Finally....done with the horrble DW deal!!!!

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Ya know, I just don't think that they entertained that idea.  Flacco is a very old school QB.  As much as I (perhaps you, and others) would like/love that, it doesn't match the current organizational mindset.  They want backup QB's to have traits to more match Watson and the rpo style.  

Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do. 

I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation. 

It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here. 

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.

Maybe you're right.  But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better.  I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction.   - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do. 

I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation. 

It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here. 

Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?

I think Taylor Swift is spoken for already.🤫

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Maybe you're right.  But I'm not sure it matters....because I don't think that Haslem & DePo care what fits Stef better.  I think those two have their vision and Berry & Stef have to march in that direction.   - Plus, Flacco is too old to hitch a wagon to.

The thing I don't quite get, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the party line is that the Browns brass wants the QB room to consist of QBs who play the same style, right?

But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think? 

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?

Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not? 

Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...

PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN! 

or

THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not? 

Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...

PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN! 

or

THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!

What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.

The last QB the Browns were successful drafting came out of the 1985 Supplemental Draft.  Think back to how old you were when this happened. I was 21.  The very next off-season, the Browns hired OC - Lindy Infante.  They went from 8-8 behind Mack and Byner rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 to 12-4 with RBs combining for 117 receptions (Mack 28, Dickey 10, Byner 37, Fontenot 47) in 1986.  Knowing defenses were chomping at the bits to stop Mack and Byner and blitz the cement shoed Kosar in year 2 - Infante chose to dictate the weekly chess matches.  You want to zone blitz us?  Ok, here's a little Herman Fontenot and Brian Brennan combining for 102 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs. Meanwhile, Byner and Mack could just as easily catch swing passes to the flats (which was fun to watch when that area of the defense was vacated by the designated zone blitzer).  Talk about making life EASIER for a 2nd year QB - this was the best I've seen this team do in my lifetime.  

When Jim Harbaugh went to play QB for the Colts, he credited Infante for being the best offensive coach he had tapping what he does best.  I read an article where Harbaugh said he brought a lot of what Infante taught him to use with QBs he coached.  He combined that with what he learned from other coaches but emphasized Infante's main principles for QBs eased and expedited the progressions.  

All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them.  Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old. Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s.  I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB.  The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded.  FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season.  Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them.  Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?

[syd]

Browns' GM Andrew Berry joins The Pat McAfee Show

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

But Winston IMO is closer to being Joe Flacco than he is being Deshaun Watson. I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong? Is he more of a running threat than I think? 

Why is it sticking in my craw that somewhere I read Stef commenting on Winston and saying something like he's much more capable on the move than people think?   

[tiamat63]

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong?

 

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

Why not?  The RPO, built off the inside zone or even a QB centered inside zone read means the 'R' part of RPO is centered more around the RB than the QB.   The mobility of the QB is just a plus when you want or need to use that athletic ability as a schematic advantage in building play designs off of, what we understand, as the simple stuff. 

Winston isn't Lamar, but he has decent enough wheels like your classic mobile passers.  

[mjp28]

10 hours ago, Flugel said:

What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.......

.  ......  AND  .....

......  All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them.  Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old.

Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s.  I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB.  The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded.  FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season. 

Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them.  Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?

Astute observations by  Mr Flugs  with some  old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current  Cleveland BROWNS  situatations.

Even though we always wish for our  BROWNS  to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.

Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season  -AND-  put up some BIG numbers  -AND-  get into the  PLAYOFFS  -AND-  win some games.

Asking too much ?       

[Orion]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Why not?  The RPO, built off the inside zone or even a QB centered inside zone read

As it relates to the QB I would prefer RPO be PROB. 

Pass, if ya can't pass then Run and slide if it's safe,  or throw it OB.

[Flugel]

11 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Astute observations by  Mr Flugs  with some  old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current  Cleveland BROWNS  situatations.

Even though we always wish for our  BROWNS  to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.

Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season  -AND-  put up some BIG numbers  -AND-  get into the  PLAYOFFS  -AND-  win some games.

Asking too much ?       

Thanks MJP!  A lot of Stefanski earning the NFL Coach of the Year honor stemmed from what he did without Watson (using 4 other QBs).  For example, the Joe Flacco no other teams wanted in 2023 suddenly had other teams interested once he played for Stefanski. Having said that, in the last game we watched Watson play - he looked much more like the player we thought we traded for.  The Rats didn't have a solution for him when he heated up and led us to a comeback win. Hopefully that was what we will be seeing on a more regular basis.  

I think we have a very talented team on both sides of the ball like 11 wins reminded us. It can probably go even better if we can keep at least 1 of our 2 very talented Right Tackles healthy. I hope this isn't just wishful thinking; but I think we'll have even better depth this year.

[calfoxwc]

19 hours ago, Orion said:

Why is it sticking in my craw that somewhere I read Stef commenting on Winston and saying something like he's much more capable on the move than people think?   

I think they signed Winston because he has a sense of humor, unlike watson and stefanski

 

[Orion]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:47 AM, Flugel said:

Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them.

^  Thank you.

I've said pretty much that, except I chose to Fine and not bench the player.

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

^  Thank you.

I've said pretty much that, except I chose to Fine and not bench the player.

I thought about a fine too; but the only guy in the entire organization that makes more money than Watson is Jimmy Haslam.  If you want to change/correct a bad habit on the field - I think we're better off empowering the coaching staff with its wealth of experience to handle it.  The Browns hired Bill Musgrave as a Sr Offensive Assistant last year - he/Watson's position coach can provide safer alternatives when watching film with Watson and the offense. They don't necessarily have to start with benching Watson if he does it something like once in the 1st 2 games or so. If Watson starts blowing off the coaching points and initiates contact again - then you bench him for a series or a quarter or a half - all dependent on where they are with the situation. My guess is a competitive guy/QB would rather get fined than benched in a nationally televised game.  Lucky for us, we're just fans so this isn't our responsibility.

 

[Orion]

24 minutes ago, Flugel said:

I thought about a fine too; but

I understand the power of benching the player.  It's humiliating.  But I just don't like punishing the whole rest of the team, which is what taking out your starting QB does.  The fine affects just the player.  I would just tell Watson, If you take on tacklers instead of sliding we're going to fine you and we're going to let Roger GoToHell calculate the dollar amount.    

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

I understand the power of benching the player.  It's humiliating.  But I just don't like punishing the whole rest of the team, which is what taking out your starting QB does.  The fine affects just the player.  I would just tell Watson, If you take on tacklers instead of sliding we're going to fine you and we're going to let Roger GoToHell calculate the dollar amount.    

I don't care if they have to do cartwheels wearing fanny floss as long as they get him sliding or trying to avoid contact.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:26 PM, Kvoethe said:

The Debacle is over!!!

Yeah...we are set back 10 yrs...but its finally over!!

362 days till a first round pick !!!!

Debacle? You think giving away all those first round picks was bad, yes?

Couch, weeden, Winslow, Mayfield, Manziel, William Green, Richardson, Warren, Courtney and of course butterfinger Edward's.

God yes, the Browns would never have achieved 1-31 and other greatness with all those "important" 1st round picks.

Whether Watson pans out has no bearing on the decision that was made.

The franchise wants a championship, Mayfield isn't taking anyone, anywhere. Watson was the best prospect available. Other teams dealt hard for him.

Gamble? It is all a gamble..However, they guy playing $100 slot machine is never going to be a millionaire.

Let the guy play,.bro..Let.him play.

[Kvoethe]

23 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Debacle? You think giving away all those first round picks was bad, yes?

Couch, weeden, Winslow, Mayfield, Manziel, William Green, Richardson, Warren, Courtney and of course butterfinger Edward's.

God yes, the Browns would never have achieved 1-31 and other greatness with all those "important" 1st round picks.

Whether Watson pans out has no bearing on the decision that was made.

The franchise wants a championship, Mayfield isn't taking anyone, anywhere. Watson was the best prospect available. Other teams dealt hard for him.

Gamble? It is all a gamble..However, they guy playing $100 slot machine is never going to be a millionaire.

Let the guy play,.bro..Let.him play.

He has played and looked like hammered shit doing so.  

[FY56]

On 5/13/2024 at 10:05 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

 

Let the guy play,.bro..Let.him play.

Oh hell ya. You gotta give him a pass for at least half a season to "shake off the rust".

Then "wait till next year" LOL

[FY56]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:16 AM, calfoxwc said:

I think they signed Winston because he has a sense of humor, unlike watson and stefanski

 

Except that he wasn't trying to be funny.

The humor he generates has nothing to do with being witty, it has everything to do with him being a bumbling, fumbling, stumbling idiot. Like Joe Biden.

[TexasAg1969]

25 minutes ago, FY56 said:

Like Joe Biden.

Nah ahn ahn. Delete it.

[syd]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Nah ahn ahn. Delete it.

what kind of fruit cake can go from winston to biden ? oh wait ? my bad. a poli board member

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, FY56 said:

Except that he wasn't trying to be funny.

The humor he generates has nothing to do with being witty, it has everything to do with him being a bumbling, fumbling, stumbling idiot. Like Joe Biden.

Is Trump still falling asleep during his first of many criminal trials he's facing or does his legal team have a buzzer that goes off every time he shits his diaper? 

[Flugel]

5 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Is Trump still falling asleep during his first of many criminal trials he's facing or does his legal team have a buzzer that goes off every time he shits his diaper? 

This is supposed to be a guy that will put America 1st when he can't even put his wives and children 1st.  He can bellyache and cry STOP THE CHEAT - but could he stop the cheating?   Best of all?  It's all Biden's fault... 🤣

[ NOTICE ]  THIS SPOT LEFT BLANK ON PURPOSE.  THANK YOU.     

 

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, syd said:

what kind of fruit cake can go from winston to biden ? oh wait ? my bad. a poli board member

Don't worry. Pretty soon he'll be accusing you, Dutch and Flugs of violating the football board with politalk. 🦜🤫

[FY56]

 

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Is Trump still falling asleep during his first of many criminal trials he's facing or does his legal team have a buzzer that goes off every time he shits his diaper? 

 

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

This is supposed to be a guy that will put America 1st when he can't even put his wives and children 1st.  He can bellyache and cry STOP THE CHEAT - but could he stop the cheating?   Best of all?  It's all Biden's fault... 🤣

 

I suspected that would trigger someone.

But really guys, you two should post your liberal shit over in the poli board where it belongs. Thats where it belongs right?

9 hours ago, syd said:

what kind of fruit cake can go from winston to biden ? oh wait ? my bad. a poli board member

As for you Syd, even a circus monkey could make the connection.

[nickers]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

This is supposed to be a guy that will put America 1st when he can't even put his wives and children 1st.  He can bellyache and cry STOP THE CHEAT - but could he stop the cheating?   Best of all?  It's all Biden's fault... 🤣

 

Like Clinton did with Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky and a half a dozen others... Just sayin'...

 

Edited Saturday at 03:10 AM by mjp28

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Don't worry. Pretty soon he'll be accusing you, Dutch and Flugs of violating the football board with politalk. 🦜🤫

And like clockwork, the old queen does just this 🤣