This Loss False Squarely on Andrew Berry!

[Dutch Oven]

43 minutes ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Judging by ol' nickers reaction, it seems my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough... 

Oh, how the turntables... 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Korsou Dawg said:

Judging by ol' nickers reaction, it seems my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough... 

😆 It feels like there's some things going in this situation that could reach a point of no return.  I'll start with a little Caption Obvious.  Watson has taken some shots in the first few weeks. That said, should we be surprised when we factor in the reason(s) he needed to be suspended AND the guaranteed 230 million $ contract (pissing off many front offices/organizations on the schedule)?  I'm not sure if that contract has also pissed off veterans on this team that have been committed to being here with hopes to finish what they thought they had started (without $ left to keep some of these vets in the near future).  There's gotta be some hostility within this team that the FO didn't even consider or maybe they and just didn't care.

Anyway, when we see Watson taking shots - he's probably wondering why THIS team isn't jumping all over the opponent with the late hit like his former teammates at Clemson or Houston would have.  I may have just covered some of those reasons without even thinking about it.  He lost his composure in one of the games.  I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for him. I'm just trying to get into the mindset of what could have happened from practicing all week with teammates and coaches thinking he was going to play to can't do it today. Is he thinking if they're not going fight for me - why should I put it on the line for them?  If so "UMMMMMM THERE'S A 230 MILLION $ COMMITMENT TO YOU REMINDING EVERYONE THIS WAS THE ONLY FRANCHISE THAT DARED TO FIGHT FOR YOU!  YOU WANT TRUST?  WIN IT!"

Now, there's pissed off teammates (apparently some that have already voiced it to him).  This could get really ugly at warped speed and I doubt the week off is going to make these teammates forget this that easily. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.  I think the FRONT OFFICE and Coaching Staff has a major challenge here; and it's time to see what their leadership is made of in how they respond to this.  Not to pile on, but this team seemed liked they really respected Brissett. It makes me wonder why they just didn't keep him here as a backup for continuity sake.  He didn't go anywhere to start - he's a back-up to Sam Howell.  That said, he found ways to lead and navigate the "fit square peg into round hole offense" here.  The Browns averaged about 28 points a game most of the 11 weeks we looked to Brissett - which made Stefanski look like he was doing a good job by accident. Berry's creativity with the cap could have kept him here. 

Oh well, we're gonna find out real soon if our biggest opponent next week is SF or the current situation brewing with Watson and the team. 

 

[SdBacker80]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

😆 It feels like there's some things going in this situation that could reach a point of no return.  I'll start with a little Caption Obvious.  Watson has taken some shots in the first few weeks. That said, should we be surprised when we factor in the reason(s) he needed to be suspended AND the guaranteed 230 million $ contract (pissing off many front offices/organizations on the schedule)?  I'm not sure if that contract has also pissed off veterans on this team that have been committed to being here with hopes to finish what they thought they had started (without $ left to keep some of these vets in the near future).  There's gotta be some hostility within this team that the FO didn't even consider or maybe they and just didn't care.

Anyway, when we see Watson taking shots - he's probably wondering why THIS team isn't jumping all over the opponent with the late hit like his former teammates at Clemson or Houston would have.  I may have just covered some of those reasons without even thinking about it.  He lost his composure in one of the games.  I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for him. I'm just trying to get into the mindset of what could have happened from practicing all week with teammates and coaches thinking he was going to play to can't do it today. Is he thinking if they're not going fight for me - why should I put it on the line for them?  If so "UMMMMMM THERE'S A 230 MILLION $ COMMITMENT TO YOU REMINDING EVERYONE THIS WAS THE ONLY FRANCHISE THAT DARED TO FIGHT FOR YOU!  YOU WANT TRUST?  WIN IT!"

Now, there's pissed off teammates (apparently some that have already voiced it to him).  This could get really ugly at warped speed and I doubt the week off is going to make these teammates forget this that easily. Hopefully, I'm wrong about that.  I think the FRONT OFFICE and Coaching Staff has a major challenge here; and it's time to see what their leadership is made of in how they respond to this.  Not to pile on, but this team seemed liked they really respected Brissett. It makes me wonder why they just didn't keep him here as a backup for continuity sake.  He didn't go anywhere to start - he's a back-up to Sam Howell.  That said, he found ways to lead and navigate the "fit square peg into round hole offense" here.  The Browns averaged about 28 points a game most of the 11 weeks we looked to Brissett - which made Stefanski look like he was doing a good job by accident. Berry's creativity with the cap could have kept him here. 

Oh well, we're gonna find out real soon if our biggest opponent next week is SF or the current situation brewing with Watson and the team. 

 

I thought Brissett had TWO feet out the door at seasons end.  Going to Washington could still be a good option for him to start.  Sitting behind someone making 230M - the guy in front of him will get 2nd…3rd and a 4th chance to succeed…heck the HC will get fired before Brissett gets a chance if Watson doesn’t play to a standard and we miss the playoffs.  I spent two months on this board coming down on people for criticizing Brissett last year (while absolving Woods) Brissett played well (and really well at times) with no expectations…I could imagine he had the respect of the other 52 guys on the roster with the way he performed. 
 

maybe I missed the play but what time did teammates not stand up for Watson?  I would probably be pissed at the Titty blocking and lack of effort from Wills but again I don’t understand what grievance Watson would have against his teammates.  I’m trying to figure it out…is it not signing his buddy Hopkins?

The league is not behind Watson at all.  If he wants to piss off the only organization behind him now…I think that amounts to career suicide.  
 

 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I thought Brissett had TWO feet out the door at seasons end.  Going to Washington could still be a good option for him to start.  Sitting behind someone making 230M - the guy in front of him will get 2nd…3rd and a 4th chance to succeed…heck the HC will get fired before Brissett gets a chance if Watson doesn’t play to a standard and we miss the playoffs.  I spent two months on this board coming down on people for criticizing Brissett last year (while absolving Woods) Brissett played well (and really well at times) with no expectations…I could imagine he had the respect of the other 52 guys on the roster with the way he performed. 
 

maybe I missed the play but what time did teammates not stand up for Watson?  I would probably be pissed at the Titty blocking and lack of effort from Wills but again I don’t understand what grievance Watson would have against his teammates.  I’m trying to figure it out…is it not signing his buddy Hopkins?

The league is not behind Watson at all.  If he wants to piss off the only organization behind him now…I think that amounts to career suicide.  
 

 

Brissett is a backup that fills in for injured starters.  We already needed a back-up in just our 4th game to start and he wasn't ready.

As for protecting Watson from late hits and cheap shots, it sounds like I'm missing a lot of times you're noticing.  I'm not saying you're wrong. I probably have to sharpen up my radar for it. Having said that, there's gonna be opponents with things to say and Watson's gonna have to have thick skin.  This isn't a surprise.  Cheap shots and late hits are different - they need to be dealt with.  

It just feels like there's something up with that last minute no go today. We'll see what happens...

[SdBacker80]

4 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Brissett is a backup that fills in for injured starters.  We already needed a back-up in just our 4th game to start and he wasn't ready.

As for protecting Watson from late hits and cheap shots, it sounds like I'm missing a lot of times you're noticing.  I'm not saying you're wrong. I probably have to sharpen up my radar for it. Having said that, there's gonna be opponents with things to say and Watson's gonna have to have thick skin.  This isn't a surprise.  Cheap shots and late hits are different - they need to be dealt with.  

It just feels like there's something up with that last minute no go today. We'll see what happens...

I know what Brissett is and you could argue he played like a fringe starter.  I believe we wanted him back…these are quotes before the final game last year.  

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lists/browns-jacoby-brissett-cherish-2022/
 

Sounds like a guy out the door.  So we can lament that we should have brought him back but it takes two. 
 

Im saying I don’t notice any dirty play against Watson.  Has drawn a late hit flag?  I think 1 in three games.  I just notice really shitty effort from our left tackle that may expose Watson more than necessary.  The Shot he was injured on he didn’t slide. To say Clemson and Texan teammates jumping all over opponents rough housing but the Browns teammates  not - I don’t see an opportunity where his teammates here needed to stand up for him.  And I’m leaving the off the field stuff out of the equation 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

I know what Brissett is and you could argue he played like a fringe starter.  I believe we wanted him back…these are quotes before the final game last year.  

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lists/browns-jacoby-brissett-cherish-2022/
 

Sounds like a guy out the door.  So we can lament that we should have brought him back but it takes two. 
 

Im saying I don’t notice any dirty play against Watson.  Has drawn a late hit flag?  I think 1 in three games.  I just notice really shitty effort from our left tackle that may expose Watson more than necessary.  The Shot he was injured on he didn’t slide. To say Clemson and Texan teammates jumping all over opponents rough housing but the Browns teammates  not - I don’t see an opportunity where his teammates here needed to stand up for him.  And I’m leaving the off the field stuff out of the equation 

Are we shooting the breeze here or trying to win an argument instead?  I think we should have brought someone back at QB because you saw what inexperience looked like.  As I said, Brissett is currently backing up Sam Howell in Washington - whom I'm guessing is ranked near the bottom of the starting QBs (prior to facing a struggling 0-4 Bears team tonight).   I'm not saying you're wrong that Cleveland didn't make him feel wanted. I'm venting that he was the most experienced/best fill-in starter we had.  For most of the 11 games he started - our offense averaged 28 points a game with him leading the team.  We both liked the job he did here if I'm remembering a lot of the discussions correctly.

There's a video Neo shared in the Watson's shoulder thread; because he thought it might have been where he got injured.  Watson took a forearm to the neck/shoulder area from a TN Titan after he threw the ball.  Anyway, the video ended abruptly so I couldn't see if anyone on the offense jumped in that guy's face or gave him a shove to say "you're not gonna do that kind of crap here."  I say that whether it was meant to be dirty or not.     

 

 

 

 

[Neo]

13 minutes ago, Flugel said:

There's a video Neo shared in the Watson's shoulder thread; because he thought it might have been where he got injured.  Watson took a forearm to the neck/shoulder area from a TN Titan after he threw the ball.  Anyway, the video ended abruptly

An extended version. Sure doesn't look like anyone comes to Watson's defense. What a shame, I thought he was playing well besides the bone-headed backwars pass. This team has no spine. I almost understand now why he decided to sit the next one out.

 

 

[Orion]

Brissette was not going to stay here where he had zero chance of starting.  When we traded Dobbs, I was then sure that we were going to keep Mond.  Of course, I was wrong.  The problem was, against career backups and rookies, DTR outplayed Dobbs & Mond.  And he fooled the front office into thinking that he was the better choice as the #2 QB and that they didn't need Dobbs or Mond and would just sign some scrub to be on the PS.

Woods took the fall for last season.  And honestly, I think his scheme for at least the secondary was too confusing.  Guys didn't know what they were supposed to do and a lot of big plays was the proof.  But he wasn't responsible for the inability to stop the run.  I'm sure he's saying, SURE, look what they got Schwartz to work with.  REAL defensive tackles!  Plus, Woods' LB'ers all got hurt.  That poor guy was fucked last season.  

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Brissette was not going to stay here where he had zero chance of starting.  When we traded Dobbs, I was then sure that we were going to keep Mond.  Of course, I was wrong.  The problem was, against career backups and rookies, DTR outplayed Dobbs & Mond.  And he fooled the front office into thinking that he was the better choice as the #2 QB and that they didn't need Dobbs or Mond and would just sign some scrub to be on the PS.

Woods took the fall for last season.  And honestly, I think his scheme for at least the secondary was too confusing.  Guys didn't know what they were supposed to do and a lot of big plays was the proof.  But he wasn't responsible for the inability to stop the run.  I'm sure he's saying, SURE, look what they got Schwartz to work with.  REAL defensive tackles!  Plus, Woods' LB'ers all got hurt.  That poor guy was fucked last season.  

The point in bold above sounds a lot better than the reality that has followed.  Didn't the FO already show us that everybody has a price tag that can turn a "no thanks" into a "Hell Yeah" when they signed Watson to the 1st guaranteed contract as high as 230 million $?  The problem is week 4 already turned back into a "no thanks" from the guy they guaranteed all that hot cake to. 

How is this for a 0% chance of starting?  The inexperienced rookie back-up QB in Cleveland already started in week 4 and it killed the Browns. More specifically, the Cleveland Browns only lasted 3 games before needing a backup.   I need to follow my own advice here - try to remember this is the Cleveland Browns we're talking about.  

Meanwhile, Brissett is currently backing up 2nd year QB (5th round draft pick) Sam Howell in Washington in his 1st year starting. Insuring the QB position was a smart place for the FO to start crying poor with the salary cap restriction of a 5th round rookie QB.   It almost rivals trying to play defense in 2022 without any talent at DT because our LBers in the next tier had a lot of speed (at least before all of the starting LBers went on IR because there were no DTs to keep blockers from crushing them).  What a plan from the FO!  That's why I say - try to remember this is the Cleveland Browns we're talking about.

The good news is they resolved the problems on defense and the DC position.  The bad news is the offense. The design of the offense, the game planning/play-calling committee and the glaring weakness at Left Tackle (which is usually a very position most NFL Teams want to help protect the blindside of their high priced QB investments with).  They have their dream QB but they don't know how to use him or protect him 2 years into his contract.

There's a lot of season left to prove those of us that are worried (including me) wrong.  

 

 

[SdBacker80]

11 hours ago, Neo said:

An extended version. Sure doesn't look like anyone comes to Watson's defense. What a shame, I thought he was playing well besides the bone-headed backwars pass. This team has no spine. I almost understand now why he decided to sit the next one out.

 

 

Go figure right in front of Wills.

[SdBacker80]

12 hours ago, Flugel said:

Are we shooting the breeze here or trying to win an argument instead?  I think we should have brought someone back at QB because you saw what inexperience looked like.  As I said, Brissett is currently backing up Sam Howell in Washington - whom I'm guessing is ranked near the bottom of the starting QBs (prior to facing a struggling 0-4 Bears team tonight).   I'm not saying you're wrong that Cleveland didn't make him feel wanted. I'm venting that he was the most experienced/best fill-in starter we had.  For most of the 11 games he started - our offense averaged 28 points a game with him leading the team.  We both liked the job he did here if I'm remembering a lot of the discussions correctly.

There's a video Neo shared in the Watson's shoulder thread; because he thought it might have been where he got injured.  Watson took a forearm to the neck/shoulder area from a TN Titan after he threw the ball.  Anyway, the video ended abruptly so I couldn't see if anyone on the offense jumped in that guy's face or gave him a shove to say "you're not gonna do that kind of crap here."  I say that whether it was meant to be dirty or not.     

 

 

 

 

Nope just settling into reality. 

Brissett got a 3.5 M raise and a better opportunity to start.  I don’t blame him or our front office.  The day he signed the contract is the day we should have all moved on.  We can’t afford an 8M fringe starter/backup.

For the foreseeable future Plan A, B, C is Deshaun Watson.  We pay him too much…we pay others too much.  If he goes down the ship goes down especially now with Chubb out.  I’m not gonna waste my time debating JAGs whether its Mond or whomever else we want to throw in the conversation. 
 

And that was a cheap shot right in front of our favorite Offensive lineman too 

[Flugel]

1 minute ago, SdBacker80 said:

Nope just settling into reality. 

Brissett got a 3.5 M raise and a better opportunity to start.  I don’t blame him or our front office.  The day he signed the contract is the day we should have all moved on.  We can’t afford an 8M fringe starter/backup.

For the foreseeable future Plan A, B, C is Deshaun Watson.  We pay him too much…we pay others too much.  If he goes down the ship goes down especially now with Chubb out.  I’m not gonna waste my time debating JAGs whether its Mond or whomever else we want to throw in the conversation. 
 

And that was a cheap shot right in front of our favorite Offensive lineman too 

Good point in bold and I'm glad you acknowledged it was a cheap shot.  

I don't care what players make as much as I care about our FO making sure we have important positions filled.  Back when Kosar played here, we had to have Strock and/or Pagel play in a playoff game or important football games to clinch a playoff spot.  They were experienced and they didn't kill our chances.  Kosar also backed up Aikman and started in a playoff game for Dallas one of the years they won a Super Bowl.  It's an important position, especially in a world where we see cheap shots on QBs like the video featured.

Ok, I'm done venting about Brissett but experienced backup QBs of any value are going to cost more like Washington is paying Brissett.  Even a guy like Hoyer or Winston are probably making more than a 5th round rookie salary cap income like DTR's.

Promise I'm done on this rant.

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

Meanwhile, Brissett is currently backing up 2nd year QB (5th round draft pick) Sam Howell in Washington in his 1st year starting.

Right.  I'm sure he saw that as a much better chance to be able to play some tackle football this year.  Of course if he knew which QB was going to get injured he'd probably have tried to go there.   - I would've loved for him to stay with us as the backup.  With our improved D, he could win games as the backup stepping in to play.  Right now there's no hope.  

To me the QB position is too important a position to get cute with.  If you're trying to win now then you should have a proven backup.  And if you want to keep your rookie 5th round pick and don't want to chance the practice squad then put him on the roster.  Carry 3 QB's.  It's that important of a position.  

[SdBacker80]

2 minutes ago, Orion said:

Right.  I'm sure he saw that as a much better chance to be able to play some tackle football this year.  Of course if he knew which QB was going to get injured he'd probably have tried to go there.   - I would've loved for him to stay with us as the backup.  With our improved D, he could win games as the backup stepping in to play.  Right now there's no hope.  

To me the QB position is too important a position to get cute with.  If you're trying to win now then you should have a proven backup.  And if you want to keep your rookie 5th round pick and don't want to chance the practice squad then put him on the roster.  Carry 3 QB's.  It's that important of a position.  

 Buffalo has Kyle Allen 2.5M

KC has Blaine Gabbert 1.6M

Bengals have Jake Browning 710K

These teams have something in common they are paying a ton of bucks to the starter and they are out of money to pay a 6-8M backup.

If the starter goes down their aspirations go out the window.

We aren’t alone.

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

 Buffalo has Kyle Allen 2.5M

KC has Blaine Gabbert 1.6M

Bengals have Jake Browning 710K

These teams have something in common they are paying a ton of bucks to the starter and they are out of money to pay a 6-8M backup.

If the starter goes down their aspirations go out the window.

We aren’t alone.

Absolutely.

The Browns are not alone in this boat, if most teams lose their starter it would be akin to trying to survive going over Niagara False in a wood row boat. 

[Flugel]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Right.  I'm sure he saw that as a much better chance to be able to play some tackle football this year.  Of course if he knew which QB was going to get injured he'd probably have tried to go there.   - I would've loved for him to stay with us as the backup.  With our improved D, he could win games as the backup stepping in to play.  Right now there's no hope.  

To me the QB position is too important a position to get cute with.  If you're trying to win now then you should have a proven backup.  And if you want to keep your rookie 5th round pick and don't want to chance the practice squad then put him on the roster.  Carry 3 QB's.  It's that important of a position.  

Well said!

[Flugel]

6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Absolutely.

The Browns are not alone in this boat, if most teams lose their starter it would be akin to trying to survive going over Niagara False in a wood row boat. 

Niagara False 🤣  Oh no you dit-nt...

[TexasAg1969]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Absolutely.

The Browns are not alone in this boat, if most teams lose their starter it would be akin to trying to survive going over Niagara False in a wood row boat. 

So you mean that there are other bean counters with this same disease of the mind? Obviously contagious. 🤒😷

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

Niagara False 🤣  Oh no you dit-nt...

I was starting to think no one noticed... 🤣

[Flugel]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I was starting to think no one noticed... 🤣

Not sure, I feel kind of bad for Nicks though.   I heard he was studying real hard to win that Spelling B for teenagers over 50.  They probably threw his ass a curve ball with a True or Falls question at the beginning to qualify...

[mjp28]

On 10/7/2023 at 9:07 AM, Dutch Oven said:

I was starting to think no one noticed... 🤣

~    Oh you guys are  so  bad,  well some of you for sure.   

And  I'm a firm believer that   S _ _  _  always runs downhill.  Every time.   But the worst bad  decisions  start at the top and that's where the blame belongs.

If you do not have good leadership  your chances of success are greatly diminished.