Mascots

[VaporTrail]

 

I know I'm wrong, I know it's offensive, I know I'm selfish. Thats a good first step because coming to terms with your faults will help you cope should they choose to discontinue using the racist logo.

 

You've really got your panties in a twist about this, don't you?

[Stewy]

 

You've really got your panties in a twist about this, don't you?

 

.

Um..no, just responding to the dude, looks like you're the one upset..you know you are.

 

Btw, I got your wifes panties, she left them here.

[Westside Steve]

And Heck is the one changing the subject? Lol alright.

 

Let's just continue down Steve's road of one thousand questions

exactly where did it change subject? His second post was demanding the name Redskins be dropped. 1 man has the power to do that I'd assume along with a board of directors but basically it's the owners decision.

So.......

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Who cares about Dan Snyder? The answer is no. You can't censure someone for doing the wrong thing. That doesn't make it ok. Do me a favor and stop trying to make it about Dan Snyder and let's stick to whether its offensive to American Indians.

it's his decision and his alone. What's so hard to comprehend?

 

at least you know who he is... Right?

WSS

[JPPT1974]

it's his decision and his alone. What's so hard to comprehend?

 

at least you know who he is... Right?

WSS

Well it should be about the American Indians as they need to have a say. Not just Dan Snyder despite having billions of dollars.

[Westside Steve]

Well it should be about the American Indians as they need to have a say. Not just Dan Snyder despite having billions of dollars.

No they don't. He's the team owner its up to him whether or not he's going to change the name. And he says he has no intention of changing it. That's why he matters in this conversation.

 

 

WSS

[Legacy Fan]

Yes the redskins name & indians logo are/were racist. At the time of their design/inception those were derogatory, slangy terms for the native American.

 

However, as we've discussed on this board time and time again change happens. I don't think a single person on this entire globe hears the word "Redskins" and doesn't immediately think of the NFL team in Washington DC.

 

Chief Wahoo on the other hand, is probably due for an upgrade (the Redskins logo isn't a caricature - it appears to me to be an image of a warrior which suggests respect).

[Stewy]

Yes the redskins name & indians logo are/were racist. At the time of their design/inception those were derogatory, slangy terms for the native American.

 

However, as we've discussed on this board time and time again change happens. I don't think a single person on this entire globe hears the word "Redskins" and doesn't immediately think of the NFL team in Washington DC.

 

Chief Wahoo on the other hand, is probably due for an upgrade (the Redskins logo isn't a caricature - it appears to me to be an image of a warrior which suggests respect).

 

That's not entirely true. While it is true that we are so accustomed to it that no one thinks "racist" when they hear "Redskins"... whereas my wife, an Asian new to this country who doesn't know a football from hockey puck, thought that "Redskins" was disgusting and in poor taste the first time she heard it.

 

I bet that if the Redskins never existed, and the new owner wanted to give an expansion team that name, every one of us would consider it in poor taste.

[Legacy Fan]

 

That's not entirely true. While it is true that we are so accustomed to it that no one thinks "racist" when they hear "Redskins"... whereas my wife, an Asian new to this country who doesn't know a football from hockey puck, thought that "Redskins" was disgusting and in poor taste the first time she heard it.

Oh. Any chance we can get a "hyperbole font" mods?

[calfoxwc]

I agree that the Chief Wahoo image is demeaning.

 

Not the name "redskins" so much, and not the image at all.

 

Since when is the color of one's skin an "offense" ?

 

Anyways, the American Indians WERE forced to live in the reservations back in the day. That was the reason

for their creation.

 

And greed took over, so much so, that the Indians were not only forced out of their ancestral lands, but the reservation land

was also shrunk, for the white settlers.

 

************************************************

from Wikipedia:

 

"Many tribes ignored the relocation orders at first and were forced onto their limited land parcels. Enforcement of the policy required the United States Army to restrict the movements of various tribes. The pursuit of tribes in order to force them back onto reservations led to a number of Native American massacres and some wars. The most well known conflict was the Sioux War on the northern Great Plains, between 1876 and 1881, which included the Battle of Little Bighorn. Other famous wars in this regard included the Nez Perce War."

[Stewy]

Oh. Any chance we can get a "hyperbole font" mods?

 

Thats right, especially for libs, because it is hard to distinguish if they are exaggerating or if they literally believe the shit they say...but in most cases it ends up as them being literal about the shit they say. For all I know you could be a lib.

[MLD Woody]

Trust no one!

 

Anybody could be a lib.... even Bunker!

[Stewy]

I agree that the Chief Wahoo image is demeaning.

 

Not the name "redskins" so much, and not the image at all.

 

Since when is the color of one's skin an "offense" ?

 

Anyways, the American Indians WERE forced to live in the reservations back in the day. That was the reason

for their creation.

 

And greed took over, so much so, that the Indians were not only forced out of their ancestral lands, but the reservation land

was also shrunk, for the white settlers.

 

 

 

It's not. Skin color has nothing to do with the topic.

 

I don't find "Redskins" offensive either only because the first thing that comes to mind is a football team. On the other hand, it is so easy to understand how Indians could be offended, so it's really not about what I feel. That would be selfish.

 

Take the Fighting Irish and that Leprechaun logo. Irish folks could see that logo as demeaning as well, but do they have a problem with it? Obviously not, so it stays, but if they did it would be gone. Simple.

 

That also applies with Indians. If the majority of Native Americans have no problem with "Redskins" or that damn ugly logo, then I don't either.(other than that logo being ugly because it just is). It's for them to decide, not us.

 

It's really that simple folks.

[VaporTrail]

 

It's not. Skin color has nothing to do with the topic.

 

I don't find "Redskins" offensive either only because the first thing that comes to mind is a football team. On the other hand, it is so easy to understand how Indians could be offended, so it's really not about what I feel. That would be selfish.

 

Take the Fighting Irish and that Leprechaun logo. Irish folks could see that logo as demeaning as well, but do they have a problem with it? Obviously not, so it stays, but if they did it would be gone. Simple.

 

That also applies with Indians. If the majority of Native Americans have no problem with "Redskins" or that damn ugly logo, then I don't either.(other than that logo being ugly because it just is). It's for them to decide, not us.

 

It's really that simple folks.

 

Except if it was that simple, the logo would have been done away with long ago.

[heckofajobbrownie]

No they don't. He's the team owner its up to him whether or not he's going to change the name. And he says he has no intention of changing it. That's why he matters in this conversation.

 

 

WSS

 

Of course he matters. But to say he's the only person in the equation isn't true at all. The league could pressure and/or demand that Snyder change the name. The season ticket holders and fans could pressure Snyder and the league to change the name. The public could do so as well.

 

For instance, if the league really wanted this to happen, they could probably extract draft picks from Snyder until he complied.

[Westside Steve]

Of course that's true. Should the league decide to force the issue they could certainly take any number of measures. That particular statement, of course, was in response to someone saying the American Indians should have a say in it. But as it stands unless the league or the government decides to take action it would be up to him and maybe a board of directors.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

 

Of course he matters. But to say he's the only person in the equation isn't true at all. The league could pressure and/or demand that Snyder change the name. The season ticket holders and fans could pressure Snyder and the league to change the name. The public could do so as well.

 

For instance, if the league really wanted this to happen, they could probably extract draft picks from Snyder until he complied.

 

They won't do that because people are voting with their wallets. Redskins garb is common in the DC area and the Indians have the most recognizable logo in Cleveland sports. How far do you have to walk in either of those towns before you see someone wearing either of the logos? It's not long at all. Hell, I live in Dayton and I see Chief Wahoo every now and then, and I even saw some people wearing it in Japan. So long as they're turning a profit over them, a profit that gets shared with the league, no one's going to force anyone to put those logos away because a minority of people find it offensive. It's ultimately a business decision.

[Westside Steve]

as far as the season ticket holders I wonder where the split is there? 50 50? 30 70? 10 90?

my guess is that it would be a landslide in favor of keeping the name.

but I could be wrong.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I have no idea. I'm just disputing that this is all up to Dan Snyder and no one else. I'd think eventually the league will step in and tell whoever the owner is to update the name. May not happen soon, but I bet it will eventually.

[Westside Steve]

then again somebody decided to push the bullets to change their name...

WSS

[Westside Steve]

I have no idea. I'm just disputing that this is all up to Dan Snyder and no one else. I'd think eventually the league will step in and tell whoever the owner is to update the name. May not happen soon, but I ;bet it will eventually.

well you're right on that one point then. I believe I may have stated before that probably there was some sort of board of directors as well but yes someone else could possibly intervene. So far they have not.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Here's an article from Bloomberg Businessweek called "The Business Case for Changing the Name of the Washington Redskins"

 

 

 

Earlier this week, 10 members of Congress sent a letter to Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder asking him to change the name of his football team because it’s a racial slur against American Indians. It’s a good argument, but apparently not compelling to Snyder, who has vowed never to budge on the team’s name. Setting aside the offense to millions of people, Snyder is missing an opportunity for profit. “I think in the worst case it would be a break-even over a three- to five-year period,” says Allen Adamson, managing director of Landor Associates, the branding shop that helped Andersen Consulting make the switch to Accenture (ACN). “The financial excuse is not a good excuse.” Here is how a name change could be a good thing for the franchise:

1. It makes news. The reason companies usually avoid name changes is because they lose the associations consumers have with the old brand and then have to pay to build up awareness for the new one. This is not a problem for the Redskins. Washington is one of 32 teams in the most popular league in the country: Nobody is going to wonder where the franchise went. “If the Redskins decide to change their name,” says Derrick Daye, managing partner of branding consultant the Blake Project, “no matter what day of the week they did, it’s going to be the top news.” This is free media—and better than the kind the team is getting now. “It creates news,” Adamson says. “It creates interest. It will draw people in.”

2. Angry fans will still be fans. Sure, a big part of that news would be fans complaining about the betrayal of the team’s heritage and the lameness of the new name, no matter what it is. Some will swear they will never watch the team again. They’ll be bluffing. “If [the Redskins] do this, they are going to get people going ballistic on Facebook (FB), but they are not going to have an empty stadium,” Adamson says. “Memories are short when you are in a monopoly market.”

3. It’s new stuff to sell. The Redskins profited from novelty last season when rookie quarterback Robert Griffin III set a jersey sales record. A new name is another way to keep fans coming back to update their jerseys, sweatshirts, and seat covers. “You want to have a point of difference to give a reason to purchase,” says Pete Canalichio, who specializes in licensing at the Blake Project. “This is a great way of doing that.” The Redskins have to share their merchandise bounty with the rest of the NFL, which limits the gain but also limits the risk. “The downside is also protected if they sell 10 fewer hats,” says Adamson.

4. And old stuff to sell. When the NBA’s Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards in 1997, the organization said it was because of the old name’s association with gang violence. That hasn’t stopped the team from selling throwback Bullets gear. The Redskins could do the same. As soon as the old team-branded products officially became a piece of history, there would be intense demand. “The price of the old merchandise will go way up on EBay (EBAY),” says Adamson. The team could sit it out at first, to avoid the appearance of hypocrisy, and then wade in after the story dies down. “You can make the argument that it’s not really critical that [the team] stop [selling], because it’s going to be out there anyway,” Canalichio says.

5. It’s a fresh start. “The reason you change a name in the business world is to say, We’ve got a new story to tell,” Adamson says. “It’s a signal that says, Take another look at us. We’re new and improved.” The Redskins haven’t won a Super Bowl in 22 years. Signaling a new beginning might not be a bad idea. And a name change leaves plenty of room for continuity of the brand. “It can still be maroon. It can still be yellow. It might even still have a feather,” Adamson says. “You could even still maybe have a picture of a Native American if you wanted.”

[calfoxwc]

guns and bullets are made of steel. Now the steelers will have to change their name.

 

And the colts...Colt .45? They will have to change their name. And the Broncos... you know, the bron..x..., in NY where

 

they have so many armed gangs....

 

they will. And the bengals and ravens. well, they poop on the wh, and the bengals are vicious killers, so that's a national security issue, they have to change their names,

 

and the dolphins... have been trained by the Navy, so that name should be changed, and the 49/s,... name comes from the gold rush,

 

which symbolizes greed and the taking of land from the Indians, that one too. Every team has to be renamed. Then we can start all over again.

 

.... GGG

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Heck, fuck you and your wanting to change the names of teams because you don't like them. I don't give a flying fuck what you like to be honest. I don't care if you think they're racist, homophobic or whatever. And nobody here or in DC gives a fuck either.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Well said.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Well said.

Pretty good huh?

[The Cysko Kid]

guns and bullets are made of steel. Now the steelers will have to change their name.

 

And the colts...Colt .45? They will have to change their name. And the Broncos... you know, the bron..x..., in NY where

 

they have so many armed gangs....

 

they will. And the bengals and ravens. well, they poop on the wh, and the bengals are vicious killers, so that's a national security issue, they have to change their names,

 

and the dolphins... have been trained by the Navy, so that name should be changed, and the 49/s,... name comes from the gold rush,

 

which symbolizes greed and the taking of land from the Indians, that one too. Every team has to be renamed. Then we can start all over again.

 

.... GGG

Pretty sure bullets aren't made of steel cal. Possibly the jackets are occasionally made of soft steel but I think its pretty rare. Copper is a more common jacket material

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yes, if we change the name of a team that just about everyone (minus Steve) at least agrees is a derogatory racial slur, then we might have to change the names of all the teams that aren't derogatory racial slurs, too!

 

It's not even a slippery slope argument, Cal. It's just dense. Nobody is offended by the names of the Steelers or the Colts or the Ravens. There's no slope to worry about.

 

It's like saying, "Yeah, and if we stop saying 'N*****' pretty soon we'll have to stop saying 'gentleman'!"

[Westside Steve]

Oh don't worry, I trust you guys will always be able to find something to be outraged over.

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

That was an unfinished post that's why I pulled it. But yeah, since us guys will always find something to be outraged about I can only assume you are implying you're on the other side of the spectrum. How empathizing with Indians and the derogatory team names that exist equals outrage, I'm not quite sure, but hey, don't question it.