Colts/Vikings officiating

[Neo]

Somebody call the police, the Vikings got absolutely violated by the officials in that game, I can care less about either team but that absolutely HORRIBLE😲 I'm surprised the fans didn't burn that place to the ground.

[Axe]

largest comeback in NFL history

[Neo]

20 minutes ago, Axe said:

largest comeback in NFL history

They still had 2 touchdowns wiped off the board that were clearly touchdowns all day long. They should fire every official that called that game immediately after the game was over.

[mjp28]

The game must have been rigged, that's it rigged.  Has to be.  Refs 107 and 93 were clearly winking at each other. 

Oh yeah stop the steal, right now.                      

 

[Dutch Oven]

Poor Matt Ryan.

Starting QB for teams blowing the largest regular season AND Super Bowl lead in NFL history.

[tiamat63]

That, I believe defenseless receiver call, that Gilmore got slapped with was bullshit. 

Kirk hung JJ out to dry against a trap call. That isn't a defenseless receiver, that's your QB almost getting you killed. 

[SdBacker80]

The unnecessary roughness fall on the QB (on a sack) rule needs to be reviewed next year.  I’ve seen too many of these calls even when the defender posts an arm to limit his weight on the QB….which btw is very dangerous for the defender (dislocations). 

[Neo]

57 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

That, I believe defenseless receiver call, that Gilmore got slapped with was bullshit. 

Kirk hung JJ out to dry against a trap call. That isn't a defenseless receiver, that's your QB almost getting you killed. 

???

I watched the replay two or three times and Gilmore put his helmet under the chin of Jefferson while he was in mid-air, you could see his chin strap up around his nose. Isn't that the very definition of defenseless receiver? 

[tiamat63]

51 minutes ago, Neo said:

???

I watched the replay two or three times and Gilmore put his helmet under the chin of Jefferson while he was in mid-air, you could see his chin strap up around his nose. Isn't that the very definition of defenseless receiver? 

 There's almost always going to be a hint of helmet contact on damn near any collision like that.  It's the nature of the size of the bucket, my guy.   If you go to put your shoulder and head into a receivers chest to separate the ball, chances are you're going to get the tiniest piece of incidental helmet contact.    Anyone who has ever played, damn near regardless of the level, will tell you the exact same thing.    The key is to not use the crown to lead.  Then I might be able to support the zebras throwing laundry.

 It was a great play by Gilmore. A garbage read and throw by Kirk that was rewarded by not being able to do, what should give any QB and WR pause when trying some risky/dumb bullshit - getting your teammate absolutely splattered.  

[Neo]

30 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 There's almost always going to be a hint of helmet contact on damn near any collision like that.  It's the nature of the size of the bucket, my guy.   If you go to put your shoulder and head into a receivers chest to separate the ball, chances are you're going to get the tiniest piece of incidental helmet contact.    Anyone who has ever played, damn near regardless of the level, will tell you the exact same thing.    The key is to not use the crown to lead.  Then I might be able to support the zebras throwing laundry.

 It was a great play by Gilmore. A garbage read and throw by Kirk that was rewarded by not being able to do, what should give any QB and WR pause when trying some risky/dumb bullshit - getting your teammate absolutely splattered.  

Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.

[Dutch Oven]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but that to me is a clean hit. He basically leads with his shoulder to the WRs stomach in an attempt to stay far away from his head. 

[Neo]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Yeah, I'm sorry, but that to me is a clean hit. He basically leads with his shoulder to the WRs stomach in an attempt to stay far away from his head. 

But what about the other element of the rule, he never had time to establish himself as a runner. He could have waited for him to land then delivered the hit.

[tiamat63]

33 minutes ago, Neo said:

Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.

 

 With the .gif you just posted, there looks to be almost zero helmet contact now.   So no, there is no "just kidding" from me.      Gilmore's hands were in the chest of JJ, no leading with the helmet.   Flat out I'm going to separate the WR from the ball as a DB,  especially with these kids who are pure athletes and strong as hell. Popping that ball out is harder than ever I'm sure. And I'm going to set the tone that you don't hang your WR's out to dry.    Wait for him to "establish as a runner" is that new aged bullshit which only punishes defenses for offenses playing poorly.    I'm young enough to be half the age of most of this board, but I'm old enough to know what good, hard hitting and clean football used to be.       But like you said, you didn't play.  

 

edit:  And one more thing about 'defenseless receiver'.   It's a thing, but this isn't that.    WR's are reading coverage along with their QB, so if you're putting yourself in a spot to go for a catch that you know shouldn't be coming your way based on coverage, and as a WR you know where the DB's are at (95% of the time) then you're acknowledging the increased risk of the attempt and still trying to make the play.    Defenseless means you didn't have a choice to protect yourself at almost any point in the play.  

 Crushing a receiver and blindsiding him if he's removed from, away from or well after the play would qualify as actually defenseless.   What you're seeing here is 'offense scores points, people like excitement, excitement = eyes'      Not good football in the least.     And I would absolutely expect the NFL to take a long look at it, along with the sacks/roughing the passer, this upcoming off season.   Just because it's 'the rule', doesn't make it good.

 

 

[Neo]

5 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

hat new aged bullshit which only punishes defenses for offenses playing poorly.

But it's still in the rule book. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you get to ignore it.

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, Neo said:

But it's still in the rule book. 

Again, that's not in question here.       But the rule book, in order to establish as a runner, means I have to allow him to not only catch the ball but then permit the WR space to make a football move which then makes it a catch AND him as a runner.  Otherwise if his two feet land and the ball is knocked loose, it's not a fumble because he hasn't executed a 'football move' to clearly establish both possession AND to be a runner.

 

  Yeah, fuck that entirely.   Leave it to the NFL to not be able to even clearly understand their own rules on what's a catch, what's a fumble, who's a runner, etc etc.      I know what good football is.  What Gilmore got slapped with ain't that.  

 

[Neo]

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Yeah, fuck that entirely.

Yeah, fuck the rule book. You know, I'm so very close to saying "fuck football" all together. To think my 20+ years of misery as a Browns fan was at the hands of some zebra's. Have we all forgotten about Bottle Gate? Because that Minnisota game had shades of Bottle Gate, no fuck that, it had Bottle Gate written all over it.

If that same play was a Browns receiver and the play meant the difference from going to the playoffs or going home, I guaranfuckintee you would be crying about the rule book.

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, Neo said:

 

If that same play was a Browns receiver and the play meant the difference from going to the playoffs or going home, I guaranfuckintee you would be crying about the rule book.

 

Absolutely not.  I maintain my integrity by maintaining my consistency.     If the Browns lost because our QB continuously made bad reads and tossed the ball into coverage where it had no place being, then we wouldn't be "going home" because of a lack of laundry.  We'd be going home because of a lack of execution. Then I'd rightfully breakdown the missed opportunities by our QB and offense, just like I've always done, even in wins.      I'd shrug and say "it is what it is".  Because I value the game itself above all.  

 

And there's where we'll leave off with this conversation.  

 

 

[SdBacker80]

By rule he was defenseless.  

But Was Gilmore’s contact “unnecessary” by rule.  He threw a shoulder and he launched but he was hitting a higher target. The act of leaving his feet and throwing the shoulder…might be the factor here. 
 

If he goes lower and wraps and plants the WR…maybe it is really unnecessary.  Thinking double leg takedown wrestling style.  If he wraps and rolls rugby style - definitely not - but does he run the risk of not making the tackle.

I side toward no penalty but not really an egregious no call or call IMO

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Don't take this the wrong way but, you don't honestly believe that do you? You're fucking with me, right? I know you're going to come on here later and say "Aww I was just pullin' your chain". I am just an average fan who has never played the game, you are supposed to be the board's resident football guru. When I look at the video, it matches what the rule states. So I am actually hoping you come on here and "HAHA, Gotcha!" Because I am tired of the feeling of I'm the only one who actually watches these games and see's this stuff. Justin Jefferson's feet were two feet off the ground when Gilmore put his helmet under chin.

Watch 70s football. Vicious hits and none of this helmet bullshit.

It is not natural to lead with your head. These fucking 60 level IQ imbeciles are taught to do this starting in peepee football. If they stopped teaching this shit today, It would take 20 years for it to filter this shit out.

[Neo]

I think this thread has run it's course but I will add just one last thing. NFL rules of a completed catch state a receiver must maintain control with two feet down inbounds while the receiver has the right to try to catch it. There are exceptions such as being shoved out of bounds but Justin Jefferson is clearly inbounds and catches the ball mid air and is lit up not having the chance to complete the catch. OK, I'll give you the hit itself was not dirty but there is clearly a foul here. It may have been called wrong on the field but you can't tell me there is no penalty here.

[calfoxwc]

Leading with the head is the foul. Plain and simple. and extremely dangerous.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

Leading with the head is the foul. Plain and simple. and extremely dangerous.

I’m not seeing the leading with head part…he actually led with the shoulder 

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’m not seeing the leading with head part…he actually led with the shoulder 

He didn't.

He actually did a good job not using his head AND avoiding the WRs head. 

[Neo]

So what I gather from the responses is Stephan Gilmore is this technically sound corner who made great play, but he is incapable of waiting another half second to knock the ball out of his hand or deliver the exact same hit only the guy was able to land on his feet. I've seen many times a guy running across the field and get destroyed as soon as he gets his hands on it and all is good. What is Jefferson supposed to do two feet off the ground? This league tends to give the offensive player the benefit of doubt but what some of you are saying is Jefferson has no right and the DB is the only one allowed to make that play even though you are ignoring the obvious that he was defenseless.  The league called it a foul, it's in the rule book as a foul and they made it pretty clear that it is a foul, but not you guys.🤣

What are you going to tell me next that Bottle Gate wasn't actually bullshit and it was a good call? What about the obvious fumble  scoop and score by Minnesota that they wiped off the board, was that a good call too?😁😂

[TypicalBrowns50]

I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it

[Neo]

41 minutes ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

I think this game shows instances of the league being rigged. It happens every week and this was a blatant example of them not even trying to hide it

PERFECT coverage lol 🤣

 

[Bob806]

I don't think Josh Allen scored on Saturday night either. Said he "broke the plane" but the ball ended up around the 3 yard line.

Imagine trying to explain these rules to a foreigner. Two feet in, one elbow, a knee, surviving the ground, the ground can't cause a fumble, etc etc.

I maintain that instant replay reviews have damaged the NFL officiating nearly beyond repair. But they'll never go back on it now.

[mjp28]

38 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I don't think Josh Allen scored on Saturday night either. Said he "broke the plane" but the ball ended up around the 3 yard line.

Imagine trying to explain these rules to a foreigner. Two feet in, one elbow, a knee, surviving the ground, the ground can't cause a fumble, etc etc.

I maintain that instant replay reviews have damaged the NFL officiating nearly beyond repair. But they'll never go back on it now.

One knee  =  two feet.   

One foot in in college but two feet in professional football.   And "probably " one of the biggest sports rulebooks in all sports.

[SdBacker80]

10 hours ago, Neo said:

PERFECT coverage lol 🤣

 

Horrible no call.  Our household wasn’t complaining though. 

[jrb12711]

This weekend was arguably the worst weekend of officiating I've seen in a long, long time. That missed PI was a few plays before the side judge told scary Terry twice he was good only to throw an illegal formation flag.

I've tried to say it for years and always get called a tin foil wearer. The reality of the situation is that the NFL has a huge problem with this crap and they (and the incompetent refs) refuse to budge. Remember the one year PI was reviewable and the refs silently revolted because they were little babies who didn't like their authority questioned? And then the rule just went away Refs need a huge overhaul and it's just not going to happen. The NFL needs to grow some balls and say this is going to happen whether you like it or not. The way this shit decides game is at all time high.