Someone Must Be Giving Haslam/Depodesta Bad Advice/Juju!

[nickers]

Okay... So according to many pundits(air heads) Whomever...(I won't go through them all) Are pushing a theme or a scenario by which the Browns will trade Chubb to a suitor for Ex amount of picks,draft capital.. What have you.. I happen to think this is a shitty idea.. In my mind... Chubb is the perfect identity for Cleveland. While Desaun Watson may be talented(remains to be seen) Chubb is a proven bet... Chubb stays healthy and you get a 1,000 yrds annually... Steady production... While I get the yeah we can do RPO with Watson and go the Hunt ,Johnson Ford route... But look whats happening in Baltimore... Where it appears an ugly divorce is brewing , prefaced by the fact Greg Roman was terminated... So Lamar Jackson has to be feeling weird... I'm for keeping Chubb and letting Watsons game evolve around him if thats at all possible.... I really don't need to see another rebuild...

[syd]

it's just that time of year they need something to talk about 

[ballpeen]

10 hours ago, nickers said:

Okay... So according to many pundits(air heads) Whomever...(I won't go through them all) Are pushing a theme or a scenario by which the Browns will trade Chubb to a suitor for Ex amount of picks,draft capital.. What have you.. I happen to think this is a shitty idea.. In my mind... Chubb is the perfect identity for Cleveland. While Desaun Watson may be talented(remains to be seen) Chubb is a proven bet... Chubb stays healthy and you get a 1,000 yrds annually... Steady production... While I get the yeah we can do RPO with Watson and go the Hunt ,Johnson Ford route... But look whats happening in Baltimore... Where it appears an ugly divorce is brewing , prefaced by the fact Greg Roman was terminated... So Lamar Jackson has to be feeling weird... I'm for keeping Chubb and letting Watsons game evolve around him if thats at all possible.... I really don't need to see another rebuild...

I agree with Syd that it is probably just talk.

 

I'd be open to trading Chubb if the offer was right.  He is getting old by back standards and the game is not going to evolve around him.  Backs are also dime a dozen players if you have a decent O line.

[Orion]

OK......Back on my soapbox.  

Who on the Browns has a better attitude than Chubb?  A better work ethic?  Better on field production?  A better team mate?  Who's a better role model than Chubb?

Does Chubb not exemplify everything that you would want in a Cleveland Brown football player?  Right down to handing the ref the football after a 90 yard TD run?

How do you trade that player away?  What statement would the team be making if they were to do that?  Especially considering the PR situation their trading for Watson has produced.  I vote, No More Paul Warfield Stuff please.

[ballpeen]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

OK......Back on my soapbox.  

Who on the Browns has a better attitude than Chubb?  A better work ethic?  Better on field production?  A better team mate?  Who's a better role model than Chubb?

Does Chubb not exemplify everything that you would want in a Cleveland Brown football player?  Right down to handing the ref the football after a 90 yard TD run?

How do you trade that player away?  What statement would the team be making if they were to do that?  Especially considering the PR situation their trading for Watson has produced.  I vote, No More Paul Warfield Stuff please.

I don't disagree.

 

I guess from a football standpoint, those things don't matter all that much.  To us, Chubb is untradable...around the league teams might offer a 3rd- 4th round pick at best.

 

Add in the O is going to change and Nicks carries are going to drop....like maybe 20%.  Carries for backs around the league have dropped.  We still talk about 1000 yards as something special.  Big deal.  That is under 60 yards a game.

[Flugel]

3 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I don't disagree.

 

I guess from a football standpoint, those things don't matter all that much.  To us, Chubb is untradable...around the league teams might offer a 3rd- 4th round pick at best.

 

Add in the O is going to change and Nicks carries are going to drop....like maybe 20%.  Carries for backs around the league have dropped.  We still talk about 1000 yards as something special.  Big deal.  That is under 60 yards a game.

Rushing for 1000 yards back when they only played 12 games (and later 14 games) was very special IMO.  Now that GREED is more important than player safety and records - rushing for 1000 yards in 17 starts isn't any big deal. You're spot on about the way OTHER teams will be looking at Chubb.  They the see wear and tear of Chubb starting 4 years in the SEC + 5 years of starting in Cleveland before they're willing to give up multiple picks and a huge salary.  That's FINE with me because I'd rather keep the QUIET leader of this team right where he belongs.  Even better, he WANTS to be in Cleveland.  Orion already did an excellent job of explaining how many ways this guy means everything in Cleveland.  If this Owner and FO trades away this unique and special player - What the Flock of Seagulls are we rooting for here?  

 

[ballpeen]

Well said, but if someone offered a 1st, I would take it.

[Orion]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

Well said, but if someone offered a 1st, I would take it.

Sadly, yes.  

[nickers]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

Sadly, yes.  

Nope... Their 1st in my eyes will never equal what Chubb has given to this team..

[Dutch Oven]

I hate the idea that the Browns might trade Nick Chubb. My two Browns jerseys are both #24.

I also think a good portion of NFL fans couldn't pick out a RB on the Chiefs or the Eagles roster in a police lineup. 

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

Well said, but if someone offered a 1st, I would take it.

Risky risky risky. 

As Browns fans we all know a 1st round pick is no guarantee, no sure thing. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

Well said, but if someone offered a 1st, I would take it.

Chubb wasn't even our 1st choice in round 2.  Believe it or not, it was Austin Corbett before we got Chubb a few slots later. While Corbett never justified the 33rd overall pick, he ended up starting at RG for the Super Bowl Champion LA Rams.

The last 2 first picks of this FO were Wills and Newsome.  Last season, Emerson actually outplayed Newsome to the extent that Newsome ended up covering the slot receiver.  I think the reason for that is Emerson has better press coverage assets/frame/skills; so they preferred him up on the LOS rather than whoever lines up as a slot/flanker off the LOS.  If that's truly the case, we have a 3rd round pick outplaying a 1st round pick unless it's just another disappointing result/coincidence of being under the influence of Joe Woods.  Either is possible I suppose.  

With the track record of this FO, I don't want to kick Nick Chubb (our top scoring weapon and valuable leader by example) outta here for a guy that might pan out.  I will confess if we could land the one of the best DTs in this draft or get a shot at a special certain WR out of Ohio State- I would at least be tempted.  This franchise needs a bright spot; and Chubb been that and a lot more.  Let's reward this guy with a good draft that puts more keepers on the roster and betters the team around him.  It's okay to demand more from those doing the drafting if people want us competing with the teams in our division that go to the playoffs or Super Bowl far more frequently.  

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, Bob806 said:

Risky risky risky. 

As Browns fans we all know a 1st round pick is no guarantee, no sure thing. 

That is another issue, but even Nick isn't a sure thing, meaning that age, usage, and injury could all impact that.

 

For the record, I am not advocating that we trade the guy.  I am just at a point(have been) that I don't like or root for players more than the team.  I like some players more than others, and Nick would be one of those, but not so much that I would keep him or anyone else over what might make the team better.

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

That is another issue, but even Nick isn't a sure thing, meaning that age, usage, and injury could all impact that.

 

For the record, I am not advocating that we trade the guy.  I am just at a point(have been) that I don't like or root for players more than the team.  I like some players more than others, and Nick would be one of those, but not so much that I would keep him or anyone else over what might make the team better.

True, but it seems to me he has more mileage left in the tank. He's the main man, but the Browns don't run him to death like say a Derrick Henry. 

75 career games, 1210 carries (roughly 16/game), see the link below. I'm hoping we get to enjoy Chubb for a few more seasons. 

Chubb stats

[SdBacker80]

He’s not a 1000 yard rusher he’s 1500 yard rusher with a moronic play caller that doesn’t feature him enough.

He averages 5 yards a carry over multiple seasons- a quick look around the league- that is  “unique” I’d call him “special” definitely not someone/something you replace easily. 
 

And he’s just a consummate professional in a day and age with spoiled talent 

 

[ballpeen]

I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change.  it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.

 

It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.

[ballpeen]

3 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

He’s not a 1000 yard rusher he’s 1500 yard rusher with a moronic play caller that doesn’t feature him enough.

He averages 5 yards a carry over multiple seasons- a quick look around the league- that is  “unique” I’d call him “special” definitely not someone/something you replace easily. 
 

And he’s just a consummate professional in a day and age with spoiled talent 

 

Think what you want, but Stefanski is going to get more 'moronic" in your view because we didn't pay Watson what we paid to have him hand the ball off to Nick Chubb 25-30 times a game.

[Dutch Oven]

28 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change.  it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.

 

It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.

Hence, why I mentioned that most people have no idea who Philly or KC's RBs are. 

That could very well be the template for the Browns future on offense.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hence, why I mentioned that most people have no idea who Philly or KC's RBs are. 

That could very well be the template for the Browns future on offense.

Just thinking out loud here.  Even scarier - I'm owning it.  Right now, KC's 7th round RB Isiah Pacheco looks like he's better than their former 1st round RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire.

In an entirely different offense, Cleveland's offense really counts on it's running game to set up everything else.  Consequently, they've paid very generous contracts to Chubb and Hunt. Unfortunately, it looked like Hunt had about 30 lbs of cement in each cleat last year.  That might have been why he was looking down at the ground instead of what was in front of him.  IMO, he just didn't look like the same player.

[Orion]

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

the O is going to change

We know that Depo wants 13 yard passes and has no use for 4 yard runs.  So don't be surprised if they don't use FA to set up a WR pick at 43.  

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

We know that Depo wants 13 yard passes and has no use for 4 yard runs.  So don't be surprised if they don't use FA to set up a WR pick at 43.  

I don't know about having no use, but I agree, and it isn't just Depo.  It's spreading league wide.  Dutch brought up KC's backs.  Philly too.  Gainwell is one of the lead backs, and he is just a guy.

 

If you go back and look at the last several SB winners, none had what one would consider a lead back who carried the team.  You might have to go back 10 years with the Bus in Seattle.  Shoot, look at the Patriots. They have never had a back who simply stands out.

 

We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game.  It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.

[ballpeen]

Oh, I agree that we might look to sign a DT in free agency and draft a WR.  To me it makes some sense.

 

First, I think it is easier to find a DT who is good enough in FA over a WR who is good enough.   Especially when considering price point for such players.

Next, I think it is more likely to find a rookie receiver in the 2nd round who can make an immediate impact over finding a DT in the 2nd who makes impact.

 

I also think everybody in Berea knows their jobs are on the line and aren't going to be willing to make their stand with a rookie DT and will rather go with some vet who is proven to some degree.  We don't need a top 10% DT, we just need a solid player to see big improvements.

 

Now that I have said all of that, we might do the opposite.  LOL

[Orion]

1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game.  It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.

I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team.  But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort.  I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome.  (along with Mack & Byner)   We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.

I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!

If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?  

[SdBacker80]

I’m Not asking for a carry quota…I would like to see when we are in one score/tied games in the second half (often times last year we were just a score down) we don’t completely abandon the run game.  Our play caller panics way too much in this situations.   
 

And If we are getting 5/6 yards a carry I’d like to stick with that formula more often than not.  If the other team isn’t going to take something away- make them pay the price…don’t try to get cute 

[nickers]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I’m Not asking for a carry quota…I would like to see when we are in one score/tied games in the second half (often times last year we were just a score down) we don’t completely abandon the run game.  Our play caller panics way too much in this situations.   
 

And If we are getting 5/6 yards a carry I’d like to stick with that formula more often than not.  If the other team isn’t going to take something away- make them pay the price…don’t try to get cute 

Basically saying... There's a time to be aggressive/conservative... But in the meantime.. Let's control the game with whats working...

[ballpeen]

When we get up by 28, I am all for running the ball and killing clock.

[Dutch Oven]

What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.

Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades. 

[Flugel]

19 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.

Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades. 

Draft-wise I have to agree.   That said, they've given new contracts to both veteran Guards in the last year or 2.  They also just very generously extended Conklin's contract so that he'll finish his career in Cleveland. When healthy, he's an awesome run blocker at that RT spot. On the other hand, he's been pretty banged up the last 2 years where he missed starts and played through pain/injury when he returned.  That was kind of risky.  The weakest guy on the Oline is the one this FO drafted.  On the defensive line, every body they drafted weren't keepers except maybe Winfrey.  To get a healthy cap, this FO is going to have to start getting more picks right rather than leaning so much on FA vets all the time.  

Every time we talk draft now, people are "yeah, we can just fill the DT spot with a FA or 2."  Seems to me they tried to with Tavon Bryan - how'd that work?  He was a 1st round draft pick that disappointed Jax so we didn't have to compete too hard to land him.  Nobody wanted him except this Cleveland team that didn't value the DT position.  Even worse, he costs a lot more against the salary cap than a rookie does.  

I'm seeing a lot of fast twitch knee jerk from this FO.  I don't get the feeling they have a plan in place.  And if it's to trade the biggest scoring threat we have built the entire offense around - Welcome to another Poseiden Adventure!

[gumby73]

seen nothing that points to Chubb & Ford can't handle the running game duties..

here's the bigger problem/ juju/De-pu'...  https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Cleveland-Browns-Lead-The-League-In-Expensive-Talent-204883692/

Pocic vs. Nick Harris//  Teller vs Froholdt// (I've seen a 3rd for Teller). Both equal= Bill Callahan.   

Can't pay Hunt/Haeg nor JJ3 is not a 11M safety/ Can't pay LB Deion Jones 15M/ but, I'd consider keeping Ragland  

Restruct whatever, but Berry needs to balance some game checks 

[Bob806]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team.  But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort.  I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome.  (along with Mack & Byner)   We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.

I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!

If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?  

The team who is better at stopping the run.

Ok, it's just 1 game as an example, but look at Cincy @ Buffalo in the divisional round. Two really good QBs, Cincy certainly has the edge at WR there. But in the end, it was Cincy's ground attack with Mixon & Perine that enabled a 27-10 victory. Buffalo became so reliant on Allen's legs & arm they died on it. The Bills simply cannot run the ball.

I don't think the Browns are too far away from being a serious contender. Shore up that run D, nab a speedy sure handed receiver, use Chubb/Ford/Felton and they're a threat (I excluded Hunt, I think he's a goner).