How to Get Kevin Kolb

[mopaji]

With the solid play from each of our DL, Shaun Rogers has become very solid trade bait. Especially to somebody like Philly who plays a 4-3. If we can package Rogers and a draft pick, I can see Philly being willing to part with Kolb for the right price. And it would be much easier to draft or signing a big DT and have him help out in year one if need be than drafting a QB. And losing Rogers' contract will allow us to pay Kolb and Cribbs. And I really feel like Heckert will do whatever it takes to get him here. He scouted Kolb, drafted him, and signed him. He knows what he is and I think with Holmgren's emphasis on QBs, he may let Heckert give a lot to bring one in. And Philly could use a higher draft pick or two. How does everyone feel about sacrificing a day one pick and Rogers for a solid young QB?

[DeadWombat]

I would do it, if Kolb is the real deal. He performed really well in Philly when McNabb was hurt; I was really impressed by him. At most I would give up a 2nd rounder + Rodgers... maybe our first rounder if there were some other incentives. The only problem is that I don't believe Philly has any intention of giving Kolb up. McNabb is old, Vick is.... well, Vick, and they see Kolb as the QB of the future. Last time I heard, Philly has no intention of letting any of their QBs go.

[Mark O]

I think that is the kind of package that it would take, but I really don't think that Philly is willing to give up Kolb for the reasons Dead mentions. McNabb has a couple years left at most and Vick is lousy. Kolb is the future.

[Thaak]

With the solid play from each of our DL, Shaun Rogers has become very solid trade bait. Especially to somebody like Philly who plays a 4-3. If we can package Rogers and a draft pick, I can see Philly being willing to part with Kolb for the right price. And it would be much easier to draft or signing a big DT and have him help out in year one if need be than drafting a QB. And losing Rogers' contract will allow us to pay Kolb and Cribbs. And I really feel like Heckert will do whatever it takes to get him here. He scouted Kolb, drafted him, and signed him. He knows what he is and I think with Holmgren's emphasis on QBs, he may let Heckert give a lot to bring one in. And Philly could use a higher draft pick or two. How does everyone feel about sacrificing a day one pick and Rogers for a solid young QB?

 

The only way we get Kolb is if the Eagles don't believe he's "the guy" of the future. McNabb's eventual long term replacement.

 

I mean, I suppose there could be an offer that the Eagles couldn't refuse, however, I believe, if the Eagles believe Kolb is "the guy" we'd have to give up a Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams type trade to get him.

 

The guy I think we stand a really good chance of getting would be McNabb. I think he'd be a great veteran stop gap to help us win games while we groom a youngster.

[DeadWombat]

The guy I think we stand a really good chance of getting would be McNabb. I think he'd be a great veteran stop gap to help us win games while we groom a youngster.

 

 

Thats a fine idea and all... but who is that youngster gonna be? You ask that to a group of people and you'll likely hear crickets.

 

 

 

My point is that there is none. None yet. No one is quite sold on any QB coming up in the draft, and the list of FA QBs for this year is laughable. Is there a rookie in the draft that will be the future Browns QB? Do you still think Quinn can do it? These are tough questions that have no easy answer and are left to Holmgren and Heckert to decide. Saying we can take McNabb (assuming its possible, which I doubt) is only delaying the inevitable when we don't have any plan for the future.

[Thaak]

Thats a fine idea and all... but who is that youngster gonna be? You ask that to a group of people and you'll likely hear crickets.

 

 

 

My point is that there is none. None yet. No one is quite sold on any QB coming up in the draft, and the list of FA QBs for this year is laughable. Is there a rookie in the draft that will be the future Browns QB? Do you still think Quinn can do it? These are tough questions that have no easy answer and are left to Holmgren and Heckert to decide. Saying we can take McNabb (assuming its possible, which I doubt) is only delaying the inevitable when we don't have any plan for the future.

 

Colt McCoy and Pike are two 2nd to 4th round picks that might be worth a look see.

[hoorta]

Colt McCoy and Pike are two 2nd to 4th round picks that might be worth a look see.

 

Yup, and LeFevre is another Mac qb getting some press.

 

I still see Quinn getting a decent shot this year, and then if he flops, going after a qb next year. I really think the Browns aren't close yet to a SB run,

 

Have to believe the Eagles think Kolb is the future, and the Browns would have to break the bank to get him.

 

[mopaji]

Yup, and LeFevre is another Mac qb getting some press.

 

I still see Quinn getting a decent shot this year, and then if he flops, going after a qb next year. I really think the Browns aren't close yet to a SB run,

 

Have to believe the Eagles think Kolb is the future, and the Browns would have to break the bank to get him.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. The story out of Philly seems to be that Kolb is the chosen one. We may have to give a lot more than we would like to get him but Tommy should know enough about him to make a fair decision. But I would love to bring him in. Plus, if Tommy is going to deal with Philly, negotiations should go pretty smoothly. But I can live with Quinn or DA playing another year and take a guy in the 3rd to prepare for 2011.

[Thaak]

We have to think, that if we do get Kolb for less than two 1st round draft picks and Corey Williams that he isn’t worth what we spend on him.

[Gips]

I like kolb far better than any available draftee..i would be good with pretty much whatever heckert needs to do to get him ,i cant really say the same about McPappy or hasslebeck...

[Flugel]

With the solid play from each of our DL, Shaun Rogers has become very solid trade bait. Especially to somebody like Philly who plays a 4-3. If we can package Rogers and a draft pick, I can see Philly being willing to part with Kolb for the right price. And it would be much easier to draft or signing a big DT and have him help out in year one if need be than drafting a QB. And losing Rogers' contract will allow us to pay Kolb and Cribbs. And I really feel like Heckert will do whatever it takes to get him here. He scouted Kolb, drafted him, and signed him. He knows what he is and I think with Holmgren's emphasis on QBs, he may let Heckert give a lot to bring one in. And Philly could use a higher draft pick or two. How does everyone feel about sacrificing a day one pick and Rogers for a solid young QB?

 

That REALLY isn't a bad idea at all. I know you (Mopaji) chimed in on that thread where I shifted gears from dodging bullets about my Troy Smith idea (for Dollar Store prices) to mentioning how unhappy Kolb and agent must be finding themselves playing 3rd fiddle to Michael Vick's 2nd fiddle. To be honest, I wouldn't think we should be the team giving up a day 1 pick if we send them an All Pro player for a QB that never got 2nd string duty in 2009. Unfortunately, we've never had a QB situation this crummy. Aside from Quinn's achey breaky shakey performance, we don't know if the 2 time IR inductee can heal or refrain from injury ahead.

 

Folks, I think Rogers is an Animal and he's All Planet at a position we've longed for upgrading. However, which one of his first 2 teams ever won 8 games BECAUSE of him? We didn't START winning and playing the kind of attacking defense we've longed for until AFTER he got injured. Maybe that's because we don't have to KEEP Rubin happy when he's already happy to be here doing what is asked of him; and he can be more the unselfish Bob Golic type of NT who's less apt for sacks but good at 2 gap. It just seems like OTHERS played better in Rogers' absence than they did when he was playing so it's worth noting that this move Mopaji speaks of wouldn't KILL us.

 

Rogers has a NAME that can bring us some GOOD exchange value; especially at a QB position they're more content on seeing Vick play. If it's an Andy Reid trainee, guess who the coachign ancestor is in this one? Mike Homegrown.

 

Mopaji gets an A+ here folks!!!

- Tom F.

[ballpeen]

At least you are starting to get realistic.

 

Rogers and a 2nd might get it done.

[BrownB499]

Rodgers...and we swap #1's

 

Those two acquisitions get Philly to the SB they want so bad

 

We get the QB we need + fill a need at their draft spot (24 ?)

[Mark O]

At least you are starting to get realistic.

 

Rogers and a 2nd might get it done.

 

 

I still think it would take more when you're talking about the QB of their future, who also had 2 huge games for them this year when McNabb went down.

[cambridgeho]

Rodgers...and we swap #1's

 

Those two acquisitions get Philly to the SB they want so bad

 

We get the QB we need + fill a need at their draft spot (26 ?)

 

 

That almost sounds like a great idea. With all the juniors declaring early, I think there would be value there at 26

[BrownB499]

I still think it would take more when you're talking about the QB of their future, who also had 2 huge games for them this year when McNabb went down.

 

 

Yea, I'm not so sure their as high on Kolb as we are

Having those weapons surrounding him and AR coaching makes having a huge game a little more doable

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see us do a deal to bring him here and I would think that a team on verge of the SB

would jump at the chance to add a Pro Bowl DL and a #7 pick in the draft, think about what that could do for their defense,that's the kind of stuff the Patriots used to do.

 

I would also think that Reid may fancy himself as somewhat of a QB guru,after all didn't this guy roll one those Detmer

kids out there a few years back? and actually won.come to think of it I believe he's won with every QB he's put out there.

[ballpeen]

I still think it would take more when you're talking about the QB of their future, who also had 2 huge games for them this year when McNabb went down.

 

As I said.....might get it done.

 

I was trying not to scare people. I do understand anytime you start talking qbs in trade or start talking pick positions where a qb is available, there is a pretty good premium attached.

 

With Kolb, I am just not sure how high that premium might be.

 

[Westside Steve]

Yea, I'm not so sure their as high on Kolb as we are

 

 

We?

WSS

[rich4eagle]

As I said.....might get it done.

 

I was trying not to scare people. I do understand anytime you start talking qbs in trade or start talking pick positions where a qb is available, there is a pretty good premium attached.

 

With Kolb, I am just not sure how high that premium might be.

 

I do not think the Eagles would give up Kolb for Rogers and a second. Rogers usefulness in a 4-3 is about over. His value as a player is about over. Plus he is 66% per cent player cannot play three downs in a row without being gassed. Our run defense was awful with the supposed run stuffer. He is overrated. The Eagles probably have no interest in him.

 

If we want Kolb it would take a first plus Rogers or some other package.

 

They probably realize the McChoke's time is coming to an end. And they surely are smarter than think Vick is a QB

 

Kolb would be nice it will take some other deal. Personally, I would never give more than a fourth for Rogers and make the Browns eat most of his salary. He was another /Savage blunder. The games at season end proved his worth to the D

[Zombo]

I think it's more likely we end up with McNabb than Kolb.

 

Mcnabb's 34, but would be well-protected behind the Brown's line and would give the team some veteran stability on offense.

 

If the Eagles decide to cut ties and commit to Kolb, then watch Heckert bring McNabb in.

 

Zombo

[choco]

thats the first time i've heard rogers called a run stuffer.

[Thaak]

thats the first time i've heard rogers called a run stuffer.

 

Then you haven’t been paying attention to what people are saying, or how Rogers is playing.

[mopaji]

Rogers is absolutely a great DT. But we play a 3-4. A scheme were DTs need only to not get pushed back. They are there to take up space and let the LBs accumilate the stats. For that reason, he's expendable for us and very very enticing to a 4-3 team were DTs are asked to make a lot of plays. I love his game, but we have a lot of areas to improve on this team so a trade would benefit us greatly without losing much.

[Thaak]

Rogers is absolutely a great DT. But we play a 3-4. A scheme were DTs need only to not get pushed back. They are there to take up space and let the LBs accumilate the stats. For that reason, he's expendable for us and very very enticing to a 4-3 team were DTs are asked to make a lot of plays. I love his game, but we have a lot of areas to improve on this team so a trade would benefit us greatly without losing much.

 

Actually, I don’t think you really understand how the 3-4 works. If all we needed was some big, fat, strong guy to squat down and not get moved, we could get a sumo wrestler. Or better yet, we could have kept Ted Washington. That worked real well didn’t it?

 

Yes, the basic requirements are that the NT doesn’t get pushed back, occupies one or two blockers, and allows the linebackers to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage.

 

However, if that NT can be disruptive rather than just immovable (think volcano rather than a mountain), then you have the difference between a crappy to average 3-4 to a great 3-4. Think of all the great 3-4 defenses and tell me one that didn’t have a disruptive NT.

 

I know I’d rather have a bulldozer than a wall.

 

Disruptive NT’s can cause significant problems in the running game. Because it can close off a lane giving the LB’s less to cover. It can also close off cutback lanes. Cutback runs produce the statistical majority of runs over 20 yards.

 

[lambdo]

I am definitely not in Camp Kolb. Personally I think Philly took a shot with him and missed...

 

This guy was a complete bust until this year where he only began to show glimpses.. he still won't hesitate to throw picks.

 

Troy Smith getting a chance would be better than this nob.

 

 

[mopaji]

Actually, I don’t think you really understand how the 3-4 works. If all we needed was some big, fat, strong guy to squat down and not get moved, we could get a sumo wrestler. Or better yet, we could have kept Ted Washington. That worked real well didn’t it?

 

Yes, the basic requirements are that the NT doesn’t get pushed back, occupies one or two blockers, and allows the linebackers to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage.

 

However, if that NT can be disruptive rather than just immovable (think volcano rather than a mountain), then you have the difference between a crappy to average 3-4 to a great 3-4. Think of all the great 3-4 defenses and tell me one that didn’t have a disruptive NT.

 

I know I’d rather have a bulldozer than a wall.

 

Disruptive NT’s can cause significant problems in the running game. Because it can close off a lane giving the LB’s less to cover. It can also close off cutback lanes. Cutback runs produce the statistical majority of runs over 20 yards.

 

 

I do understand a 3-4 and you are completely correct. I was just saying, it would be easier to draft/sign a large DT to take his place or just play Rubin than it would be to draft/sign a QB or just play Quinn or Anderson. The jist is, he is easier to replace in one year than a QB is. And the Eagles should be drooling over the thought of having him in their 4-3. We give them Rogers and a 2nd, they give us Kolb and a 4th.

 

I love Rogers. He is top 5 in the league at his position and would never want to see him go however, our DL played pretty well if not better when he got hurt and considering the needs this team has, him and Jerome Harrison have the most trade value right now. The deciding factor is that Rogers can be replaced. If we ran a 4-3, I wouldn't part with him for anything less than a 1st and 3rd. But its a 3-4 and the most important trait for a DT is to take up space. Its easier to replace that position in a 3-4.

[mopaji]

I am definitely not in Camp Kolb. Personally I think Philly took a shot with him and missed...

 

This guy was a complete bust until this year where he only began to show glimpses.. he still won't hesitate to throw picks.

 

Troy Smith getting a chance would be better than this nob.

 

 

We'll never get Troy Smith so lets forget about that. With Kolb, ask yourself who you would rather see behind Mack? DA, Quinn, or Kolb? That's why I put a higher premium on him. Plus, Philly seems to believe that he is absolutely ready to start for them. They even gave Vick 2nd team reps because they believe Kolb to be ready now. That's the biggest issue, will Philly even let him go?

[Alo]

D'Qwell probably would interest the Eagles. They have Stewart Bradley coming back from injury next year, but they don't have much around him. Will Witherspoon is expected to start on the weakside next year. DQJ likely would be an upgrade over him.

 

D'Qwell-Bradley-Fokou would give them a young, solid LB corps. He wouldn't be enough to get Kolb, but he could be a big part of the deal.

[browniebago]

The question i have is, why would you give up an important draft pick and maybe your best defensive player for an unproven quarterback, and yes he is unproven. I think it would be ridiculus to give that much for a career backup qb. We already have two of them. If we get a veteran qb and draft a qb in a mid round that would be our best bet. If Colt McCoy is still available in round 2, take him there. Too many holes on this team to give that up for Kolb. Kolb. He reminds me of a young Kelly Holcolm

[choco]

Actually, I don’t think you really understand how the 3-4 works. If all we needed was some big, fat, strong guy to squat down and not get moved, we could get a sumo wrestler. Or better yet, we could have kept Ted Washington. That worked real well didn’t it?

 

Yes, the basic requirements are that the NT doesn’t get pushed back, occupies one or two blockers, and allows the linebackers to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage.

 

However, if that NT can be disruptive rather than just immovable (think volcano rather than a mountain), then you have the difference between a crappy to average 3-4 to a great 3-4. Think of all the great 3-4 defenses and tell me one that didn’t have a disruptive NT.

 

I know I’d rather have a bulldozer than a wall.

 

Disruptive NT’s can cause significant problems in the running game. Because it can close off a lane giving the LB’s less to cover. It can also close off cutback lanes. Cutback runs produce the statistical majority of runs over 20 yards.

then explain the decrease in rushing yards given up when rogers went on IR. he gets himself outta position by slashing......leaving 2 gaps open where he used to be. he never did his job, because he's not a NT.