A Few Random Thoughts

[Flugel]

1.) One of the REASONS I fell in love with this franchise was the storied history of the RB position. Yesterday, Jamal showed quite a few people they shouldn't give up on him yet. I'm not one of them though and if you bear with me I'll be glad to shed the light on it. The OTHER side of our matchup showed me a RB that could take little daylight and become a serious scoring threat from anywhere on the field. THREE TDs to be exact and 185 yards rushing.

 

That got me to thinking - the 2003 version of Jamal was THAT guy. The one we have today - no longer runs 4.3 forties but CAN run hard and give us all he has. Nothing wrong with his effort yesterday as the Reverend Sez was happy to remind us. I was at least encouraged by that while Davis showed up with a concussion as the other 2 RBs were inactive. I look at Jamal's numbers in 2008 and see 1002 yds rushing, 3.6 avg per carry w/ 29 as his longest run from scrimmage all season and only 4 TDs. That's about 63 yards per game and a TD once every 4th game. We got 57 yards yesterday, NO TDs and a coaching staff that didn't have enough confidence in him inside the 5 to do anything but break out direct snaps to Cribbs instead. Like the Reverend Sez has reminded on many occasions, Mangini knows more than ANY of us holding Doritos bags so I'll trust we don't change this concept anytime soon. Moral of the story, when Jamal Lewis was a SERIOUS threat to score from anywhere on the field his first NFL team REMAINED interested in featuring him in their game plans. When he wasn't, the Wizard of Oz realized the Tin Man needs more than oil to outrun the ambitious younger guys and replace rusty parts. He still has the heart but is it enough?

 

2) Joe FREAKIN Thomas. Not only did I not HEAR Jared Allen's name mentioned once - I don't think I saw the mother hocker all day! That's because somebudda kicked his butt like you read about! Way to go Joe! The rest of the oline wasn't bad - they gotta work on consistency though. I'd say the weakest link from where I sat was Pork Chop Womack. On the sack, Williams made him look like Lee Ann Womack. Although I don't think he stunk. I see why people are looking forward to Hadnot.

 

3) Josh Cribbs - He's easily one of our 3 best players. You saw exactly why as he put 7 points on the board in the return game. If this guy ever gets hurt - I'm scared.

 

4) Shaun Rogers - We had a pretty freakin GOOD first half. As the game wore on - he wore down and I saw more of his backup starting series. His backup is much improved but NOBODY is Shaun Rogers when healthy.

 

5) As you can see, I just covered our 3 best players in numbers 2-4. Now for the QB position. I'm not exactly gonna panic BUT I'm also not gonna sit here and give excuses I wouldn't allow for DA. I thought the throw to Edwards was a gem so the interference was necessary. I'm still intrigued to see more. While I'm at it, I'd like Brady to see more because we didn't draft a first round QB for dink, dunk and don't. 1 more game like that and Loverboy is gonna send him candy and flowers to show his appreciation. Let's go Quinn - I saw what you did in your first 2 healthy starts last year so I know it's in there!

 

6) Kam Wimbley continued to show me what I started to appreciate seeing from him in the preseason. He looks like he's gonna be an absolute nightmare the Big Uglies can't take a play off from. LOVED it.

 

7) Elom - color me impressed. LOVED what I saw. LOVED the Safety blitzes from both our Safeties.

 

8) We stood on the winning side of toe to toe at halftime so there's something within we need to tap into fully. It's there! We saw it and we felt it! I like the new brain trust so I'm already excited about THIS Sunday!

 

Biggest concern? WHO is gonna score our TDs besides Cribbs? Best reason not to panic? We have some promising young players at WR and even RB now.

 

Hang in there folks - it's only week 1 and that was a playoff team. It's not QUITE as bad as losing 28-10 to a Dallas team heading for the following major playoff barriers: Jessica Simpson and Me-O flareups. - Tom F.

[ballpeen]

We were supposed to lose that game...Minni is a better team.

 

The next 3-4 will tell where we are in the pecking order.

[Guest ATENEARS]

Also was surprised to NOT see Furrey on the field much of the first half.

 

I watched Massaquoi run down the seam, looked open if thrown on a rope, but he was on the right side of the field, the side that never got a look.

[Guest ATENEARS]

3) Josh Cribbs - He's easily one of our 3 best players. You saw exactly as he put 7 points on the board in the return game. If this guy ever gets hurt - I'm scared.

 

-Tom F. [/b]

 

 

I wasn't a big fan of him making it as a receiver, but he has grown on me after watching him run sound routes at camp and in preseason. I keyed in on him yesterday and what a waste. Again, he was on the side of the field that Quinn never looked to. How do you not get this guy involved in an offense desperately in need of a spark?

 

Why tire him out running patterns if we aren't either going to use him as a decoy or throw the damn ball to him every other series at least? He was flat out ignore.

 

 

[ballpeen]

I watched Massaquoi run down the seam, looked open if thrown on a rope, but he was on the right side of the field, the side that never got a look.

 

I agree.

 

The wideouts on this team are going to be disinterested by game 3 if the qb doesn't go their way more rather than BQ doing his best to make Robert Royal the go to guy on this team....and I don't buy the wrong route BS...it was just a bad pass.

 

[Mr. T]

I wasn't a big fan of him making it as a receiver, but he has grown on me after watching him run sound routes at camp and in preseason. I keyed in on him yesterday and what a waste. Again, he was on the side of the field that Quinn never looked to. How do you not get this guy involved in an offense desperately in need of a spark?

 

Why tire him out running patterns if we aren't either going to use him as a decoy or throw the damn ball to him every other series at least? He was flat out ignore.

 

 

Quinn knows how DA lost his job by targeting BE Ooops dropped another one last season!

 

And if he wants to insure his job he needs to be able to throw to someone who he has confidence in. Such as Royal, Furry or Lewis. He also knows that even though Cribbs is a great athelete he is still new to this whole WR thing.

 

But even with that being said how many drops in total were there? Im only counting the ones where the receivers had touched the ball with 2 hands. maybe it was 6 in a row in the 4th quarter (2 offensive series) does anyone know?

[lemosley01]

I agree.

 

The wideouts on this team are going to be disinterested by game 3 if the qb doesn't go their way more rather than BQ doing his best to make Robert Royal the go to guy on this team....and I don't buy the wrong route BS...it was just a bad pass.

 

Uh. No. It was the wrong route. Braylon admitted it in his postgame interview.

 

Now whether it was Quinn or Braylon reading the wrong is debatable, but it WASN'T a bad pass.

 

Quinn needs to look downfield more. Short passes won't win a lot of games.

[Mark O]

They both admitted to being wrong. Could it be something that was a case of each one of them reading the defense differently? Who knows.

 

Quinn didn't look good....lets see what happens this weekend.

 

 

 

[Sez.EJ]

Flug's Good post. I agree that Jamal is not a game breaker.. That's why we need Harrison healthy and to give Gavis some reps too. Jamal however, can still be an effective chain mover. Getting first downs cannot be over-rated.

 

Joe Thomas was outstanding against Jared Allen.

 

Cribbs looked solid. I question the call of the multiple snaps on the goal line though. That's what Jamal is for. Mangini outthinking himself on that one.. That should have been 6 points on the board. Next time I see a standard running play. It's the other side of the line that could be the weak link.. We need to get Hadnot back in there soon.

 

Wimbley looked good.

 

Big baby's conditioning will come in time... but we need him on the field.

 

As for Elam.. he may be the guy who makes the preseason trade worth it.

 

 

One of the main complaints I heard from Jets fans was Mangini's inability to make half time adjustment... I have to side with them for this first game.. Let's hope we get better production from everyone next week.... and hopefully guys who can play 4 full quarters.. They got sloppier and sloppier as the game went on.

[MoonlitKnight]

Agreed, guys. With the illegal procedure calls, runs on 2nd and 15, weird use of the WildDawg, wrong routes, etc., it seemed to me that the offense just wasn't in sync. Also was surprised to NOT see Furrey on the field much of the first half.

 

Not a cop out, just the reality of it: QB derbies aren't the best thing for a young QB with very little game experience or familiarity with the offense or his teammates.

geeze dude.....this is quinns 3rd frigging year with the Browns....how can he not be familiar with his team mates? Need I remind you...he was TOUTED coming outta college as "NFL ready".

[Flugel]

I have to admit I was one of the harshest in here about Quinns performance yesterday.

 

His play itself wasnt what bothered me as much as a feeling like he was just lost and displayed none of the field general qualities I had expected him to display,it looked like he had zero confidence.

 

While we were expected to lose and accomplished that goal well I was glad to see Quinn put together the scoring drive at the end as it builds confidence and is something positive to build on and shows he does have heart and desire.

 

Danamal,

There's nothing wrong with being disappointed and honest about what you found disappointing. I'm not exactly thrilled about Quinn's first start BUT I'm happy to remind everytone we've seen him average 30 points a game in his first 2 starts. Understanding this, PART of me has to realize most of the following:

we had a brand new starting TE,

brand new starting RT,

brand new starting RG,

brand new starting Center,

Braylon coming out of post Dumb Ass Confidence Therapy,

there's 2 rookie WRs and Mike Furey that are new to this offense,

a 30 year old tailback who's backup had a concussion 1 day before the opener,

a new OC,

a new offense,

new everything...

 

Is it all supposed to equate to 30 points against Minnesota's playoff defense in week 1? If people want reality, last year we didn't have get our 20th point on the board until WEEK #3. More specifically, we've seen the alternative to Quinn. That alternative never made us hesitate to DRAFT Quinn in round 1 or hope he starts. That's not acing the 27 auditions or there's simply no such thing as Brady Quinn right now.

- Tom F.

[damajuki]

Good OP, Tom.

 

How about we mention that Mangini tried to get cute in the first half WAY too much. How about just playing some basic football before throwing in the wrinkles there, Eric?

 

Seemed to me using the WildDawg so early without establishing anything else first was akin to not admitting that Quinn was starting AFTER TO spilled the beans: the only person thinking he was particularly smart was Mangini himself.

 

Quinn wasn't good but the offensive game plan didn't give him the chance to be particularly good. Lots of seemingly unecessary weirdness that needs to be corrected this week in order for us to get a better idea of what Quinn can actually do.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

I think the weirdness was intended to get an advantage over Minn. defense,

 

to keep them off guard.

 

But they are still? the #1 run defense for a reason.

 

I think the Browns will beat the snot out of the Broncos.

[Flugel]

Flug's Good post. I agree that Jamal is not a game breaker.. That's why we need Harrison healthy and to give Gavis some reps too. Jamal however, can still be an effective chain mover. Getting first downs cannot be over-rated.

 

Thanks Sez! Good points.

 

I think I'm more open to Jamal if I know we're gonna give the other 2 RBs a chance as well. And who says we need a traditional FB in the backfield? I don't see why we don't put one of them (Davis or Harrison) on the field at the same time as Lewis the way we did with Mack and Byner. Mack actually ran 4.5 forties so he wasn't just here to block - and I think James Davis weighs about the same as Byner did (but he's faster). Using all 3 guys can prove to be invaluable because we're bound to find out which back matches up best with the opponent as the game is playing out. If we confine ourselves to just 1 guy that's scouted well, I think we limit our opportunity to attack their D some.

 

I think the Giants had a neat system for using 3 RBs last year. They used Jacobs as their #1, Derrick Ward was their 3rd down back and they usually saved the 4th quarter for Bradshaw to come in with fresh/quick legs while defenses were tired and worn down from their 1-2 punch. Pretty good rationale on their part IMO.

 

I think Mangini and BD will get it figured out.

- Tom F.

[cmac12]

I think this was a good post. Really this year is very similar to 2007. QB battle, favorable schedule, lots of new offensive lineman, new OC and receivers. The Browns got beat easily that year also against a strong opponent. The season is not over. Next week the Browns play denver and that is a game I have slotted as a win. Lets wait awhile before we all jump off the cliff.

 

Brady Quinn CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 VS Buffalo 2nd start.

 

Is that the game that you are using as an example of a good game? 5 FGs, a 72 yard run by harrison and a 2 yard run by cribbs after one of Edwards 3 interceptions. The defense and running game won this game. I would not use it as an example of what BQ can do.

[Flugel]

I think this was a good post. Really this year is very similar to 2007. QB battle, favorable schedule, lots of new offensive lineman, new OC and receivers. The Browns got beat easily that year also against a strong opponent. The season is not over. Next week the Browns play denver and that is a game I have slotted as a win. Lets wait awhile before we all jump off the cliff.

 

Brady Quinn CLE 14 36 185 0 0 23 VS Buffalo 2nd start.

 

Is that the game that you are using as an example of a good game? 5 FGs, a 72 yard run by harrison and a 2 yard run by cribbs after one of Edwards 3 interceptions. The defense and running game won this game. I would not use it as an example of what BQ can do.

 

Thanks CMAC!

 

I know 5 FGs doesn't sound wonderful vrs Buffalo BUT if he threw 1 INT during any of those drives - we lose a close game and don't finish with 29 points. Jay Cutler had the SAME Buffalo team on their heels in a game he needed to win for his team. He threw an INT on their last drive in the red zone so they lost a heartbreaker, which NOW meant they had to go beat SD the next week to qualify for the playoffs. We know how that went.

- Tom F.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Flugs, very good evaluation of the running game. Lewis isn't ready to be thrown to the curb but he isn't the take over the game back that Mangini wants for this offense. For that, I think this offense will struggle. I don't think we will see much of spread attack with 3 wides.

 

Lewis being Lewis, I don't agree with a lot on here about Davis. He had a nice preseason and cold be a solid back in time, but he isn't the game changer either. He's a rookie and it will show in the real games.

 

Personally, I want to see Harrison more then Davis. Harrison used properly can be a game changer. Swing passes, screens, draw plays, quick pitches and let him get to the corner. But, he isn't a between the tackles type of guy. I'd like to see the Browns use him the way that Minn. used Harvin. Get him in space with the ball and get him in mismatches coming out of the backfield.

[Flugel]

I watched Massaquoi run down the seam, looked open if thrown on a rope, but he was on the right side of the field, the side that never got a look.

 

LOL! I just got 2 minute abs laughing at Atenears' new icon. He ain't right!

- Tom F.

[Greythan]

Stan and Ballpeen are friggin classic.

 

Both spend all off season pining the boards about how folks should support the team and support DA.

 

Quinn's named the starter and both are fully convinced (and better yet VOCAL) about how he is awful.

 

Look in the mirror. If you, and those like minded, want balanced fans... start with yourselves. Quinn's the starter and we're going to get a good long look at him. Hell, read Mangini's comments from today's PD. Pretty complimentary on a performance that looked pretty bad from where I sat. Get on board boys.

[RestinPeace]

Mangini simply doesn't have alot of interest in winning this year. He is sowed in for a 5-11 type of year. The protection from injury and lack of playing time to gain cohesion from the starting units are just parts of this program. Alot of the teaching is one on one rather as a whole unit. Basically one long evaluation.

 

It sucks, but Mangini didn't like the way the Jets did business. They rushed things along and wanted wins now(as BB warned). Mangini is reminded of his days with BB building up the Patriots, the first year was pretty bad, but it got alot of things accomplished that set the tone for the future and more of that change happened in 2001 which lead to increased benefits.

 

It sucks for us. Teams are going to run on us. We will get stuffed alot in the run game at times, other times we will run well. Quinn will have better games, some worse. Who knows if he is the future, but it is a year long evaluation.

 

Deal with it, except it and hope for overachievement.

[ballpeen]

I am on board Grey. I just dropped $900 on the trip to Cleveland. I don't generally spend $900 on something i don't support.

 

I know BQ is the QB, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand. If he plays a poor game, it will be noted just as when he plays a good game it will be noted.

 

The first note is a poor game. In this game he did what Couch did many times in his career...pad up the numbers once the D is playing deep and giving short stuff. Take away the last 2 drives in who cares time and it wasn't pretty.

 

But..this is one game...far from long enough to establish a final conclusion...though i will say that bad games count like 3 good games because good games are expected and bad games aren't.

 

You can still have a good game in a losing effort.

 

All along people were saying how NFL ready BQ was, how he had the "it" factor and could lead his team.

 

I didn't see any of that on display on Sunday.

 

Just saying

[Flugel]

I am on board Grey. I just dropped $900 on the trip to Cleveland. I don't generally spend $900 on something i don't support.

 

All along people were saying how NFL ready BQ was, how he had the "it" factor and could lead his team.

 

I didn't see any of that on display on Sunday.

 

Just saying

 

Do we go by his first 2 starts as the rule of thumb or the opener? Since we don't know that in our 1st round draft pick's 3rd season - the alternative was gettign worse with every start as 3-6 would reveal in 08. And btw, I think Mangini was more than fair to the alternative all preseason. And guess how many TD passes DA supported that with?

 

I'm not saying you're doing this Ballpeen but it sure seems like people are gettiogn pissed at the fans that WANT Quinn to justify his draft slot. That's a mega huge pick in terms of importance. It would be nice to see that work out because we've been playing musical QBs since Testaverde led us to the playoffs in the early 90s. That's a LONG time. I just want us to settle the damn position because the rule changes are makign this a QB league so we NEED one.

 

I agree the QB has to win whatever way he has to do it. It doesn't always have to be pretty as long as we're moving the chains, eating some clock, resting our D and getting points in the process. It all falls into place from there.

 

- Tom F.

[RedDawg]

Mangini's comments seem to indicate that the outcome of the game was bad, but that Quinn's performance was not terrible.

 

Mangini is correct about the things Quinn did well. Am I the only one who noticed Quinn frequently changed plays? A very Bernie'esq move.

 

It looks as though Mangini is cutting him some slack because he sees potential or "up-side."

 

 

Stan and Ballpeen are friggin classic.

 

Both spend all off season pining the boards about how folks should support the team and support DA.

 

Quinn's named the starter and both are fully convinced (and better yet VOCAL) about how he is awful.

 

Look in the mirror. If you, and those like minded, want balanced fans... start with yourselves. Quinn's the starter and we're going to get a good long look at him. Hell, read Mangini's comments from today's PD. Pretty complimentary on a performance that looked pretty bad from where I sat. Get on board boys.

[ballpeen]

Do we go by his first 2 starts as the rule of thumb or the opener? Since we don't know that in our 1st round draft pick's 3rd season - the alternative was gettign worse with every start as 3-6 would reveal in 08. And btw, I think Mangini was more than fair to the alternative all preseason. And guess how many TD passes DA supported that with?

 

I'm not saying you're doing this Ballpeen but it sure seems like people are gettiogn pissed at the fans that WANT Quinn to justify his draft slot. That's a mega huge pick in terms of importance. It would be nice to see that work out because we've been playing musical QBs since Testaverde led us to the playoffs in the early 90s. That's a LONG time. I just want us to settle the damn position because the rule changes are makign this a QB league so we NEED one.

 

I agree the QB has to win whatever way he has to do it. It doesn't always have to be pretty as long as we're moving the chains, eating some clock, resting our D and getting points in the process. It all falls into place from there.

 

- Tom F.

 

 

I just want him to play well.

 

I don't care where he was drafted, or where he went to school, or where he gets his haircut.

 

As I said....it is way early and Minn is a stout D. He may have taken a few licks in the 1st round, but he is going 8-10 rounds minimum.

 

The next 2-3 games are against some mageable teams where we should get a few wins.

 

We will know a bit more 3-4 weeks from now.

 

[Mark O]

I think that is about the right attitude to have on this. I think it was a pretty disappointing and poor performance against a good defense. As disappointing as it was, I'm not about to jump off the bandwagon and say he needs to be replaced. We need to see him play a bunch of weeks in a row and see where we stand.

 

If he looks shitty again this week, I'll become a bit more concerned.

[Canton Mike]

Good points by many. I will add that I was extremely pleased to see an aggressive, attacking defense. Can we say "bye-bye" to rubber band defenses? Sure they wore out, but I like the defensive scheme & if we can generate enough offense to keep the D more rested, they'll be fine. As stated before, we certainly weren't expected to win this game & with all the new pieces & parts of this Brown's team that still need to learn & gel as a team, I'm optimistic.

Mike

[ballpeen]

If he looks shitty again this week, I'll become a bit more concerned.

 

No doubt.

 

It is like reading a book. Chapter by chapter your either get hooked or you become disinterested by one uneventful chapter after another.

 

This is a pretty big game for Brady because any author knows you need to set the hook early if they have hopes of people actually finishing the book. You have to grab them early, chapter after chapter....then add some of the filler stuff.

 

In football, bad games need to be about 1 out of every 4-5 games to be even a decent player. The really good ones don't have a dud but maybe every 10 games.

 

Now, I don't think brady can string 10 games...he isn't there yet nor may he ever be to that point, but he isn't a rookie either where you can sometimes expect a lot of flip flopping in how the guy plays. He hasn't had the game experience to this point, but his preparation is much further developed than would be a true rookie.

 

Add in that many last year were claiming that Brady would have been drafted ahead of Matt Ryan and we have a benchmark of sorts. I don't think it is beyond expectation to see Ryan like performances.

 

That doesn't mean the numbers have to be the same. It simply means we should see similar performance as it relates to the gameplan and the type of system we run.

 

 

[Mark O]

No doubt.

 

It is like reading a book. Chapter by chapter your either get hooked or you become disinterested by one uneventful chapter after another.

 

This is a pretty big game for Brady because any author knows you need to set the hook early if they have hopes of people actually finishing the book. You have to grab them early, chapter after chapter....then add some of the filler stuff.

 

In football, bad games need to be about 1 out of every 4-5 games to be even a decent player. The really good ones don't have a dud but maybe every 10 games.

 

Now, I don't think brady can string 10 games...he isn't there yet nor may he ever be to that point, but he isn't a rookie either where you can sometimes expect a lot of flip flopping in how the guy plays. He hasn't had the game experience to this point, but his preparation is much further developed than would be a true rookie.

 

Add in that many last year were claiming that Brady would have been drafted ahead of Matt Ryan and we have a benchmark of sorts. I don't think it is beyond expectation to see Ryan like performances.

 

That doesn't mean the numbers have to be the same. It simply means we should see similar performance as it relates to the gameplan and the type of system we run.

 

 

We are on the same page here....it's too bad that most of the rest here can't be so rational.

 

Are you going to the Chargers game on December 6th?

 

 

[ballpeen]

We are on the same page here....it's too bad that most of the rest here can't be so rational.

 

Are you going to the Chargers game on December 6th?

 

No Marko, not making that one. I am going to the Steeler game the following Thursday night...not enough turn around time to drive home on Monday and turn around and head back Wed afternoon...and to be honest..don't feel like holing up in a hotel Sun, Mon, Tue, and Wed in December in Cleveland..I can come back here to Chattanooga and have at least a 50/50 shot of being able to get in a round or two of golf on any of those days as at least 1-2 of those days will probably have a high around 50 or better.

 

45-50, sun, and low wind is a nice winter golf day, and we get lots of those all winter long.

[Mark O]

Well..since you're not going... have you sold your tickets to that one yet? It might make things easier for everyone since I'm planning on being there that weekend.

 

Zombo... you up for a December trip to Cleveland?