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Savage Drafts/Players We Passed


Sony Reed
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I still see people defending Savage draft picks so I decided to go back to Phil's 1st draft and look at who we drafted and the teams drafting behind the Browns and also players Phil passed on.

 

2005: Braylon Edwards.......Players selected after Edwards: Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, Pac Man Jones

 

2nd Round: Brodney Pool: Notable players selected after Pool: Michael Roos-Starting Tackle-Titans, Lofa Tatupu-Starter MLB Seatlle, Mark Roth-Starting DE-Miami, Khalif Barnes, Roscoe Parrish, Vincent Jackson, Bryant McFadden, Adam Terry

 

3rd Round: Charlie Frye: Notable players after Frye: Channing Crowder, Justin Tuck, Chris Henry, Brandon Jones, LeRoy Hill, Nick Kaczur

 

4th Round: Antoine Perkins: Notable Players we bypassed: Kyle Orton, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Elton Brown, Eric Ghiaciuc, Chris Canty, Daren Sproles

 

5th Round: David McMillen: Players we bypassed: Trent Cole

6th Round: Nick Speegle: Players we bypassed: Bo Scaife, Chris Kemoeatu

Andrew Hoffman

7th Round: Jon Dunn: Players we bypassed: Daven Holly, Matt Cassel, Daven Holly

 

2006: Kamieron Wimbley.......Players selected after Wimbley: Broderick Bunkley, Tye Hill, Jason Allen, Chad Greenwood

 

2nd round: D'Qwell Jackson..Players we bypassed: Duece Lutui, Daniel Bullocks, Roman Harper, Lendale White, Daryn Colledge, Marcus McNeil, Greg jennings, Anthony Fassano, Maurice Drew-Jones, Tony Scheffer

 

3rd round: Travis Wilson: Jerious Norwood, Freddie Keiaho, Frostee Rucker

4th Round: Leon Williams: Players we bypassed: Demetrius Williams, Wil Blackman, Stephen Tulloch, Leon Washington

Issac Sowells: Brandon Marshall, Barry coefield, Elvis Dumervil, Domenix Hixon, P.J. Daniels

5th Round: Jerome Harrison: Players we bypassed: Dewan Landry, Mark Anderson

6th Round: Lawrence Vickers: Players we bypassed: Antione Bethea

7th Round: Justin Hamilton: Players we bypassed: Marques Colston

 

2007

 

Joe Thomas.......Selected after Thomas: Gaines Adams, Levi Brown, Adrian Peterson

Brady Quinn

 

2nd Round: Eric Wright: Players we bypassed: Victor Abiamiri

No Picks in 3rd and 4th round

5th round: Brandon McDonald: Players we bypassed: Steve Breaston, Aundre Allison, Kolby Smith, Kevin Boss, Dante Rosario

 

6th round: Mellia Purcell: Players we bypassed: Tyler Thigpen, Ahmad Bradshaw, Chinedum Ndukwe

7th round: Chase Pittman

7th Round: Syndric Steptoe

 

Now does everyone still believe Savage is great in drafting players?

 

 

 

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This is just a bad exercise that proves nothing. First, you're implying that every pick was a bad pick, which we all know was not true. Second, you're assuming that the team had needs at every position that all of those 'passed' players were playing, which is not true. Third, you can do this exact exercise and highlight 'passed' players by every GM in the league, which would show that Savage is performing at or above every other GM in the league. And last, you're implying that the COACHING has no responsibility to COACH these highly graded players that Savage drafts.

 

Oh, and as one of your first examples you used Pac-Man Jones as an example of someone Savage passed on??? THANK GOD he passed on him, you wouldn't seriously want his distractions on this team, would you? Seriously?

 

And how would all of these 'passed' players perform under our coaching staff? Under our Defense and Offensive 'systems?'

 

Hindsight is 20/20, go back and look at how ALL of the draft experts graded out the Browns drafts once they were complete. Not once were they graded below a B.

 

So yes, I still think Savage is very good at drafting players based on team needs, and the profile of the organization.

 

 

 

 

 

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This is just a bad exercise that proves nothing. First, you're implying that every pick was a bad pick, which we all know was not true. Second, you're assuming that the team had needs at every position that all of those 'passed' players were playing, which is not true. Third, you can do this exact exercise and highlight 'passed' players by every GM in the league, which would show that Savage is performing at or above every other GM in the league. And last, you're implying that the COACHING has no responsibility to COACH these highly graded players that Savage drafts.

 

Oh, and as one of your first examples you used Pac-Man Jones as an example of someone Savage passed on??? THANK GOD he passed on him, you wouldn't seriously want his distractions on this team, would you? Seriously?

 

And how would all of these 'passed' players perform under our coaching staff? Under our Defense and Offensive 'systems?'

 

Hindsight is 20/20, go back and look at how ALL of the draft experts graded out the Browns drafts once they were complete. Not once were they graded below a B.

 

So yes, I still think Savage is very good at drafting players based on team needs, and the profile of the organization.

 

Another real question in my mind i whether or not the players he mentions are really any better than the ones we did choose. Except for one or two, none of the "Passovers" stand out that much to me.

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To be honest, u kind of made me believe in him more with that post if anything. i will never hold the first draft against him because if u remeber right he didnt have a full season to prepare for it. but majority of those picks i am pretty happy with, in other words i would have made them at the time. There's a lot of reasons to expect good talent there. Besides I what bothers me is the people who place the blame on him for players not developing. His job is to get the talent and the COACHES job is to develop. If you are upset with the outcome of the players who get cut, then some of the blame has to go on the coaches not all on Phil. Now not in Phil's defense, Phil is the one who is in charge of hiring the coaches...

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i agree with fool, the gipper and dawgpound. it's easy to second-guess someone after we know how good everyone really is. it's a lot harder to get it right when you've only seen the guys play in college.

 

as a GM, you have to be sure to get good players in the first two rounds, something savage has done. everything other than that is pretty much a crapshoot, and he's gotten a few good players out of the later rounds, too (mcdonald, vickers, hall).

 

you're really selling the guy short. his talent evaluation is pretty good. it's his PR that's not.

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QUOTE (Fooleeze @ Nov 28 2008, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is just a bad exercise that proves nothing. First, you're implying that every pick was a bad pick, which we all know was not true. Second, you're assuming that the team had needs at every position that all of those 'passed' players were playing, which is not true. Third, you can do this exact exercise and highlight 'passed' players by every GM in the league, which would show that Savage is performing at or above every other GM in the league. And last, you're implying that the COACHING has no responsibility to COACH these highly graded players that Savage drafts.

So yes, I still think Savage is very good at drafting players based on team needs, and the profile of the organization.

 

Foolz,
While I agree the coaching sucks and we need to upgrade it yesterday - Savage gave RAC a raise for 3 years of NO playoffs AND Granthom a raise for KEEPING us stuck on pause at ranking 31st defensively. That says "good job" not "improve or else..."

Phil has NEVER filled the need at Nose Tackle in ANY draft so it took us 4 years to give up and pay the RIGHT amt of money to get our apex of the D correct. 4 years. We whiffed on this many guys: Parker, Kelly, Hoffman, Oshinowo, and the worn and torn Ted Washington & Jason Fisk.

In addition, while some seem giddy over personnel choices at LBer like Wimbley, Jackson, Williams, Speegle, Peek, Orr, Stewart - Pittsburgh has continued to restock former All Pros like Joey Porter, Kendrell Bell, Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene with newer versions like Foote, Harrison, Woodley. They did a pretty good at getting Farrior in free agency. Not for nothing but wasn't Woodley available to us in the draft? Peek never satisfied Houston and he's been nothing but injured here so WHy we felt all set as is is puzzling when LBers are fuel that sparks a 3-4.

Now Savage's version of ideal Safety is Brodney Pool, who doesn't suck BUT is he ever going to be a guy opposing game plans need to account for on every play like Pollyneedsahaircut?

They didn't DRAFT Willie Parker because he didn't START at North Carolina. That said, their scout's stop watch read 4.2 and they saw build on the horse before they decided to put little cake down on him. His 82 yard TD run blew that Superbowl open for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh ALWAYS drafts guys KEEPABLE for their oline and dlines.

Ever since I saw Cowher get to Pitt, it didn't matter if their starting RB's name was Earnest Jackson, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis, or Willie Parker BECAUSE they've ALWAYS had a GREAT oline they mostly constrcuted from the draft. When they DID go free agent like Will Wohlford or Jeff Hartings, they didn't guess wrong like we did with Joe Andruzzi.

If I'm being honest, I don't think their new Head Coach is anything impressive and yet he'll have 2 straight division titles to his name because their PERSONNEL evaluators make his job easy.

When RAC had a STRONG supervisor over him and TALENT underneathe him - NOBODY questioned whether he can flat out coach or not. That said, it NEVER slam dunked he could work for a LESSER supervisor and LESS talent. Let's be honest about the front dline in NE: Vince Wilfork (1st rounder - productive), Richard Seymour (1st rouder - when healthy hard to find better), Ty Warren (1st rounder - pretty fricken good) . Also keep in mind that when/if Willie McGinest was putting a hand down he was at least 5 years less worn and torn than today. Before Wilfork, they had Ted Washington before he was washed up about 6 years ago. Also, one year NE lost both starting corners BEFORE the playoffs and they problem solved masterfully. Hence the beginning off Assante Sameuls' career. Now let me ask you - isn't THAT a pretty talented player for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick?

AGAIN, I agree the coaching here is not up to snuff BUT I'm not as confident in Phil Savage as others are. I know Masters deserves a football Doctorate because I could listen to him all day and it makes me feel a little better BUT Savage hasn't proven to anyone in Baltimore or Cleveland he KNOWS a great QB when he sees one. Sentencing us to Dilfer and Frye was cruel. It's not like Boller, Stoney Case or Chris Redman in Baltimore satisfied anyone either. If we're being honest, there's been indecision about WHO to commit to at QB since the day Charlie Frye was told he WON the QB competition over BQ and DA. The booes dictated another decision that worked temporarily in 07 because November and December didn't look anything like September and October - we just had a schedule where 12 opponents averaged 4 wins. There were 2 teams in Arizona and Cincy that DA's INTs absolutely broke our backs for any post season chances.

When I hear Trent Doofus at his job on tv saying the front office in Cleveland is completely clueless (where he hasn't said that about Seattle, SF or even Balt) makes me think he's right. There isn't anything to gain by saying such a thing and that's our reputation around the league unfortunately. Not saying it's all Savage's fault and there's a FEW choices I've liked along the way. HOWEVER, I'm not seeing all his draft choices we cut landing on other teams' starting lineups or rotations on the olines, dlines and at LBer. The ONLY good player that escaped here was Lance Moore who COULD have actually competed for punt return and WR duties. Seems like he doesn't need ear plugs for footsteps and he CTACHES passes and get this - SCORES TDs as a WR, which Nortchutt could not do. Savage fell in love with Cutt at every non-contact mini-camp seeing great hands and speed in and out of the cuts. Trouble is you throw the pads on and tacklers and he's a wussie. Truth be told, Savage said we had NOBODY to replace Norethcutt in the return so unfortunately I'm going to have to give a thumbs up to ONE of our coaches for considering cribbs to fill Denise's shoes with All Pro performance.

In the end, I JUST want to win for a FREAKIN change and I appreciate yuz all allowing me to vent. If replace head Coaches was the ONLY thing required - why are we ust using up strike 3? Doesn't that mean SOME of the fault is ABOVE Head Coaches? It HAS to be for example our procelain pillars Tim Couch, Courtney Brown and Policy's 3rd choice of Head Coach - Chris Palmer. If you think we're FINE at the draft - go look at what Pittsburgh has continued to do in it and tell me we've got 1 stinking LBer beter than LaMarr Woodely or 1 guy in the Secondary as impactful as Pollyneedsahaircut.
- Tom F.

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Flugel,

 

On the thing with the Steelers LBs, it is my opinion that those players are no more talented than the mess we have at LB. I simply believe that Dick Lebeau knows how to coach these guys up. He could take our LBs and make them look like All Pros, and we could take their LBs and they would probably cough up a furball here with our DCs. It is the sytem and the coach there that makes the Steelers D as good as it is, not the personell.

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the gipper's right. players, particularly LBs, that leave pittsburgh never seem to do as well as they did while they were there. it's the system that makes them great, not their individual abilities, though they are good on their own.

 

a better defensive scheme would make our LBs look much better.

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Being part of the school (or perhaps alone) of thought that Kam Wimbley's sophmore & junior slumps are results of piss-coaching, and not his ability or a "bust" on Savage's part, 2006 was a knockout draft for Savage (his second for the organization). We see what 2007 has netted us - some premier players in important positions, a starting QB, LT, 2 DB's (B-mac and & Wright had great years last year, and will come around with a new coach, I think). 2008 was a little rougher, but we got Rogers (and Quinn, depending which year you want to put him in), Hall, ?Bell?, ?Rucker? . .

 

But 2006: Kam, DQ (an absolute stud in middle), Vickers (pro-bowl alternate FB), Jerome Harrison (for those of you who haven't noticed my av - I think he is a legit NFL RB and is even more dangerous as part of a lightning/thunder combo). I only see two players in all three years that we "passed on" that I'd rather have: Justin Tuck (instead of Frye), and Brandon Jacobs (instead of Perkins).

 

We are building with talent (we arent there yet, but is any team ever there?), and a young fiery coach changes our team overnight.

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To be honest, u kind of made me believe in him more with that post if anything. i will never hold the first draft against him because if u remeber right he didnt have a full season to prepare for it. but majority of those picks i am pretty happy with, in other words i would have made them at the time. There's a lot of reasons to expect good talent there. Besides I what bothers me is the people who place the blame on him for players not developing. His job is to get the talent and the COACHES job is to develop. If you are upset with the outcome of the players who get cut, then some of the blame has to go on the coaches not all on Phil. Now not in Phil's defense, Phil is the one who is in charge of hiring the coaches...

 

 

IMO, I would have loved to have Brandon Jacobs, Marion Barber or Maurice Drew-Jones at running back then we would not have had to spend money on Jamal Lewis. We have been searching how long for a pass rushing outside LB well Mark Roth would lokk pretty good right now, and I am sure we could have used a Greg Jennings or Brandon Marshall and that money we spent on Stallworth could have been spent elsewhere.

 

Besides the players I just mentioned Savage has missed on guys like Michael Roos, Nick Kaczur and Marcus McNeil who would have us set at the tackle position the next 10 years, and a d-lineman like Justin Tuck would look pretty good along with Barry Coefield and how long have we been looking for a middle linebacker I'm sure Tatupu would look good.

 

All these guys were drafted in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round while we have the likes of Brodney Pool, D'Qwell Jackson and drafted stiffs like Charlie Frye and Travis Wilson.

 

Should Savage have hit on a few of these 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys more than he has then we could have taken free agent dollars and spent on other needs and thats what I feel many people miss, if you had drafted a Greg jennings would you have had to pay Stallworth all that money or drafted Brandon Jacobs in the 4th round we could have saved money given to Jamal Lewis and so on.

 

Look at our picks after round one and they don't look so good, true we have some good NFL players but we don't have any superstars or ready to be stars from that group, Brandon McDonald was a good pick in the 4th round be we are talking about a guy who at best should be a Nickle Back and not a starting NFL cornerback.

 

Is Brodney Pool or D'qwell Jackson soon to be Pro Bowl players?

Where is Charlie Frye and Travis Wilson? along with other stiffs like Issac Sowells, David McMillen, Antoine Perkins, Nick Speegle, Andrew Hoffman, Jon Dunn, Justin Hamilton

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Flugel,

 

On the thing with the Steelers LBs, it is my opinion that those players are no more talented than the mess we have at LB. I simply believe that Dick Lebeau knows how to coach these guys up. He could take our LBs and make them look like All Pros, and we could take their LBs and they would probably cough up a furball here with our DCs. It is the sytem and the coach there that makes the Steelers D as good as it is, not the personell.

 

Gipper - I disagree and here's why:

 

I keep hearing an inability to coach a talented group is the ONLY reason BUT we're losing sight of what brought RAC here?

1. A competant Supervisor that enabled (not restrtricted) success

2. Talented players that made him look like a better coach than he is

3. Character of players an NFL Head Coach can work with

4. Tom Brady turned a winless team into a SB Champion and DA does not compare with brains

 

Where was Vince Wilfork drafted?

Where was Ty Warren drafted?

Where was Richard Seymour drafted?

Where was Willie McGinest drafted?

Was talent within these guys or did it need to be invented by a genius? Weren't all 4 guys All Americans? They were.

 

Is playing LBer a challenge there? Not at all.

 

Their free agent acquisitions like Ted Washington 5-6 years ago and most recently Adalius Thomas were guys entering the BEST part of the career.

 

Honestly, do you REALLY think Babe Oshinowo, Andrew Hoffman, Nick Speegle, Ethan Kelly (whom NE cut), Chase Pittman, David McMillan are just guys that needed better coaching? If so, what rotation in this league is currently featuring any one of them?

 

I'm comfortable in saying when I coached high school football right out of college for a few years that you don't INVENT LBers or football players that WANT to hit people. You just don't. And MOST of these players have had 4 years of college with 4 years of high school ball before that to either GET the art of tackling or become scared of it. Our LBers only get brave when they can read the upperbacks of ballcarriers in pursuit. Sorry man. In fact, they're never even in position to square up and make a tackle. All I see are ankle-grabbers and guys that GET blocked. When Shaun Rogers needs oxygen, watch how bad they become. The ONLY guy I can excuse somewhat is Old man Willie and he was the only LBer hitting people with a shoulder and wrapping up at Buffalo. These guys don't even have their heads up so YES I can question professionals being talented enough if they don't know enough to keep their heads up when trying to make a tackle. If that needs to be taught this far into things we need a new GM today/yesterday for failing.

 

Does anyone on this planet really think LT needed Bill Belichick in order to be the guy he became? Nobody had to teach that guy sic em - it was God given. Did Mike Singletary really need Buddy Ryan to invent him or his character? It was God given so I see why the guy loves God. Just an FYI, they were both on the SAME Kodak All American poster I had on my wall back in the day before the showed up for their first NFL snap. How about LBers that have transitioned to DEs like Jamir Miller and Jevon Kearse in their first seasons putting a hand down? They didn't need to be taught sic em and sack em for 3-4 years before GETTING it. That's god given and instinctful. Sure they probably worked on swim moves and rip techniques but change of direction and explosion off the ball can't taught if it ain't there.

 

I never MINDED the decision to select RAC as our Head Coach because I had a more faith he'd get the competant level of supervision that made him a candidate in the first place. I was also promised we'd improve the people we're drafting. Neither came true so I don't see how you see LBers scared to hit people represent coaching MORE than character. It only reaffirms why Bill Polian used to rationalize the necessity to go after guys with SOLID character. He's given the following Head Coaches their BEST years as Head Coaches: Dom Capers in Carolina, Marv Levy in Buffalo and Tony Dungy in Indy. Any arguements? So what I am saying is I don't think RAC forgot how to coach GOOD players (ie; Josh Cribbs, Joe Thomas, Eric Wright and Shaun Rogers). I'm saying he doesn't have ENOUGH of them to coach. I haven't been THRILLED with him to care if he stays or sprays BUT I know this disease is more dangerous than just 1 symptom.

- Tom F.

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  • 8 years later...

 

While I agree the coaching sucks and we need to upgrade it yesterday - Savage gave RAC a raise for 3 years of NO playoffs AND Granthom a raise for KEEPING us stuck on pause at ranking 31st defensively. That says "good job" not "improve or else..."

Phil has NEVER filled the need at Nose Tackle in ANY draft so it took us 4 years to give up and pay the RIGHT amt of money to get our apex of the D correct. 4 years. We whiffed on this many guys: Parker, Kelly, Hoffman, Oshinowo, and the worn and torn Ted Washington & Jason Fisk.

 

In addition, while some seem giddy over personnel choices at LBer like Wimbley, Jackson, Williams, Speegle, Peek, Orr, Stewart - Pittsburgh has continued to restock former All Pros like Joey Porter, Kendrell Bell, Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene with newer versions like Foote, Harrison, Woodley. They did a pretty good at getting Farrior in free agency. Not for nothing but wasn't Woodley available to us in the draft? Peek never satisfied Houston and he's been nothing but injured here so WHy we felt all set as is is puzzling when LBers are fuel that sparks a 3-4.

 

Now Savage's version of ideal Safety is Brodney Pool, who doesn't suck BUT is he ever going to be a guy opposing game plans need to account for on every play like Pollyneedsahaircut?

 

They didn't DRAFT Willie Parker because he didn't START at North Carolina. That said, their scout's stop watch read 4.2 and they saw build on the horse before they decided to put little cake down on him. His 82 yard TD run blew that Superbowl open for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh ALWAYS drafts guys KEEPABLE for their oline and dlines.

 

Ever since I saw Cowher get to Pitt, it didn't matter if their starting RB's name was Earnest Jackson, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis, or Willie Parker BECAUSE they've ALWAYS had a GREAT oline they mostly constrcuted from the draft. When they DID go free agent like Will Wohlford or Jeff Hartings, they didn't guess wrong like we did with Joe Andruzzi.

 

If I'm being honest, I don't think their new Head Coach is anything impressive and yet he'll have 2 straight division titles to his name because their PERSONNEL evaluators make his job easy.

 

When RAC had a STRONG supervisor over him and TALENT underneathe him - NOBODY questioned whether he can flat out coach or not. That said, it NEVER slam dunked he could work for a LESSER supervisor and LESS talent. Let's be honest about the front dline in NE: Vince Wilfork (1st rounder - productive), Richard Seymour (1st rouder - when healthy hard to find better), Ty Warren (1st rounder - pretty fricken good) . Also keep in mind that when/if Willie McGinest was putting a hand down he was at least 5 years less worn and torn than today. Before Wilfork, they had Ted Washington before he was washed up about 6 years ago. Also, one year NE lost both starting corners BEFORE the playoffs and they problem solved masterfully. Hence the beginning off Assante Sameuls' career. Now let me ask you - isn't THAT a pretty talented player for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick?

 

AGAIN, I agree the coaching here is not up to snuff BUT I'm not as confident in Phil Savage as others are. I know Masters deserves a football Doctorate because I could listen to him all day and it makes me feel a little better BUT Savage hasn't proven to anyone in Baltimore or Cleveland he KNOWS a great QB when he sees one. Sentencing us to Dilfer and Frye was cruel. It's not like Boller, Stoney Case or Chris Redman in Baltimore satisfied anyone either. If we're being honest, there's been indecision about WHO to commit to at QB since the day Charlie Frye was told he WON the QB competition over BQ and DA. The booes dictated another decision that worked temporarily in 07 because November and December didn't look anything like September and October - we just had a schedule where 12 opponents averaged 4 wins. There were 2 teams in Arizona and Cincy that DA's INTs absolutely broke our backs for any post season chances.

 

When I hear Trent Doofus at his job on tv saying the front office in Cleveland is completely clueless (where he hasn't said that about Seattle, SF or even Balt) makes me think he's right. There isn't anything to gain by saying such a thing and that's our reputation around the league unfortunately. Not saying it's all Savage's fault and there's a FEW choices I've liked along the way. HOWEVER, I'm not seeing all his draft choices we cut landing on other teams' starting lineups or rotations on the olines, dlines and at LBer. The ONLY good player that escaped here was Lance Moore who COULD have actually competed for punt return and WR duties. Seems like he doesn't need ear plugs for footsteps and he CATCHES passes and get this - SCORES TDs as a WR, which Nortchutt could not do. Savage fell in love with Cutt at every non-contact mini-camp seeing great hands and speed in and out of the cuts. Trouble is you throw the pads on and tacklers and he's a wussie. Truth be told, Savage said we had NOBODY to replace Norethcutt in the return so unfortunately I'm going to have to give a thumbs up to ONE of our coaches for considering Cribbs to fill Denise's shoes with All Pro performance.

 

In the end, I JUST want to win for a FREAKIN change and I appreciate yuz all allowing me to vent. If replace head Coaches was the ONLY thing required - why are we ust using up strike 3? Doesn't that mean SOME of the fault is ABOVE Head Coaches? It HAS to be for example our procelain pillars Tim Couch, Courtney Brown and Policy's 3rd choice of Head Coach - Chris Palmer. If you think we're FINE at the draft - go look at what Pittsburgh has continued to do in it and tell me we've got 1 stinking LBer better than LaMarr Woodely or 1 guy in the Secondary as impactful as Pollyneedsahaircut.

- Tom F.

 

 

Did someone forget to remind me what a huge Phil Savage fan I was supposed to be?

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Who the fuck even thinks about Savage anymore?

For what it's worth, while killing time at the draft, day 2. Of course the closest Beer tent was close to the Sirius Radio Tent where Phil got off after 3pm. I bought Phil a beer told him "this is for Drafting Joe Thomas". A large group of fans had a great conversation about Shine Bowl week & Phil really thinks this FO with time allotted is on the right track. But what Phil really misses the most is the great sports town of Cleveland that the fans bring to Cleveland..

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the point is, the Browns are NOW drafting with the right stuff criteria.

 

you include drafting criteria about character, LOVE FOR THE GAME,

self-discipline, work ethic, football smarts...

 

of course you end up drafting players who do well in the NFL, and of course,

you end up building a TEAM that plays together as a team, works toward winning

as a team.

 

Draft a "me first" jackrabbit doesn't help the locker room or help winning. Not a bit.

That criteria would have kicked jm, gordon, gilbert, weeden, quinn. etc.

 

the list of wrong players can make anyone ill.

 

It's tough enough to not miss on the right guys, but to draft for awesome athletic ability alone

leaves out the real criteria that drives players to make it and thrive, in the NFL and in the

communities and locker rooms.

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You all are aware that yer responding to a 9 year old post....right?....

 

Fluges dredged it up to feed the troll...er.....prove a point to ghoolash....

 

Thanks Mud. I deleted my response. I can't believe I missed that. :blush:

 

Mike

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You all are aware that yer responding to a 9 year old post....right?....

 

Fluges dredged it up to feed the troll...er.....prove a point to ghoolash....

 

Precisely! I just wanted to see exactly how big of a Savage fan I was considering how much Ghoolie desperately needs to bring that up all the time. Unfortunately, the only thing I learned was why Ghoolie can never use cut and paste. He's got no thing. Gee, there's a surprise.

 

My apologies for bringing this back and the absolute garbage I posted throughout this thread.

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Just like when he talks about predicting the w/l record of the Browns within +\- one game ever since they came back in '99 that has to be the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard.

 

While skipping his anti-depressants, Ghoolie powers down the depressants and gets the whiskey muscles after midnight. When he starts telling everyone he was the only one that was capable of predicting what would go right and what would go wrong - it's 100% fiction.

 

But he did beg Atenears to get his freedom of speech restored...

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I'm glad there wasn't a thread started about Mangini's drafting abilities.

 

We drafted Alex Mack, and I believe the rest of the picks were selling insurance 3 years later.

Mangina was / is a cancer all by himself.. I hated him...

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Phil Sewage was a coffee fetcher for Ozzie. I believe he also washed his cock-strap.

 

Foolgels LOVED Phil Sewage. He GUARANTEED that Phil Sewage was the REAL GENIUS behind Ozzie Newsome...............He also GUARANTEED that Romeo the shit-tub was the genius behind Belichik.

 

LMAO..........................

 

But but but....wait, it gets funnier........................... Now FluteGirl is pimping GREG WILLIAMS................... LMAO.....................

 

 

FluteGirl has strike out tatoos tatooed all over his pubis mons. It looks like this........... Savage (crossed out), Crennel (Crossed Out) Willie Green (crossed out) and now............. on the last bit of room left on his cunt pad, WILLIAMS........................

 

Get ready for the next x-out. He is going to have to let his snapper hair grow back to cover all the X outs.

I still think this is a Nashville vs. Memphis cage match. Except I guess Ghoolie is "Walking Out on Memphis". Has that happened...or when is it to happen.

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Mangina was / is a cancer all by himself.. I hated him...

He was like Butch.....forced into doing the GM job when he had no business doing so. Like Butch, he could have probably been a decent coach if he just stuck to that.

 

I mean, Jesus, Mary and Joseph.....Mike Holgren got rid of Mangini in favor of Pat Shurmur. How fucking lame ass of a move was that?

I bet Mangini could still coach in this league and do a decent job....give the right support...and the right QB. (again....the reason his old boss is considered a "genius" is based on two words: one starts with T and the other with B.)

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Didn't think you could get any more stupid than you already are trollie...

 

It's all right there in 0's and 1's...from flugs 'puter...yet you seem to have missed it cause, well, the lights pretty dim there in the attic.

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He was like Butch.....forced into doing the GM job when he had no business doing so. Like Butch, he could have probably been a decent coach if he just stuck to that.

 

I mean, Jesus, Mary and Joseph.....Mike Holgren got rid of Mangini in favor of Pat Shurmur. How fucking lame ass of a move was that?

I bet Mangini could still coach in this league and do a decent job....give the right support...and the right QB. (again....the reason his old boss is considered a "genius" is based on two words: one starts with T and the other with B.)

 

For the most part, this is a good post Gips. The only correction here is Butch wasn't forced into doing the GM job - he forced his way into doing the GM job. That's a lot to take on if you're only in your very first NFL Head Coaching gig especially when the record prior to Butch starting here was only 5-27.

 

Mike Holmgren slept in later than Dracula when he was our GM. He disapproved of the run first style of offense when we had Peyton Hilis putting in the Madden cover boy season while depending on QBs like Colt McCoy or Seneca Wallace or Jake Delhomme.So guess what he does next? He trades up from #4 overall to #3 overall to draft Trent Richardson (a RB). Couldn't we have just made Josh Cribbs our starting RB since that is what 4 years of taking the snap from Center and rushing the football at Kent State prepared him best to do?

 

We also threw away a 2nd round pick on a kid married to his bong (Potsy Gordon). He's only played in 5 games with 0 TDs since 2013 (on our best team since 2007) with only 1 of those performances resembling his work in 2013. That was after he assured us we'd see the best version of him yet. If this kid spent more time honoring football career Cleveland awarded him with rather than how he could pass a piss test while he continued to party - he might have a bigger fan base than the extremely hopeful/gullable fans thinking it's all been just a conspiracy. Ghoolie is his Linus in the Pumpkin patch waiting for Great Pumpkin while a little TN Stupid Juice, flash light and Playgirl Magazine takes care of spare time.

 

The last game my dad saw before he died was Pat Shurmur punting the ball into the end zone on 4th and 1 from the Indy 39 yard line in the 4th quarter when we were down by 7 or 10 points against something like the 31st ranked rush D. His comment was - "we fired Mangini for this pussy?" And how about the night Colt McCoy was knocked unconscious? The only guy that didn't see or hear that hit was our very own Head Coach (acting as OC on the sidelines calling our plays). Just 1 or 2 plays later he puts McCoy right back on the field.

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