it’s not “they”, but rather a part of “us”. Then we can move forward.

 

What can we do? You're out of your fucking mind. The only thing left is kneeling while apologizing for being white... and of course reparations.

Ask yourself what hasn't been done . Every social program imaginable to help blacks has been put into place.  It's not up to us now, its up to them. Name all the successful blacks you know that are not from the US. Why is it that both brown and black people who have never stepped on American soil striving to emigrate here feel the same way about America as we do, yet a certain segment including those rioting looting thugs born here don't?  Surely those foreign citizens of color got the message by now that America is racist and a place where blacks are oppressed and should stay away.

Secondly you're encompassing an entire community. Not all blacks are buyin the shit you're trying to sell and their numbers are growing.  Many blacks do appreciate this country. So how is it that a single parent ghetto raised Ben Carson become a doctor?  Did you ever hear of people like  Selby Steele, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell,  Allen West, Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Alan Keys...etc etc etc ect, you know, those you would call Uncle Toms. Study up on what they have to say about the bullshit the members of their own race and white guilt libs are spewing  Your ignorance is vast.

[jbluhm86]

I hope all of you football board regs are enjoying the HBO free preview weekend of the Pol board.

[Dutch Oven]

7 hours ago, Gorka said:

Just shut the fuck up and resume getting on your knees there Dutch boy.

I can almost taste your delicious tears, Sebastian. 

Make sure to gargle some Clorox before you head out to Tulsa for your White Power... er... Trump Rally! 

[Unsympathetic]

6 hours ago, Gorka said:

Ask yourself what hasn't been done

Bailouts for normal people

Bankers/private originators doing federal prison time for fraud - including all loan officers responsible for fraud in the inducement for pushing "subprimes" in the leadup to 07

Removal [and resultant bankruptcy/breakup] of the Fed trillion+ dollars per day of loans for bad paper to the prime brokers

Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall

End to the inability to import drugs from foreign countries so big pharma can massively markup prices to US patients

Medicare4All - this is better described as "everyone receives health care" [rather than the disingenuous "access to care" - i similarly have access to the nearby ferrari dealership].  This not only covers the dozens of millions without care and with low-coverage-hi-deductible plans, it eliminates medical bankruptcies which is not a thing in the rest of the developed world.

Initiation of federal loans for coops run by workers - for all companies outsourced over the last 20 years or going to be outsourced moving forward.  You may have heard of one member-owned coop.. REI, my favorite store. [yes, there's many details about how coops work.. yes, I'm familiar with all of them]

Note that none of these are "black" things.  They are, however, items that would substantively improve the life of lower- and middle- class people... including the poor whites, who you've clearly forgotten about in your eagerness to make the lives of black people worse.

End to the "War on Drugs" - because it was started by Nixon explicitly targeted at black people.

The US has 5x as many poor whites as poor blacks.  Trigger warning: That link is to an Excel table from the US census - you know, facts! 

[lodilobo]

This is a complicated topic to weigh in on. I don't want to appear to be racist, but I consider myself to be patriotic, having grownup in the '60's, saying the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school, then vacationing in South east Asia for 12 months after high school...courtesy of Uncle Sam. Every 4th of July, at 1 p.m. I have a tradition of cranking up the volume on the Jimi Hendrix version of the National Anthem, probably to the dismay of my neighbors.  I respect all veterans for their service, and will never kneel during the National Anthem. I'm not a member of the KKK, but I'm also not one to applaud looters who use a cause like BLM as an excuse to get a new big screen tv, or destroy communities. Baker Mayfield has every right to kneel during the National Anthem...as does Colin Kapernick, or anyone else, white or black. I won't be forced to participate, though, by being told I'm unaware of the message being sent. The message to me is loud and clear. I translate it as being...." I hate your country....the one your ancestors died defending.....the one that rolls out the red carpet for immigrants, so they can achieve goals beyond their dreams." I've known many black people throughout my life. Some I consider my brothers, and would do anything for. Others....not so much. Exactly like the relationships I've had with white people...some good...some bad. But...the numerous occurrences of unarmed black men being killed by these stupid ass cops, who think they are Dirty Harry, makes me want to puke. If the local government officials are too dumb to hire responsible people as public servants, to PROTECT our citizens, then changes are needed. We all talk about the racial tension with the riots in the '60's. It was bad, but not like today. Things have not improved over the years. They're much worse now than ever. 

[The Gipper]

 translate it as being...." I hate your country....the one your ancestors died defending.....the one that rolls out the red carpet for immigrants, so they can achieve goals beyond their dreams." I've known many black people throughout my life. Some I consider my brothers, and would do anything for. Others....not so much. Exactly like the relationships I've had with white people...some good...some bad. But...the numerous occurrences of unarmed black men being killed by these stupid ass cops, who think they are Dirty Harry, makes me want to puke. If the local government officials are too dumb to hire responsible people as public servants, to PROTECT our citizens, then changes are needed. We all talk about the racial tension with the riots in the '60's. It was bad, but not like today. Things have not improved over the years. They're much worse now than ever. 

How is it that in the same paragraph so badly interpret the gesture...and then turn around actually seem to comprehend it and defend the right of people to do it?  

I come back again to when I have to kneel in church....you are showing reverence and respect...and at the same time, in some instances, you are confessing you own faults and your own inadequacies, and asking that you become a better, more enlightened purpose....which seems to me what is happening here.  

Does it really take one being raised a Catholic  to understand that this is what the act of kneeling  has been about?  (I don't know...I don't recall ever being asked to kneel at my wife's Lutheran church the times I went there...including being married there.   We may have been asked to stand, but not to kneel. 

[Ibleedbrown]

7 hours ago, Gorka said:

What can we do? You're out of your fucking mind. The only thing left is kneeling while apologizing for being white... and of course reparations.

Ask yourself what hasn't been done . Every social program imaginable to help blacks has been put into place.  It's not up to us now, its up to them. Name all the successful blacks you know that are not from the US. Why is it that both brown and black people who have never stepped on American soil striving to emigrate here feel the same way about America as we do, yet a certain segment including those rioting looting thugs born here don't?  Surely those foreign citizens of color got the message by now that America is racist and a place where blacks are oppressed and should stay away.

Secondly you're encompassing an entire community. Not all blacks are buyin the shit you're trying to sell and their numbers are growing.  Many blacks do appreciate this country. So how is it that a single parent ghetto raised Ben Carson become a doctor?  Did you ever hear of people like  Selby Steele, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell,  Allen West, Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, Alan Keys...etc etc etc ect, you know, those you would call Uncle Toms. Study up on what they have to say about the bullshit the members of their own race and white guilt libs are spewing  Your ignorance is vast.

Sure, what can we do? The boots on the ground rank and file. Some of your points are why l phrased it that way. Social programs, success stories of black individuals. Yet there’s still a problem. 

But what is the solution? 

I don’t see this as something the govt can solve, but they’re gonna try. Statues don’t get taken down for free you know. I see it as a ground floor and up way of thinking to get moving in the right direction. 

And your tone is a real downer. Is there no hope? Might as well queue the race war?

I’m siding with the Puerto Ricans. West Side Story was far too influential on me. Now where do l find a zip gun?

[lodilobo]

6 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 translate it as being...." I hate your country....the one your ancestors died defending.....the one that rolls out the red carpet for immigrants, so they can achieve goals beyond their dreams." I've known many black people throughout my life. Some I consider my brothers, and would do anything for. Others....not so much. Exactly like the relationships I've had with white people...some good...some bad. But...the numerous occurrences of unarmed black men being killed by these stupid ass cops, who think they are Dirty Harry, makes me want to puke. If the local government officials are too dumb to hire responsible people as public servants, to PROTECT our citizens, then changes are needed. We all talk about the racial tension with the riots in the '60's. It was bad, but not like today. Things have not improved over the years. They're much worse now than ever. 

How is it that in the same paragraph so badly interpret the gesture...and then turn around actually seem to comprehend it and defend the right of people to do it?  

I come back again to when I have to kneel in church....you are showing reverence and respect...and at the same time, in some instances, you are confessing you own faults and your own inadequacies, and asking that you become a better, more enlightened purpose....which seems to me what is happening here.  

Does it really take one being raised a Catholic  to understand that this is what the act of kneeling  has been about?  (I don't know...I don't recall ever being asked to kneel at my wife's Lutheran church the times I went there...including being married there.   We may have been asked to stand, but not to kneel. 

I explained it this way....that is MY interpretation. Just because it is not yours, doesn't make it a bad interpretation. I thought you were a lawyer...not a psychologist. While I acknowledge that I could possibly have faults, if I did I would never admit or apologize for them. Keep in mind....this is opinion, so not necessarily how you might see things.

[Unsympathetic]

Commentary - Essential reading for those who care about such things.

[Ibleedbrown]

12 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

FYI, in case it isn't clear, after being a Trump fan to troll non Trump fans, then being a non Trump fan to troll Trump fans, then being a Trump fan to troll non Trump fans, then being a non Trump fan to troll Trump fans, DieHard has now decided to be a Trump fan again to troll non Trump fans. 

That’s kinda fun. I don’t really fault anyone for misrepresenting themselves online. I’m definitely taller and more handsome online. 

[Ibleedbrown]

2 hours ago, lodilobo said:

This is a complicated topic to weigh in on. I don't want to appear to be racist, but I consider myself to be patriotic, having grownup in the '60's, saying the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school, then vacationing in South east Asia for 12 months after high school...courtesy of Uncle Sam. Every 4th of July, at 1 p.m. I have a tradition of cranking up the volume on the Jimi Hendrix version of the National Anthem, probably to the dismay of my neighbors.  I respect all veterans for their service, and will never kneel during the National Anthem. I'm not a member of the KKK, but I'm also not one to applaud looters who use a cause like BLM as an excuse to get a new big screen tv, or destroy communities. Baker Mayfield has every right to kneel during the National Anthem...as does Colin Kapernick, or anyone else, white or black. I won't be forced to participate, though, by being told I'm unaware of the message being sent. The message to me is loud and clear. I translate it as being...." I hate your country....the one your ancestors died defending.....the one that rolls out the red carpet for immigrants, so they can achieve goals beyond their dreams." I've known many black people throughout my life. Some I consider my brothers, and would do anything for. Others....not so much. Exactly like the relationships I've had with white people...some good...some bad. But...the numerous occurrences of unarmed black men being killed by these stupid ass cops, who think they are Dirty Harry, makes me want to puke. If the local government officials are too dumb to hire responsible people as public servants, to PROTECT our citizens, then changes are needed. We all talk about the racial tension with the riots in the '60's. It was bad, but not like today. Things have not improved over the years. They're much worse now than ever. 

I thought this was a good take and appreciate it. And thank you for your vacation time.

It is complicated. I take for granted that we as a people like to split ourselves into little subcultures based on religion, race, ethnicity, what side of town we grew up in, what music we like, etc. 

We like to be different from one another. And that’s cool imo. Makes life more interesting. I think problems arise when we get so complacent in our own little subculture that we have a hard time wrapping our minds around the plights of the other subcultures around us. That’s where we’re at now.

And the Hendrix version is THE version. Hell yeah. 

 

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, lodilobo said:

I explained it this way....that is MY interpretation. Just because it is not yours, doesn't make it a bad interpretation. I thought you were a lawyer...not a psychologist. While I acknowledge that I could possibly have faults, if I did I would never admit or apologize for them. Keep in mind....this is opinion, so not necessarily how you might see things.

It seems FAR too many people on this planet either forgot, were never taught, or simply don't care about this fact. So many people screaming and very few listening all while wanting their opinions to come out of your mouth.

You entered with 2 of the best posts on the entire thread.................. IN MY OPINION 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, lodilobo said:

I explained it this way....that is MY interpretation. Just because it is not yours, doesn't make it a bad interpretation. I thought you were a lawyer...not a psychologist.

Trust me,  a large portion of what lawyers do is psychology. 

While I acknowledge that I could possibly have faults, if I did I would never admit or apologize for them. Keep in mind....this is opinion, so not necessarily how you might see things.

I am not asking you to apologize for your faults  (not to me anyway...see my above comment about who you may be addressing while kneeling).  But, as a lawyer/judge...it is part of my job to identify contradictions in person's comments/statements.  So...it is not a matter of how I see things...it is that you express wide differences and contradictions in how say YOU see things yourself.   

 

[D Bone]

24 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

So...it is not a matter of how I see things...it is that you express wide differences and contradictions in how say YOU see things yourself.   

What is so hard to understand??

A person can be both against and for abortion (I am) 

A person can be both for tight boarder security and for legal immigration (I am)

A person can be both for the police and against the bad cops (I am)

A person can be against racism while not supporting the BLM organization (I am)

A person can be both for the right to bear arms yet wants tougher gun ownership regulations (I am)

A person can believe in a higher power (God) yet believe we are not alone in the universe (I do) 

A person can be a Browns fan and still pick them to go 6-10 and win the preseason prognostication pole most years (I do) 

 

^ This message was sponsored by neither a republican or a democrat and shows what a registered Independent thinker actually looks like. 

 

 

[The Gipper]

2 minutes ago, D Bone said:

What is so hard to understand??

A person can be both against and for abortion (I am) 

A person can be both for tight boarder security and for legal immigration (I am)

A person can be both for the police and against the bad cops (I am)

A person can be against racism while not supporting the BLM organization (I am)

A person can be both for the right to bear arms yet wants tougher gun ownership regulations (I am)

A person can both believe in a higher power (God) yet believe we are not alone in the universe (I do) 

A person can be a Browns fan and still pick them to go 6-10 and win the preseason prognostication pole most years (I do) 

 

^ This message was sponsored by neither a republican or a democrat and shows what a registered Independent thinker actually looks like. 

 

 

It was not YOUR comments that seemed to be contradictory, it was Lodi's.   I am pretty much with you on most of what you say above...and do not believe them to be contradictory. 

[D Bone]

Just now, The Gipper said:

It was not YOUR comments that seemed to be contradictory, it was Lodi's.   I am pretty much with you on most of what you say above...and do not believe them to be contradictory. 

Now I know I'm in the Matrix....... you and I just agreed!

Now where's that red pill? 

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, D Bone said:

Now I know I'm in the Matrix....... you and I just agreed!

Now where's that red pill? 

Well, I said "most.  So don't get too excited. 

[D Bone]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

Well, I said "most.  So don't get too excited. 

Ahhh. That's better. 

[Ibleedbrown]

26 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I explained it this way....that is MY interpretation. Just because it is not yours, doesn't make it a bad interpretation. I thought you were a lawyer...not a psychologist.

Trust me,  a large portion of what lawyers do is psychology. 

While I acknowledge that I could possibly have faults, if I did I would never admit or apologize for them. Keep in mind....this is opinion, so not necessarily how you might see things.

But, as a lawyer/judge...it is part of my job to identify contradictions in person's comments/statements.  So...it is not a matter of how I see things...it is that you express wide differences and contradictions in how say YOU see things yourself.   

I kinda think contradictions are a big force right now. Internal conflicts to sort out. I know l got them. 

The whole statue removal thing. Admittedly it rubs me the wrong way. History and art are 2 things l’m driven to protect. 

I don’t really see the Confederacy as a big all encompassing thing where everyone was on board with the cause. I see an awful lot of young men roped into a horrid situation because a few puppet masters pulled out their “fuck you” cards at the table. 

That’s my own internal conflict, and l am in no way on board with what they fought for. But l do care that our history, even the sordid parts, are evident and in your face. 

 

[MLD Woody]

Sure.... But there's a "correct" translation. 

If someone says gato in Spanish, and they tell you it means cat, you can't then just translate it as dog. I mean you could, but you'd be objectively wrong. 

There's no need for translation or interpretation. Kap literally said what he was doing. Interpreting it any other way is just objectively "translating" it incorrectly. 

You could be offended by it I guess, but you can't say what he meant to say when he literally told us what he was saying. 

[D Bone]

16 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Sure.... But there's a "correct" translation. 

If someone says gato in Spanish, and they tell you it means cat, you can't then just translate it as dog. I mean you could, but you'd be objectively wrong. 

There's no need for translation or interpretation. Kap literally said what he was doing. Interpreting it any other way is just objectively "translating" it incorrectly. 

You could be offended by it I guess, but you can't say what he meant to say when he literally told us what he was saying. 

Totally agree, however that knife cuts both ways.

Drew Brees was ambushed, er asked about his opinion regarding kneeling during the flag. He very articulately went on to describe what the flag means to him and why, and that he doesn't agree with anyone kneeling and not standing during the anthem.

He never once said he was in any way against the anti-racism movement. He never once said that he didn't know exactly why they were kneeling.....  yet he was incorrectly objectively "translated" by the woke Titteridiot mob forcing him to cower down and apologize for something he has no right to be sorry for.

I hear why they are going to kneel. Moreover, I know why as I'm not completely obtuse (< heck I just used a big word) yet I don't have to agree with it, much less like it, to still be sympathetic to their cause..... no matter what the woke mob screams at this hard working, rule following, positive part of humanity, yet somehow just a privileged dude.

I can be both against the war, yet support the soldiers.... although in this case, it seems to be a Bizarro World version of that. 

[MLD Woody]

17 minutes ago, D Bone said:

Totally agree, however that knife cuts both ways.

Drew Brees was ambushed, er asked about his opinion regarding kneeling during the flag. He very articulately went on to describe what the flag means to him and why, and that he doesn't agree with anyone kneeling and not standing during the anthem.

He never once said he was in any way against the anti-racism movement. He never once said that he didn't know exactly why they were kneeling.....  yet he was incorrectly objectively "translated" by the woke Titteridiot mob forcing him to cower down and apologize for something he has no right to be sorry for.

I hear why they are going to kneel. Moreover, I know why as I'm not completely obtuse (< heck I just used a big word) yet I don't have to agree with it, much less like it, to still be sympathetic to their cause..... no matter what the woke mob screams at this hard working, rule following, positive part of humanity, yet somehow just a privileged dude.

I can be both against the war, yet support the soldiers.... although in this case, it seems to be a Bizarro World version of that. 

I understand. Some on here can't operate in a gray area but I get it. 

I will say though it may not have necessarily been a "woke Twitter mob" that changed Brees mind but instead the actual teammates he works alongside every day. His brothers that share his blood, swear and tears. All that jazz. It probably had a much bigger impact on him than randos in Twitter. 

[Unsympathetic]

2 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

History and art are 2 things l’m driven to protect. 

I don’t really see the Confederacy as a big all encompassing thing

You are wildly objectively wrong with this.    Those "pieces of art" were created explicitly to remind black people that they are controlled by white people - yes, to justify those towns installing Jim Crow laws.  The text of the Cornerstone Speech [first link] shows that Southerners convinced themselves that slavery was good for black people [Just like.. Fox News watchers!] and that whites are naturally better than blacks.  There's nothing you're protecting other than racist losers, dude.  The Lost Cause is fake news.  Poor people getting caught up in things..... is both life and not a justification.

Sure, "put them in museums" is one argument --- except that those statues were deliberately inexpensive.  From the second link: It's like they went to the Wal-Mart for statues rather than actually commissioning something marble or granite.  What's the difference between keeping for posterity all 143 of your grandmother's cheap and ugly mismatched chotchkys - or just putting her two Tiffany's on a shelf in your family room and landfilling the rest?

To be clear: I'm calling the South losers because they.. lost the war.  Not only are their values repugnant, they got their butts whupped. 

And the North will do it again each time the South rises again.

[ballpeen]

Play the Anthem before the players enter the field.

[Orion]

My 2020 stance on this:  If they're taking a knee to point out police misconduct towards blacks, then I'm all for it.

[Comeonman]

4 hours ago, D Bone said:

What is so hard to understand??

A person can be both against and for abortion (I am) 

A person can be both for tight boarder security and for legal immigration (I am)

A person can be both for the police and against the bad cops (I am)

A person can be against racism while not supporting the BLM organization (I am)

A person can be both for the right to bear arms yet wants tougher gun ownership regulations (I am)

A person can believe in a higher power (God) yet believe we are not alone in the universe (I do) 

A person can be a Browns fan and still pick them to go 6-10 and win the preseason prognostication pole most years (I do) 

 

^ This message was sponsored by neither a republican or a democrat and shows what a registered Independent thinker actually looks like. 

 

 

Maybe my favorite non-football related post I’ve ever read on this site.