One person one vote

[hoorta]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:58 PM, calfoxwc said:

yep. I think ALL counties matter. Not just the ones with big unions and big democrat population cities in them.

Vote YES on Issue one.

Spoken like a true Republican following those gerrymandered Republicans in the statehouse.... FWIW, there's some states that require 60% to pass a Constitutional amendment- But that are NONE that (draconian IMHO) require signatures from voters in ALL of the state's counties. 

Yeah Farmer Cal- I may not have visited ALL 88 Ohio counties- but I'll bet I've visited at least 65+ of them. I can tell you this from my bike rides through rural Ohio. FYI that equals Trump country, the pro\anti Issue 1 yard signs bear that out in spades. The sponsors of Issue 1 would have you believe it's a measure to "protect" the Constitution. Partially true, however If you'd maybe use the one unbiased neuron that I hope is still working in your brain- the ultimate fallout of Issue 1 is going to consolidate even MORE power in the Republican Dominated State Legislature. 

Will you kindly get real for 1\2 a second?   Pro OR con, the ability to canvass rural Ohio counties to get 5% of the voters to sign ANY petition is a f**king impossibility, and the folks who drafted Issue 1 are damn aware of that.

FWIW, since Issue 1 is a thinly veiled attempt to quash the upcoming Abortion proposal? I'm voting NO on 1, and no in November on abortion. Spew away pal.    

[hammertime]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Spoken like a true Republican following those gerrymandered Republicans in the statehouse.... FWIW, there's some states that require 60% to pass a Constitutional amendment- But that are NONE that (draconian IMHO) require signatures from voters in ALL of the state's counties. 

Yeah Farmer Cal- I may not have visited ALL 88 Ohio counties- but I'll bet I've visited at least 65+ of them. I can tell you this from my bike rides through rural Ohio. FYI that equals Trump country, the pro\anti Issue 1 yard signs bear that out in spades. The sponsors of Issue 1 would have you believe it's a measure to "protect" the Constitution. Partially true, however If you'd maybe use the one unbiased neuron that I hope is still working in your brain- the ultimate fallout of Issue 1 is going to consolidate even MORE power in the Republican Dominated State Legislature. 

Will you kindly get real for 1\2 a second?   Pro OR con, the ability to canvass rural Ohio counties to get 5% of the voters to sign ANY petition is a f**king impossibility, and the folks who drafted Issue 1 are damn aware of that.

FWIW, since Issue 1 is a thinly veiled attempt to quash the upcoming Abortion proposal? I'm voting NO on 1, and no in November on abortion. Spew away pal.    

You are willing to forgo your faith for this?

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

Spoken like a true Republican following those gerrymandered Republicans in the statehouse.... FWIW, there's some states that require 60% to pass a Constitutional amendment- But that are NONE that (draconian IMHO) require signatures from voters in ALL of the state's counties. 

Yeah Farmer Cal- I may not have visited ALL 88 Ohio counties- but I'll bet I've visited at least 65+ of them. I can tell you this from my bike rides through rural Ohio. FYI that equals Trump country, the pro\anti Issue 1 yard signs bear that out in spades. The sponsors of Issue 1 would have you believe it's a measure to "protect" the Constitution. Partially true, however If you'd maybe use the one unbiased neuron that I hope is still working in your brain- the ultimate fallout of Issue 1 is going to consolidate even MORE power in the Republican Dominated State Legislature. 

Will you kindly get real for 1\2 a second?   Pro OR con, the ability to canvass rural Ohio counties to get 5% of the voters to sign ANY petition is a f**king impossibility, and the folks who drafted Issue 1 are damn aware of that.

FWIW, since Issue 1 is a thinly veiled attempt to quash the upcoming Abortion proposal? I'm voting NO on 1, and no in November on abortion. Spew away pal.    

yet, if we lived in a dem controlled state, you would be all for issue one. That is how you roll, troll.

   Truth is, ON PRINCIPLE - like I have said, 60% makes it harder for special interest LOBBYISTS to sway one or two reps to get a pro-special interest change made.

   That goes for nra lobbyists. pro-life/infanticide supporting lobbyists, giant corporations - like pharma and EV producing auto manufacturers, gun control demanders, etc etc etc.

  On PRINCIPLE = changes pro-abortionists want, would be SO MUCH EASIER if they don't make it 60%.

  So, I don't have to insult you to make my point - ...(although you are deserving by your behavior)..

   You don't want republicans who have the power to be able to stop being thwarted by one or two successful lobbyists $$$$$$$.

   You lefties - would be frantically in support of issue one if dems had the numbers, and you know it.

   I support it regardless.

dems are emotional knee jerkers - whatever makes them have an advantage - that is how they vote. Meaning, no advantage to them, they vote "NO". Advantage to them - they vote "YES".

   That is dishonest greed.

[Ibleedbrown]

Good information up in here, l appreciate the collective input. 

My initial thoughts on this were along the lines of something in politics l refer to as “a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” I gather that abortion is the hot topic of the moment. Will it still be a pressing thing 5-10 years from now? I dunno. Probably depends on who gets what they want between now and then.

Is it in the realm of possibilities that down the road something near and dear to conservatives may pop up as a proposed constitutional amendment? Probably. If so, conservatives will have fucked themselves by supporting this. 

I’m not diametrically opposed to a 60% majority to pass a constitutional amendment. I kinda like it actually. Fucking with a constitution is sort of a big deal. 

The thing l don’t like is the bit about all 88 counties having to sign off on things. It puts too much power in a relatively small segment of the population. 

For you conservatives projecting ahead, this means a small brigade of influencers, thugs and propaganda makers in Athens County can make sure that future thing you really care about never sees the opportunity for a vote. 

Give me a proposed amendment where 51% of us think something is important enough to vote on, and THEN 60% of us have to approve to pass. I would support that bill. 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Good information up in here, l appreciate the collective input. 

My initial thoughts on this were along the lines of something in politics l refer to as “a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” I gather that abortion is the hot topic of the moment. Will it still be a pressing thing 5-10 years from now? I dunno. Probably depends on who gets what they want between now and then.

Is it in the realm of possibilities that down the road something near and dear to conservatives may pop up as a proposed constitutional amendment? Probably. If so, conservatives will have fucked themselves by supporting this. 

I’m not diametrically opposed to a 60% majority to pass a constitutional amendment. I kinda like it actually. Fucking with a constitution is sort of a big deal. 

The thing l don’t like is the bit about all 88 counties having to sign off on things. It puts too much power in a relatively small segment of the population. 

For you conservatives projecting ahead, this means a small brigade of influencers, thugs and propaganda makers in Athens County can make sure that future thing you really care about never sees the opportunity for a vote. 

Give me a proposed amendment where 51% of us think something is important enough to vote on, and THEN 60% of us have to approve to pass. I would support that bill. 

That’s pretty much where I am.

I like the idea of a 60% majority, but I’m not a fan of all 88 counties being on board.

They should make it 53 counties (60%) to keep things in line with each other.

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Good information up in here, l appreciate the collective input. 

My initial thoughts on this were along the lines of something in politics l refer to as “a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” I gather that abortion is the hot topic of the moment. Will it still be a pressing thing 5-10 years from now? I dunno. Probably depends on who gets what they want between now and then.

Is it in the realm of possibilities that down the road something near and dear to conservatives may pop up as a proposed constitutional amendment? Probably. If so, conservatives will have fucked themselves by supporting this. 

I’m not diametrically opposed to a 60% majority to pass a constitutional amendment. I kinda like it actually. Fucking with a constitution is sort of a big deal. 

The thing l don’t like is the bit about all 88 counties having to sign off on things. It puts too much power in a relatively small segment of the population. 

For you conservatives projecting ahead, this means a small brigade of influencers, thugs and propaganda makers in Athens County can make sure that future thing you really care about never sees the opportunity for a vote. 

Give me a proposed amendment where 51% of us think something is important enough to vote on, and THEN 60% of us have to approve to pass. I would support that bill. 

after more thought - excellent post - I get your point. In the current political "war" climate - a change requiring all counties would inevitably be doomed on either political side, regardless of genuine merit.

   I will say this - in some not-as-populated counties - they still need to have a voice - the counties with giant democrat radical cities would rule. Cleveland....Columbus.....Toledo, Sinfullnatti, Youngstown. That leaves a lot of counties with no big population over-ruled every time.

  Yes, Constitutional changes are a huge deal. I don't want it easy to outlaw guns, or unlimited abortions, etc etc etc. I don't want it easy to change it at all - making it legal to own SAM's lol, etc etc.

 

[Jax]

4 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Good information up in here, l appreciate the collective input. 

My initial thoughts on this were along the lines of something in politics l refer to as “a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” I gather that abortion is the hot topic of the moment. Will it still be a pressing thing 5-10 years from now? I dunno. Probably depends on who gets what they want between now and then.

Is it in the realm of possibilities that down the road something near and dear to conservatives may pop up as a proposed constitutional amendment? Probably. If so, conservatives will have fucked themselves by supporting this. 

I’m not diametrically opposed to a 60% majority to pass a constitutional amendment. I kinda like it actually. Fucking with a constitution is sort of a big deal. 

The thing l don’t like is the bit about all 88 counties having to sign off on things. It puts too much power in a relatively small segment of the population. 

For you conservatives projecting ahead, this means a small brigade of influencers, thugs and propaganda makers in Athens County can make sure that future thing you really care about never sees the opportunity for a vote. 

Give me a proposed amendment where 51% of us think something is important enough to vote on, and THEN 60% of us have to approve to pass. I would support that bill. 

That's a tough one, this whole debate can be seen from both sides. One thing is certain, no one wants anyone that differs from their beliefs to have control.

Is that what this comes down to? Do we trust in the constitution enough that any change would need to be sweeping?

I believe people need to base this vote on what is good for 'the people', not worry about whether the Democrats or Republicans come out on top. The constitution limits gov't and in my opinion, if you allow changes then you give gov't the chance to gain power while stripping our rights. No hot topic of the day is worth eroding our rights.

[MLD Woody]

The no's have it

57% to 43%

Another example of how the majority of folks in this country disagree with the conservative view on abortion (this was 100% and abortion issue vote)

[calfoxwc]

14 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

The no's have it

57% to 43%

Another example of how the majority of folks in this country disagree with the conservative view on abortion (this was 100% and abortion issue vote)

oh, self-serving baloney, typical woody.

I saw a commercial that ran a lot - it said issue one was dangerous, "would take away our freedoms" and grpahically showed it would destroy out Constiution - by scissors cutting it in half.

   So, how stupid is that? Making it harder for special interests/lobbyists to get to 51% in the House - is taking away....WHAT ???

(takes away the left having a chance to screw up our Ohio Constitution with leftwing garbage, and infanticide, that's what).

  So, to any leftie= how does making it a bit harder to change our Ohio Constiution take away our freedoms?

How does it not PROTECT our Constitution from slim margin special interst lobbyists screwing with our Constitution?

well, unions are some of those special interests, They have a chance to get their way with 51%. NOT 60%.

education unions wanting to pervert Ohio kids and screw over parental authority do NOT want to lose their chance - they would have no chance at 60%.

etc etc etc.

   But, as i've said in the past-  an emotional LIE can beat a complicated truth for people who don't really pay attenton much, and are too busy to care.

 

[calfoxwc]

case in point:

• https://abcnews.go.com › US › wireStory › ohio-election-revolves-abortion-rights-fueled-national-groups-102063174

  An Ohio election that revolves around abortion rights is fueled by ...

  The Associated Press COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Supporters of a ballot question in Ohio that would make it harder to change the state constitution and could determine the fate of abortion rights there say a yes vote will provide a "defense against out-of-state meddling." Opponents argue that a yes vote would give "special interests the winning advantage."

  *************************************************

     can anyone explain to me, how the heck a "yes" vote would give special interests the winning advantage, when it is the special interests who demand to have the power to leftwing our Constitution with easier changes?

   

    All the special interests HATE a "yes" vote.

  So, they lie and play dishonestly with the truth.

  They want to legalize taking away the right of CHILDREN UNBORN AND BORN to LIFE.

   

  I said a long time ago - they fought til they won to stop property tax to support schools. Why? because they did not want Parents and other voters to have a say how schools are run.

  They wanted complete control, so property tax funding - voted on by parents, had to go - to stop parents from having any say.

   

  And now, see where it has gone. The NEA and some school boards siccing the fbi on parents who simply vocalize their disagreements in school board "meetings". etc etc.

[MLD Woody]

24 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

oh, self-serving baloney, typical woody.

I saw a commercial that ran a lot - it said issue one was dangerous, "would take away our freedoms" and grpahically showed it would destroy out Constiution - by scissors cutting it in half.

   So, how stupid is that? Making it harder for special interests/lobbyists to get to 51% in the House - is taking away....WHAT ???

(takes away the left having a chance to screw up our Ohio Constitution with leftwing garbage, and infanticide, that's what).

  So, to any leftie= how does making it a bit harder to change our Ohio Constiution take away our freedoms?

How does it not PROTECT our Constitution from slim margin special interst lobbyists screwing with our Constitution?

well, unions are some of those special interests, They have a chance to get their way with 51%. NOT 60%.

education unions wanting to pervert Ohio kids and screw over parental authority do NOT want to lose their chance - they would have no chance at 60%.

etc etc etc.

   But, as i've said in the past-  an emotional LIE can beat a complicated truth for people who don't really pay attenton much, and are too busy to care.

 

If only your out of state money convinced enough idiots to vote yes

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, MLD Woody said:

If only your out of state money convinced enough idiots to vote yes

I don't have any out of state money, you birdbrain.

your slurs and lies don't do much to hide your ignorance.

[nickers]

28 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't have any out of state money, you birdbrain.

your slurs and lies don't do much to hide your ignorance.

He's a gay bigot.. He feels "Spay-shul"

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't have any out of state money, you birdbrain.

your slurs and lies don't do much to hide your ignorance.

Aw poor, poor Cal... YOU may not have, but some of the pro out of state Issue 1 $$$ came to the tune of $4 million- from the guy who owns Uline. 

I've said I could live with 55%- but getting signatures from all 88 Ohio counties is pure bullshit- that the power grabbers in the gerrymandered Statehouse knew damn well. No chance to cure signatures either. 

Passage of Issue 1 (as written) would effectively have put an end to citizen initiated Constitutional provisions. Do you think that's a great idea? I sure as hell don't. 

Wake up guy- this was a Draconian proposal that could have blocked teeny (population 12,600) Vinton County blocking the other 87. Care to tell me how that's democratic? You can't- so don't even try. 

See below....  

 

On 7/27/2023 at 10:12 PM, hammertime said:

You are willing to forgo your faith for this?

Um FYI- I happen to be a practicing Catholic so I'll give you my 0.02 cents on that.  Some "of our persuasion" made this a vote for Issue 1 is an anti abortion vote.... Note the Republicans down Columbus way are scared shitless that the upcoming November Election will effectively grant abortion in the state.  I don't know HOW many times I have to post here that I'm 100% anti abortion...  HOWEVER, Issue 1 was a totally shitty way trying to get a backdoor undemocratic Amendment added to the Constitution- and to top it off- in an August election that they (the Republican super majority)  conveniently forgot they had previous outlawed? Give me a break. Impressive that the number of voters who turned out to cast ballots approached the turnout of the 2022 midterms. 

But I digress.... the Church- at least in theory- is supposed to take a "neutral position" on any ballot or candidate preferences. But they sure as hell were telling the Flock to get out and vote YES on Issue 1.  May have to shoot an email to Farther Rob Jack over on Sacred Heart Radio- you were way out of line there Padre. 

You're told to vote your conscience- and that's exactly what I did. F**king with the status quo of the state Constitution over a single issue (abortion) in my feeble mind just wasn't worth it. So, my Catholic friends- get yard signs out now- to shoot the anti-abortion Issue down in flames- in November- where (IMHO it belongs).  Then, your vote will count loud and clear- and I'll be right there with you.  

[Westside Steve]

Well the will of the people majority rule is a joke anyway. First of all the system is set up so that the ruling class does whatever the hell they want. Second of all the majority is probably too stupid to rule itself anyway.

This probably won't change our day-to-day lives much if any. But for a minute people have a false sense of importance.

WSS

[Canton Dawg]

6 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

If only your out of state money convinced enough idiots to vote yes

Obviously your out of state money money prevailed…congrats.

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Aw poor, poor Cal... YOU may not have, but some of the pro out of state Issue 1 $$$ came to the tune of $4 million- from the guy who owns Uline. 

I love it when you take the holier than thou approach to political issues.

Allow me to piss on your Cabernet.

$4.8 million for the “Vote Yes” crowd came from the out of state coffers.

Meanwhile $14.8 million came from the “Vote No” out of state contingent. (including the teachers Union).

Cheers 🍷

https://www.statenews.org/government-politics/2023-07-28/ohio-issue-1-money-out-of-state-for-against

 

[cccjwh]

8 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The no's have it

57% to 43%

Another example of how the majority of folks in this country disagree with the conservative view on abortion (this was 100% and abortion issue vote)

The same morons crying about the derp state, voted to give the derp state more power. MAGA the stupidity never stops.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

The death of womens rights in Ohio, and soon the Nation.

[Vambo]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The no's have it

57% to 43%

Another example of how the majority of folks in this country disagree with the conservative view on abortion (this was 100% and abortion issue vote)

 

[MLD Woody]

9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I don't have any out of state money, you birdbrain.

your slurs and lies don't do much to hide your ignorance.

The out of state money that pushes the GOP agenda on this issue. Keep up

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Obviously your out of state money money prevailed…congrats.

I wasn't on a soap box complaining about it like some folks... 

[Westside Steve]

2 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

The out of state money that pushes the GOP agenda on this issue. Keep up

More like the stupidity of Voters who don't really know what one person one vote actually means. But it does sound good. Kind of like a bumper sticker.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Just now, Westside Steve said:

More like the stupidity of Voters who don't really know what one person one vote actually means. But it does sound good. Kind of like a bumper sticker.

WSS

Or the stupidity of voters knowing nothing more than "abortion bad!" when making their vote...

It goes both ways

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Or the stupidity of voters knowing nothing more than "abortion bad!" when making their vote...

It goes both ways

Or abortion good.. like I said it will bite somebody in the ass today and somebody else tomorrow.

WSS

[nickers]

54 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Or the stupidity of voters knowing nothing more than "abortion bad!" when making their vote...

It goes both ways

The only one stupid here is you.. Take your meds Chumbley!

[cccjwh]

5 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Obviously your out of state money money prevailed…congrats.

 

[Westside Steve]

11 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

 

Which, as I am sure you know, without insults or bombast whatsoever relying on a bill because of its name or the name that the news media attaches to it is a little bit silly.

Anti-corruption, hey that has to be good right? Regardless of its effect on corruption.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

4 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Or abortion good.. like I said it will bite somebody in the ass today and somebody else tomorrow.

WSS

Oh I don't doubt it. 

 

We could see both parties taking the opposite stance in a year 

[FairHooker11]

15 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

The no's have it

57% to 43%

Another example of how the majority of folks in this country disagree with the conservative view on abortion (this was 100% and abortion issue vote)

no it wasnt- abortion was floated as a proxy test, the  dog whistle sounded, and the left went into 

the usual reaction with impunity to the facts.

any word from Cuyahoga Falls for ballot / machine problems ? 

im guesssing they are a conservative town?