USFBrown Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 What exactly did OSU get busted for, USF? Clarify. 5 players from the school were taking illegal benefits from NON-SCHOOL affiliated people. You know exactly what I mean. I'm not knocking the school, it's a great institution. The student are a major part of what make the school. Bush took money while at USC. USC got sanctioned. You can define OSU however you want, but maybe your definition is OSU is the brick and mortar buildings on campus. So therefore the buildings didn't get busted for anything. Spin it how you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sure they didn't give them money, but they certainly knew what was going on. I was under the impression that Bush received money from a former USC alum, maybe it was an affiliate. I'm not be-smudging a university. I think we're getting tied up with wording. Go tell any non Ohio State homer that the school is clean and you'll see what I mean. Edit: And you're saying a school is clean if the student athletes receive money from non affiliates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Not to be a dick, but on what basis? They just got freaking busted and you're saying they are one of the cleaner programs? Please explain... and don't forget to pass around whatever you're smoking. Here is why: because these kids, in order to get money had to sell their trinkets. The kids in many or most other programs in the country don't have to sell their trinkets to get money because they are being given money hand over fist under the table. It was the act of selling their paraphenalia that got the program in trouble. No sale of paraphenalia, no trouble. Paraphenalia selling leaves a trail that straight cash in hand doesn't. And what I am smoking is 30 years of legal experience and 20 years of judicial experience and any prosecutor will tell you that to prove your case you need documentable evidence. Leaving this trail of trinket selling gave the documentable evidence that straight cash deals don't give. Raise your hand if you are gullible enough to not believe the truth of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 The backers, the recruitment team, the AD, Tressel... None of the school officials gave these kids money. Why be-smudge a University (and USC too if that's the case, but I had heard Bush was hooked up through an affiliate of the school or a booster) for something their students do outside of school and the team? It makes no sense and if you think about it, is borderline insanity. If this is the case with USC, Bama, UNC, etc... Then those schools should be repaid for their losses. I wouldn't consider selling jerseys and team gear outside of the school and team. Any besides that, yes I hold them to that. The players know full well that when they accept that scholarship and play, everything good or bad will be associated with the school. If I go out and drive drunk, outside my work and get a DUI, I lose my job. I'm outside my work, but it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Here is why: because these kids, in order to get money had to sell their trinkets. The kids in many or most other programs in the country don't have to sell their trinkets to get money because they are being given money hand over fist under the table. It was the act of selling their paraphenalia that got the program in trouble. No sale of paraphenalia, no trouble. Paraphenalia selling leaves a trail that straight cash in hand doesn't. And what I am smoking is 30 years of legal experience and 20 years of judicial experience and any prosecutor will tell you that to prove your case you need documentable evidence. Leaving this trail of trinket selling gave the documentable evidence that straight cash deals don't give. Raise your hand if you are gullible enough to not believe the truth of this. That's a good point, but did the kids really need to get $40,000? I'm pretty sure they could have made it by in 4 years of college by not selling merchandise for money. You made a good point about the kids needing to sell the money, but the only reason you give the school being clean is because the kids sold their stuff for money (because, you're assuming the school wouldn't give them money). Tressel knew about the selling and I'm sure many others in football staff did too. I wouldn't consider that being clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 That's a good point, but did the kids really need to get $40,000? I'm pretty sure they could have made it by in 4 years of college by not selling merchandise for money. You made a good point about the kids needing to sell the money, but the only reason you give the school being clean is because the kids sold their stuff for money (because, you're assuming the school wouldn't give them money). Tressel knew about the selling and I'm sure many others in football staff did too. I wouldn't consider that being clean. OK, so lets say, hypothetically that of the 130 FBS program, 100 of them pay cash under the table to their players through alumni, affiliates, agents etc. And lets say the other 30 do not make those payments, but that the players at those other 30 schools in order to get some money sell the trinkets, books etc. that they get from the program. And lets say that the school learned about those sales but didn't report it. Whic program is "Cleaner"? The ones that directly or indirectly gave cash, or the ones that learned that their players were getting outside money from 3rd parties by selling the property that belongs to them? Yes, Tressel's downfall was that he learned about the sales of the paraphenalia from a third party and didn't report it. Is that worse than Coach X that says to Big Bubba Beauregard, program supporter to "give these here boys and their mamas cash, just don't let it be traceable back to you or me". Well the fact is that Coach X and Big Bubba Beauregard aren't going to get caught easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 All in all good points. It's nice to have a civil discussion about topics here. But my final point is that I did find it humorous that saying Ohio State is running a clean program after that has happened. I'll keep my opinions and you can keep yours. Fun discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowburn Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Right, but your company doesn't get government or industry sanctions or negative press because their employee got a DUI? You do, because you f!cked up. See what I mean? Also- I would consider selling their own personal items (jerseys and team gear), outside of the school. They broke an NCAA rule, not the University. Tressel did find out about it, handled it, and tried to cover it up and Tressel is gone because of it. With good reason. Regardless of the validity of the rule, which sucks, Tressel broke a rule that he signed paperwork for claiming he was adhering to. That is a crime and he was suspended for it and eventually resigned to avoid further punishment and possible firing down the road. What else deserves to be done to the University? I can't imagine a rationale for anything further. Take away the 2002 National Championship? HA, no. Take away the Sugar Bowl win last year? Maybe. The players were breaking rules and still allowed to play - HOWEVER, if the NCAA strips OSU of that victory they are TOTAL AND COMPLETE HYPOCRITES. Their ruling allowed those kids to play in that game AFTER the allegations and punishments were known. The 5 game suspension was enacted before the Sugar Bowl. To punish OSU after-the-fact is a JOKE. Then throw in possibly for fitting the Rose Bowl vs Oregon. That is another option since all of this was likely going on during that. Big Ten championships will also likely be on the line too as well as the season wins over the last 3 years. 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Maybe u should lay off the day drinking, how about it...? maybe for a little while? blasphemy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 All in all good points. It's nice to have a civil discussion about topics here. But my final point is that I did find it humorous that saying Ohio State is running a clean program after that has happened. I'll keep my opinions and you can keep yours. Fun discussion I said "comparatively" clean. And I still think it is true. Tressel's rule violation was passive..."not reporting" when he should have. In street parlance he would have been a hero for not snitching. Other schools are no doubt commiting much more active violations by paying players. More serious, not as clean, but much harder to catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 All in all good points. It's nice to have a civil discussion about topics here. But my final point is that I did find it humorous that saying Ohio State is running a clean program after that has happened. I'll keep my opinions and you can keep yours. Fun discussion I said "comparatively" clean. And I still think it is true. Tressel's rule violation was passive..."not reporting" when he should have. In street parlance he would have been a hero for not snitching. Other schools are no doubt commiting much more active violations by paying players. More serious, not as clean, but much harder to catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowburn Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 No doubt, as one of the gang, he would be considered a stand up guy. But, i feel, in his role as moral compass and mentor for his players he sorely failed. Heavy lays the crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 It is a tough situation for the guy. I feel bad for the way things went down. But ultimately they broke the rules and it gives a black eye to all just by association. Which isn't always fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Here is why: because these kids, in order to get money had to sell their trinkets. The kids in many or most other programs in the country don't have to sell their trinkets to get money because they are being given money hand over fist under the table. You might want to provide your proof to the NCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 You might want to provide your proof to the NCAA. That's just it. Cash transactions are hard to prove. Yet they for sure happen. As someone mentioned, at some of these schools the players parking lots look like a CEO convention was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheRoo Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that Pryor's agent had the nerve to say that NCAA is like slavery. Now to me this crossed the line and showed how idiotic they both are. First of all, how many slaves got $100,000++ scholarships to college and all expenses paid (food, books, dorms). Yeah just like football players calling the NFL slavery too, when they make MILLIONS. Apparently in this day and age, race has to be brought up in every situation. Lebron shits on the city of Cleveland, so everyone who hates him is a racist. Pryor got busted for doing something stupid, NCAA is racist. NFL players getting paid millions, racist. Makes a whole lot of sense to me...if Tim Tebow would have done the same thing, he would face the same penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The thing that pisses me off the most about this is that Pryor's agent had the nerve to say that NCAA is like slavery. Now to me this crossed the line and showed how idiotic they both are. First of all, how many slaves got $100,000++ scholarships to college and all expenses paid (food, books, dorms). Yeah just like football players calling the NFL slavery too, when they make MILLIONS. Apparently in this day and age, race has to be brought up in every situation. Lebron shits on the city of Cleveland, so everyone who hates him is a racist. Pryor got busted for doing something stupid, NCAA is racist. NFL players getting paid millions, racist. Makes a whole lot of sense to me...if Tim Tebow would have done the same thing, he would face the same penalties. There is a solution to that: the NFL or the NCAA can simply tell these guys: "fine, you believe this is like slavery? You are free to pursue your life and your career wherever it makes you happy. We absolve any and all connection with you. Go out in the world and make whatever you want of yourself. You just are not going to do it here. You are Free. Scream it from the Mountaintops." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b86b Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Sounds good I'll admit I've jumped on the bandwaggon of hating USC and laughing as their sanctions and turmoil flared up. I guess I can understand- A LOT of people are happy OSU is in this situation. It comes with the territory. No one likes the Buckeyes, in the press, or anywhere for that matter. For some reason everyone hates Ohio. It will be easy to pile on top of the Bucks. It's all opinions too like you said. None of us are lawyers (well maybe Gipper is) or actually deal in NCAA bylaws. None of us are in these decision making positions, none of us are in these guys shoes while they're in school being promised the world and given handouts left and right. I know for certain that it would be hard for me to turn down the stuff... I probably would have been A LOT less blatant and smarter about it... Why be flamboyant and expect not to get caught? Have you watched ESPN the last few years?? Their Buckeye love is sickening, reason why a lot of people hate them. Sick of hearing how "great" Osu is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Have you watched ESPN the last few years?? Their Buckeye love is sickening, reason why a lot of people hate them. Sick of hearing how "great" Osu is That is because OSU IS GREAT. So what? Don't like it? Bugger off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Have you watched ESPN the last few years?? Their Buckeye love is sickening, reason why a lot of people hate them. Sick of hearing how "great" Osu is Jeez....Mark May hates the Buckeyes. I guess you never noticed? He hates OSU, Notre Dame, & Michigan, just to be clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Kirk Herbstreet is the biggest buckeye hater of all time... and he xxxxing played for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBrownsFan Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Kirk Herbstreet is the biggest buckeye hater of all time... and he xxxxing played for them! Wrong. He is the most objective one of the whole ESPN crew. Just because he doesn't swallow the OSU Kool Aid you guys hate him. Irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Wrong. He is the most objective one of the whole ESPN crew. Just because he doesn't swallow the OSU Kool Aid you guys hate him. Irony. Anytime OSU plays somebody in the top 25, he says they are going to lose. He is the first person to say that OSU is going to get upset, to lose a bowl game, ect. There is being overly objective to make it seem like you not rooting for your amla mater and then there is literally shitting on them every week on National TV regardless of the opponent. Lee Corso picks the Bucks to win more than Kirk does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Just because he doesn't swallow the OSU Kool Aid Wrong. Let Ramzy of the awesome 11Warriors describe: http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/05/concrete-blonde "Herbstreit has been castigated wholesale by his own because he repeatedly speaks out of both sides of his mouth. Each and every time he is called out for that hypocrisy he has trashed the Ohio State fan base with the same strawman defense that you (people like BigBrownsFan above) keep swilling down without any critical thought whatsoever." And to those of you who still believe ESPN is "unbiased" vs Ohio State, read the following link: http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/content/25891-ohio-state-football-espn-controversy-over-conduct.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anytime OSU plays somebody in the top 25, he says they are going to lose. not for nothing but they usually do lose. they can't play SFU every week (sorry browns sfu fan). one tough cream puff in a season? pleez, love the bucks but no respect there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 not for nothing but they usually do lose. they can't play SFU every week (sorry browns sfu fan). one tough cream puff in a season? pleez, love the bucks but no respect there. Umm then why were they 21 and 14 when playing teams who finished the season in the top 25 since Tressel took over as coach. Ya they were a 8 and 10 in that time against teams in the top 10, but those are the teams where it is supposed to be a very close game. His record against teams finishing 11-25 is 17-4 yet everytime OSU plays one of those team Herbstreat calls for OSU to lose, probably because he never really managed to accomplish anything himself when he played there and doesn't want them to accomplish anything now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Jeez....Mark May hates the Buckeyes. I guess you never noticed? He hates OSU, Notre Dame, & Michigan, just to be clear. His "hate" of OSU, ND, and Mich. is simply a manifestation of his inferiority complex by having gone to Pitt. I suspect those other schools didn't think enough of his talents to try to recruit him, and he maintains that grudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Anytime OSU plays somebody in the top 25, he says they are going to lose. He is the first person to say that OSU is going to get upset, to lose a bowl game, ect. There is being overly objective to make it seem like you not rooting for your amla mater and then there is literally shitting on them every week on National TV regardless of the opponent. Lee Corso picks the Bucks to win more than Kirk does. Herbstreit probably picks against them so much just so he won't be accused of being a homer...so that he won't be accused of losing his journalistic "integrity". I can understand how that could happen in his position. But, I will say this: it seems that the OSU football program must also have a very fine alliance with their communications program, and a direct link to ESPN. Look at all the OSU guys on there as analysts. Herbstriet, Robert Smith, Spielman, Chris Carter....and I may be missing someone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think this is a good post and question. On one hand, the Browns haven't exactly gotten anywhere trying to sign goody two shoes players, and we have watched more than our share of good talent pass us by for personal reasons not directly related to football. I personally wouldn't pick him up, and here is why. 1) I think he would have an attitude about being converted. 2) He isn't a natural reciever and we would wind up with another Cribbs. Athletic, but unable to excell in a real skilled position. 3) I don't think he is very good at QB. 4) His OSU action portray him as a coward. He isn't going anywhere in the NFL. His 15 minutes of fame have flickered out. Again, I say: Show me one thing that Cam Newton has done in his career that that Pryor hasn't. (Besides winning the national title...yea, Newton's team won 1 more game than Pryor) Their career stats are as follows: Newton: 191 comp. 292 att. 2908 yds. 66% comp. pct. 30 TDs 7 ints 285 rushes 1586 yards 24 TDs Pryor: 477 comp. 783 att. 6177 yds. 61 comp. pct. 57 TDs 26 ints. 436 rush 2164 yds. 19TDs Note that Pryor started since his fresman year. Newton threw all of 12 passes in his fresh and soph seasons. For just their last season, here is how the stats matchup: Newton 185 comp. on 280 atts. 66.1 comp. pct. 2854 yds. 30 TDs 7 ints. 264 rushes 1473 yds. 20 TDs 5.6 ypc Pryor 210 comp. on 323 atts. 65% comp. pct 2772 yds 27 TDs 11 ints 135 rushes 754 yds. 4 TDs. 5.6 ypc Other than those 20 rushing TDs vs. 4 for Pryor, there is not a lot of statistical differences here that I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 And note: Don't talk to me about Newton's superior integrity over Pryor. Newton's family shopped his services for a couple of hundred K. In my opinion he got that money, its just that Auburn was far superior at hiding it. And also note this: Any discussion about these two now should have only to do with how well they will play in the pros. They will all eventually get tons of money, so whatever cash they may have gotten in college is irrelevent. To me, whatever team gets Pryor will be taking a commodity that is basically on the same level as Newton....are far less of a risk in terms of draft positioning. Along those lines, here are the comments from one respected NFL authority: Adam Jardy of Scout.com reports via twitter that former Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor has hired ex-NFL coach and current Monday Night Football analyst Jon Gruden as his trainer. Speaking at the 80th annual Ohio State Football Clinic in April, Gruden said that Pryor has dominated college football and could make it in the NFL. I have met Terrelle Pryor, had a chance to watch him. This is a freak of nature. This guy is really something with the ball in his hands. Pryor can run and he can throw and hes a hell of a competitor. "You might have to cater your offense, to a degree, towards his strengths, but I think this guy can develop his passing. His win-loss record speaks for itself. Hes not playing against the choir boys. This is a guy thats dominated college football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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