Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 We'll be picking first so it's a no-brainer we'll take the best QB. If you think this is wonderful news - we prolly won't even have Braylons Edwards here any more. Robert Royal isn't an ideal matchup against anyone as the featured TE and we haven't found a reliable #2 WR. Other than that - things are perfect in the land of toss and fetch. Meanwhile, as the world turns in our backfield - there isn't a home run threat on game day that I've seen as of yet. We have 2 promising young olinemen (Thomas and Mack) while attention needs to be paid to RG and RT. Opie left us a nightmare. - Tom F. (I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict Loverboy HATES Colt McCoy before he's even drafted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefjerky Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 that's not going to solve anything, even if we draft mccoy we aren't going to be competing right away. build the oline and the defense first, then get a QB. build around the qb first, let's just stick with DA for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.mz Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm sorry Flugs, this McCoy stuff just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to us sucking balls right now. Does anyone think another green QB with a HUGE guaranteed salary is really going to turn this thing around? I'm still hoping either DA or Quinn shows some improvement in this YOUNG season, so we can pick another piece (LB, Safety, OL, RB, DE) near the top. And if we are going to draft another QB, can we please wait until the later rounds? This way, if/when he busts, it won't cripple us for the next 5 years. Call me a Retard, but I think Zombo's rationale is getting to me. I have Early-2007 DA Fever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 QB is a big decision. Every regime puts their stamp on one and hopes. For Clark/Palmer it was Couch. Clark/Davis it was Couch. Davis/Garcia it was Garcia. Savage/Crennel it was Anderson. Mankok will put a stamp on a QB. When and how is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Man I hope your wrong. I am so tired of this team trying to build a team from the QB down.. it has not worked.. When we had our initial draft I was ticked when we took couch.. I had wanted us to build the team around ricky williams or edgarin james.. a good running game to build on and build the trenches...then add the qb later after you start with a vet..Kind of the way Jacksonville did it by taking Tony Boselli.. then fred taylor after that...they got the qb brunnell from the packers for ..i think a 3rd or 4th rounder and went to the playoffs with coughlin for like 6 years straight.. I keep hoping we can build a team...all we get is rebuilding a team cuz we keep trying to insert a qb with no one else around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Just like the thread saying Ratliff should start... Jesus, a change at QB isn't going to change anything except fvck this team up more than it is. Putting in DA was a mistake and then keeping him in after he showed that all he's good at is finding the other team's DBs was an even bigger mistake. I want to win as much as everyone else and Quinn did suck it up in Baltimore but this is more than just the QB position right now. This team looks flat and uninspired. I don't know if that is coaching or if it's the players themselves right now but changing/drafting a new QB is not going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Just like the thread saying Ratliff should start... Jesus, a change at QB isn't going to change anything except fvck this team up more than it is. Putting in DA was a mistake and then keeping him in after he showed that all he's good at is finding the other team's DBs was an even bigger mistake. I want to win as much as everyone else and Quinn did suck it up in Baltimore but this is more than just the QB position right now. This team looks flat and uninspired. I don't know if that is coaching or if it's the players themselves right now but changing/drafting a new QB is not going to help. Ratliff probably will eventually start because he is being groomed as backup QB. So lets say Mankok drafts a QB and starts Ratliff for a time in 2010, then gives way to new starter. It is like chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If we cant run the ball then how do we expect to be able to pass the ball? We have not had a real RB since we have been back, weed Head Willie was supposed to be the man under Butchy davis. And instead of drafting Adrian peterson we pick up a an old retread in JL. (a man who has had double the carries than any other back his age). Savage really kicked us in the A$$ with his trades and draft picks. I was hoping BQ would've worked out since we saw DA implode. Maybe BQ will get a 2nd chance who knows. maybe we will draft the next Farve, its a crap shoot any way you look at it. With the condition of our O-Line we might need to look at Tebow a more mobile QB. The young man is a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clbrowns Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I say trade Brady Quinn.Cause his days in Cleveland are over after the stunt at halftime.And after the season trade DA and draft a QB in 2010 to build the team around.Oh yea Fire Mangini and hire Cowher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 that's not going to solve anything, even if we draft mccoy we aren't going to be competing right away. build the oline and the defense first, then get a QB. build around the qb first, let's just stick with DA for now. I didn't post this to be popular or to coincide with convenience folks. I completely understand the argument against it as I alluded to in my 2nd and 3rd sentence reagrding the surrounding talent fetching passes here. Me personally, I've been wanting a guy like Greg Pruitt again for what seems like forever. Having a guy that can score from anywhere on the field can jump start an entire team on Sunday when he delivers that homerun. I miss that as much as anyone. But the truth of the matter is when somebody plays terribly enough to earn the pick of the litter - they know how tough it is to land one of these elusive elite QBs that just don't grow on trees. This compels them to draft the top QB prospect so don't shoot the mailman. Based on our experiences, I can say if we draft the best Center prospect, we aren't going to be competing right away since we've done this with Jeff Faine and Alex Mack. If we draft the best WR prospect, we aren't going to be competing right away or we would have been all set a few years ago. If we draft the best pass rush prospect - we aren't going to compete right away or we would have been all set when Wimbley had 11 sacks as a rookie. Winslow was thought to be the best TE and we didn't win right away. NOW, the following cruddy teams recently drafted a QB in round 1 and went from a losing team to a winning team: Atlanta drafted Matt Ryan and made the playoffs. Baltimore went from 5 wins to AFC Championship the year they drafted Flacco. Here's a couple recent examples where the rookie Qb has had a positive impact: Sanchez is winning already in NY while Stafford has already given freakin Detroit a win. If we had more conclusive evidence about Quinn prior to this draft - we might have drafted Sanchez and he'd be getting his experience right about now as we speak. It's NEVER convenient to draft a rookie QB but when you draft the guy like Indy did - it's not something they have to worry about repeating anytime soon. And how does winning at least 11-12 games every single season sound? At some point we gotta end this run of forgettable QBing here or we're going to remain forgettable. If you're thinking Tim Couch didn't work - guess who DID work just 1 selection later? Donovan McNabb. Philly's entire fanbase booed that choice because they wanted the same Ricky Williams that would eventually choose a marijuana sebatical over football. People were so certain the QB position wouldn't be enough to make the worst NFL team in 1998 anything decent in 1999. They were wrong and Philly has appeared in 4 NFC Championship Games and 1 Superbowl over the last 9 years since they went that route. Andy Reid noticed how the right QB choice changed life in Indy just a couple seasons earlier so he got a similar idea. Maybe we'll have the RIGHT personnel guru making the call this time around. I certainly hope so. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 We'll be picking first so it's a no-brainer we'll take the best QB. If you think this is wonderful news - we prolly won't even have Braylons Edwards here any more. Robert Royal isn't an ideal matchup against anyone as the featured TE and we haven't found a reliable #2 WR. Other than that - things are perfect in the land of toss and fetch. Meanwhile, as the world turns in our backfield - there isn't a home run threat on game day that I've seen as of yet. We have 2 promising young olinemen (Thomas and Mack) while attention needs to be paid to RG and RT. Opie left us a nightmare. - Tom F. (I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict Loverboy HATES Colt McCoy before he's even drafted) Nice uplifting post! I do know I will be watching McCoy more than normal the rest of the way, and will seek out a few Cincy games to watch Pike more....not to mention Bradford. If it was me. I might trade down again this year to work on some of the other positions you mentioned and start looking at some lesser qb to draft, or more likely, use our unstable qbs as a way to bring in a vet qb off the market...not sure who might be available at this point... But..if we go qb..so be it. I think the rest of the season is going to play out we won't have the first selection. I think we still have the chance to win 6-7 games, leaving teams like Det, KC, and Oakland drafting ahead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenby73 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm not the best person to assess talent so I'm not gonna try. If we draft Colt, or any other guy for that matter, I don't want him to start unless we shore up the right side and give him a running back. Then we need Momass and Robo to be ready cuz BE is gone after this year. Cribbs better not be what we're hanging our hat on. So either DA/BQ needs to stay, unless we can bring in a veteran qb that will be able to help raise up the youngster. If we can skip the qb position and plug a few holes first, I'm all for that. A little more talent surrounding the qb position and we give whoever is taking the snaps a better chance of being serviceable. Since that is in fact the way I'm leaning, I'm prepared for the Browns to do the opposite and take a qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm not the best person to assess talent so I'm not gonna try. If we draft Colt, or any other guy for that matter, I don't want him to start unless we shore up the right side and give him a running back. Then we need Momass and Robo to be ready cuz BE is gone after this year. Cribbs better not be what we're hanging our hat on. So either DA/BQ needs to stay, unless we can bring in a veteran qb that will be able to help raise up the youngster. If we can skip the qb position and plug a few holes first, I'm all for that. A little more talent surrounding the qb position and we give whoever is taking the snaps a better chance of being serviceable. Since that is in fact the way I'm leaning, I'm prepared for the Browns to do the opposite and take a qb. 1) Why would we want BQ to stay? - he's shown he's horrible. Dump him, trade him whatever. If we draft a QB, having BQ here will likely be a distraction. Frankly, I feel the same way with Anderson. If we're going to HAVE to start over at QB, then we need to bring in a veteran who can TEACH the new QB, not let him sit behind a couple of guys who have failed up to that point. 2) I keep hearing different posters say the Big 12 doesn't play defense. I have no idea if that is true; if it is, it frightens me off from either Sam Bradford OR Colt McCoy (who I like a lot) in the first round. 3) I HOPE we stop trying to get 'value'. If we have #1 or #2 overall, there WILL be elite talent on the board. We need to stop fvcking around and TAKE it. This team NEEDS playmakers. It's one thing to trade down and still get that elite talent plus amass additional picks, it's different to trade down and end up with a 'value' pick while we watch Mark Sanchez light up opposing teams, and Adrian Peterson run wild over the league. Screw that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Nice uplifting post! I do know I will be watching McCoy more than normal the rest of the way, and will seek out a few Cincy games to watch Pike more....not to mention Bradford. If it was me. I might trade down again this year to work on some of the other positions you mentioned and start looking at some lesser qb to draft, or more likely, use our unstable qbs as a way to bring in a vet qb off the market...not sure who might be available at this point... But..if we go qb..so be it. I think the rest of the season is going to play out we won't have the first selection. I think we still have the chance to win 6-7 games, leaving teams like Det, KC, and Oakland drafting ahead of us. Sorry for the downer! It's a coping mechanism. I'm finding I'd rather be pleasantly surprised these days so I've got the expectations where I need them right now. I DO hope you're right because nobody wants to be bad enough to draft first the following year. I'd like to see some leadership like your favorite college team has Ballpeen. I was hoping this would come on the defensive side of the ball from Shaun Rodgers since he's paid to be our X-factor; but I don't necessarily care WHO it comes from. I know many here are worried about players not liking Mangini and that kind of thing. That said, they SHOULD remember somebody is paying them extremely well to play like professionals. I wouldn't be here 365 days a year if I wanted doom and gloom this early. I know you know that. Let's hope that one thread comes true about a meeting behind closed doors. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenby73 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 1) Why would we want BQ to stay? - he's shown he's horrible. Dump him, trade him whatever. If we draft a QB, having BQ here will likely be a distraction. Frankly, I feel the same way with Anderson. If we're going to HAVE to start over at QB, then we need to bring in a veteran who can TEACH the new QB, not let him sit behind a couple of guys who have failed up to that point. 2) I keep hearing different posters say the Big 12 doesn't play defense. I have no idea if that is true; if it is, it frightens me off from either Sam Bradford OR Colt McCoy (who I like a lot) in the first round. 3) I HOPE we stop trying to get 'value'. If we have #1 or #2 overall, there WILL be elite talent on the board. We need to stop fvcking around and TAKE it. This team NEEDS playmakers. It's one thing to trade down and still get that elite talent plus amass additional picks, it's different to trade down and end up with a 'value' pick while we watch Mark Sanchez light up opposing teams, and Adrian Peterson run wild over the league. Screw that. So either DA/BQ needs to stay, unless we can bring in a veteran qb that will be able to help raise up the youngster. Yeah, said that. That would be ideal. But come on.... when was the last time anything IDEAL happened?! You can trade down and still get impact players. %'s go down a bit but it's a crap shoot. I'm just not going to set my hopes on anything specific. If I do, it's just going to make it worse for me when it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 So either DA/BQ needs to stay, unless we can bring in a veteran qb that will be able to help raise up the youngster. Yeah, said that. That would be ideal. But come on.... when was the last time anything IDEAL happened?! You can trade down and still get impact players. %'s go down a bit but it's a crap shoot. I'm just not going to set my hopes on anything specific. If I do, it's just going to make it worse for me when it doesn't happen. Missed that, but that's what SHOULD happen. I'm trying to think of the last impact player we got by trading down. Unless I'm missing someone, I can't think of anyone. How much of that is coaching and how much is just 'bad guesses'? We've gotten some decent players, but nobody that is truly ELITE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I say we skip on the QB's in the draft and go for an impact RB. I was thinking Javon Best but Cal was unimpressive last week so I don't know if that hurt his stock or not. What other elite RB prospects are there out there that we should keep an eye on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Mangini will trade down our #1 pick to around 15 or so and draft Taylor Mays, and we wil be 0-16 two years in a row. First time ever. Take that sh!t lions. Taylor Mays will be LONG gone at #15. When you're 6'3" tall weighing in at 235 pounds and running 4.3s with video collages of violent collisions - there's no way he gets out of the top 10. The only hope for sliding would be some kind of nagging injury that has him playing as pedestrian as he looked vrs Ohio State. Injuries are what made Adrian Peterson slide. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 We'll be picking first so it's a no-brainer we'll take the best QB. If you think this is wonderful news - we prolly won't even have Braylons Edwards here any more. Robert Royal isn't an ideal matchup against anyone as the featured TE and we haven't found a reliable #2 WR. Other than that - things are perfect in the land of toss and fetch. Meanwhile, as the world turns in our backfield - there isn't a home run threat on game day that I've seen as of yet. We have 2 promising young olinemen (Thomas and Mack) while attention needs to be paid to RG and RT. Opie left us a nightmare. - Tom F. (I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict Loverboy HATES Colt McCoy before he's even drafted) Keep things in perspective, Tommy. It is only one decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If we cant run the ball then how do we expect to be able to pass the ball? You don't have to sell me Mr T. I'm just saying teams that have the pick of the litter usually go Qb because they know they just won't FIND a wonderful QB growing on trees out there. It's not the way it works. Miami can RUN the ball but their gimmicks that caught everyone by surprise in 2008 - aren't working now that teams are dictating the need to beat them with their QB. We certainly haven't found this wonderful QB since Kosar left. That would be the last time we were consistent with winning in back to back seasons right? Greg Pruitt is the guy that sold me on the great tradition of the Cleveland Browns my dad was always talking about. He could score from anywhere on the field, which is wonderful in those close games and it helps open up the passing game. I think RB has shown to be a position where you can find absolute gems after round 1 year after year after year. Ernest Byner ring a bell? We obviously need more x-factors on both sides of the ball. If Taylor Mays came out in 2009, he would have been my favorite selection. He's still gonna be ideal BUT we have some serious needs for playmnakers all over the offense. I look at every upcoming game and ask myself the same question - WHO is going to be our go-to weapon. If I say Cribbs in the return game - that means teams gotta be scoring on us in order to see him so that's a conflict of interest. - Tom F. (If your buddy Flugel really knew what we needed - he wouldn't be holding a Dorito's Bag on Sundays) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Colt mccoy has a great arm, I would love to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Colt mccoy has a great arm, I would love to have him. If you noticed - QBs that have his type of size, strength and athleticism are the ones that extend plays. Guys that extend plays are Pittsburgh's Lucky 7, McNabb, Romo, Favre, Flacco, Cutler, Rodgers and more. Guys from previous years like this include: John Elway, Steve Young, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Steve McNair, Warren Moon and Joe Montana. Guys without the size that can/could extend plays: Drew Brees, Brian Sipe, Jeff Garcia, Joe Theisman and Fran Tarkenton. There's a few stationary Marinos with good pocket presence and quick triggers to avoid sacks like: Brady, Manning and Warner. That said, those don't seem to be the rule as much as the exception to it. Maybe new pre-draft assessment with find a way to judge vision at the speed of the game. That seems to be a forgotten variable everytime I hear another Kyle Boller aces his workout. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 For Anderson to stay here, he's gonna have to be great. It's just that simple. The Browns won't pay his bonus unless he's great he won't be tradeable unless he's great. He'll just become a third tier free agent. you sure you're ready to get back on the prediction-train yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If you noticed - QBs that have his type of size, strength and athleticism are the ones that extend plays. And if you haven't noticed, superstar QBs from the Big 12 rarely even make NFL rosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 For Anderson to stay here, he's gonna have to be great. It's just that simple. The Browns won't pay his bonus unless he's great he won't be tradeable unless he's great. He'll just become a third tier free agent. Great in our eyes, or great in the coaching staff's eyes? We already know that they consider 3 picks in 2 quarters somehow worthy of starting and 'positive'. We're going to be stuck with this guy. That's my gut. We'll probably get one of the QBs from next years draft and do exactly the same thing to him that has been done to Quinn. Unless, by some miracle of God, Mangini is fired and Schottenheimer, Gruden, or Cowher come in to take over this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 And if you haven't noticed, superstar QBs from the Big 12 rarely even make NFL rosters. That's true Loverboy! They don't play any defense in that conference outside of Texas and Oklahoma so let's see how he does in Bowl Games. He had a late scoring drive to beat Ohio State so maybe he has more to offer than others in his conference at the QB position. We shall see. Congrats on your hometown hero getting his starting job back. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 The top 2 quarterbacks in the draft this would be sam bradford and colt Mccoy and both of them are in the big 12 and we need to draft one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoth Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Sam Bradford is a superior NFL-style QB and he'll be #1 overall if a crappy team like us wants to ruin his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 QB is a big decision. Every regime puts their stamp on one and hopes. For Clark/Palmer it was Couch. Clark/Davis it was Couch. Davis/Garcia it was Garcia. Savage/Crennel it was Anderson. Mankok will put a stamp on a QB. When and how is the question. He already did. He stamped on Quinn's nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If you wanna be in the club, at least get real: Our two quarterbacks have sucked with few exceptions for about two years (Quinn against Denver, Anderson against the Giants). Quinn losing to Denver is not in the same universe as Anderson blowing out the undefeated Super Bowl champs on Monday Night Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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