Higgins vs Hodge

[Orion]

We're all familiar with Higgins' history here.  He went from being a favorite target of Baker, to Freddie's dog house, to actually off the team this past offseason.  Finally Berry got him back with the team and he barely made the final roster cuts.  

He was not a Stefanski guy.  And it seemed quite obvious that Stef favored Hodge...but he and VanPelt always spoke highly of him, but he just could not get on the field.  It was always Hodge.

So, Hodge and his air guitar got injured and Higgins had to play.  Higgins is now tied for 2nd on the team with 35 receptions (tied w/ Hooper) and 2nd on the team in receiving yards (544).

Although it was rumored a couple of weeks ago that the Browns were working with Higgins on a new deal, his agent said, Ain't nobody from the Browns talked to me.

I would love to sit with Stef at the bar with a beer and some bar nuts and have him explain what he really thinks regarding and Higgins & Hodge.

Rashard Higgins

35

544

15.5

43

4

KhaDarel Hodge

9

155

17.2

42

0

[Comeonman]

I would too...

Hodge isn’t terrible, but Higgins is a playmaker for sure. Not sure why you would not invest in him unless it’s an attitude/locker room thing 

[Ibleedbrown]

A couple weeks ago l did a sort of comparative analysis between Higgins and Landry. From a statistical standpoint there’s some evidence that suggests Higgins had basically become the #1 receiver since OBJ went down. I sort of posed the question “could Higgins be the full time #1 receiver?” It seemed the general consensus was no, but a solid player to have. 
 

If we’re doing Higgins and Hodge now l’ll post some statistical fodder. The first 2 are Higgins’ stats, the second 2 are Hodge.

[Ibleedbrown]

Higgins has a couple more years of experience and a definite advantage in opportunity. Neither has overly impressive YAC numbers. Both have similar yards/reception stats. The thing not listed here is that Hodge is perceived to be the better downfield blocker. Higgins’ career fumbles should be half of what they are. 

[browns52]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

We're all familiar with Higgins' history here.  He went from being a favorite target of Baker, to Freddie's dog house, to actually off the team this past offseason.  Finally Berry got him back with the team and he barely made the final roster cuts.  

He was not a Stefanski guy.  And it seemed quite obvious that Stef favored Hodge...but he and VanPelt always spoke highly of him, but he just could not get on the field.  It was always Hodge.

So, Hodge and his air guitar got injured and Higgins had to play.  Higgins is now tied for 2nd on the team with 35 receptions (tied w/ Hooper) and 2nd on the team in receiving yards (544).

Although it was rumored a couple of weeks ago that the Browns were working with Higgins on a new deal, his agent said, Ain't nobody from the Browns talked to me.

I would love to sit with Stef at the bar with a beer and some bar nuts and have him explain what he really thinks regarding and Higgins & Hodge.

Rashard Higgins

35

544

15.5

43

4

KhaDarel Hodge

9

155

17.2

42

0

i think there is room for both.....i would like to see that....i'd give higgins the edge overall based on the stats but hodge has been injured....thought i saw him on the field against the gints the last game...

[Orion]

38 minutes ago, browns52 said:

thought i saw him on the field against the gints

Yeah.  He was out there.

Certainly there's room for both.  And Peoples-Jones.  And OBJ.  -   Perhaps they just don't like Higgins in the slot.  

...and I notice that we still have Derick Willies on the PS.  That guy looks great gettin' off the bus (6'4, 207 lb) ...and he's been around a few years now....a couple of regimes....and another team's PS....but he just can't beat out 5'10 Marvin Hall.

[Unsympathetic]

Neither of these guys would make the Steelers' roster.. Not sure this is really worth discussion as neither are long-term.  DPJ is great as a #4; we need a more reliable and explosive #3 than either of these. They both drop too many and neither can separate from NFL-level man coverage.

[nickers]

Hodge is nice and physical.. I just think Higgy has a better overall game...

[Orion]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

Hodge is nice and physical..

Well, as Ibleedbrown mentioned the blocking, perhaps that was a reason Stef preferred Hodge.  He could be on the field and not be tipping our hand as to run or pass.

 

9 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

From a statistical standpoint there’s some evidence that suggests Higgins had basically become the #1 receiver since OBJ went down.

Yes, he does seem to play that position.  As does Peoples-Jones.

[jcam222]

The guy always delivers when he’s in the field but made the doghouse with multiple staffs. Seems to me there must be an issue with work ethic or attitude?

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Neither of these guys would make the Steelers' roster.. Not sure this is really worth discussion as neither are long-term.  DPJ is great as a #4; we need a more reliable and explosive #3 than either of these. They both drop too many and neither can separate from NFL-level man coverage.

That double move DPJ put on against off-man might foreshadow his change of direction and ability to separate when his footwork is right and consistent.  Should he continue to improve on that in the off-season, no reason People's can't be a quality NFL receiver.    He's a rookie and contributing early - give it time.

[Zombo]

Higgins is the second best receiver we have right now and an excellent catcher of the football, and a good route runner, that is whey he is still here after all these years ... he catches it.

Hodge is a great blocker and a good guy to have on the roster.

Ideally, either OBJ comes back or you draft another #1 receiver type. Peoples Jones emerges as the #2 and Landry plays the slot he was born to play.

But in the short term, Higgins has great chemistry with Bake and Hodge is our most physical guy, so they are both on my roster next year, I'd pay Higgins now simply because Baker likes throwing to him.

Zombo

[Nero]

Don't change it if it's working. Even before the trade for OBJ, I felt that we could do fine with Landry+ some WR2. We already have a scary double punch running back duo, some reliable TEs and decent WRs.

I think we could get a better WR corp, but at what cost? I wouldn't spend even a 3rd in drafting one looking at our defense. Plus I think that loading the WR room would only grow tension and put Baker more on the spotlight, when I think this team should be run first in order to become a contender. We even got some good games out of Brashad Perriman in 2018 I believe. 

Keep the guy who has a lot of chemistry with Baker, and keep Hodge and DPJ if there isn't a cheaper alternative in FA or draft. We got more pressing problems on other areas. 

[SdBacker80]

Has Hodge proven anything at this point?  The guy hasn’t even found the end zone yet. 

[jiggins7919]

13 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Has Hodge proven anything at this point?  The guy hasn’t even found the end zone yet. 

Hodge had a bit of bad luck. Had a terrific training camp, but then suffered an injury right when we're starting to heat up. He also got deep early in the season and we missed him against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. He also screwed up against the Ravens by jumping early and causing a penalty on a play designed for him in the end zone. 

Bottom line, he's probably a bit better then you think, and he's got reliable hands. Many of his receptions go for first downs and he's an elite blocker. Is he better than Higgins? That I don't know, but the guy does have value or else Stefanski wouldn't play him. 

[SdBacker80]

6 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Hodge had a bit of bad luck. Had a terrific training camp, but then suffered an injury right when we're starting to heat up. He also got deep early in the season and we missed him against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. He also screwed up against the Ravens by jumping early and causing a penalty on a play designed for him in the end zone. 

Bottom line, he's probably a bit better then you think, and he's got reliable hands. Many of his receptions go for first downs and he's an elite blocker. Is he better than Higgins? That I don't know, but the guy does have value or else Stefanski wouldn't play him. 

9 times out of 10- I’ll take a known quantity over an unknown quantity.

[Tour2ma]

On 12/24/2020 at 7:07 AM, Zombo said:

Hodge is a great blocker and a good guy to have on the roster.

Hands are good as well. That diving sideline catch he made a couple weeks ago showed me something I had not seen before.

 

I checked receiver drops for grins and in the "top 20" we have only one name. Surprised to see it was Landry who is tied for 8th with 6. Then I remembered that rough, couple-game stretch he had a few weeks ago when IIRC he was playing hurt. List only went as high as 4 with a dozen or more tied at the 18th spot.

As a team we are tied for 10th most at 17 with 5 other teams. League leaders? Not surprisingly (if you've been reading Vag's posts) it's PTG tied with DAL at 27.

 

[Orion]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

checked receiver drops for grins and in the "top 20" we have only one name. Surprised to see it was Landry who is tied for 8th with 6

Ya know what though, sometimes Landry is a last resort throw to.  Like OBJ was.  If all else fails, throw it to one of them, and throw it where only superman can catch it.

[TopDawg31]

watch Hodge on ST's, he makes his mark there.

 

[nickers]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:53 PM, SdBacker80 said:

Has Hodge proven anything at this point?  The guy hasn’t even found the end zone yet. 

Eggzactly!... Khadarell Hodges are a dime a dozen!

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

Eggzactly!... Khadarell Hodges are a dime a dozen!

I think he’s actually valuable and reliable as a 4th WR on the roster...but let’s not pretend that we can compare Hodge and Hollywood at this point.  

[nickers]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I think he’s actually valuable and reliable as a 4th WR on the roster...but let’s not pretend that we can compare Hodge and Hollywood at this point.  

I agree!

[Orion]

I wanted to update this after our Wild Card win over the Steelers.  During the game Collinsworth said that Higgins doesn't run good routes and he's not fast, while he was praising the connection he and Baker have.  Kind of a backhanded compliment if you will.  But the gist is that he doesn't think Higgins runs good routes.  I mean, we know that he's not real fast, but we don't really get to watch his route running too much.  -  I did see a replay from the game where Landry put a beautiful head and shoulders fake on a DB to dart inside and have separation...and catch the pass.  If you're going against man coverage, you've gotta be a good route runner to get any separation...and to be able to be a reliable target.  That's what makes the OBJ's and the Landry's of the league so good.

[SdBacker80]

57 minutes ago, Orion said:

I wanted to update this after our Wild Card win over the Steelers.  During the game Collinsworth said that Higgins doesn't run good routes and he's not fast, while he was praising the connection he and Baker have.  Kind of a backhanded compliment if you will.  But the gist is that he doesn't think Higgins runs good routes.  I mean, we know that he's not real fast, but we don't really get to watch his route running too much.  -  I did see a replay from the game where Landry put a beautiful head and shoulders fake on a DB to dart inside and have separation...and catch the pass.  If you're going against man coverage, you've gotta be a good route runner to get any separation...and to be able to be a reliable target.  That's what makes the OBJ's and the Landry's of the league so good.

I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches.  I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs.  Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.

You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.  

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR. 

I know you're trying to make a point, but 2nd rate?

Cris had 5 healthy seasons and posted 1000+ in four of them (starting with his rookie season) and 989 in the fifth.

Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile... problem was that at 192# he was a rail. Had great hands as well...

 

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Dude was tall (6'5) and fast (4.4 in the 40) and agile

- talking about Chris Collinsworth - He was a genuine pain in the ass to our defense.  I hated him.  I hated him in 2007 when he was talking about us and was so obviously disappointed sounding when he was saying that it looks like the Browns were going to the playoffs. (he obviously hated us.  and, of course, we didn't end up going to the playoffs).

But I always thought that he was a good receiver.  And I thought he was a quality commentator.  Articulate and knowledgeable.  And judging by his work during our Wild Card game broadcast, he's gotten over his playing days hatred of us. 

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches.  I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs.  Yes, I don’t think he separates that well and he’s not a blazer in fact probably not “fast” I haven’t noticed bad route running - I guess we will defer to the 2rd rate 80s Bengal WR.

You usually need “quicks” speed or be a polished route runner to survive at that level.  

One thing l noted in the game where we lost all our starting receivers was the diminished ability to make the contested catch. Higgins does a fine job at that. Not quite Landry-esque, but pretty good.

Plenty of guys have carved out a good career by doing just that, making contested catches.

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’d like to see the analytics on percentage of contested catches.  I think Hollywood does a good job with a defender draped over him making grabs.

Turns out there's a site for that... 😮 Pretty good one I've used before. Here's Higgins' and Hodge's...

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/khadarel-hodge/

And while I'm at it...

Landry...

 

I can't attest to their accuracy or methodology. If you look at PFF's ratings you see their top guys are in the mid-60s or so, so clearly there are some subjective differences between them.

However, any site's ratings should be good relative to itself.

[WizardDawg808]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:40 PM, tiamat63 said:

That double move DPJ put on against off-man might foreshadow his change of direction and ability to separate when his footwork is right and consistent.  Should he continue to improve on that in the off-season, no reason People's can't be a quality NFL receiver.    He's a rookie and contributing early - give it time.

He's made several KEY blocks down the stretch here.  Rook looks like a steal, though the Buckeye in me wanted KJ Hill

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

- talking about Chris Collinsworth -Articulate and knowledgeable.  And judging by his work during our Wild Card game broadcast, he's gotten over his playing days hatred of us. 

Yep-he did us a very excellent job.