Major projected draft prospects for Browns first three rounds

[Tour2ma]

17 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Meaning, is an edge rusher just an edge rusher in the Browns defense? or, the ability to drop back and cover important, which is why I liked Ojulari better as the pick? Kwity is that good, but depending, I'd go Ojulari. Just wondering....

On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being most important a 4-3 DE "Edge" ability to drop is a "1".

We saw MG drop maybe twice all year. It's as rare as zone-blitzes are rare in a given D-Coord's play calls.

 

 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/20/2021 at 11:18 PM, gumby73 said:

On 3/20/2021 at 10:51 PM, tiamat63 said:

I feel like I'm watching Trent Cole.  But I can't tell for the better or the worse... yet.  

good comparison..

quick 1st step..speed to power..stacks & shreds with ripping powerful hands.good punch when called for. but you won't see much of any corner bends.. 

Although Kwity does not quite have his length... I keep seeing the young Carlos Dunlap.

[tiamat63]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Although Kwity does not quite have his length... I keep seeing the young Carlos Dunlap.

I can sort of see that but, as you said, minus Carlos' height and wingspan.  

[gumby73]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Although Kwity does not quite have his length... I keep seeing the young Carlos Dunlap.

My brother in law is a huge Michigan fan (oh! the text messages we've lived) I've always told him..It's like 'Brandon Graham' (1.13) still plays at Michigan... but Kwity can bring a Myles Jack type 1st step..

Honestly, If a gm's job includes projecting talent to the NFL?

Kwity Paye is my (hand in dirt) can't miss 'freak'... No combine, but the dude will blow-up his pro day.. He's had Pro coaching (Harbaugh) since 2017..Kwity played 2 games in 2017 & Jay & I, knew the kid had 'it' to bring into 2018.. He's added more " tools to his toolbox" for 3 season's, that others don't have.. Paye has faced some of the stiffest comp../ his team got whipped on Saturdays, but regardless of the score.. He's all about great effort with a full motor.. I can't remember a single football play the guy took off.. 

He's got twitch/size/wing/high motor/ all in a Julius Peppers frame...  Paye's my top defensive player on the board with no thinking twice... (I just can't find a way to get into the top 10 🧐)     

[SdBacker80]

35 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

My brother in law is a huge Michigan fan (oh! the text messages we've lived) I've always told him..It's like 'Brandon Graham' (1.13) still plays at Michigan... but Kwity can bring a Myles Jack type 1st step..

Honestly, If a gm's job includes projecting talent to the NFL?

Kwity Paye is my (hand in dirt) can't miss 'freak'... No combine, but the dude will blow-up his pro day.. He's had Pro coaching (Harbaugh) since 2017..Kwity played 2 games in 2017 & Jay & I, knew the kid had 'it' to bring into 2018.. He's added more " tools to his toolbox" for 3 season's, that others don't have.. Paye has faced some of the stiffest comp../ his team got whipped on Saturdays, but regardless of the score.. He's all about great effort with a full motor.. I can't remember a single football play the guy took off.. 

He's got twitch/size/wing/high motor/ all in a Julius Peppers frame...  Paye's my top defensive player on the board with no thinking twice... (I just can't find a way to get into the top 10 🧐)     

11.5 sacks in 28 career games.  Was he held back by the scheme?  Is he a late developer?

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

11.5 sacks in 28 career games.  Was he held back by the scheme?  Is he a late developer?

Scheme & mostly lack of surrounding defensive talent..Kwity was it.. or schemed out of it, to cover someone else's butt.. In 6 games, they gave up almost 35/game..

Jim Harbaugh is no Stef in offensive play calling.. Their defense was always on the field 😋 

[Bigalow80]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:03 PM, calfoxwc said:

time for a goofy prediction:

The Browns will trade up to the 20 pick if their guy is still there, or Tenn. will pick him.

They trade a third round and a fifth round, to move up to 20 to pick:

Azeez Ojulari, LB/DE

he's super athletic, bendy, explosive, very intelligent, outstanding character, loves the game, is fine at dropping back in pass coverage.....

he won't fall to the Browns at 26. He may not even fall to the 20th pick, but I think he will.

and just makes stuff happen.

 

I agree. No way the browns come out of this draft with 9 picks. Plus, I think Azeez Ojulari is perfect for this defense. Re-sign OV (not for the beginning of the year but the end), bring in Dunlap on 1 year deals and then draft AO for the future. Plus, when Dunlap and OV leave, you can collect the comp picks. Go DB in round 2 and BPA for the rest of the draft. This defense can then get after the QB. 

[Dutch Oven]

South Carolina CB Jaycee Horn (Joe Horn's son) has met with the Browns multiple times, he says. 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:10 PM, gumby73 said:

He's got twitch/size/wing/high motor/ all in a Julius Peppers frame...  Paye's my top defensive player on the board with no thinking twice... (I just can't find a way to get into the top 10 🧐)     

Peppers... ah, yes...

Obviously Kwitty has to be pushed down the board to us. And that is just what happened in a DraftNetwork mock I did using their "projections". Four QBs going in the top ten helped.

Plus there's the scheme fit question. Kwitty is made to be a 4-3 DE. Too big to stand up as a 3-4 Edge OLB and not quite big enough to put his hand on the ground in a 3-4. Almost all of the other top Edge prospects... Ojulari, Phillips, Rousseau... are in that stand up mold.

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

Plus, I think Azeez Ojulari is perfect for this defense.

At DE? I can't see that... at least not on early downs at 240#.

[gumby73]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Intriguing pair there... Werner as our SAM and Tui looks like a potential, DT steal in the 3rd.

Tui's trenchmate Tufele looks to be more NFL ready to be a 3-down IDL... has the higher floor... but Tui's upside value at a one-round discount is attractive.

Werner has not drawn a lot of attention... just doesn't seem to have the speed for the NFL... but the kid just makes plays.

 I just can't find myself pulling the trigger on a DT until rounds 3 or 4.. Waiting till round 4, the average seems to be what's left...

I think Werner has that Luke Kuechly gift ? 'if you devour your opponents tendencies & situational formations via game tape?         " I'll still get there, before they will '

These sim's know me.. I'll pull the trigger on Browning or Justin Hilliard too.. They just take them 2 picks before my pick 🤷‍♂️

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Plus there's the scheme fit question. Kwitty is made to be a 4-3 DE. Too big to stand up as a 3-4 Edge OLB and not quite big enough to put his hand on the ground in a 3-4. Almost all of the other top Edge prospects... Ojulari, Phillips, Rousseau... are in that stand up mold.

^^ excellent game-tape point right here fella's^^^..... and The more i watch Carlos Basham..👀  the more i see him playing DE similar to Olivier Vernon 👀  

[tiamat63]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Peppers... ah, yes...

Obviously Kwitty has to be pushed down the board to us. And that is just what happened in a DraftNetwork mock I did using their "projections". Four QBs going in the top ten helped.

Plus there's the scheme fit question. Kwitty is made to be a 4-3 DE. Too big to stand up as a 3-4 Edge OLB and not quite big enough to put his hand on the ground in a 3-4. Almost all of the other top Edge prospects... Ojulari, Phillips, Rousseau... are in that stand up mold.

Kwity is 6'3 265.    Decent list of 2pt edge's similar size.  Ware, Tamba Hali,Chandler Jones...

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Kwity is 6'3 265.    Decent list of 2pt edge's similar size.  Ware, Tamba Hali,Chandler Jones...

I've got him at 272 per DraftScout... not a big difference, but significant. Still a tweener to me as a 3-4 DE/Edge.

Ware/Jones both seemed more "twitchy" to me... especially Ware... but just an impression. Both were very capable pass defenders in addition to their rush skills.

Hali? Always struck me as "that other guy" and he was a liability in pass coverage. In his KC years he benefited from playing opposite the young Houston, who was a phenom early in his career. Of course that's what we are looking for opposite MG...

[calfoxwc]

I think Ojulari would be a terrific olb - if a couple lb's leave in FA. ...

it's just that Kwitty is surely to be long gone.

If I was going to predict a true edge rusher kick ass DE for the Browns, it  would be

Patrick Jones II. Jones is my edge rusher first round prediction for the Browns. He

won't be there very long in the second round, and it's a weak class of edge rushers....

Interesting reads:

https://longhornswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-draft-edge-rushers-prospects-texas-longhorns-joseph-ossai/#:~:text=Edge rusher is a premiere position that every,is up for grabs for several talented athletes.

2021 NFL Draft: Ranking the top 10 edge rushers

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/patrick-jones-nfl-draft-player-profile-pittsburgh-edge/

[tiamat63]

17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

South Carolina CB Jaycee Horn (Joe Horn's son) has met with the Browns multiple times, he says. 

Shhh.  Was going to name drop him this weekend.

 

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I've got him at 272 per DraftScout... not a big difference, but significant. Still a tweener to me as a 3-4 DE/Edge.

Ware/Jones both seemed more "twitchy" to me... especially Ware... but just an impression. Both were very capable pass defenders in addition to their rush skills.

Hali? Always struck me as "that other guy" and he was a liability in pass coverage. In his KC years he benefited from playing opposite the young Houston, who was a phenom early in his career. Of course that's what we are looking for opposite MG...

The twitch was more off-ball athletic ability/agility.  Not something that can't be developed either.  Don't forget that Ware played a great deal of 3pt end in Dallas as well.  

You're forgetting Hali's early years in KC.   He was already a pro-bowler and all pro before houston showed up.  

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Jones is my edge rusher first round prediction for the Browns. He

won't be there very long in the second round

Willing to accept bets on this one. 

[SdBacker80]

Jaycee Horn CB.  
 

Intrigued. 
 

6’0’’ 3/4  205 pounds

4.39 40.  

41.5 in Vertical.

Probably performed well enough to be in the top half of the round now 

 

[Tour2ma]

39 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Willing to accept bets on this one. 

Ditto... He should be glad there won't be a Green Room.

... and I'm taking bets on this not being a deep draft at Edge.

 

[Tour2ma]

28 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

Jaycee Horn CB.  

DraftNet has him as their #3 CB behind Farley and Surtain II.

Quote

The son of four-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Joe Horn, South Carolina Gamecocks cornerback Jaycee Horn enters the NFL after three seasons in the SEC where he demonstrated consistent growth. After primarily playing in the slot in 2018, Horn played out wide in 2019 and 2020 where he projects best in the NFL. Horn has a long and stocky frame that is built for competing with X-receivers in the NFL. His size, length, and physicality show up in coverage where he is highly disruptive in press and ultra competitive at the catch point. The concerns with Horn show up primarily as a tackler and playing off-man coverage. Unfortunately, Horn doesn’t play to his weight class as a tackler and there are too many missed tackles on film. Additionally, Horn can be guilty of guessing when mirroring routes, leading to false steps, which is problematic given how segmented his transitions can be in the first place. If used correctly and with development, Horn can be a quality starter, especially if his ball skills continue to progress as they did in 2020. 

Ideal Role: Starting outside corner

Scheme Fit: Predominantly zone and press coverage with minimal deployment of off-man coverage.

 

[tiamat63]

Watched SCar v Bama.  Jaycee didn't look out of place when covering Smith...  at least as well as anyone else did.   But his off-ball on any of their receivers wasn't great.  He would immediately be the biggest DB on roster not named Harrison.

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Watched SCar v Bama.  Jaycee didn't look out of place when covering Smith...  at least as well as anyone else did.   But his off-ball on any of their receivers wasn't great.  He would immediately be the biggest DB on roster not named Harrison.

Did you detect any lack of "want to" when it came to tackling?

[tiamat63]

Just now, Tour2ma said:

Did you detect any lack of "want to" when it came to tackling?

Can't think of many corners that "want to".   But it didn't seem like he was Eric Wright either.

[MLD Woody]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:47 PM, SdBacker80 said:

11.5 sacks in 28 career games.  Was he held back by the scheme?  Is he a late developer?

Mostly scheme 

[calfoxwc]

 I can't imagine a possibility that Jacee Horn falls out of the top 20 at worst.

[MLD Woody]

 

@tiamat63 @Tour2ma 

 

Kwity Paye's Pro Day numbers

Height: 6-2

Weight: 261

Hand: 10 inches

Wing: 78 4/8 inches

Arm Length: 33 inches

40-Yard Dash: 4.52 seconds

Vertical Jump: 35 1/2 inches

Broad Jump: 9-10

3-Cone Drill: DNP

Pro Agility: DNP

60-Yard Shuttle: DNP

Bench: 36 reps

[tiamat63]

13 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

 

@tiamat63 @Tour2ma 

 

Kwity Paye's Pro Day numbers

Height: 6-2

Weight: 261

Hand: 10 inches

Wing: 78 4/8 inches

Arm Length: 33 inches

40-Yard Dash: 4.52 seconds

Vertical Jump: 35 1/2 inches

Broad Jump: 9-10

3-Cone Drill: DNP

Pro Agility: DNP

60-Yard Shuttle: DNP

Bench: 36 reps

Broad jump isn't bad, neither is the vert.  Obviously the 40 is unreal for someone that size, but the 3-cone,   really was looking forward to that.

[MLD Woody]

3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Broad jump isn't bad, neither is the vert.  Obviously the 40 is unreal for someone that size, but the 3-cone,   really was looking forward to that.

I think he'll never live up to the myth of his current reported 3 cone, so his agent probably told him not to do it at the pro day.  

He'll keep that recorded 3 cone as his "official".

 

I'm surprised he knocked out 36 reps. That's more than I would have guessed.

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I think he'll never live up to the myth of his current reported 3 cone, so his agent probably told him not to do it at the pro day.  

He'll keep that recorded 3 cone as his "official".

 

I'm surprised he knocked out 36 reps. That's more than I would have guessed.

Meh. Bench really is something almost out of mind for me.    Putting up past 25 reps is really not necessary.

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Meh. Bench really is something almost out of mind for me.    Putting up past 25 reps is really not necessary.

I'm not saying it matters (I've watched / read plenty of things by "football people" saying it really doesn't matter). I'm just saying I'm surprised he had 36.

[Bigalow80]

The more I think about it, I feel the browns are preparing to go corner in Round 1 and DE in Round 2. However, if the board falls to where their #1 DE guy is on the board at 26, they grab him and then trade up to grab the corner. I think the difference in talent between the top 5 edge guys is in the eye of the beholder and what each d-coordinator wants. I believe joe woods would love to have 2 lock down guys on the outside and that will help the d-line as well and they could work with what they currently have and potentially resign OV.