The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 as evidenced by who's playing, the Quinn fans seem to have less perception. And your prejudices, as I said, control your perceptions. I don't have any prejudices either way..... I am trying to develop some by seeing what this guy can do...or cannot do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How about these bums. Should they not have been given up on? Stats from first games: QB #1: 10 games, 5 starts. 59 of 108 for 54.6% completion rate. 605 yards. 5.6 yds/att. 1 TD. 0.9% TD rate. 7 ints. 6.5% ints rate 47.0 Rating. 15 sacks for a 12.2% sack rate QB#2: 12 games, 10 starts. 124 of 248 for 50% completion rate. 1578 yards 6.4 yds/att 8 TDs. 3.2 % TD rate. 7 ints. 2.8% int rate 69.3 rating. 19 sacks for a 7.1 % sack rating In a lot of ways, Quinn's stats are superior to most of these. FYI, QB #1 was Sipe, QB #2 Kosar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Some would say he has performed as well or better than the 5 year veteran we have starting! When is that vet going to start performing better than a rookie? Any QB, coach, whatever, will tell you that EXPERIENCE is a key to how a QB can perform. I bet if you looked at Bernie Kosar's first 6 games as a starter, or Brian Sipes, their statistics would not be that much better. If you looked at DA's first couple games, he would be superior to all of them. Every QB has a period were he struggles. Last year and the beginning of this year have been it for DA. Why are you so anxious to pull the hook on DA and not let him develope but you wont pull in on BQ. Also DA is not a 5 year vet, he has maybe a total of 2 years of playing experience. Think about that, would you give up on Montana, Elway, Sipe or Kosar after to years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How about these bums. Should they not have been given up on? Stats from first games: QB #1: 10 games, 5 starts. 59 of 108 for 54.6% completion rate. 605 yards. 5.6 yds/att. 1 TD. 0.9% TD rate. 7 ints. 6.5% ints rate 47.0 Rating. 15 sacks for a 12.2% sack rate QB#2: 12 games, 10 starts. 124 of 248 for 50% completion rate. 1578 yards 6.4 yds/att 8 TDs. 3.2 % TD rate. 7 ints. 2.8% int rate 69.3 rating. 19 sacks for a 7.1 % sack rating In a lot of ways, Quinn's stats are superior to most of these. FYI, QB #1 was Sipe, QB #2 Kosar. Order of completion %: BS, BQ, BK Order of TD%: BK, BQ, BS Order of Int.%: BK, BQ, BS Order of yds/att: BK, tie BQ and BS Order of Rating: BK, BQ, BS Order of Sack %: BQ, BK, BS Also, yards per game: BQ 137.6, BK 131.0, BS 60.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yes, Quinn sure did do a lot of stat padding in garbage time, when teams were more than willing to give up the dink and dunk plays, didn't he? There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 What POS QB are you talking about? QB rating : Leaf 50.0 Anderson 71.0 % completions: Leaf 48.4 Anderson 53.5 YPA : Leaf 5.6 Anderson 6.5 TD/Int ratio: Leaf 14/36 Anderson 45/41 fumbles/fumbles lost: Leaf 24/12 Anderson 18/7 sacks: Leaf 65 Anderson 42 In what statistical category does Anderson have worse stats than Leaf? This is a what have you done for me lately league. Don't make me post Anderson's stats for this year. The guy has regressed badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 how many different ways can we mask a post that BQ was wronged? kinda like a tootsie pop.... but then you went and typed this gem...."And those professional talent evaluators are the know all and be of everything, right? Remember, they work for the Browns who haven't been able to judge decent talent for 10 years. " lets see, cause you make a good point. those same people that you charge can't evalutate talent for the last 10 years are the guys that pulled the trigger on the domer, and gave away picks while doing it. the next regime, whom you are trying your best to lump in with the likes of savage, have said, thru actions, that the domer isn't worth a damn and isn't worth looking at any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you looked at DA's first couple games, he would be superior to all of them. Every QB has a period were he struggles. Last year and the beginning of this year have been it for DA. Why are you so anxious to pull the hook on DA and not let him develope but you wont pull in on BQ. Also DA is not a 5 year vet, he has maybe a total of 2 years of playing experience. Think about that, would you give up on Montana, Elway, Sipe or Kosar after to years? Your point has some validity. DA has played in 35 games, started 27. That is just around 2 full seasons of games. The problem with DA is that he has not shown any progression. Quite the opposite, he seems to have regressed. Plus he has at least had that time....more than Charlie Frye, more than Ryan Leaf, to prove himself. WE think we know what we have with DA. We have no clue with BQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How many of you here are named Eric Mangini ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 how many different ways can we mask a post that BQ was wronged? kinda like a tootsie pop.... but then you went and typed this gem...."And those professional talent evaluators are the know all and be of everything, right? Remember, they work for the Browns who haven't been able to judge decent talent for 10 years. " lets see, cause you make a good point. those same people that you charge can't evalutate talent for the last 10 years are the guys that pulled the trigger on the domer, and gave away picks while doing it. the next regime, whom you are trying your best to lump in with the likes of savage, have said, thru actions, that the domer isn't worth a damn and isn't worth looking at any further. I am not sure I follow what point you are trying to make. Suffice it to say, that yes, the last 10 years of Browns personell selection has been exceedingly poor. I simply would like to confirm, either way, whether the selection of BQ was a continuation of this poor performance or not. The only way to judge that is to see him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Your point has some validity. DA has played in 35 games, started 27. That is just around 2 full seasons of games. The problem with DA is that he has not shown any progression. Quite the opposite, he seems to have regressed. Plus he has at least had that time....more than Charlie Frye, more than Ryan Leaf, to prove himself. WE think we know what we have with DA. We have no clue with BQ. If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How many of you here are named Eric Mangini ? good point, people can talk about how Queen was "wronged" until they are blue in the face, but they don't know jack about what is going on behind closed doors. Obviously the coaching staff wants nothing to do with him, for one reason or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis. exactly. Take a look at Queen's stats when the Browns are down by 14 or less and they will be a lot worse. He did a lot of garbage time padding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre The answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why bother arguing with him, haven't you fvcktards learned he isn't going to use his brain now? He never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 It is, of course. But, if you were just judging Cribbs by his receiver production, he would probably not be making the grade. Well he's not and should not be on the list. He's the MVP so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmac12 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I can only say that although you don't feel 6 games is enough time to evaluate BQ I would say that the coaching staff obviously does. They see him every day and they seem to feel as bad as DA has played that he is still gives the team a better shot than BQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I am not sure I follow what point you are trying to make. Suffice it to say, that yes, the last 10 years of Browns personell selection has been exceedingly poor. I simply would like to confirm, either way, whether the selection of BQ was a continuation of this poor performance or not. The only way to judge that is to see him play. you said, in the same breath, that our personnel decisions have been piss poor the last 10 years, and i fully agree. where you post gets weird is that after establishing that our past talent evaluators sucked, you then go on to make a case about the QB that our past GM mortgaged the farm for. see why that doesn't compute? then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass. point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 If you looked at stats which you seem to do alot, they would tell you he's the worst QB in the league. But in reality if you watch the game's you can see why his stats are so bad. If passes werent dropped on third down they would sustain drives longer, give the offense confidence and keep the D off the field and maybe score more. DA isn't as bad a QB you make him out to be, and he has shown improvements this year even though its not showing up in the stats or scoreboard right now. I beleive it will in the future and on a more consitent basis. Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there. Of course part of the "dropped passes" problem could possibly be that DA has no touch on his passes....though, if the receiver gets his hands on the ball he should catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 The answer is no. And you have no fu**ing clue whether that is the case or not. You might be right, you might be wrong, but your prejudice refuses to allow for not having that clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 you said, in the same breath, that our personnel decisions have been piss poor the last 10 years, and i fully agree. where you post gets weird is that after establishing that our past talent evaluators sucked, you then go on to make a case about the QB that our past GM mortgaged the farm for. see why that doesn't compute? then, to continue to cite the evidence that BQ is in fact a bust, this being his 3rd year, this was also confirmed by a coaching staff that has a much better player eval history when Mangini benched his ass. point being, you're still holding on to some hope that he'll be good (great, in your words), when all evidence points to the exact opposite. and your willing to waste more time and money on the experiment. i understand he's a hometown boy, but he's a square peg, and does not fit here. And the evidence is also true that Bernie Kosar and Brian Sipe should have been shipped out after their first season here. (Hell, remember that Sipe did not actually become the Browns starter until about his 4th or 5th season in the league). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 what evidence? im not making a case, either way, using stats. want to address the hole in the logic? edit: im not being sarcastic, and not faulting ya for likin the kid. but i dont understand how you can make the comment on our failed talent evaluators, precede it by a veiled attempt to trap people into judging stats, then follow it up with a plea to play the kid who was drafted by those incompetents. seriously, i dont follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well, I suspect that BQ had an equal share of those dropped passes when he was in there. Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes. And that was before the pittsburgh game. So your suspicions are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 So entirely sick of you...trying to defend 2 td passes and 6 picks and throw in two lost fumbles...Derek Anderson SUCKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 So entirely sick of you... Brady-baby is done. Accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Stats Inc had recorded 10 drops on DA passes and 4 drops on BQ passes. And that was before the pittsburgh game. So your suspicions are wrong. My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops, or alternatively, DA throws too hard when he doesn't need to, he throws behind or in front of receivers and they get hit with drops for passes that are off target. But, I am not really trying to make this a DA vs. BQ issue. I am simply saying that there is no reason to give up on a guy you haven't even given a chance to see how he plays. And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 My suspicions actually are proven correct on 2 accounts: DA has probably thrown 2.5 time more passes than BQ, thus he HAS had his proportionate share of drops at the time of those stats Anderson had thrown 84 passes, Quinn 93. So no, you're wrong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Here are the stats of some guys that, apparently, given their propensity, the Browns should give up on: Player 1: 5 career games played. 16 career catches. 278 career yards. -0- career TDs Player 2: 2 career games played. 1 career catch. 23 career yards. -0- career TDs Player 3: 2 career games played. 9 career runs. 15 career yards. -0- career TDs Player 4: 4 career games played. 5 career tackles. Player 5: 67 career games played. 25 career catches. 192 receiving yards. 1 receiving TD. Player 6. 38 career games played. 138 career carries. 676 career yards. 1 rushing TD. Player 7. 16 career games played. 13 career tackles. 1 caused fumble Player 8: 7 career games played. 95 career completions. 963 career yards. 3 career TDs. 5 career ints. 11 sacks Let me know if you think all of these guys should be dumped. Sorry Gipper...I am sure those are are all great players...we could list hundreds with similar numbers who totally sucked. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but in the end there are more losers who dick around with a poor player than those who let a good player go. Just go with the odds, you will come out ahead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 And, apparently the Browns agree. The trading deadline has since passed and he wasn't dealt, so they felt the need to keep him on the bench. ftfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkandstoopid Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Quinn's career stats: 7 games played. 6 starts. 93 of 171. 54.4% completion rate. 963 yards. 3 TDs. 1.8% TD% 5 Ints. 2.9% int. rate. 5.6 yds/att. 64.5 Rating 11 sacks. 6.0% sack rate. Compare DA: 35 games played. 27 starts. 554 of 1035. 53.5% completion rate. 6701 yards. 45 TDs. 4.3% TD % 41 Ints. 4.0% Int.%. 6.5 yds/att. 71.7 Rating 42 sacks. 3.9% sack rate. Look, who knows what could happen. Niether if these guys have had quality careers to date. All I want to know is if Quinn can be the next Brett Favre...or the next Ryan Leaf. And I don't know either way. I say give him 20 games...same as was give Leaf, same as was given Charlie Frye, to find out. So since Ryan Leaf was given 20 starts, the Browns should give Brady Quinn 20 starts to see if he's the next Ryan Leaf. Just great. By the way, if you hadn't noticed, Mangini actually coached Farve. He might have a clue on if Quinn is the next Farve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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