Pluto: How I've Heard The Browns Are Rebuilding Offense For Watson

[ballpeen]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

You would argue?

NO WAY! 😉

Just doing my thing

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Nicely put!  Let's hope the Big Man on the blind side of QB (Wills) makes standing in the pocket doable.  If he does, I love what's possible for Watson.  

Sometimes we need to remember we're only as good as what the organization puts in place for their QBs. Once upon a time a ton of money was invested in the Titanic - only to steer that sucker right into a huge glacier.  "Yeah but it was dark outside!"     Try to imagine how dark it can get inside the pocket if you don't have the right man on the edge protecting the edge the blind side of QB.  The good news is this QB only has 1 blind side.  It IS Cleveland so I do have to say the outrageous.

All those years we had a HOF career unfolding at Left Tackle, our FO couldn't tell the difference between a Brandon Weeden and a Russell Wilson leading up to the draft.

We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills.  Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens.  Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all. 
 

Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better.  Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position.  In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play. 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills.  Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens.  Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all. 
 

Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better.  Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position.  In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play. 

Thanks SdB - You nailed it! 

I have an idea that might not sound good at first.  Here it is though.  I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities.  You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking.  It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on.  Worth a try????

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

Thanks SdB - You nailed it! 

I have an idea that might not sound good at first.  Here it is though.  I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities.  You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking.  It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on.  Worth a try????

I like it for the reasons you mentioned. If you don’t like it you are probably opposed to taking out an actual pass catching scoring threat and/or limits what you can call. 

Watt is a hustle sack kinda guy…how many times over the years has he got to our guy just by chasing and making a play after the initial pass rush move was shut down?  Make him go around a 6’8” guy- maybe the extra second makes the difference.  They just gave Highsmith a bunch of money maybe they think he is comparable to Watt at this point in Watts career.   Tough matchup probably on either side 

[ballpeen]

16 hours ago, Flugel said:

Thanks SdB - You nailed it! 

I have an idea that might not sound good at first.  Here it is though.  I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities.  You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking.  It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on.  Worth a try????

Jones probably has hands.  How good they are is the question.  I don't think he has ever caught a pass.  Maybe in HS or something like that.

[Flugel]

8 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Jones probably has hands.  How good they are is the question.  I don't think he has ever caught a pass.  Maybe in HS or something like that.

Usually guys that are productive BIG men on the basketball court from constantly catching passes in traffic - don't have stone hands or struggle with hand-eye coordination.  For example, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzales.  Having said that, I appreciate you reminding me there's always an exception to usually...

[gumby73]

Watson told Stefanski in the off-season that he’d like more autonomy on the field, and his coaches agreed.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2023/07/how-deshaun-watson-is-running-the-show-more-on-offense-this-season-mary-kay-cabot.html

Kevin. get the play call in, on time to do so.

 

 

[Orion]

"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"

----

That's what I like to hear.  Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.  

[Flugel]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:09 PM, Orion said:

"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"

----

That's what I like to hear.  Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.  

Very good point!  The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend?   Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort. 

I'd like to see some improvements to the receiving routes in the passing tree. The whole design of it all hasn't really impressed me yet.  That said, I kind of dig the addition of Musgrave to the offensive coaching staff.  I have a feeling we'll see some improvements in the design of the offense - which would help make the play-calling a little better and easier IMO.  

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend?   Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort. 

Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required.  Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder.  And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.

We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache).  He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down.  So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle.  To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players.  I mean, this is the BIG leagues.  Get big league players.

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required.  Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder.  And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.

We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache).  He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down.  So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle.  To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players.  I mean, this is the BIG leagues.  Get big league players.

I like the points you made so thanks!  Having said that, I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski.  IMO, it's all in the week of preparation.  When you practice, you have your scout team defense expose your offense to formations the Browns may want to be checking out of in the game the coming week.  Expose them to the situations. You talk about it in offensive meetings and position group meetings.  Expose the offense to formations and alignments they may be seeing on Sunday throughout the week.  By the end of the week, the coach will have a good idea of what offensive formations and plays he's comfortable switching to; and which ones they're not ready for yet.  If they study opponent's tendencies - they'll have a good idea about what they're gonna see to prepare for during practice.  Nothing better than consistently seeing a team that looks well prepared on Sundays.  In 1986 with Lindy Infante, there wasn't an alignment the Browns couldn't audible against.  That was fun to watch.  

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski. 

And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'.  Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker.  I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball.   Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing.  At least that's how I interpreted it.  

[Flugel]

Just now, Orion said:

And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'.  Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker.  I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball.   Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing.  At least that's how I interpreted it.  

Yeah, I think you're right with that.  I think there were parts of Baker's game Stef liked but not enough to build something up with long term together.  Like the nice job Stefanski did with Jacoby Brissett - he also got a TD:INT ratio of 26:8 out of Baker the year the Browns went 11-5 in 2020.  This past year, he helped Jacoby lead an offense that averaged about 28 points a game for a long stretch of his 11 starts.  In those ways with those 2 QBs, he leaned heavily on the running game and kept things safe with the QBs (like you alluded to with Stef keeping the game out of Baker's hands).  It's not a balanced attack, which makes it tough to compete with the elite QBs/passing games that go deep into the playoffs.  Once they get up on you by 2 TDs - you realize what you're missing to be at that level.

Today, the Browns have a QB they heavily invested in because they really believe he's that 'field general' you speak of.  He's a guy that led Houston to the playoffs in his first years 2 years of the 3 he started there.  This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB.  I'm really hoping they've done this.  

 

[Orion]

29 minutes ago, Flugel said:

This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB.  I'm really hoping they've done this.  

I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes.  And that's a big part of the passing game.  Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball.  We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.

I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots.  I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play."  Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands.  -  We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.

[Flugel]

54 minutes ago, Orion said:

I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes.  And that's a big part of the passing game.  Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball.  We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.

I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots.  I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play."  Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands.  -  We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.

I totally agree, nothing beats the lens from above or up in the stands.  That's a great idea about Tia breaking down the plays!   Is this the year it finally all comes together for us?   

[Orion]

26 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Is this the year it finally all comes together for us?   

Man I hope so.  I used to say that I wanna see us win a super bowl before I die...but I'm not going to say that any more because of the recent passing of long time Browns fans from this board and I just now feel that that is kinda' selfish of me.  I mean, why me and not Tour, Gipper, Stan, etc.?  So, I would now say 'I hope so' for all Browns fans around the world.  Why not this year?  

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Orion said:

Man I hope so.  I used to say that I wanna see us win a super bowl before I die...but I'm not going to say that any more because of the recent passing of long time Browns fans from this board and I just now feel that that is kinda' selfish of me.  I mean, why me and not Tour, Gipper, Stan, etc.?  So, I would now say 'I hope so' for all Browns fans around the world.  Why not this year?  

Well said!  I think those guys you mentioned would want you to have that mentality; because they've shared it with you/us as long as they could.  In doing so, we're still talking about each of these guys today.  It's the passion and culture we shared from all around the country.  IMO, it's second to none!  

I remember the day after my dad had his hospice bed set-up at his home, the Browns were playing at Indy.  The Browns being the Browns had trouble crossing the 50 yard line most of the day against the 31st ranked defense against the run.  They were down by about 10 points midway through the 4th quarter with 4th and 1 at the Indy 39 yard line.  Pat Shurmur didn't hesitate to put the punter out there and gift wrap a touchback for Indy.  I thought my dad was sleeping; and all of a sudden I hear "WHAT A PUSSY!  I'm so sorry I ever got you and your brother into this team. I got to see this team win Championships and I've misled both of you." 

I was the youngest of 3 and my parents got divorced when I was 8. This meant we saw our dad on weekends, which became a lot of football and the Browns.  I shared that to help you understand the reply I gave him. I said something along the of, we wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Football and the Browns were the common bond we all needed. You started taking us to football games once a year in Cleveland (4-4.5 hours away).  You had the BNI subscriptions that kept us updated. Best of all, you put a Godzilla sized antenna up that got us feeds from as far away as Ottawa Canada commentated in French before satellite TV.  We got to see the Kardiac Kids come from behind to win countless games in the last 2 minutes. Besides, I LOVE rollercoasters."

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if the Browns already won a Super Bowl or 2 - if I wouldn't have the attitude like GB or Pittsburgh fans that don't really even get excited about the draft the way we do (when we have draft picks).  They just expect excellence and remind us in their subtle way they don't need to worry about he draft like we need to. If one of them is a long time friend that can't wait to bust my chops - he'll say "You're not excited Flugel!  You're just nervous they're gonna draft another Bandon Weeden instead of Russell Wilson to keep all the dawgs in the basement. Your team didn't even realize what Roethlisberger could have done for them instead of to them..."    

It doesn't matter, our passion for this team is unconditional.  Once again I'm looking forward to the season ahead.  Why not this year?

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Well said!  I think those guys you mentioned would want you to have that mentality; because they've shared it with you/us as long as they could.  In doing so, we're still talking about each of these guys today.  It's the passion and culture we shared from all around the country.  IMO, it's second to none!  

I remember the day after my dad had his hospice bed set-up at his home, the Browns were playing at Indy.  The Browns being the Browns had trouble crossing the 50 yard line most of the day against the 31st ranked defense against the run.  They were down by about 10 points midway through the 4th quarter with 4th and 1 at the Indy 39 yard line.  Pat Shurmur didn't hesitate to put the punter out there and gift wrap a touchback for Indy.  I thought my dad was sleeping; and all of a sudden I hear "WHAT A PUSSY!  I'm so sorry I ever got you and your brother into this team. I got to see this team win Championships and I've misled both of you." 

I was the youngest of 3 and my parents got divorced when I was 8. This meant we saw our dad on weekends, which became a lot of football and the Browns.  I shared that to help you understand the reply I gave him. I said something along the of, we wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Football and the Browns were the common bond we all needed. You started taking us to football games once a year in Cleveland (4-4.5 hours away).  You had the BNI subscriptions that kept us updated. Best of all, you put a Godzilla sized antenna up that got us feeds from as far away as Ottawa Canada commentated in French before satellite TV.  We got to see the Kardiac Kids come from behind to win countless games in the last 2 minutes. Besides, I LOVE rollercoasters."

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if the Browns already won a Super Bowl or 2 - if I wouldn't have the attitude like GB or Pittsburgh fans that don't really even get excited about the draft the way we do (when we have draft picks).  They just expect excellence and remind us in their subtle way they don't need to worry about he draft like we need to. If one of them is a long time friend that can't wait to bust my chops - he'll say "You're not excited Flugel!  You're just nervous they're gonna draft another Bandon Weeden instead of Russell Wilson to keep all the dawgs in the basement. Your team didn't even realize what Roethlisberger could have done for them instead of to them..."    

It doesn't matter, our passion for this team is unconditional.  Once again I'm looking forward to the season ahead.  Why not this year?

Like you , I had a similar situation growing up... My parents divorced when I was 4 years old.. People ask me why I follow the Browns and are so passionate about them..Like you.. I spent my weekends at Pops place.. Besides DNA , Browns football bonded us... I would give anything just about to have those Sundays with Pop back...

[Orion]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

I'm so sorry I ever got you and your brother into this team. I got to see this team win Championships and I've misled both of you."

You can't buy that kind of compassion.

My wife told me regarding my two grandboys, "Don't you dare make those boys Browns fans and set them up for a lifetime of disappointment!"

[TexasAg1969]

20 hours ago, Orion said:

Man I hope so.  I used to say that I wanna see us win a super bowl before I die...but I'm not going to say that any more because of the recent passing of long time Browns fans from this board and I just now feel that that is kinda' selfish of me.  I mean, why me and not Tour, Gipper, Stan, etc.?  So, I would now say 'I hope so' for all Browns fans around the world.  Why not this year?  

Pretty much what I say to my old A&M friends whose fathers (like mine) were freshmen and sophs mostly when A&M won its last football N.C. in 1939. But we damn sure win it every August!🤗

And thank you women's basketball for the 2011 N.C. I got the t-shirt and wear it proudly. 👍👍😁

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Pretty much what I say to my old A&M friends whose fathers (like mine) were freshmen and sophs mostly when A&M won its last football N.C. in 1939. But we damn sure win it every August!🤗

And thank you women's basketball for the 2011 N.C. I got the t-shirt and wear it proudly. 👍👍😁

And I thought Syracuse was prehistoric with their N.C. near the end of the 50s.  Thanks for making me feel so much better about that Aggies!  We used to have a guy in the basement of our fraternity house that became our go-to guy when we thought we had a bad day.  It became an unwritten rule, if you had a bad day go talk to Andy Capone because, no matter what, your probably gonna hear 10-15 reasons why his day was far worse.  He looked like the spitting image of Hoss Cartwright minus the positive attitude.  His days usually started with an ice cold shower because all of the guys he was about to drive to class used up the hot water.  Anyway, you'd usually leave the visit feeling like you didn't have such a bad day after all.  

If you guys need a coach that likes to try to sneak the 12th man onto the field, our last Special Teams Coordinator might still be available.  FWIW, he's 1-0 as an Interim Head Coach in the playoffs vrs Pittsburgh.