Trayvon Martin

[MLD Woody]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQdsJwpSUKw&feature=related

Here is a breakdown of the audio. Its really hard to tell if it is punks or goons honestly. If I had to choose I think I might go coons but I wouldn't bet on it.


But, that shouldn't matter. Zimmerman still murdered someone and needs to be charged.

[The Cysko Kid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQdsJwpSUKw&feature=related

 

 

Here is a breakdown of the audio. Its really hard to tell if it is punks or goons honestly. If I had to choose I think I might go coons but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

But, that shouldn't matter. Zimmerman still murdered someone and needs to be charged.

 

That's without a doubt woody, without a doubt and I'm 100% with you there. He's a murderer and he needs to be charged with murder.

[heckofajobbrownie]

He needs to be charged with a crime if the investigation turns up enough evidence to charge him with a crime.

 

I think he's done something horrible. But he may not have broken that law. In which case, I hope this brings attention to how stupid that law is.

[The Cysko Kid]

It's all over the news. You haven't heard this? It's on his call to 911. There's some dispute about whether he's really saying "fucking coons", but it certainly seems like it. And the explanation from Zimmerman's camp - first that it was "punks", and then that it was "goons", and also that people say "coon-ass" all the time in that area, which is true, and also irrelevant - is sort of laughable. So I think it's fairly safe to say he called the kid a fucking coon. And that's probably part of what the DOJ is investigating. And it's certainly part of why this case has gotten so much attention. There are undeniable racial angles here.

 

And yes, I understand your point about hate crimes. I even agree with it in some respects. I'm not all that comfortable with hate crimes law. But I just think your arguments against it are off. Plus, the idea that it's "subjective" doesn't mean anything. It's subject to the burden of proof, just like any other claim in a court case. If you want to prove murder one, you have to prove intent and premeditation, or whatever. If you want to prove negligence in a tort case, same thing. If you want to prove that a defendant acted out of racial animus, you have to do that as well. And in hate crimes cases that bar is pretty high, which is probably why it won't apply here - because they don't think they can prove it.

 

Yes but so called 'hate' crimes...what can they do about it? It's not illegal to hate. If you kill somebody and the determine its first degree murder is it going to be first degree murder +1 because you hated that they were black? Is the sentance going to be worse? It's promoting racial seperation and the perception that certain races are protected. That in and of itself is a form of racism. Crime is crime, murder is murder. Punishment should be punishment. We as a society should be working towards the end of racism, not promoting it. Every time a white person is charged with a hate crime and a black one isn't, you're creating further racial tension, anger and all around bad relations. The point is its not fair. Black people have fought for hundreds of years to get a fair shot, and instead have gotten just another form of racism. A 'nicer' form of racism, maybe, but still racism.

[heckofajobbrownie]

To suggest that allowing federal law enforcement to prosecute crimes committed on the basis of color or sexual orientation is a form of racism is ridiculous.

[The Cysko Kid]

To suggest that allowing federal law enforcement to prosecute crimes committed on the basis of color or sexual orientation is a form of racism is ridiculous.

 

No its not. What does color have to do with the actual murders? You kill a black dude its a hate crime, you kill a white guy its just murder? That's ridiculous. Bunker is Retarded, but did post a story where there was a crime against a white kid for being white, and I notice you didnt comment on that

[MLD Woody]

No its not. What does color have to do with the actual murders? You kill a black dude its a hate crime, you kill a white guy its just murder? That's ridiculous. Bunker is Retarded, but did post a story where there was a crime against a white kid for being white, and I notice you didnt comment on that

 

I read the story. There was no indication it was because he was white.

 

 

 

Race A != Race B

 

Race A commits crime on Race B != Hate Crime

 

Race A commits crime on Race B + evidence of race related reasons == Hate Crime

 

 

 

edit: oh, better yeat

 

function checkHateCrime(int raceA, int raceB)

{

 

boolean commitCrime;

boolean raceMotivated;

boolean hateCrime;

 

incidentInQuestion(commitCrime, raceMotivated);

 

if (raceA != raceB && commitCrime == true && raceMotivated == true)

{

hateCrime = true;

}

else

{

hateCrime = false;

}

 

return hateCrime;

}

 

 

 

Sorry Cal I know I probably messed up my syntax somewhere

[DieHardBrownsFan]

All my Black friends think you all white boys are stupid.

[heckofajobbrownie]

No its not. What does color have to do with the actual murders? You kill a black dude its a hate crime, you kill a white guy its just murder? That's ridiculous. Bunker is Retarded, but did post a story where there was a crime against a white kid for being white, and I notice you didnt comment on that

 

Forgive me for not reading Bunker's posts.

 

But you're missing a huge point here - hate crime laws aren't just for black victims. Victims can be white, and often are. Again, this is why I think your criticisms of the law are so off. You're suggesting that "You kill a black dude its a hate crime, you kill a white guy its just murder?" No. Not at all.

 

Hate crimes laws don't kick in because a white person killed a black person, or even vice-versa. That's not how they work. That's not the legal standard that is applied. You seem to think it is, but it's not.

 

Go read the statutes. They don't apply to a white guy that kills a black guy over a gambling debt, or because of a bar dispute. You seem to think that the races determine the charge, but that's not true.

[The Cysko Kid]

Forgive me for not reading Bunker's posts.

 

But you're missing a huge point here - hate crime laws aren't just for black victims. Victims can be white, and often are. Again, this is why I think your criticisms of the law are so off. You're suggesting that "You kill a black dude its a hate crime, you kill a white guy its just murder?" No. Not at all.

 

Hate crimes laws don't kick in because a white person killed a black person, or even vice-versa. That's not how they work. That's not the legal standard that is applied. You seem to think it is, but it's not.

 

Go read the statutes. They don't apply to a white guy that kills a black guy over a gambling debt, or because of a bar dispute. You seem to think that the races determine the charge, but that's not true.

 

Can you post data of blacks being charged with anti white hate crimes? I just like to argue I can't be bothered to research, I'm at work.

 

*edit* ok, you're right, black people get charged with hate crimes, occasionally, I'm man enough to admit I'm wrong, but its still stupid as hell. Hate or not, as long as the crime is punished, what's the difference? Even you have to admit, though, there's a large disparity in hate crime charges.

[heckofajobbrownie]

You're fun to debate with. Your honesty is a breath of fresh air.

 

Here's an interesting column today on Republicans and race.

 

Kevin Drum's take:

 

"I think it's fair to suggest that liberals use race as a cudgel more often and more crudely than we should. The problem conservatives have is that this is pretty much the sum total of their take on racial issues: that liberals bring it up too often. When they write about race there's usually a pro-forma "to be sure" somewhere, but I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative take seriously — either generally or in a specific case — the idea that racism against ethnic minorities is still a genuine and important issue in America. If you inhaled nothing but conservative media, you'd think that African-Americans are endlessly pampered; that racial animosity is simply an invention of the "victim industry" these days; and that the white working class is the real object of oppression.

 

Barro is right: if conservatives want nothing more than to appeal to the racial resentment voting bloc, they're doing the right thing. But if they want to bet taken seriously on racial issues, they need to take them seriously themselves. If they did, their criticisms would have a lot more force."

[The Cysko Kid]

I read the story. There was no indication it was because he was white.

 

 

 

Race A != Race B

 

Race A commits crime on Race B != Hate Crime

 

Race A commits crime on Race B + evidence of race related reasons == Hate Crime

 

 

 

edit: oh, better yeat

 

function checkHateCrime(int raceA, int raceB)

{

 

boolean commitCrime;

boolean raceMotivated;

boolean hateCrime;

 

incidentInQuestion(commitCrime, raceMotivated);

 

if (raceA != raceB && commitCrime == true && raceMotivated == true)

{

hateCrime = true;

}

else

{

hateCrime = false;

}

 

return hateCrime;

}

 

 

 

Sorry Cal I know I probably messed up my syntax somewhere

 

You're reading the wrong story, human cent-iPad. I said the one bunker posted, yesterday.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

Elderly couple forced out of home after tweet claims killer of Trayvon Martin lives there

 

 

 

• inShare34

• AP
   
  March 23, 2012: Michael M. Krop Senior High School students carry signs and chant during a rally demanding justice for Trayvon in Miami Gardens, Fla.

SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

 

The tweets were traced back to a man in California and the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers.

 

The couple, aged 70 and 72, have been harassed with hate mail, been hassled by media and had scared neighbors questioning them since the tweet, their son Chip Humble told the Orlando Sentinel.

 

Fearful for their safety, and hoping to escape the spotlight, the couple have temporarily moved to a hotel.

 

The confusion seems to stem from the fact the woman's son is named William George Zimmerman and he lived briefly at the address in 1995.

 

When William Zimmerman pleaded with the man who tweeted the address, the man responded, "Black power all day. No justice, no peace" along with an obscenity.

 

Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot and killed Martin in a Sanford gated community on Feb. 26, with emotions and anger running at fever pitch while he remains free.

 

William Zimmerman said he used his mother and stepfather's address to register a car, get a drivers license and vote when he lived there after college.

 

"This is really scary, and I'm concerned for my family," William Zimmerman said. "It's scary because there are people who aren't mentally right and will take this information and run with it.

 

"To endanger people who are innocent because people are angry is not the answer. That's not how we're going to heal. It's not [going] to help the Martin family for someone else to be hurt."

 

 

[Mr. T]

All my Black friends think you all white boys are stupid.

My friends believe that everyone who is getting upset over this are stupid and are being played by the media. (Black or White friends if it matters)

They are more concerned over the economy and if they will have a job next week.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I must say, what Spike Lee did is incredibly idiotic.

 

Maybe it's me, but the best way to protest vigilantism might not be to inspire more of it.

[The Cysko Kid]

look what Obama has brought us too as a nation? what a turd he turned out to be.

 

Well at least he can probably spell 'to' and knows where it's appropriate to use a question mark.

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's a rather comical measure of the blind hatred for the president when he can't even say, "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon" without sending the fever swamp into another frothing fit.

 

Yes, yes. How utterly divisive that statement is! How will we ever recover? Look at all the turmoil he's caused!

[The Cysko Kid]

I must say, what Spike Lee did is incredibly idiotic.

 

Maybe it's me, but the best way to protest vigilantism might not be to inspire more of it.

Well spike lee is a big bag of douche, so I'm not surprised.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Clockers was good though. 25th Hour, too.

[Westside Steve]

Clockers was good though. 25th Hour, too.

I loked DO THE RIGHT THING. But........

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Uh oh...

 

"A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.

 

The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.

 

Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman."

 

Take a look.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Does that look like a guy whose had his nose broken and gotten the shit kicked out of him?

[The Cysko Kid]

Does that look like a guy whose had his nose broken and gotten the shit kicked out of him?

 

I don't know because I refuse to download the abc news bloatware app to watch it, but how clearly can you see him? I've installed camera systems from bars to steel mills to Louis vuittons headquarters in Manhattan, and I can tell you 100% without a shadow of a doubt that surveillance cameras are not above reproach. Unless you put serious serious money in them (a local police station is unlikely to have the budget for ptz cameras) you will miss a lot on the images.

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's fairly clear. It's not grainy. I'm sure it will be everywhere soon.

 

He doesn't have any hair - his head is shaved. You can see the back of his head, and there are no apparent injury to him whatsoever. Same goes for his face. There is no blood on his shirt.

 

I broke my nose twice in rugby games. I've seen lots of people get their noses broken. It tends to bleed like a mofo. The idea that this guy had a broken nose and no blood on him is highly suspect.

 

It seems odd that his lawyers would lie about something that could be checked so easily, so we'll see what the follow up is here. But on first glance, this is really, really damning. There seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with the guy. Not even a grass stain.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Here. Look at this one.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Dude, there is nothing wrong with the guy.

 

Wow.

[The Cysko Kid]

The Camera appears pretty clear, and may have the capability of digitally zooming, but I have to point out that there's not a single clear picture of his face when he's not in motion. For the bulk of the video the ABC news logo bar is right over his face. So I'd question the reliability of these cameras to show any subtle markings on a person's face (fat lips, bruises, or black eyes that are not dramatic). Notice the heavier officers face (Which is more clear to the camera than Zimmerman's.)His features are slightly blurred. What you can say for sure is that zimmerman's nose is not broken badly (in need of being reset) nor does he have any blood on his face at that time.

[The Cysko Kid]

Note the bold lines of the decals on the cop car. Pixelated. Try to read the Cop's license plate. If you can read it you can see better than me. Thats how I know you can't see subtle marks and lines on his face. This comes from years of experience with CCTV systems. He doesn't look like a kid slammed his head into the ground, but if his injuries are not dramatic you're not going to see much of anything.Non PTZ cameras set in such a position are great for giving you an overall picture of what's going on. If somebody burgles a car you'll see what what happened, and how, but you need the ability to zoom in on his face to be able to tell what he really looks like.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I guess you'd know better than me. But compare this to what his lawyers are complaining was done to him. None of it seems to square.

 

There have got to be pictures of this guy taken once they got into the station. I suppose we need to wait for those to be sure.

[The Cysko Kid]

I guess you'd know better than me. But compare this to what his lawyers are complaining was done to him. None of it seems to square.

 

There have got to be pictures of this guy taken once they got into the station. I suppose we need to wait for those to be sure.

 

I still feel, no matter what that he has to face charges. Murder if it wasn't self defense, manslaughter if it was. He needs to at least face manslaughter charges for putting himself in the position to have to defend himself (if that's what happened) in the first place, against the dispatchers direction.