Flugel

That's a classic!

Outside of the final 2 minutes of the 1986 post season - that season was a very fond memory for me and my family. It was the re-birth of beating Pittsburgh at least once a season, which would be REAL nice to return to in 2019. It re-confirmed how important the running game has always been to the winning tradition of the franchise. From the physicality of Mack and Byner to the speed of Curtis Dickey to the ability to convert 3rd downs with Herman Fontenot (47 receptions for 559 yards). Little bit of everything to make the opponent feel like a whole lotta nothing. Chubb showed us plenty to get excited about. What's to say Hilliard can't give us what Fontenot did if it has to come to that? Meatball on spaghetti, only 10 of Kosar's 531 passes were intercepted to perpetuate the favorable time of possession advantage that had us understanding the best defense is a great offense (that doesn't turn over the football). It also allows the defense to rest and keep fresh legs when they do play less than 50% of the game as beneficiaries of the offense. Over the years people have brought up (the 2nd year QB) Kosar only threw 17 TD passes in 86; but he was also already on his 2nd OC (my fave- Lindy Infante). Infante took over an offense that had a RB and a FB rush for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 with goals of keeping ball control via accurate short passes from Kosar in lieu of handing off. We went from 76 receptions from the RB position in 85 to 122 receptions from the RBs in 86. IMO, that was a masterful way to prevent/sting the blitz despite the reality we had a cement shoe'd QB baiting it. Watching Kosar beat the blitz time after time to keep drives alive especially on 3rd downs featuring the 1-2 punch of undrafted RB Fontentot (47 receptions) and 4th round WR Brian Brennan (who led our WRs with 55 receptions) meant more to me than how many TD passes Bernie threw. Those are what led to the points we needed for 12 wins in a regular season. Today, Baker packs the same leadership cred with teammates while his performance has CPR'd excitement and enthusiasm throughout our fanbase. Meanwhile Dorsey added another pass rusher (Vernon) and talent DT (Richardson) to compliment Garrett and Ogunjobi upfront while he also drafted (CB) Greedy Williams to a couple young LBers to press people for playing time. My guess is the better we are up front and at the back end - the challenges of playing LBer get a little bit easier. When Williams had Peppers lining up in Toronto most of 2017 - the extended/boundary-free hook zones to the right and left of MLB (Schobert) had to leave him feeling helpless. The ole saying robbing Peter to pay Paul - Schobert was Peter while I never did find out who Paul was in that scenario. Anyway, we now have a collection of talent where we no longer have to look to smoke and mirrors despair that gashed this defense and victimized some positions as much as injuries. I get the feeling we can bring a much better pass rush than our 86 team which should only help the exciting talent/depth we have at CB. Gotta thank Dorsey for this kind of feeling about what he's building.

Well said Dutch! And I'm afraid the more he gets overlooked - the more the those in charge of the selection process feel that practice makes perfect with keeping him out.

Matthews has played every different LBer position extremely well in the 3-4 here when situations caused him to move out of his comfort zone to fill-in. That deserves a lot more credit than he's ever gotten for it. We had 2 game changers in the 1st round of the 78 draft. They were Ozzie Newsome and Clay Matthews. Coincidentally, the decade that immediately followed (80s) was the one the Browns frequented the playoffs the most in my lifetime as a fan. Both guys were great leaders on their side of the ball, that had great long careers for us. That length of reliability up against what Cleveland became throughout most of their absence only acknowledges 1 HOFer IMO I was at the playoff game where Cleveland was the last AFC Team to beat Buffalo in the playoffs prior to their 4 consecutive AFC Championships. What sealed the deal was Clay Matthews' interception of Jim Kelly at the 2 yard line. IMO, if this HOF selection process was done by NFL peers (opponents and teammates) - guys like Anthony Munoz, Bruce Matthews and Joe Delamielleure (who practiced against him) like they did other HOF players say Clay Matthews definitely belongs in the HOF. Even though Bruce is his brother, on the field of play they were division rivals that tried to beat one another. As much as I criticize Tony Grossi in recent years - he had a great article December of 2018 about Matthews being overlooked by the NFL HOF. And when Gene Hickerson finally landed in the HOF - it would have been nice if he still knew what his name was or where he was and why. Other guys get inducted after they die. Meanwhile, it allows Me-O in the midst of another meow tantrum to be inducted on his terms. I'd rather see someone like Clay that never put "I before team" than selfish entitled brats. BTW, TO never made a playoff caliber team a Superbowl Champion either; but he did blame McNabb while he called Garcia a homo after post season losses.

Are you confusing this with Ghoolie's Facebook Nickers? It's not a rumor that this kid was where he shouldn't be especially at an hour he shouldn't be considering the situation he has already put himself in. It's like giving a pyromaniac a box of matches and telling us not to worry because you told him to be careful. Oh okay, phew!

What the Steeler Trolls repeatedly misrepresented was that the balcony incident was in 1968. Guys usually don't get suspended in the NFL for an incident that takes place 3 years after they retired. Good luck getting a Steeler fan to understand that one. Unfortunately, that is also 1 time Pittsburgh fans don't want to hear the victim dropped all charges. I will reward their creativity for changing the truth from a 2nd story balcony to a 5th story balcony 5 decades later... All of that never changed the reality that Ben Rapen's victim count reached the plural while he was paid quite generously to be the face of the Steeler/Rooney franchise. Having said that, I will admit he was only a Volunteer Rapist... If I had a steel dome, I'd think he's a great kid too!

Precisely!

I hear ya FFD. I came in here posting about the Hunt thing; BUT found myself more interested in where the conversation went than the extended "nothing new to report" about Hunt. That will probably go all the way to Roger Goodfella who ADORES playing Yah-wey with our dumb jocks like Josh Gordon. The reality this idiot was where he was at the time of night or morning with his current situation means he's never going to get it. We heard the volumes of excuses for Josh Gordon, who's still getting suspended in the NFL's version of Camelot. I don't remember worrying about Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, and Mike Pruitt making dumb choices like Pac Man Jones any more than I have to worry about Chubb doing that. Isn't that a big reason those guys were/are a lot easier to root for?

Interesting stuff - thanks Reverend! Yeah, brass balls not to be confused with blue balls. Moses had more kids out of wed-lock than Shawn Kemp.

I showed up to a thread about Hunt and landed in a debate about Hell. Here's my beef with the Catholic Church and their religious instructions I wasted way too many years participating in. What part of excommunicating a divorced couple and their young children from the church exemplifies "don't judge others" and "forgiveness of sins"? So, if a spouse is repeatedly unfaithful - the whole family pretty much gets thrown out of the church, judged and unforgiven. That said, an allegedly celibate Priest going Sandusky on little boys hasn't been kicked out of the Catholic Church. He just gets sent to another Catholic Church where he can rinse and repeat the unthinkable (quite often under the same roof where most of the sacraments take place).

That first sentence is hilarious! The US Ladies win more games in 1 tournament than the US Men win in a decade.

You've been on the board wanting to share your passion about football and the Browns since I arrived back in 98. It doesn't matter to me that you never played. The common bond we all have here is our football team and the passion we devote to it. We all learn this game one way or another. If I can share an experience to a situation - I try to do so. I've always enjoyed your particular interest in the offensive line and sense of humor that first captivated me way back when Shep was rating QBs based on how good looking he felt they were. That sure led to some entertaining discussions. You've always done a great job of keeping your political views out of the football forum discussions!

And exactly where is that place after Duke was shopped at the combines, NFL meetings as well as before and all throughout the draft? The entire RB market replied with - we don't think Duke is worthy of trading an active roster guy or draft picks for at the salary Cleveland overpaid him to be anything less than #1. IMO, Duke is confusing the love he needs with the love he wants. The love he needs is in the place that made him the 9th highest paid RB (in 2018) of 32 teams that employ at least 3 RBs apiece. When you think about it - did anyone challenge Duke's comfortable niche of change of pace and situational reps as well as first dibs on injury fill-in reps all throughout 1-31 football? No; and we never got better for it. In 2018, the sum of Hyde and Chubb temporarily reduced Duke's reps prior to the mid-season trade of Hyde to Jax. That said, all 3 RBs had reps reduced prior to the trade and restoration of Duke's very comfortable niche. Now that we're seeing way more depth and talent at the RB and WR positions around the most promising QB we've had since Kosar, you better believe fans are going to be disappointed in Duke for the route he continues to choose in a year this franchise has high expectations. Bigger picture shows Duke has his comfortable niche uncontested again for at least the first 8 regular season games of 2019. Duke's level of protest should be red-flagging an already disinterested market - that this is how the guy responds to the first big challenges a better football team demands of him after they gave him a huge raise. He's being asked to compete for playing time just like the rest of his teammates. How is his employer getting this wrong?

I like your point Tour. I agree about the similar style to Duke with similar frames promoting that. That said, Hunt was the AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year in a feature back role because he's very talented. When you can rush for 1327 yards at 4.9 yards a carry w/8 TDs; and also contribute 53 receptions for 455 yards and 3 receiving TDs - you're an every down kind of talent. To your point though, will his frame support that kind of usage long term? Remains to be seen. I was just getting really annoyed with Duke whining like he's been treated really poorly here 1 year after a generous contract extension. Meanwhile, Chubb is the one keeping his mouth shut and going about his business like he did last year when the cream rose to the top. I've had mixed feelings about us adding Hunt. I know he's extremely talented; but he's the type of knucklehead that finds trouble too easily off the field for comfort. Duke and his agent have to know this. Not only that, Duke has the first 8 games to remind Dorsey why he felt compelled to give him such a generous raise/contract extension. He's choosing to be a distraction instead.

When guys like Manziel and Gordon are more interested in various methods of partying that their professional careers prohibit - there's very little chance they are ever going to offer the integrity to succeed or be dedicated. They want the money but they aren't willing to dedicate themselves to the commitment of earning it. Kizer was very young from a program and coach that did zero to make him ready for the Pro Game. Then he was drafted by a 1-15 team with Hue as his HC and OC so the 0-16 Poseiden Adventure on Lake Erie was inevitable. Maybe GB will train the lad into a keeper status. Who knows... Another thing that makes or breaks QBs is their ability to speed read at the speed of the game the NFL commands. The once pronounced "Pro Ready" Brady Quinn developed a bad habit many of the scouts clinging to that never saw. He looked onto the ideal target of Jeff Samardzija all the time which can work in college. That said, when a QB comes to the NFL such a habit like that can be tough to break leaving a guy like Quinn lost. Brady's GPA reminded us he wasn't a stupid kid while his physique showed us he wasn't a lazy kid. All that said, was the sum of his college football habits breakable/coachable at the NFL? This was NOT a Pro Ready QB any more than Kizer was especially how high they were drafted IMO.

Who knows Gumbs... Belicheck may give us an old ping pong table in storage or some late 7th round pick he doesn't need in exchange for the peak-a-boo-boo career DeValve has continued to offer. Cajuste was the same guy. The only difference was he suited up and tried to play though injuries during training camp only to be told his slight improvement in blocking the last week or so was too little too late. I don't know if you remember this cup of coffee career - but we had a TE named Evan Moore out of Stanford. He got injured so frequently that 1 guy used to call him Evan Moorecelain. Like Cameron, Cajuste and DeValve, I believe Moore was also a WR in college. During a very short period of time here Moore proved he had great hands and could get open so our FO gave him a raise. Unfortunately, he had an inventory of head injuries to the extent he'd get concussions when his head wasn't any part of the collision. During the preseason of the year he had his raise, he had 1 or 2 concussions that prevented him from starting and participating in very many regular season games for us that year. Even Jordan Cameron had trouble staying healthy once he became a starter. After starting 14 games and earning a Pro Bowl honor in 2013, he only started 9 games in 2014. Then he went to Miami and started all 16 games the only season of a 6 year career (2015) only to start just 3 times in 2016. In all, he only started more than 9 games twice in 6 years. None of these guys remind of the 1977 SEC Lineman of the Year (Ozzie Newsome) according to the Atlanta TD Club and the Birmingham QB Club. Some Magazines and Publications have called Ozzie a WR in college but his HOF Coach Bear Bryant called him an "End" in his wishbone offense; and always praised his blocking skills first. It's probably why he put him over Don Hutson as the best "End" to ever play at Alabama. In some of the college offenses today - these guys with Tweener frames aren't being trained for dual purpose at all. As we've witnessed frequently, it's not just the mental/cognitive transition these guys struggle with. It's often the physical transition that overhelms these guys. When you think about it, even the dual purpose gems like the Gronks and Bavaros got beat-up so you can only imagine what the workload does to lighter guys (bulking up into a new niche) that weren't born to play the position... Maybe the biggest reason Gronk worked was because the last time he had a checkup from the neck-up in high school - the head specialist summarized the diagnostic as "we couldn't find anything." Hearsay gone viral in Western NY said Gronk's dad complained "I had to pay a ridiculous Co-Pay to hear my son doesn't have a brain? I've been saying that for years and didn't get a penny!" Sorry for ramblin on Gumbs.

FWIW here. Dating back to college, the biggest question scouts had about Duke was whether or not he could handle a full work load beyond just 1 season. IMO, Cleveland gave a guy like him the perfect niche and work load size. And all the while Cleveland sucked (inclusive of 1-31 football) - his comfortable niche was never threatened. In fact, the rinse-repeat of suckage gave him an unchallenged tenure in the sense we had so many holes to fill that if we swapped out our #1 RB - we weren't going to try to upgrade Duke too. This ultimately led to his big raise and contract extension in 2018. It also meant that once Chubb beat out Hyde for the workload - Hyde was became the odd man out (not Duke). IMO, Chubb has the bigger WTF questioning of the Hunt addition than Duke has. Not many rookie RBs can show up to a 1-31 caliber team and average 5.2 yards a carry throughout the learning curve. Even better, he's a quiet kid that keeps out of trouble. I would have preferred to see Duke use his anger and frustration about it on the field of play with memory of him being kept over Hyde. The most recent complaint I heard out of Duke's mouth was when he corrected a reporter with "they already tried to trade me!" He gave the reporter a look like if you don't already know this - you're in the wrong business. Anyway, my question to Duke is if you really want to be traded in lieu of showing you're the one we need - then why are you so pissed the FO has already tried to trade you? If nobody wants to give you the salary Dorsey gave you through 2021, who's really dis-respecting you? The RB market... A lot of guys leftover from that 1-31 football team are going to have their survival here challenged moving forward. Wouldn't the masses be complaining if that wasn't the case? I would hope so or we all need a check-up from the neck-up. We always hear NFL players need to be paid like entertainers, which is fine if your entertainment value treats the customers/consumers to something way better than 1 win in 2 years and/or something better than 2 winning seasons since 1999. The last thing some of us want to see is 1 guy on a contract extension (that hasn't had his comfortable niche challenged yet) complaining he wants to be traded as soon as there's enough RB talent here to challenge his reps the last 8 games.

Thatta boy with the length of write-up - appreciate the passion! Excellent summary and illustration of what Minnesota was able to do with Richardson's talent within a very efficient front 4. Gridiron chess gets fun when you have the attack pieces like that. Having only 2 reliable defenders up front last year felt like we were defending against a power play 2 men down all year. What started off looking like nobody was going to be able to stop the Ogunjobi-Garrett tandem on 1 side of the formation - became the reality our DC began to separate them to opposite sides of the formation to compensate for 2 major weaknesses (especially against the run). As you alluded to, it was fun watching the video envisioning something similar here with the 2 major upgrades to our front 4. I think that reality was a big reason why Williams had trouble getting consistent heat from the 4 guys upfront. I like your situational thought of using Avery like Minnesota used Barr. Barr has the wing span of a guy that is 6'5" when it comes to the outside arm while he keeps outside leverage. Even though Avery is only 6' he's more compact than Barr in the sense he can naturally keep a better pad height and win leverage that way. The biggest thing that jumped out at me about Richardson in the video you shared is how infrequently offensive linemen were able to sustain their blocks beyond the initial contact (inclusive of double teams). Nobody could even seal him off. That's exciting!

Has your out of town reporter shared which teammates confronted Baker yet? The out of town storm chasers are in hot pursuit of the first Cleveland Brown besides Duke that is furious with Baker. You can't have a tornado without wind even if BSPN's Adam Shefter says he heard there's wind somewhere (ie; announcing it's just about a done deal that Andy Reid will be the HC of the Arizona Cardinals right before the Chiefs named him as their new HC). Hear say leads to people like you swarming social media with false accusations like Baker said something about Duke's money. If you're going to go that route with unofficial, do you know who insults Duke the most about his money as a #2 RB? All those teams in the league that don't want to trade a player/draft pick just so they can pay a #2 RB the 9th highest RB salary in the league. That's a decent portion of the market telling Duke & Dorsey that Duke is overpaid. Since we're using your preference, I don't even have to provide the name of 1 team. See how easy this is? That said, a week or 2 ago I heard him correct a reporter in front of a camera and mic saying "they already tried to trade me." Okay Duke, so why don't you tell us what the bigger problem is? Never mind, I already took care of that for you. The only one putting "I before team" is Duke. Baker's comment about getting on board with your teammates reflects the same type of leadership earned by a young game-changing/ culture changing QB. The comment invites Duke to get onboard with his teammates or get out of the way. Let's not take this out of context to a player (Duke) angry he needs to be paid more. It's about a player pissed off Cleveland finally has a FO bringing in more talent and competition at every position they can. Most non-trolls know Baker was never handed a comfortable niche anywhere he has been; so he's the last guy that will feel sorry for an overpaid player acting out because his comfortable niche is being challenged. Duke's not responding well at all especially considering he has the first 8 games as a #2 RB to prove he deserves the same work load the final 8 games. I'm not seeing a guy that believes in himself. Well said! As to your point in bold above - that's another 52 reasons why we'll never see 1 teammate's name attached to confronting Baker.

I'm waiting to see what our new DC prefers to do with the personnel. I've always agreed with your perspective above. In the past, 1 gap schemes aimed at penetration up front haven't always been favorable for our LBers especially against the run. While Marty had a lot of critics for his asss pucker post season offense/prevent-a-win pass defense - his regular season defense was sound against the run. In fact, it was #1 against the run in 86 which was our only season in the last 5 decades that we won as many as 12 regular season games. The biggest thing that defense lacked was a Derrick Thomas nobody could block off the edge even though Chip Banks was drafted to perpetuate that kind of impact. That said, Reggie Camp/Sam Clancy and the 34 year old Carl Hairston (9 sacks) were very efficient at maintaining outside leverage on the containment funneling everything inside. Bob Golic wasn't a BIG dude by any means; but man did our 2 ILBs play some really good football from his consistent 2 gap integrity. Here comes a temporary exception to the rule or 2. When Bud Carson came here with his up-field 1 gap scheme, the 37 year old Carl Hairston kicked inside and gave us 6.5 sacks, MD Perry gave us 7 sacks, Al Bubba Baker gave us 7.5 sacks at LDE while Robert Banks added 4 sacks. MLB Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl as did OLB Clay Matthews meaning 2 of our 3 LBers were efficient enough for acknowledgement. Our defense was ranked 4th out of 28 teams at points allowed at 15.9 points per game. 1 year later the ship capsized and sunk. The defense ended up ranked 28th out of 28 teams at points given up. Bud Carson was fired with a 2-7 record; while the permanent look on Jim Shofner's face after the 911 operator asked him to hold said "No habla." The other example I can think of was D'Qwell Jackson playing his best/most instinctive football in terms of making most of his tackles at the line of scrimmage in lieu of 20 yards down field more of the time. In fact, he only averaged 2.5 tackles for loss prior to moving into MLB in 2011 when he enjoyed 12 TFL. Defense ended up ranked 5th out of 32 teams in points allowed with just 19.2 per game. The thing that used to drive me nuckin futs was watching us try to copy teams that were running a 3-4 Defense without anywhere near their personnel to pull it off the same. Some would say "well, it takes time and growing pains." While true, asking a fan base to repeat their patience with square pegging round holes via scheme all the time made little sense when the newbies in charge were just going to get fired. Too many bad dejavues for comfort. There's talent in this defense even somewhat at LBer if we can just keep Kirskey and Schobert healthy. Schobert wasn't a Pro Bowl alternate because he sucked. For the last 2 years, we've worked around injuries to at least 2 of the 3 LBers starting for significant portions of the season. You can vary 1 gap and 2 gap schemes up front. I've seen defenses do this where they slant the line to a wide side or to an offensive formation strength via 1 gap penetrations while they scraped the LBers the other way. You can also mix in an inside or outside X stunt where the LBer blitzes 1 gap and the dlinemen seals the other. It's not that tough to vary stuff up front. Know your chess pieces and treat us to the sic em, sock em and sack em we deserve!

Wow! Thanks for sharing that Orion. Per articles I read and 1 feature story I saw about Carter, I was always only led to believe Ryan cut him for a cocaine problem in spite of the comment "All he does is catch TD passes." I didn't realize it had way more to do with him not willing to run routes when he wasn't the primary receiver. However, it does make sense when I look at Ryan's choice of words. Not only that, Carter wasn't a really likable kid when he showed up to the NFL with a feeling of entitlement in a sense of WTF did Buddy owe him at that time? A big reason I chose Carter (in his career after Philly) for work ethic was when I read about him getting Randy Moss to work out with him leading up to one of the most insane WR rookie seasons ever. Moss said those workouts were brutal but they paved the way for 17 TD receptions in just 11 starts as an NFL rookie. Carter said he wanted to show him how to be a professional from the get-go. Then again, if there was 1 complaint about Moss it would be what he did when he wasn't the primary WR. Maybe a lot of the Hall of Fame voters saw what your friend and you saw via their reluctance to vote Carter into the NFL Hall of Fame right away. Long story short with special thanks to my editor Orion, let's just apply my previous statement of "if you work hard and adjust/finish precise routes - your QB will throw to you whether you're covered or not" to Jarvis Landry.

Me either. That said, I think Landry brings an important leadership intangible for the younger guys that doesn't get measured in stats, speed, etc. I mean this in a sense of work ethic as well as seeing him throw blocks or staying with blocks that other WRs don't do. We can definitely use that for at least 1 more season of this IMO. We've seen he doesn't have the jets to blaze by DBs any more than Cris Carter had them. He's just not as tall as Carter to be that same red zone TD threat (while Carter also had talented WRs like Jake Reed and Randy Moss in the same formation). What do guys like Landy and Carter show younger WRs? If you consistently work hard and adjust/finish precise routes - your QB will still throw to you whether you're covered or not. These types of veterans are invaluable. Even if just a coincidence, we had young WRs that improved their games last year like Callaway and Perriman. Understanding we haven't won more than 8 games since Joe Thomas' rookie season of 2007, I'm not in any hurry to get to 2020 with the roster and potential we're looking at in 2019...

Rumor has it, the husband of Duke's agent has been hitting the cyberspace message boards hard lately. I wonder how many times Duke tapped that guy's naughty wife while blowing off the voluntary mini camps for Frisky Business...

First, Terry Glenn was the UPI and SI Rookie of the Year in 96 so I'm sure he appreciated the kick in the pants after it was all said and done. When Parcells became the Head Coach of the Cowboys in 2003, guess who told his agent he wanted to go play there? Terry Glenn. In fact, both guys closed their careers in Dallas. Parcells was there 2003-2006 and Glenn was there 2003-2007. Does that happen without mutual respect earned? Football is the entertainment industry as they like to say especially when they want to get paid. Duke got paid and the guy that gave him the raise said he's not trading him yet. This ant hill doesn't have to be the mountain you want it to be for some reason. Now that we have a FO guy upgrading talent all over this roster - is this really all you want to dwell on?

So, now that you've finally educated yourself on the difference between a feature back and a 3rd down back - you know the difference between a #1 and #2 RB on the depth chart. Better player deserves more reps. We're not changing football here. Hunt will eventually threaten the feature back's reps since he was talented enough to be the AFC Offensive Rookie of the Year as a feature back (but missing 8 games could/should push that back to 2020). If Duke's role does diminish - then you agree with me that there is a #1, #2, and #3 RB based on who can help us most with their overall talent. The guy with the most limitations will be #3. Looking at your last comment - you and Duke agree that guy will be Duke. Again, is Dorsey here to deliver us a sorority house catering to whose got hurt feelings or a playoff team?