Tour2ma Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well after watching Mettenberger, Manziel, Hundley and the late-coming Petty fairly closely yesterday, the one that arguably had the worst game impressed me the most... Manziel. One of the issues I've had with Manziel is what I saw as his swashbuckling, do-or-die style. When he threw he just seemed to take too many chances for my taste... chances that he was getting away with at the collegiate level, but would not at the pro level. And all too often he chose to run too quickly. I did not see either tendency yesterday. Yesterday I saw a patient QB who surveyed the field thoroughly and sometimes exhaustively. I can only recall one forced pass, and it was on a 4th and goal play when he was under a big rush. He still ran numerous times, but as a last resort. He still ran into more collisions than I want to see, but he did survive. A&M ran into a LSU buzzsaw yesterday and while Manziel could not overcome that fact, he showed me something in defeat that he had not in victory. On the other hand, the limited stock I held in A&M's WR, Evans, fell. I did not like him showing up his QB when he overthrew him once early... especially given that Evans dropped a slant earlier. That "attytood" just looks like trouble down the road. Also, clearly as the game went on, Evans was reading a different D than Johnny was. I am not sure Manziel's reads were right most, let alone, all of the time, but I'd bet a few shekels on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick. I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Bryce Petty and co. had a disaster of a game vs Ok. State. But I really like his composure and smarts on the field. Seems that Hundley, Manziel, Mettenberger...don't have nearly as much upside as Carr in the pros. I would really love to watch Weeden and Campbell start next year...for some other team.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick. I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability. If Hundley does declare, I think we would be stupid not to take him. I would actually advocate a trade up for him. Of all the prospects, I believe he has the highest upside, he just needs to sit and learn from a good NFL coach. It's too good to be true, however. It just wouldn't be right for Cleveland to get lucky and have the perfect scenario unfold itself. Besides, I do like Bortles a lot. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know, Couch. Sometimes things make almost too much sense. If we end up 7th or 8th and get Hundley there and then a terrific complementary WR at 24th... and then one of the best backs in the draft in the 2nd round? I'll weep. It'll be way too logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know, Couch. Sometimes things make almost too much sense. If we end up 7th or 8th and get Hundley there and then a terrific complementary WR at 24th... and then one of the best backs in the draft in the 2nd round? I'll weep. It'll be way too logical. I'm in the same boat. That would be a perfect draft. When your needs align with BPA, it's like heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Sorry Shep. We will not be that lucky or smart. Remember we have Lombardi in the FO. We will reach for players who will be busts. Sorry after todays game this team has beaten down my joy of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Agree 100% about QB/WR in round 1. Not with the RB pick in round 2... but if it's BPA then why not? I'm thinking O-line is becoming a pretty big weakness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 he just needs to sit and learn from a good NFL coach. good luck finding one of those in cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 After watching the debacle that was the Steelers game and last nights Patriots/Broncos game, I know one thing for sure. We need someone who throws a tight spiral every time. When November comes, so does the wind, and if u can't spin it, you're gonna struggle. Even the great Manning struggles mightily in the wind due to a lack of arm strength and tight spirals. The best guy in college for us IMO is Derek Carr followed by Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I can absolutely see Carr. I'm getting down to him and Hundley because Hoyer buys us some time. I usually wouldn't draft a back as high as early 2nd round, but we might get great value there. We'll be "drafting" Pinkston and Faulk (not to mention Dion Lewis) next year, so I'm not that into the guard thing. Before Campbell went out, our offense seemed to be ticking along pretty well. I saw definite running lanes for Obie and Fozzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 I can absolutely see Carr. I'm getting down to him and Hundley because Hoyer buys us some time. I usually wouldn't draft a back as high as early 2nd round, but we might get great value there. We'll be "drafting" Pinkston and Faulk (not to mention Dion Lewis) next year, so I'm not that into the guard thing. Before Campbell went out, our offense seemed to be ticking along pretty well. I saw definite running lanes for Obie and Fozzy. I would argue that getting a top 10 guard would set us up better for NEXT year than getting a QB. I'm not sure what game youre watching lol. Our guards are awful. They're servicable in the pass game and they can open holes on dives but we cannot run outside the tackles at all, and that's because of our plodding guards. If we go the route of getting a mobile QB we definitely need a new G. Id bet we could get a lot more out of the backs we already have if we upgrade there (and if we could bring in a good blocking FB/TE that would go a long way also.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Speaking of guards, how long before Joe Thomas loses a step and moves to guard like Ryan Tucker did? I thought Tucker was a damn good guard. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Tucker had 2 great years for sure. I'd like to hope Thomas has another 4-5 years at LT....please let him have 4-5 lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I honestly am NOT sold on any of the "big name" QBs for the 2014 draft, but here's a kid I really DO like...Jimmy Garoppolo of Eastern Illinois. His "Welker clone" WR Erik Lora is interesting too in later rounds. Garoppolo has broken most, if not all, of Tony Romo's records there & check out his lightning quick release. I read where all 32 NFL teams have scouted him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eZH_Cd1-U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT7nn5q7Dyg Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 What's a top 10 guard? You mean, like one of the top 10 guards? Not a guard drafted in the top 10, right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Carr punched his ticket to the Heisman cermoney yesterday with 500 yards and 5 TDs. His numbers are sick. I thought Hundley played very well in a loss that can't be pinned on him (38-33). If the Browns are still smitten with Hoyer (I am), and Hundley does declare, the math works fantastically. A full year of coaching from Chud and Norv would be exactly what he needs. Good kid, off the charts ability. Not so fast my friend... competition level counts... If he wins out, then AJ takes the Heisman and I will not hold that against him. Watched some more of Hundley this past weekend vs. ASU... mostly first half. Reminded me of a slightly shorter/ faster version of Campbell. Also while I knew he was an underclassman, I did not realize he's a red shirt sophomore. Not a lot of seasoning there... I am still not sold on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Not so fast my friend... competition level counts... If he wins out, then AJ takes the Heisman and I will not hold that against him. Watched some more of Hundley this past weekend vs. ASU... mostly first half. Reminded me of a slightly shorter/ faster version of Campbell. Also while I knew he was an underclassman, I did not realize he's a red shirt sophomore. Not a lot of seasoning there... I am still not sold on him. I think Hundley's experience (or lack thereof) is what enamors him to most. He's putting up very solid numbers against solid (and occasionally great) competition and he's only been a starter for one full season. His ceiling is sky high. With the right coaching, he could be very good. Our situation seems to be the perfect scenario for him, we have a QB already on our roster who has shown glimpses of being a starting caliber player. He's played and showed enough for us to be intrigued, but not long enough for us to know what exactly we have in him. Hundley is a top notch talent who's only real knock is that he hasn't had enough coaching. We're in the market for a talented QB, we have a supposed QB guru as our OC, and we have a guy who is talented and smart enough to keep the seat warm for Hundley while we groom him. We could even go the route of Washington and take another middle round guy as insurance. Hundley and Bortles...I think I would crap my pants, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 THANKS!!! I've been getting curious about Garoppolo. Lots of draftnick types dig him. I honestly am NOT sold on any of the "big name" QBs for the 2014 draft, but here's a kid I really DO like...Jimmy Garoppolo of Eastern Illinois. His "Welker clone" WR Erik Lora is interesting too in later rounds. Garoppolo has broken most, if not all, of Tony Romo's records there & check out his lightning quick release. I read where all 32 NFL teams have scouted him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eZH_Cd1-U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT7nn5q7Dyg Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hundley doesn't have a high ceiling. He just doesn't have a ceiling. He's a faster Cam Newton without the narcissism. I'm with Couch: He just needs some refinement and time. But he could be a true superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hundley isn't a guy you draft this season and expect to start. He's a guy like Rodgers. You ease him in. Let him experience different scenarios. You can run the risk of letting him become RG3 if not brought along correctly, i.e. a guy who relies on pure physical talent when things get rough. There's 64 players in the league like that. They're called backups. A real QB knows what the defense is doing, and has the talent to make them pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 What's a top 10 guard? You mean, like one of the top 10 guards? Not a guard drafted in the top 10, right??? haha, of course. I'm not in any way saying draft a guard in the first round even. But, we do need an athletic guard in the worst way, be it in the draft or free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 The Browns will draft Bortles, Carr, or Garoppolo. Take it to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 I honestly am NOT sold on any of the "big name" QBs for the 2014 draft, but here's a kid I really DO like...Jimmy Garoppolo of Eastern Illinois. His "Welker clone" WR Erik Lora is interesting too in later rounds. Garoppolo has broken most, if not all, of Tony Romo's records there & check out his lightning quick release. I read where all 32 NFL teams have scouted him. Garoppolo is not a big name? How many letters do you need? His release is very quick to be sure, but really did not see arm strength in vid #1... even in the one red zone slant he threw. After the fifth, wide-open streak he completed for a TD, I started losing interest. Hundley isn't a guy you draft this season and expect to start. Easy to agree there since with one possible exception I do not see an instant starter at QB in the draft. When I evaluate the heads in this QB draft, I only see one that is currently NFL calibre... McCarron. The kid makes reads... Since I only get to see heads on the field, it is possible that others, including Hundley, have one, but file that under facts not in evidence for now. I have a real hard time drafting a QB "high" that I do not believe is ready to start. Where does high end? Somewhere nearing the end of round one. The Browns will draft Bortles, Carr, or Garoppolo. Take it to the bank. Unless they draft Manziel or Hundley or McCarron or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Garoppolo is not a big name? How many letters do you need? His release is very quick to be sure, but really did not see arm strength in vid #1... even in the one red zone slant he threw. After the fifth, wide-open streak he completed for a TD, I started losing interest. Easy to agree there since with one possible exception I do not see an instant starter at QB in the draft. When I evaluate the heads in this QB draft, I only see one that is currently NFL calibre... McCarron. The kid makes reads... Since I only get to see heads on the field, it is possible that others, including Hundley, have one, but file that under facts not in evidence for now. I have a real hard time drafting a QB "high" that I do not believe is ready to start. Where does high end? Somewhere nearing the end of round one. Unless they draft Manziel or Hundley or McCarron or... I believe Garopollo has plenty enough arm strength, but I quickly grew disinterested for the same reason you did. I watched a couple videos of Garopollo and thought "This guy is easily the best prospect in the draft". But then I watched a couple more videos, and then a couple more. I realized that his success comes more from beating up on the lack of speed and talent in the FCS level corners. His go to move is a pump fake to a play side slant, and then hitting the backside receiver on a 9 route against man coverage. In every video I've watched, that play has been present once or twice. In the NFL, he's not going to have that gift wrapped for him. Another concern is that I haven't seen him throw an out. A QB who can throw a perfect out route can throw just about any other pass needed. It's a timing route that, by the time the QB reaches his drop back, will have to travel about 25 yards and be on point. Of the "short" passes, it's actually a decently long pass. I still think he's a very interesting prospect. He has nearly everything you'd want, but I think he may be more suited for an offense like KC's. A spread offense to widen the field with WCO-like short routes intended to set up the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Posted November 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 He might indeed fit the WCO best... but he has some huge fans who say he has a legit NFL arm and makes every throw. Still: Mariota, Hundley, Manziel, Carr. I bet we get one of those four and Hoyer starts the opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 He might indeed fit the WCO best... but he has some huge fans who say he has a legit NFL arm and makes every throw. Still: Mariota, Hundley, Manziel, Carr. I bet we get one of those four and Hoyer starts the opener. I don't deny the fact that he's capable of making all the throws. I'm just worried that he hasn't yet, and that's a throw you certainly need in your arsenal to play in the NFL. He's in an offense that is really set up for him to succeed. Fast receivers, spread offense, quick underneath routes and what I believe to be a great hot route system. This is only a guess, but with what I've seen so far, I believe that the wide outs are primarily given option routes and are taught to diagnose the defense pre snap and determine their own routes. If the wide out recognizes man coverage, based on the play call, he either has a slant or a go. Zone coverage, it seems like a hitch or a post. This could be completely wrong and I'm sure it is. It's very possible that the OC is just an expert at analyzing situational defenses and calling plays to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 I can't wait until next October so we can talk about the 2015 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 I can't wait until next year when the draft isn't the highlight of a Browns football year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 I can't wait until next October so we can talk about the 2015 draft. and all the good QB prospects out there cuz the one we traded picks for, moved up to get in 2014 is a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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