Question for the Board

[Guest mz.]

So you're basically saying you have no clue.

 

Duly noted.

[Furnier]

Excellent question from Solon and a DAMN good opportunity for the Squeeler toads haunting this board to offer some quality input and prove that they are not one note clods.

 

Two pages, no comments from Squeeler fans. Anyone surprised?

 

Doug

[rich4eagle]

mz the pussy, Oh I have a clue about everything........I do note that you have a vendetta about me or is it an infatuation......either I just make you ill because I am way better than you or that your are infatuated that I know so much..........take your pick...........

 

anyway I remain amused that you can find so much time to just try to discredit whatever I say..........and always never have substance just subjective to kick me in the balls............'

 

while I just keep going on making assholes like your foolish self look stupid

 

BTW, I am still looking forward to your one projection while dismally listening to your contorted hindsight now a hundred times........

 

This is getting silly and indeed you are amusing, I just hope your are brighter than what I am being presented!

[Guest mz.]

Get over yourself. I rarely even mention you.

[nickers]

No I make astute judgments at all times. About all things from geopolitical to national the local to sports. My opinion has no peer, none. Take that for whatever yu choose is relevant. I have surmised that you are just a smart ass dickhead with no real clue about anything but sure that folks like me who got it need to get it ie,,...........two loaded barrels.

 

Keep working on it pal, maybe some day your head will creep outta yurass!

 

 

 

While Youre sitting there on Your porcelain throne correcting folks on thier "Grammar"......Learn how to spell the word "You" correctly...Its not "Yu"......Carry on Grandpa!

[Solon16]

I actually wanted to hear from the steeler folks as to who and how they make decisions in pitt, who some of there scouting talent is or do they even know?

 

As to rich...thanks for hijaclking my thread.....answer yes or no....is colbert Cowhers coffee fetcher? Because that would make him tomlinson's as well....seems to me the only common thread is Colbert and lebeau. oh and Brucey arians......Colbert to me is silently one of the very best in the NFL sadly!

[rich4eagle]

Mr. Solon, I apologize that the three dickheads from Nav's board hijacked your thread. If you go back and read one of the early posts my view on Colbert and the Steelers was presented. I answered your question. That was followed by a slobberfest from the dickheads. The Steelers have a formula that starts with the ownership. Not Cowher and not the GM. It starts with the Rooney philosophy. I made that point earlier twice. Thus Colbert is charged with finding players to fit the philosophy. The coach is responsible for playing the philosophy. So they together fill the pieces that wear the uniform.

 

That point was made by me way in the beginning of this thread.

 

My friend Inspecta almost picked up all of the irony. BTW, you went after the useless comment that was indeed in reference to oldawg and not the thread auther a football genius who missed the boat on sewage though.

 

Inspecta, I hope you got a chuckle. It was fun entertaining the three dickheads(anoldfart, welcherdawg, masterjackoff) none of which has a clue about anything of substance. My associate and fellow browns fan mz the pussy(smart guy but annoying) is like a fly buzzing trying to sniff my dupa. My browns bud nickers(english professor) who corrected my grammar using a word that does not exist......

 

anyway Mr. Inspecta youre assessment of irony is as usual a good one

 

Mr. Solon(football genius) again I am sorry I got wrapped up in a slimefest with the three dickheads and two innocent bystanders who knew no better!

 

BTW, my buddy Don from Ohio a huge Browns fan is thoroughly disappointed in Lerner as his view is indeed he hired two coffee fetchers. I reserve judgment on both Mangini and Kokinis until such time as the make some decisions. However, Don's statement does indeed raise questions. He equates Kokinis to Savage under Ozzie. I cannot believe anyone could be as bad as Sewage. So I reserve judgment. Just as I did with Policy and Clark and Butch and Sewage and Crennel. Off to grammar and punctuation class!

[rich4eagle]

Well, it is about time the fourth dickhead showed up. That makes it complete all four dickheads have made useless comment here. Thanks golfer for making it a complete dick job!

 

In Sewage you ARE!

 

Once again Solon my apologies for the hijacking your thread by the four dickheads of the revolution?

[Solon16]

Actually rich I commented on the topic first. and then just asked Inspecta a question.

 

 

I do believe you are correct though that the success of the steelers starts with the Rooneys and has been so ingrained into the organization that it breeds success quite easily. I also believe the Rooneys are VERY GOOD at picking the right person for the job no matter what the conventional wisdom is.

 

As for why Colbert hasn't been a hot name? My guess would be because he's let it known he's not interested in ever leaving for another team. And why the heck would he???

 

Why would Pioli? We should steal some of there talent evaluators(scouts)....Kokinis said he's staying with our scouts....How freakin stupid is that??? Go get steeler scouts or NE scouts or Indy scouts.....hey hijack Parcells and water board his ass for how to evaluate 3-4 talent

 

[Guest Masters]

Not to mention you don't try and throw together a new scouting department 2 months before the actual draft.

 

It is a big assumption that the entire scouting department in CLE are no good. All scouts can do is scout. They don't decide who actually got drafted.

[Solon16]

Which is it? They all evaluate the same, you draft for your system or you don't put a new team together before the draft, all scouts are the same? Evaluating talent, scouting, judging the talent is Hugelly varied...for proof Look at our board...hell look no further that MM saying Andra Davis is as good as Patrick willis.....Couldn't Disagree more. so to tell me evaluating talent is the same is xxxxingggg nonsense

[rich4eagle]

Actually rich I commented on the topic first. and then just asked Inspecta a question.

 

 

I do believe you are correct though that the success of the steelers starts with the Rooneys and has been so ingrained into the organization that it breeds success quite easily. I also believe the Rooneys are VERY GOOD at picking the right person for the job no matter what the conventional wisdom is.

 

As for why Colbert hasn't been a hot name? My guess would be because he's let it known he's not interested in ever leaving for another team. And why the heck would he???

 

Thank you excellent post, actually the last several have been excellent. As far as scouting and I see it first hand all the time. Two see two things very different. Hell Butch saw Winslow and I saw Ben. That about sums up scouting.

 

Solon to answer your question you draft to supplement your system and when you find TRUE impact players you draft them and adjust your system to accomodate their skills..........That is what the winners do............

[rr59eagle]

Excellent question from Solon and a DAMN good opportunity for the Squeeler toads haunting this board to offer some quality input and prove that they are not one note clods.

 

Two pages, no comments from Squeeler fans. Anyone surprised?

 

Doug

Steeler fan who is just laughing at the 'insanity" being shelled out in many of the earlier posts . Colbert is from Pittsburgh and as mentioned earlier , the Steelers are a family run business who treats their people very well . I am sure Kevin Colbert feels he is adequately paid and that he is supported by his employer to be sucessful .Unlike many businesses in the USA today , the Rooney's support their employees in many ways and these employees are held accountable .Their sucess ,or failure, is shared equally within the organization. The business side of the organization is run like like their Team on the field ...That is a refreshing environment in which to work . Besides , what GM job would be better than the one Colbert has right now?? Pittsburgh is one of the best run organizations in the NFL ....where would he want to go ???Dallas , Washington, DC ??? to work for egomaniacs who THINK they know football ,but all they do is collect jock straps to sniff.. It would be a sideways move ,at best ,to be a GM for another club

 

fact is Pittsburgh has had a long history of personnel people staying with their organization for years . They also have had a Total of THREE coaches over the past 39+ years , so there is stability within this organization .The Coach/ GM relationship seems to be working (exception was Donahue/Cowher) for them. Also, People generally do not like change ... Perhaps Colbert is happy where he is and the rest of the NFL knows this to be a fact . If he does go to another NFL Team in the future , it will not be because he was treated unfairly during his time with the Steelers..Pioli had a strong affinity and loyalty to Robert Kraft , Belicheck and the PATS ..It was just time for him to go ....same could happen with Colbert .....

 

An added bonus is that as Steeler's GM , Colbert does NOT have text messaging capabilities on his cell phone

[Guest Masters]

Which is it? They all evaluate the same, you draft for your system or you don't put a new team together before the draft, all scouts are the same? Evaluating talent, scouting, judging the talent is Hugelly varied...for proof Look at our board...hell look no further that MM saying Andra Davis is as good as Patrick willis.....Couldn't Disagree more. so to tell me evaluating talent is the same is xxxxingggg nonsense

 

See JADBF post. CLE obviously deviated from their board. After Savage was fired reports started coming out left and right about him not taking guys always best for the system, as well as him and RAC not being on the same page for multiple picks/players.

 

My only point on the Davis, Willis, or Jacskon was that none of them are that impact LB you so covit. They are all making tackles 5 yards down field, not in the backfield. Or basically they are solid WILB in a 3-4, but none perform like, as, or should be a SILB in a 3-4. You choose to make it me saying Davis is as good as Willis. Of course statistically, they are when you compare apples to apples (season to season in the league, first years in 3-4, etc.).

[Solon16]

Thank you excellent post, actually the last several have been excellent. As far as scouting and I see it first hand all the time. Two see two things very different. Hell Butch saw Winslow and I saw Ben. That about sums up scouting.

 

Solon to answer your question you draft to supplement your system and when you find TRUE impact players you draft them and adjust your system to accomodate their skills..........That is what the winners do............

 

 

Well that's a whole lot different than NE and Pitt who as we just discussed draft players to FIT their system. You seem to be saying the exact opposite

 

[Solon16]

There is a difference between a scout watchign a guy and putting down what he feels are the pros and cons for a certain player, and then someone using those pros and cons to compare two players.

 

And I don't really care what you think is nonsense....it's my opinion. The guys who are underneath those making the actual draft decsions to me are mere "coffee fetchers" to use a term everyone likes to use here. It's not until you get up to the level where you have to say "ok draft this guy", that it really matters. If you look at our board, MOST of the things people post from scouting sites say relatively similar things about a certain player. Then someone on our board uses the things they say to explain WHY one player is better than the other than the browns.

 

Take Rey M. for an example, there's not a scout out there that will tell you he is the best at coverage, and almost every scout says that yes, he does end up out of position some time. So what do you really think a low level scout in an organization can see that can filter up to their GM that tells that GM that Rey is the right pick for them at #5, #10, #20.....They can't. It's up to the guy doing the drafting to make that final decision.

 

And lastly I'll leave you wit this. If scouting is so freaking grreat...then why do so many first rounders bust and you ahve so many late rounders become HOFers?

 

because scouting is a crap shoot. I'm much more of the opinion coaching matters as much or more than scouting.

 

 

""It's up to the guy doing the drafting to make that final decision.

 

And lastly I'll leave you wit this. If scouting is so freaking grreat...then why do so many first rounders bust and you ahve so many late rounders become HOFers?""'

 

Cause you can't put a Value on HEART....They want to put a VALUE on a guy instead of... seeing if he can Play football or not! Everyone's caught up in how high can someone jump , forty times, how much a guy can lift.... I want guys who can play football at a high level and in big games...To say that scouts are the same is ludicris....I've been scouting College football for 25 years....There are diametrically oppossed Value placed on Players....Just look due south to Cincinnati. They draft guys Most don't even put on their boards. Look at this board....we obviously can't even agree on VALUE of a top 5 guy? Scouts are scouts I get the arguement....Judgements on scouting are skewed tremendously

 

[rich4eagle]

Well that's a whole lot different than NE and Pitt who as we just discussed draft players to FIT their system. You seem to be saying the exact opposite

 

NoT AT ALL. You create the system you wish to use and draft to fit the system. When a massive true impact players comes YOU DRAFT him. Then adjust the system to utilize his talents. Polamalu is such an example in Pittsburgh. Marino was such an example for Miami. Jim Brown was such an example for Cleveland.

 

The great teams eye the greatest of talent and bring them on board and then make sure they use them to advantage........

 

The system stays fundamentally intact but allows the impact player to achieve

 

Rooney's get it................Browns have been lost in wilderness for years

 

I will provide another example when the Patriots had Dillon they used a pound it running game.......when he left the NEVER attempted a pound it running game again.........but adjusted to a passing game complimented by running.

 

Winners use the talent they have and get talent to suit their needs..............but never pass on IMPACT because it changes a philosophy somewhat

[Guest Masters]

.Just look due south to Cincinnati. They draft guys Most don't even put on their boards. Look at this board....we obviously can't even agree on VALUE of a top 5 guy? Scouts are scouts I get the arguement....Judgements on scouting are skewed tremendously

 

I think right there is where JADBF and I are coming from. It comes down to the guy (or guys when done right) who looks at those scouting reports and decides who is the guy to draft. Like down south in Cinci, I'd bet dollars to donuts that who the scouts and Mavin Lewis think is the better guy to draft and who Mike Brown decided are vastly different.

[Guest Masters]

Rich, I'd whole heartly agree with you. Good teams find ways to adjust their existing system to maximize the use of a great talent.

 

The one thing you can't do is go get a massive impact player who will never fit in your system, even with tweaking. There are always will be guys who can only be productive in a certain type of system.

[Solon16]

Tom Brady ring any bells(6th)?, Asante samuel(4th round) For pete's sake Matt cassell Never even took a freakin SNAP in College...so hell ya I'd say they are better! Please don't come back to me and say They fit there system...geez

[Solon16]

I think right there is where JADBF and I are coming from. It comes down to the guy (or guys when done right) who looks at those scouting reports and decides who is the guy to draft. Like down south in Cinci, I'd bet dollars to donuts that who the scouts and Mavin Lewis think is the better guy to draft and who Mike Brown decided are vastly different.

 

YOU PROVE MY POINT AS WELL...OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETLY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT!

 

[Guest Masters]

Tom Brady ring any bells(6th)?, Asante samuel(4th round) For pete's sake Matt cassell Never even took a freakin SNAP in College...so hell ya I'd say they are better! Please don't come back to me and say They fit there system...geez

 

Of course they felt those guys could fit into their system and develop with in it. A system for an NFL team is much more than just the X's and O's of playbook. You think those same guys would have produced the same if CLE drafted them and they played under RAC?

[rich4eagle]

Rich, I'd whole heartly agree with you. Good teams find ways to adjust their existing system to maximize the use of a great talent.

 

The one thing you can't do is go get a massive impact player who will never fit in your system, even with tweaking. There are always will be guys who can only be productive in a certain type of system.

 

Mostly agree with your premise but Jim Brown would have fit any system.........and made it better. The Browns had their bruiser Fullback back then and were a west coast offense. Boom, there is Brown and wala the Browns become a dominant running team. The message is never say never. As Paul stated long ago.....if you get the big gun shoot it.

 

How simple is that.........Butkus, Taylor, Montana, Rice, Polamalu................simple and excellent.........and that is what winners do........create a system but never allow the system to IGNORE REALITY

[Guest Masters]

YOU PROVE MY POINT AS WELL...OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETLY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT!

 

When talking pure scouts, they hardly differ. Pick any player, then read the scouting report from 10 different sources. You'll find 95% of the report is the same.

 

Now talk to 10 different GMs (or who ever will actually decide who to draft with a pick), you'll certainly get 7-8 different answers for sure. Of course once you get to that level, the guy making the decision needs to be doing more than just evaluating the level of talent, or potential talent player X has. Otherwise you start being Phil Savage, and your gonna swing an miss because guys you find with high potential talent or existing talent, draft them, but they'll never fit into the system you are trying to run.

[rich4eagle]

When talking pure scouts, they hardly differ. Pick any player, then read the scouting report from 10 different sources. You'll find 95% of the report is the same.

 

Now talk to 10 different GMs (or who ever will actually decide who to draft with a pick), you'll certainly get 7-8 different answers for sure. Of course once you get to that level, the guy making the decision needs to be doing more than just evaluating the level of talent, or potential talent player X has. Otherwise you start being Phil Savage, and your gonna swing an miss because guys you find with high potential talent or existing talent, draft them, but they'll never fit into the system you are trying to run.

 

Your first line says it all...........life in general is herd mentality..........WINNERS separate from herds to single progressive thinking in all endeavors.........football is not excluded. Usually the herd sucks high wind in the end

[Solon16]

Well if you don't agree with my statement:

YOU PROVE MY POINT AS WELL...OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT!

Then we will never agree on anything

 

 

[Guest Masters]

Mostly agree with your premise but Jim Brown would have fit any system.........and made it better. The Browns had their bruiser Fullback back then and were a west coast offense. Boom, there is Brown and wala the Browns become a dominant running team. The message is never say never. As Paul stated long ago.....if you get the big gun shoot it.

 

How simple is that.........Butkus, Taylor, Montana, Rice, Polamalu................simple and excellent.........and that is what winners do........create a system but never allow the system to IGNORE REALITY

 

Well a great RB like Jim Brown, and one from a far different era, is one of those guys who is generally gonna produce in any O system. If you can run over and through people, it doesn't matter. But you can't take DA and put him in a west coast offense and expect him to ever thrive. You can't take any great pass rushing DE in a 4-3 and get him the same success as an OLB or DE in a 3-4.

 

If you mean LT-Taylor, I don't think he could be plugged into any D and have the same impact he did with the G-men. If you put Joe Montana in air Coryell O, I don't think he has the same career either. You ask Big Ben to run Peyton Mannings offense, I don't think he has the same success either.

[Guest Masters]

Your first line says it all...........life in general is herd mentality..........WINNERS separate from herds to single progressive thinking in all endeavors.........football is not excluded. Usually the herd sucks high wind in the end

 

It's why it is so critical that the guy (or more importantly more than one person) making the final decision based on the scouting information makes the right pick, based on all the data, and their own good football instincts.

 

[rich4eagle]

I assume that was not pointed at me

 

 

[hammertime]

Mostly agree with your premise but Jim Brown would have fit any system.........and made it better. The Browns had their bruiser Fullback back then and were a west coast offense. Boom, there is Brown and wala the Browns become a dominant running team. The message is never say never. As Paul stated long ago.....if you get the big gun shoot it.

 

How simple is that.........Butkus, Taylor, Montana, Rice, Polamalu................simple and excellent.........and that is what winners do........create a system but never allow the system to IGNORE REALITY

 

 

Wow, alot of, well lets just say to create a system but never allow the system to ignore reality is something that can only happen if the FO buys in on the approach and works TOGETHER to acheive it.

 

Its actually a very simple and eloquent way to streamline an organization.