Mike Wallace?

[PoeticG]

Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.

 

Jealous? absolutely not.

 

...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s... ...and it's gonna be satisfying...

[jnuh]

I would much rather have Wallace then use the 4 on Blackmon. Thats just me though. Why gamble on Blackmon being a good pro when we can just trade for Wallace who we know is a stud. I would much rather somehow work a deal out with the Steelers where they would get the 22 instead or even better a second rounder, but the reality is I don't think they would trade him in the division unless they were getting something crazy ... like the 4.

[BadNewsBrowns]

Looks like Rapelisberger restructured his contract to saved them another 8 million so I doubt Wallace is going anywhere.

[choco]

why? that gets them back to even with the cap. just to tender wallace is 2.7mil, so thats another cut or restructure. to franchise would be 9+mil.

 

you need 4 mil for rookies...thats hines wards contract.

 

then they have to fill out the roster....figure another few million.

 

 

at best, they still have to trim 10 mil, and in this scenario, would lose wallace because they dont have enough to match and offer. so they'd need 18-19 million to franchise him....there's gonna be some serious cuts if they wanna ensure wallace stays in pitt....which is fine by me. cut off their nose to spite their face, just to keep big gay happy.

 

antonio is better anyway....

[USFBrown]

Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.

 

Jealous? absolutely not.

 

You watch yer tongue! It took a lot of hard work to EARN that 4th pick. And yeah... I'd trade the 4th pick in a heartbeat to get a proven #1 receiver. The state the Browns are in now, we need some solid players. The draft is a crap shoot.

[choco]

he wont come here anyway. he said in an interview with 93.7 the fan he wants a team with a qb. we dont fit that bill.

[BadNewsBrowns]

No way in hell would I trade the #4 pick to the Steelers for a freakin receiver when we don't have a Quarterback.

[choco]

No way in hell would I trade the #4 pick to the Steelers for a freakin receiver when we don't have a Quarterback.

would you take blackmon with that pick?

[BadNewsBrowns]

obviously not

[FSG]

The Browns are not about to trade the #4 pick in the draft for Mike Wallace. In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick. The only WR that was shipped out with a #1 pick as part of the exchange was Roy Williams -- how'd that work out.

 

For all the talk, the Steelers are unlikely to lose Wallace, a restricted free agent. For one, few teams will be willing to give up a #1 pick. Most quality GMs and NFL Personnel men value #1 draft picks more than casual fans and former lawyers who have innuendo-laced websites. The Steelers would probably be better off getting a #1 pick for Wallace, given their needs at the NT and OL position and the fact they have the enviable yet not enviable task of trying to sign Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders in addition to Wallace in the near future.

 

Personally, I would love it for the Browns to offer a contract to Wallace so that Pittsburgh would recieve the #4 pick in the draft....

[choco]

In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick.

well, not only was moss traded to oakland for a 1st rounder (7th overall), but it also included a player....napoleon harris. it doesn't invalidate your point, but its not without precedent.

 

id much rather get brown for free rather than trade picks for wallace. im hoping colbert bends over backwards and keeps prorating those bonuses till next year. if you keep wallace, you got no shot at retaining brown.

[FSG]

...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s... ...and it's gonna be satisfying...

 

This is the same BS you guys have been saying for years. Tony Grossi spewed that garbage in 2010 as he forecast the Steelers in decline and all they did was go to the Super Bowl and have back to back 12-4 seasons. Despite the Steelers aging core, they still have a better young base of talent than Cleveland - evidenced by the fact their biggest issue is salary cap space to sign all of their talent. The Browns have no such issues because they don't have enough talent to push the cap limits. The Steelers still have the franchise QB in Roethlisberger, and while you can spew out as many insults as you want about rape, calling him over rated or whatever makes you feel better -- the nature of his success has him on a path to Canton. The Browns on the other hand, not only passed on Ben to take KWII, they passed on Aaron Rogers and their series of draft day decisions led them to missing out on drafting Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman and Dalton - who have combined for 3/4 Super Bowls, 16 playoff apperances, 18 winning seasons and 2 15-1 seasons.

 

Below are comparisons of 1st round picks since 2000. Only in the instance of Joe Thomas vs. Lawrence Timmons did the Browns acquire a superior player -- and considering the entire draft, the giving up a #1 pick for Quinn while the Steelers selected another multiple time Pro Bowl LB in Woodley, the Steelers still had a better draft.

 

The Steelers stable front office, with Kevin Colbert leading the way, consistently finds quality talent. Mike Wallace was a 3rd rounder and has been better than any Browns draft pick since 1999 save for Joe Thomas, and that is just for starters.

 

So, go ahead and believe the Steelers are going to decline. Whatever makes you feel better, personally, I'll not lose any sleep at night over it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First round comparisons:

2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)

2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)

2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)

2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)

2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)

2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)

2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes

2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)

2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall

2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)

2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)

2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)

[Zombo]

 

First round comparisons:

2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)

2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)

2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)

2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)

2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)

2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)

2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes

2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)

2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall

2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)

2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)

2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)

 

Looks like the tide turned in 09. Oughta catch up to you on the field right about ... now.

 

Zombo

[Neo]

First round comparisons:

2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)

2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)

2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)

2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)

2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)

2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)

2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes

2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)

2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall

2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)

2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)

2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)

 

 

The ones in red I have no arguement against. But the ones in blue prove we are closing the talent gap.

 

Joe Thomas is the best LT in football.

Mack is better than overrated Pouncey.

Haden is better than Ike Taylor already.

It's too early to tell if Phil Taylor is better than Heyward. But Taylor is a SOLID pick so far.

Jabaal Sheard isn't Lamar Woodley, but his a beast and is getting better.

And well, the terrorist Mendenhall is garbage. I'll take Hillis all day over Mendenhall.

[BrownIndian]

This is the same BS you guys have been saying for years. Tony Grossi spewed that garbage in 2010 as he forecast the Steelers in decline and all they did was go to the Super Bowl and have back to back 12-4 seasons. Despite the Steelers aging core, they still have a better young base of talent than Cleveland - evidenced by the fact their biggest issue is salary cap space to sign all of their talent. The Browns have no such issues because they don't have enough talent to push the cap limits. The Steelers still have the franchise QB in Roethlisberger, and while you can spew out as many insults as you want about rape, calling him over rated or whatever makes you feel better -- the nature of his success has him on a path to Canton. The Browns on the other hand, not only passed on Ben to take KWII, they passed on Aaron Rogers and their series of draft day decisions led them to missing out on drafting Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman and Dalton - who have combined for 3/4 Super Bowls, 16 playoff apperances, 18 winning seasons and 2 15-1 seasons.

 

Below are comparisons of 1st round picks since 2000. Only in the instance of Joe Thomas vs. Lawrence Timmons did the Browns acquire a superior player -- and considering the entire draft, the giving up a #1 pick for Quinn while the Steelers selected another multiple time Pro Bowl LB in Woodley, the Steelers still had a better draft.

 

 

It is true. You are right that the Steelers are better than the Browns and if the Browns draft bad and have bad coaching then that will be the case for the future too. But you cannot deny that when compared to the Steelers acheivement of the past, you guys are slipping down. From superbowl champions - u guys became superbowl contenders and now did not even get past the Broncos to the next round. Your talismanic icon pollamallu is older slower and was caught more in bad defending decisions this year than last. Steelers are on the decline. You just do not realize it cos you are comparing your self to a non playoff team and thinking - yes we are better.

[hoorta]

It is true. You are right that the Steelers are better than the Browns and if the Browns draft bad and have bad coaching then that will be the case for the future too. But you cannot deny that when compared to the Steelers acheivement of the past, you guys are slipping down. From superbowl champions - u guys became superbowl contenders and now did not even get past the Broncos to the next round. Your talismanic icon pollamallu is older slower and was caught more in bad defending decisions this year than last. Steelers are on the decline. You just do not realize it cos you are comparing your self to a non playoff team and thinking - yes we are better.

 

Yes, their logic is "we're still better than you." Maybe for one more year.

[Vagitron]

The ones in red I have no arguement against. But the ones in blue prove we are closing the talent gap.

 

Joe Thomas is the best LT in football.

Mack is better than overrated Pouncey.

Haden is better than Ike Taylor already.

It's too early to tell if Phil Taylor is better than Heyward. But Taylor is a SOLID pick so far.

Jabaal Sheard isn't Lamar Woodley, but his a beast and is getting better.

And well, the terrorist Mendenhall is garbage. I'll take Hillis all day over Mendenhall.

 

Joe Thomas is very good BUT to compare his value to the value of Timmons and Woodley? Ya no. FSG is also comparing draft classes to which there isn't a close comparison at any point. His point WAS the Steelers draft amazingly well and continue to do so therefore a fall isn't likely to occur any time soon. You're comparing positions in some instances and classes in others.

[Vagitron]

It is true. You are right that the Steelers are better than the Browns and if the Browns draft bad and have bad coaching then that will be the case for the future too. But you cannot deny that when compared to the Steelers acheivement of the past, you guys are slipping down. From superbowl champions - u guys became superbowl contenders and now did not even get past the Broncos to the next round. Your talismanic icon pollamallu is older slower and was caught more in bad defending decisions this year than last. Steelers are on the decline. You just do not realize it cos you are comparing your self to a non playoff team and thinking - yes we are better.

 

Come on now. If anything the Steelers are reloading at veteran laden positions. Troy also isn't any slower and to imply that he is, is hysterical. He battle some lingering injuries but still made his usual insane plays over the course of the year. He still closes more ground than any safety in the NFL and gambling is part of his game. It's why Ryan Clark is so important. It should also be noted that Clark didn't play in that playoff game and it was a huge subtraction. However with the injuries on the line, in the secondary and with Mendenhall it wasn't in the cards for the Steelers this year. Last i checked the "declining" Steelers finished 12-4. You're a bit delusional. I just hope we get a crack at Cordy Glenn or Decastro. Better running lanes and more time for Ben equals bad news for the AFC North and the AFC in general.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

The Browns are not about to trade the #4 pick in the draft for Mike Wallace. In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick.

Outside of Welker (who was just an average WR at the time), all of those guys were known as problems and were possibly getting released if they weren't traded. In most cases, the teams took what they could get. You really aren't helping your argument with those examples.

[BrownIndian]

Come on now. If anything the Steelers are reloading at veteran laden positions. Troy also isn't any slower and to imply that he is, is hysterical. He battle some lingering injuries but still made his usual insane plays over the course of the year. He still closes more ground than any safety in the NFL and gambling is part of his game. It's why Ryan Clark is so important. It should also be noted that Clark didn't play in that playoff game and it was a huge subtraction. However with the injuries on the line, in the secondary and with Mendenhall it wasn't in the cards for the Steelers this year. Last i checked the "declining" Steelers finished 12-4. You're a bit delusional. I just hope we get a crack at Cordy Glenn or Decastro. Better running lanes and more time for Ben equals bad news for the AFC North and the AFC in general.

 

"the Steelers are reloading at veteran laden positions." - And the impact of that is showing in your playoff performances. Did the teams u beat give injury excuse when they lost to you in the superbowl? (Injuries are valid excuse - Lets be clear about that). But you are telling me that Ryan Clark was not there and that is the reason why the Broncos got all the touchdowns? I'm not buying that. Even with Ryan Clark I can see you guys having the same tough fight with Tebow and Denver.

[hoorta]

Come on now. If anything the Steelers are reloading at veteran laden positions. Troy also isn't any slower and to imply that he is, is hysterical. He battle some lingering injuries but still made his usual insane plays over the course of the year. He still closes more ground than any safety in the NFL and gambling is part of his game. It's why Ryan Clark is so important. It should also be noted that Clark didn't play in that playoff game and it was a huge subtraction. However with the injuries on the line, in the secondary and with Mendenhall it wasn't in the cards for the Steelers this year. Last i checked the "declining" Steelers finished 12-4. You're a bit delusional. I just hope we get a crack at Cordy Glenn or Decastro. Better running lanes and more time for Ben equals bad news for the AFC North and the AFC in general.

 

The tide may have turned starting in 2009. And as far as that list- you can throw out guys that are no longer on either team- Faine, Edwards, Burress, Holmes.

 

I'll grant the Steelers a big edge at LB, the qb gap goes away (rose colored glasses when we draft RGIII) Whines Hard is gettin' long in the tooth- so is Hampton. (I give you the edge @ wr because of Wallace) MHO is the D-lines are currently a push. Joe Thomas is better than anyone you have on your o-line, and Mack is darn close to Pouncey in talent level. Haden would be one of your starting corners. Ward isn't as good as Poly-moo-moo, but he isn't a slouch.

 

So assuming RGIII is the pick, and pans out- the Browns are a WR, LB, and RT away from the Steelers. I'd start worrying.

[FSG]

It is true. You are right that the Steelers are better than the Browns and if the Browns draft bad and have bad coaching then that will be the case for the future too. But you cannot deny that when compared to the Steelers acheivement of the past, you guys are slipping down. From superbowl champions - u guys became superbowl contenders and now did not even get past the Broncos to the next round. Your talismanic icon pollamallu is older slower and was caught more in bad defending decisions this year than last. Steelers are on the decline. You just do not realize it cos you are comparing your self to a non playoff team and thinking - yes we are better.

 

I concede none of that.

 

Winning a Super Bowl requires a little bit of good luck, as well as talent. Luck is getting healthy at the right time -- something the 9-7 Giants managed to do. The Steelers endured injuries to Pouncey, Roethlisberger and Mendenhall to close out the season. They were 12-4 in back to back years, one year they were healthy for the playoffs, one year they weren't. If the Steelers dropped the game to Denver at full strength, you may have something. But, they did not.

 

The injury to Roethlisberger is, in fact, what prompted some of Art Rooney II's off-season changes. He knows he needs a healthy Ben Roethlisberger and wants to see more of the quick strike, balanced offense that they showed vs. Titans, Cardinals and Patriots before resorting back to their normal offense under Arians.

 

The Steelers on the decline as been a recurring theme with Browns fans since 2002. You guys were calling for the end in 2003 and 2006. One of these days you'll learn that the Steelers management knows what it is doing.

 

And for the record, I haven't seen anything from the Cleveland Browns draft picks beyond the 1st round that remotely tilts the quality of drafts to Cleveland's favor.

[BrownIndian]

I concede none of that.

 

Winning a Super Bowl requires a little bit of good luck, as well as talent. Luck is getting healthy at the right time -- something the 9-7 Giants managed to do. The Steelers endured injuries to Pouncey, Roethlisberger and Mendenhall to close out the season. They were 12-4 in back to back years, one year they were healthy for the playoffs, one year they weren't. If the Steelers dropped the game to Denver at full strength, you may have something. But, they did not.

 

The injury to Roethlisberger is, in fact, what prompted some of Art Rooney II's off-season changes. He knows he needs a healthy Ben Roethlisberger and wants to see more of the quick strike, balanced offense that they showed vs. Titans, Cardinals and Patriots before resorting back to their normal offense under Arians.

 

The Steelers on the decline as been a recurring theme with Browns fans since 2002. You guys were calling for the end in 2003 and 2006. One of these days you'll learn that the Steelers management knows what it is doing.

 

And for the record, I haven't seen anything from the Cleveland Browns draft picks beyond the 1st round that remotely tilts the quality of drafts to Cleveland's favor.

 

The Broncos were also not on full strength. They had injuries too Brian Dawkins, Spencer Larsen, Eddie Royal,Von Miller, Jonathan Willhite were all injured too .... also the Steelers have no one but themselves to blame for aggravating Ben's injury. The Steelers have gone from being a regular at beating Baltimore to struggling to beat them even once in 2011. Like I said before stop obsessively comparing the Browns and Steelers. The truth wil become more clear then.

[BadNewsBrowns]

The Steelers endured injuries to Pouncey, Roethlisberger and Mendenhall to close out the season.

 

God damn right they did, all against the Browns. Fuck You Shitsburgh

[Vagitron]

The tide may have turned starting in 2009. And as far as that list- you can throw out guys that are no longer on either team- Faine, Edwards, Burress, Holmes.

 

I'll grant the Steelers a big edge at LB, the qb gap goes away (rose colored glasses when we draft RGIII) Whines Hard is gettin' long in the tooth- so is Hampton. (I give you the edge @ wr because of Wallace) MHO is the D-lines are currently a push. Joe Thomas is better than anyone you have on your o-line, and Mack is darn close to Pouncey in talent level. Haden would be one of your starting corners. Ward isn't as good as Poly-moo-moo, but he isn't a slouch.

 

So assuming RGIII is the pick, and pans out- the Browns are a WR, LB, and RT away from the Steelers. I'd start worrying.

 

There are rumors that Ward won't be back and it's been a point of discussion for weeks in the Pittsburgh media. I also don't care what kind of glasses you're wearing you aren't going to compare a rookie QB to a starting QB now widely regarded as top 5 at the position. You just can't do it with a straight face and our D-line is admittedly in Flux but we just drafted Heyward and he's yet prove much. I will also agree that Mack is close to Pouncey and I wanted Mack the year the Browns drafted him. Joe Thomas is tops or near the top for his position. I'm not even going to argue that point BUT as far as the WR's are concerned I'm not sure Wallace is even our best WR. You can look no further than Antonio Brown for that one. Therefore you aren't just "1 WR away" as you don't really have one that consistently produces and certainly don't have two pulling down 1000 plus yard seasons. Haden would also start BUT we have several VERY promising young guys that I expect to step in very soon. Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown both saw time as rookies and that's unheard of for the STeelers. Add in Carnell Lake as the Coach and our secondary was a strong point this season.

 

Now Brownsindian or whatever. (I don't feel like going back to look for the correct name) I'm not making an injury excuse because we should have never lost that game BUT yes I 100% believe that if Ryan Clark were playing we wouldn't have given up those long bombs to Thomas. Clark and Polamalu have a ridiculous on field connection and Clark was a subtraction because of his sickle cell trait. On the one play in particular Ryan Mundy Clarks back up was SITTING on the run when Tebow dropped back for the same ridiculous play action pass yet AGAIN. He blew that play wide open and it was the difference in the game. Clark also made the Pro Bowl this past season and lead the team in tackles. It was a big subtraction. Period.

[FSG]

The tide may have turned starting in 2009. And as far as that list- you can throw out guys that are no longer on either team- Faine, Edwards, Burress, Holmes.

 

I'll grant the Steelers a big edge at LB, the qb gap goes away (rose colored glasses when we draft RGIII) Whines Hard is gettin' long in the tooth- so is Hampton. (I give you the edge @ wr because of Wallace) MHO is the D-lines are currently a push. Joe Thomas is better than anyone you have on your o-line, and Mack is darn close to Pouncey in talent level. Haden would be one of your starting corners. Ward isn't as good as Poly-moo-moo, but he isn't a slouch.

 

So assuming RGIII is the pick, and pans out- the Browns are a WR, LB, and RT away from the Steelers. I'd start worrying.

 

That's a pretty big leap of faith, first not only assuming that the Browns will acquire RGIII (which will require a trade because you won't get him at #4) but to also assume that he'll close the gap on the QB position. Ben Roethlisberger may not be a popular person with the Browns fans, a brief look at the NFL records he already has, combined with the Super Bowls, and he is well on his way to Canton. RGIII may be a hot QB commodity now, but so was JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinhart, Sam Bradford and Mark Sanchez as their drafts approached.

 

There have been 19 QBs taken in the 1st round since Roethlisberger went #11 in 2004. Thus far, only Aaron Rogers and Roethlisberger have reached the elite status and maintained it all the way through winning a Super Bowl.

 

As far as your comparisongs -- maybe its just me, but do you think that other teams would consider giving up a 1st round pick for Massaquoi or Robiskie if they were a RFA like Wallace? Antonio Brown won the Steelers team MVP and has reputation for the hardest work ethic on the team. Emmanuel Sanders had an injury filled 2011, but has shown tremendous promise. That isn't even mentioning Heath Miller. The best the Browns have to offer is Greg Little -- so the WR comparison is not even close.

 

I actually will admit, I see promising play from the Browns DL. I honestly wouldn't mind having Phil Taylor taking over at NT. Although Hampton's career is coming to an end, if you understood the roles of DE in the LeBeau scheme, they are not primed to get big stats and thus cannot be judged by individual production, but more how they control the line for the LBs to make plays. And if you want to play the hypothetical game of rookies, imagine the Steelers taking Poe at NT, their line could be a force again - stacked with young talent.

 

Would Haden start at CB for Pittsburgh? Of course he would. However, they have a couple of young CBs in Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown entering their 2nd year who showed the same promise Sanders and Brown did as rookies in 2010.

 

Joe Thomas is the best LT in the game and Mack is extremely good. But the best LT in the history of the game will do less to help a team win a championship than the 5th best QB in the league any day of the week. And who is to say that Marcus Gilbert doesn't emerge as a quality LT after starting as a rookie.

 

Browns fans have loved to stick the fork in Pittsburgh --- and have done so so many times, it's the same as, wait till next year. The Steelers have proven time and time again to be the best drafting team in the league, replacing lost talent like Burress and Holmes with Wallace and Brown, Porter and Haggans with Harrison, the list goes on and on.

 

After 2012, you will all be pointing out about another Steelers player leaving and the impending doom. And you'll be wrong again.

[choco]

only in pittsburgh is big gay an elite QB. he was carried to a superbowl victory his second year....make no mistake about that.

 

every other elite QB does something ben hasn't been able to do, AND be successful at.....standing in the pocket, like a QB, and deliver the ball. considering the amount of plays he makes out of the pocket, and his stats still dont compare to any other elite QB in the league. he just finally broke 4k yards.

 

he's more of an enigma....his game works (for now), but in the end, he's gonna have to retire early while falling short of any meaningful statistical passing categories......unless haley gets him under control. perhaps haley can turn him into a pocket passer...i dunno. but rogers, brady, brees and both mannings are the top 5, with ben only in the conversation because he has 2 rings. every other metric for an elite QB, he's not really that close. he has an uncanny escape ability that causes a D to breakdown.....other than that, he's not special or unique.

[The Gipper]

Joe Thomas is very good BUT to compare his value to the value of Timmons and Woodley? Ya no. FSG is also comparing draft classes to which there isn't a close comparison at any point. His point WAS the Steelers draft amazingly well and continue to do so therefore a fall isn't likely to occur any time soon. You're comparing positions in some instances and classes in others.

 

On what planet do you get that Timmons and Woodley are as good at their positions as JT is at his? (Or are you combining the two?).

These guys are good players, maybe even Pro Bowlers, but neither of them ranks as high at their position as JT.

[Vagitron]

On what planet do you get that Timmons and Woodley are as good at their positions as JT is at his? (Or are you combining the two?).

These guys are good players, maybe even Pro Bowlers, but neither of them ranks as high at their position as JT.

 

He was comparing draft classes and if you do that it's not close. As far as position rank is concerned Lamar Woodley is up there and Timmons is certainly in the top 10 to 15 at MLB and he's still ridiculously young. Once again the discussion was drafting and draft classes. Choco i'm not sure what PLANET YOU reside but I'm fairly certain that Ben is consensus top 5 in just about every conversation outside of Cleveland. Hell even the Ravens fan base finds it in themselves to say the same. The senseless hate train is comical but if you want to be taken seriously you should act seriously from time to time.

[The Gipper]

He was comparing draft classes and if you do that it's not close. As far as position rank is concerned Lamar Woodley is up there and Timmons is certainly in the top 10 to 15 at MLB and he's still ridiculously young. Once again the discussion was drafting and draft classes. Choco i'm not sure what PLANET YOU reside but I'm fairly certain that Ben is consensus top 5 in just about every conversation outside of Cleveland. Hell even the Ravens fan base finds it in themselves to say the same. The senseless hate train is comical but if you want to be taken seriously you should act seriously from time to time.

 

OK, more in depth analysis would have to be made of the totality of particular draft classes. I would concede that any draft prior to 2007 the Steelers would have the advantage on. Not sure about past that.

On BR, I think it fair to say that it is a concensus that he is a Top 10 QB, but not necessarily Top 5.