WTF does this mean?

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

I have maintained that Depodesta, and not Stefanski decides what crucial plays to call.

KS is a totally different mentality than he was pre Browns and stories of things like Depo's contract condition that he be connected via mic and headphones during the games always red flagged this team to me.

In the linked article Berry calls KS "a servant leader".

If that does not support my beliefs what does?

WTF is a servant leader? These two words are antithetical to each other.

Servant leader? Okay, so who does he serve?

Fucked up franchise.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/11/what-about-kevin-stefanski-as-the-future-coach-of-the-cleveland-browns-terry-pluto.html?outputType=amp

[Orion]

You may be reading too much into it.  I mean, they're all here as a servant to the organization, to the heritage, to the fans, to Haslem.   

[D Bone]

He could serve me a wheatgrass smoothie with those dreamy eyes. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

You may be reading too much into it.  I mean, they're all here as a servant to the organization, to the heritage, to the fans, to Haslem.   

I don't know bro, I really don't.

It catches my attention when little seemingly innocuous things like this drop here and there.

When asked about a stupid TE run on 4th and 1,  instead of Chybb, ShitMyPantsky answered "we live and die by the analytics".

Bro, that is a fire alarm for me, and his answer was not an answer.

If what he said is true, I want to know...

1).What play wolf YOU have called

2) if analytics dictated that play,  who.and/or why or how was that play determined to be the best?

Sorry bro, I don't believe this to be minutia. I think it gives us a peak into a HC that is a puppet on a string. 

[Orion]

42 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Sorry bro, I don't believe this to be minutia. I think it gives us a peak into a HC that is a puppet on a string.

That's why I said may be reading too much into it.  When the 'live and die with analytics' comment came out my wise-crack response for Stef was, 'Hey, I just work here'.  So I understand the sentiment.  Is everyone save Haslem reporting to DePo?  We're all going to do what 'the computer' tells us to do.  That seems to be the mantra dejure around the league.  The Charger coach practically handed us the win at the end of the game with his 4th down antics (analytics).  But we botched up getting the kicker the few extra yards to make the FG attempt easier.  

All that said, it's a team(s) game.  And the HC / GM are a team.  It's the best team of teams that we've had for a quarter century.  And the organization as a whole realized that the 'team game' concept does in fact come with one caveat...you do need one particular player of the team to be of exceptional talent in order to truly compete for championships.  So they made a bold move....and our player of exceptional talent will be joining the team in a few games.  

We've gotta give this whole package, QB talent - roster talent - HC/GM talent,  this year and next to see what comes of it.  As Flugal said, December 4th starts our 2023 pre season.  

[hoorta]

23 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I don't know bro, I really don't.

It catches my attention when little seemingly innocuous things like this drop here and there.

When asked about a stupid TE run on 4th and 1,  instead of Chybb, ShitMyPantsky answered "we live and die by the analytics".

Bro, that is a fire alarm for me, and his answer was not an answer.

If what he said is true, I want to know...

1).What play wolf YOU have called

2) if analytics dictated that play,  who.and/or why or how was that play determined to be the best?

Sorry bro, I don't believe this to be minutia. I think it gives us a peak into a HC that is a puppet on a string. 

Hey, DePo may be great at baseball analytics, not so sure about football analytics. As to him actually calling plays- sorry, that's not allowed. And if he is\was the Browns are in deep shit. That said- it's not just the Browns doing stuff that would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago. Like going for it on 4th and short on your side of the 50. Go figure.  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

Hey, DePo may be great at baseball analytics, not so sure about football analytics. As to him actually calling plays- sorry, that's not allowed. And if he is\was the Browns are in deep shit. That said- it's not just the Browns doing stuff that would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago. Like going for it on 4th and short on your side of the 50. Go figure.  

I  convinced Depo is intimately involved in play calling, and Iean during the game.

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I  convinced Depo is intimately involved in play calling, and Iean during the game.

Let's not turn this into a Fox News episode. If you're convinced - you're convinced.  It just seems weird the Browns would even waste time and income on OC Alex Van Pelt at all if this was the situation.  This team is wired to run the football and eat the clock doing so, which is supposed to rest and refresh legs on our defense.  Scoring points isn't the problem (and I'll get to that soon).  

Having said that, DePo may sit in on any meetings Stefanski has with his OC and Offensive Coaches about the game plan to discuss situational football/play calling scenarios. The Browns scored 48 points in the playoffs against Pittsburgh in January of 2021 with Van Pelt calling the plays (Stefanski was home with covid).  While I get the sense DePo empowers Stefanski with the final decisions - he probably just encourages his HC to keep an open mind with those inclusive of input from others.  And by others, we have some pretty damn good offensive coaches like Stump Mitchell (RBs) and Bill Callahan (OL) in particular that have invaluable experience and expertise that exceeds that of DePo.  My guess is DePo ranks pretty low on that totem poll unless he magically has the best advice each and every time. 

The Browns rank 6th overall in points scored at 25 points per game behind a career backup QB.  However, they rank 26th overall at points allowed.  Why focus all your concern and worry about the 1 phase of the game that has given the Browns leads and the BEST chance to win most of the games they played?   The problem has been protecting leads the offense has given us.  Why put together a nice 5-6 minute TD drive of ball control offense - if the rested/refreshed legs on defense is only going to give up 7 points in 2 minutes or so?  There's your bigger issue.  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:57 AM, Flugel said:

Let's not turn this into a Fox News episode. If you're convinced - you're convinced.  It just seems weird the Browns would even waste time and income on OC Alex Van Pelt at all if this was the situation.  This team is wired to run the football and eat the clock doing so, which is supposed to rest and refresh legs on our defense.  Scoring points isn't the problem (and I'll get to that soon).  

Having said that, DePo may sit in on any meetings Stefanski has with his OC and Offensive Coaches about the game plan to discuss situational football/play calling scenarios. The Browns scored 48 points in the playoffs against Pittsburgh in January of 2021 with Van Pelt calling the plays (Stefanski was home with covid).  While I get the sense DePo empowers Stefanski with the final decisions - he probably just encourages his HC to keep an open mind with those inclusive of input from others.  And by others, we have some pretty damn good offensive coaches like Stump Mitchell (RBs) and Bill Callahan (OL) in particular that have invaluable experience and expertise that exceeds that of DePo.  My guess is DePo ranks pretty low on that totem poll unless he magically has the best advice each and every time. 

The Browns rank 6th overall in points scored at 25 points per game behind a career backup QB.  However, they rank 26th overall at points allowed.  Why focus all your concern and worry about the 1 phase of the game that has given the Browns leads and the BEST chance to win most of the games they played?   The problem has been protecting leads the offense has given us.  Why put together a nice 5-6 minute TD drive of ball control offense - if the rested/refreshed legs on defense is only going to give up 7 points in 2 minutes or so?  There's your bigger issue.  

Don't eleven that Tom. If I feel motivated I will go look for the articles but I absolutely read several credible sources that said Stefanski's game plan had to pass Depodesta's approval.

I read a couple of times that we handed headphones and aic on during the game.

Whether that happened or not, I don't know, but I do know this.

Stefanski was a much different animal in Minnesota. He is a wimp here.

That DePodesta even pops up regularly in Browns reports is dude, fucked up. No other analytics guy gets media opps like this cocksucker.

One Browns journalist called him the defacto GM and I see that quite clearly to be realistic.

[nickers]

Agreed,,,, The fingerprints by Depo on this team are quite strong...... The questions are valid... Knowing how snakey the Haslams are....

[Flugel]

19 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Don't eleven that Tom. If I feel motivated I will go look for the articles but I absolutely read several credible sources that said Stefanski's game plan had to pass Depodesta's approval.

I read a couple of times that we handed headphones and aic on during the game.

Whether that happened or not, I don't know, but I do know this.

Stefanski was a much different animal in Minnesota. He is a wimp here.

That DePodesta even pops up regularly in Browns reports is dude, fucked up. No other analytics guy gets media opps like this cocksucker.

One Browns journalist called him the defacto GM and I see that quite clearly to be realistic.

 

I read your other thread.  Haslam is the biggest problem here and haven't told you and Nickers that every time you guys waste all your frustration on just Stefanski?

My interpretation of it is Haslam is the one that needs to approve everything, which is far scarier than DePo (who at least played DI College Football).  DePo sought out Stefanski TWICE for interviews because he LIKED his offensive mind and play calling.  Twice.  Granted, there's times the play calling gets frustrating especially when he's doing so around a career backup QB that doesn't always read his progressions that the speed of the game requires him to. Like I said earlier about probably having a meeting about the game-plan involving input from others - they are doing this.  Haslam, DePo and the statistics nerds sit in on it as well. They can add 2 statistics nerds or 3 or 4 with headsets for all I care - and there's no way Stefanski caves in to them. However, if Callahan advises Stefanski that Conklin is kicking whoever's ass is on the edge - it'll be more of a priority to attack than anything the Poindexters in reading glasses have to say during the game.   

Again, is ranking 6th overall in points scored (before the bye week) the problem or is ranking 26th in points allowed the problem?   Seems to me when the Browns play defense - they win!

Edited November 8, 2022 by Flugel

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

 

I read your other thread.  Haslam is the biggest problem here and haven't told you and Nickers that every time you guys waste all your frustration on just Stefanski?

My interpretation of it is Haslam is the one that needs to approve everything, which is far scarier than DePo (who at least played DI College Football).  DePo sought out Stefanski TWICE for interviews because he LIKED his offensive mind and play calling.  Twice.  Granted, there's times the play calling gets frustrating especially when he's doing so around a career backup QB that doesn't always read his progressions that the speed of the game requires him to. Like I said earlier about probably having a meeting about the game-plan involving input from others - they are doing this.  Haslam, DePo and the statistics nerds sit in on it as well. They can add 2 statistics nerds or 3 or 4 with headsets for all I care - and there's no way Stefanski caves in to them. However, if Callahan advises Stefanski that Conklin is kicking whoever's ass is on the edge - it'll be more of a priority to attack than anything the Poindexters in reading glasses have to say during the game.   

Again, is ranking 6th overall in points scored (before the bye week) the problem or is ranking 26th in points allowed the problem?   Seems to me when the Browns play defense - they win!

I have always said it is Haslam. VIA Depodesta. Depo is the head coach. Debate closed.

[Unsympathetic]

Stef has a now-11th DVOA offense with a career journeyman backup QB.  That's absolutely not possible with anyone other than Stef designing the plays and the gameplan and calling the plays.  It's pretty ridiculous this is not acknowledged.

It's laughably tiresome to either think about or discuss anything else.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I have always said it is Haslam. VIA Depodesta. Depo is the head coach. Debate closed.

I have to change the batteries on my bullshit detector; because you showed up to the board with Shitpantski, Shitpantski, Shitpantski.  You had Nickers all dressed up in his cheerleading outfit and fanny floss over that one.

There's never been a debate!   

 

 

[Flugel]

48 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Stef has a now-11th DVOA offense with a career journeyman backup QB.  That's absolutely not possible with anyone other than Stef designing the plays and the gameplan and calling the plays.  It's pretty ridiculous this is not acknowledged.

It's laughably tiresome to either think about or discuss anything else.

Great post!  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

45 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I have to change the batteries on my bullshit detector; because you showed up to the board with Shitpantski, Shitpantski, Shitpantski.  You had Nickers all dressed up in his cheerleading outfit and fanny floss over that one.

There's never been a debate!   

 

 

No, please don't misquote me. ShitMyPantski.....ShitPantski is the lazy version.

Tom, I made no backtrack on ShitMyPantski. It is his incompetence and lack of a spine that allows this shit. He is the one who is responsible for Depo running this team.

Just as I told you that Romeo Crennell and PhilSewage were coffee fetchers, so too all coordinators are coffee fetchers, and ShitMyPantski likewise is a coffee fetcher, and in greater detail a fellatio specialist on Depodesta.

Now, I concede your point that I blamed a lot of the gutless calls on SMP (ShitMyPantski) but have changed my aim to DePo. Fair enough.

However, SMP IS indeed a shit head coach. He certainly isn't taking the Browns anywhere.

There is no such thing as a "servant leader", any more than Lizzo is a svelte fatass.

So, to be clear. I concede I shifted blame, however, I am still on Point. SMP is not a leader, and Depo is running the entire Browns organization.

[syd]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:44 AM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I have maintained that Depodesta, and not Stefanski decides what crucial plays to call.

KS is a totally different mentality than he was pre Browns and stories of things like Depo's contract condition that he be connected via mic and headphones during the games always red flagged this team to me.

In the linked article Berry calls KS "a servant leader".

If that does not support my beliefs what does?

WTF is a servant leader? These two words are antithetical to each other.

Servant leader? Okay, so who does he serve?

Fucked up franchise.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/11/what-about-kevin-stefanski-as-the-future-coach-of-the-cleveland-browns-terry-pluto.html?outputType=amp

over the years you have hit on some things and swung and missed on others I just say Just win baby

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, syd said:

over the years you have hit on some things and swung and missed on others I just say Just win baby

I agree with you syd. I didn't mean to be mean in my previous post. I plead for mercy as one of me recent really bad pet peeves is that this franchise seems to frequently say one thing and then after a regime change we hear the truth and are like WTF?

Let me just say that something smells fucked up with this group. My feeling it is a butt sex marriage between Depo and Haslam.

I think Berry is actually the right guy for the Browns.

Let's hope that whatever caused us to ass fuck the Bengals is something purposeful and continuing, and not just a "on any given Sunday", lucky.win.

I was in my glory that Monday night. 

[nickers]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

No, please don't misquote me. ShitMyPantski.....ShitPantski is the lazy version.

Tom, I made no backtrack on ShitMyPantski. It is his incompetence and lack of a spine that allows this shit. He is the one who is responsible for Depo running this team.

Just as I told you that Romeo Crennell and PhilSewage were coffee fetchers, so too all coordinators are coffee fetchers, and ShitMyPantski likewise is a coffee fetcher, and in greater detail a fellatio specialist on Depodesta.

Now, I concede your point that I blamed a lot of the gutless calls on SMP (ShitMyPantski) but have changed my aim to DePo. Fair enough.

However, SMP IS indeed a shit head coach. He certainly isn't taking the Browns anywhere.

There is no such thing as a "servant leader", any more than Lizzo is a svelte fatass.

So, to be clear. I concede I shifted blame, however, I am still on Point. SMP is not a leader, and Depo is running the entire Browns organization.

While I have my reservations about "ShitMYPantski"... I think this is stretching it a bit too far.... Ok do I believe Depo has a say in things?... Yes... But having this kind of autonomy to overturn plays called? ... Hmmm , I don't know... I mean yeah.... Anything is possible I suppose... But if he truly is having a fundamental and vital impact on game day coaching..... Then air this crap out... Other wise... This take sounds like imaginitave over reacting...

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I have always said it is Haslam. VIA Depodesta. Depo is the head coach. Debate closed.

You like the phrase "coffee fetcher" over the years.  I think you're confusing who that is in this whole thing today. The coffee fetcher isn't the guy with NFL experience calling plays - it's DePodesta who was attracted to Stefanski enough to bring him here twice as a finalist for the Head Coaching job.  If memory serves me right, much of that was because of the play calling background and leadership success Stefanski had with Minnesota (who won a playoff game vrs Drew Brees/Saints w/ Case Keenum at QB).  Coffee fetchers don't run football practices or design plays or stay at the office long after practice has ended breaking down film and situational tendencies of opponents.  But they can look at spread sheets and statistical data far easier than acting as a Leader of Men.  You're almost getting this; because you've acknowledged Andrew Berry.  Berry does show up to practices in shorts with an active presence in OTAs, minicamps, Training Camp and practices throughout the season.  He was an All Conference DB in college just like Stefanski who's a much tougher bastard than you give him credit for.  Not only that, Stefanski is also Ivy League smart enough to explain why he was always in the right place at the right time as a player to be well respected enough for the future he carved out for himself.  

To date, my biggest beef with Stefanski (and it might even be wrong) is I wanted him more involved with our Defense and Special Teams when mental errors were killing both units while leads slipped away.  As I pointed out to you (and you've dismissed it every time) - our problem hasn't been scoring points before the bye (ranked 6th overall at the time) - it was points allowed (ranking 26th before the bye).  

I'm not telling you not to be frustrated, you just get one scoop from Cleveland media that sometimes only like to share part of the truth to sell their angle on stuff. If Stefanski was in over his head, how did he take your version of the worst QB Cleveland ever drafted and get 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs out of him plus an 11-5 regular season record with playoffs in his very first year here?  That's a lot of miracles for the rookie Head Coach to accomplish.  There's something there; but Haslam is the owner.  Anything more need to be said?

 

[Browns149]

The thing I don’t like about analytics is, It doesn’t take into account CURRENT SITUATION.
 

And that is WAY WAY WAY more important then what happened years ago, when other people were playing and coaching

[syd]

22 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I agree with you syd. I didn't mean to be mean in my previous post. I plead for mercy as one of me recent really bad pet peeves is that this franchise seems to frequently say one thing and then after a regime change we hear the truth and are like WTF?

Let me just say that something smells fucked up with this group. My feeling it is a butt sex marriage between Depo and Haslam.

I think Berry is actually the right guy for the Browns.

Let's hope that whatever caused us to ass fuck the Bengals is something purposeful and continuing, and not just a "on any given Sunday", lucky.win.

I was in my glory that Monday night. 

all good with me We Gonna Kick The Living Shit out of whats left of miami

[syd]

WTF does this mean ? I believe a  20.00 bet will get you around 1600 for The BROWNS  to win the AFC

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

9 hours ago, Browns149 said:

The thing I don’t like about analytics is, It doesn’t take into account CURRENT SITUATION.
 

And that is WAY WAY WAY more important then what happened years ago, when other people were playing and coaching

The shortcomings of analytics/data are that there are so many possible variables and parameters in the performance of a man, team, staff, etc, that is is absolutely impossible to gather, let alone organize, tabulate and assign outcome potential to all of it. As a result, the person commanding the analytics decides what he wants to and what he doesn't want to look at.

As a man of science and inventor the immensity of even the simplest quests can boggle the mind. Very few individuals in my world are willing to consider all the variables in their study, and instead focus on only the ones that feed what they believe in.

In this day and age one would be a simpleton to not avail himself of the data manipulation technology we have today. At the same time, I think the salient issue in all this is the relationship between the rigidity of those numbers and the trust and flexibility given to a leader as to his ability to override them with his judgement. I believe this is our problem. I think DePodesta, having no skills in athletics, will not allow the Browns to veer from the analytics. I think doing so would leave Depodesta shitting his pants, not knowing what to do.

If I haven't said it, or if you can't figure it out; I hate the cocksucker. 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:55 AM, nickers said:

While I have my reservations about "ShitMYPantski"... I think this is stretching it a bit too far.... Ok do I believe Depo has a say in things?... Yes... But having this kind of autonomy to overturn plays called? ... Hmmm , I don't know... I mean yeah.... Anything is possible I suppose... But if he truly is having a fundamental and vital impact on game day coaching..... Then air this crap out... Other wise... This take sounds like imaginitave over reacting...

There is more than this one article that spells this out Nick. There are more than one insider who see's Depodesta as the overall head coach, play caller. It isn't a stretch Nick. I am the founder of a start-up in which investors, a shoe salesman, an IT guy and a marketing person thought it was a good idea to fire the inventor of the product, a tenured engineering professor. This is the magnitude of ego and stupidity of people with mega-money. To normal guys this seems far fetched, but to them? Not at all.