MLD Woody Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Ah....so there it is. See the bold. It has nothing to do with facts/statistics....its just something you don't like. What evidence do I have.....the Jan. 2015 graph that says that MLS is like I said....next to last on all sports on that list in interest. Not sure what it is about that you cannot read. Yes, exactly, all of the data and evidence I have presented is now incorrect because I do not enjoy watching baseball. You got me... There's your out... What, your graph listing "olympics" as a sport? Really? And even then, it does nothing to rebut the growing popularity of soccer and falling popularity of baseball. And again, you provided no evidence to support the new claims you made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 You'd be surprised at the amount of skill it takes to dribble and control a ball while sprinting at nearly full speed, then drop a 20 yard cross into the box in front of someone who is also running full speed. Or the amount of skill it takes to field a pass and drive a kick with your non-dominant foot. Hell, I'd be surprised if half of you could manage to even attempt a kick on a rolling ball while running full speed. I hate soccer because I'm terrible at it...but I respect the hustle. And I was a five sport athlete in high school...so I'm not necessarily lacking in the athletic talent department. It's simply a tough sport for some people to grasp.The amount of physical talent required to play the sport at a high level is no less than it is for any other sport, nor is it any greater. The argument of what sport takes more skill is, and always has been, a stupid one. Each sport requires the same amount of skill and focus, just in different ways. Comparing the talent required to hit or throw a 95 MPH fastball with the talent it takes to kick or block a 65 MPH soccer ball is comparing apples and oranges. Endurance is talent. Hand eye coordination is talent. Strategy retention is talent. All of it is talent - it's just different forms. Of course, but I like to troll Woody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I don't care how you feel about the sport. I do not care what preconceived notions and biases you have. That doesn't matter. Facts are facts. And your dumb post is still a dumb post. Except....of course you only were interested in the facts that supported your view...and ignored that did not. But Steve is right.....innercity black kids probably care less for soccer than they do baseball. I think that was his point....his fact...that you chose to ignore. Idk how many times I need to say this, I was never comparing football and soccer. Your stupid comment regarding suburban moms and black kids, which then morphed into comparing soccer to football, means nothing. This was soccer vs baseball. How you could see baseball as more physical/dangerous is beyond me. It seems that you know far less about baseball than any of us know about soccer. Did you seriously just ask how anyone can find baseball more physically dangerous than soccer? Have you ever watched a baseball game. You do know that they throw a rock hard projectile very near the body on every single baseball pla at a very high rate of speed, don't you? You do know that there is a reason they wear helmets, don't you. Would you like to ask Ray Chapman if it is dangerous. Oh, sorry, you can't....he died from being hit in the head by baseball. How about Herb Score, Tony Congliaro? How about Ray Fosse. What comments are you making now? How will you continue to walk away from your original post. You just keep bringing up more and more statements that don't relate to your original post at all. That is his prerogative to do if he wants. I do not care if you do not like soccer. I do not care if your knowledge of the sport and those who play it is next to nothing. Just try to stay on topic with your original post, or admit you were wrong to begin with. So....OK....since you clearly know nothing about baseball......and he apparently knows nothing about soccer....the shut the fuck up yourself in making any comparisons. Yes, yes, very clever. Attempt to flip it. Now I'm the one that knows nothing about the other side... Right. That's one way to try to back out of a losing argument I guess. I said the majority of the contact and "physicality" is accidental, which is true. If your case for baseball being more physical than soccer is that sometimes people get clocked with the ball on accident, and in extremely rare cases serious injury or death occurs, you really have no case. I guess being a NASCAR driver is pretty physical too, since drivers have died in car crashes... Physicality of a sport is sustained thing. Not fluke, accidental plays here and there. I am not ignoring facts that contradict my view. I invite you to find and post them. Find me multiple, reputable sources that support your views. So far, you have not provided that. I have no idea what Steve's point was. As we went back and forth, I'm not sure he did either. If it was that black inner city kids play less soccer, then yeah, sure. I imagine without open space to run it would be pretty hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, exactly, all of the data and evidence I have presented is now incorrect because I do not enjoy watching baseball. You got me... There's your out... Actually...you jest...but I think that is EXACTLY correct. What, your graph listing "olympics" as a sport? Really? Are you still continuing to be a little cunt about that? People like the Olympics as the smorgasboard of sport. And even then, it does nothing to rebut the growing popularity of soccer and falling popularity of baseball. It doesn't have to. It stands on its own. And again, you provided no evidence to support the new claims you made. I don't need new evidence. The old evidence is sufficient. In a court you don't need 100 character witnesses when 1 or 2 quality ones will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 You'd be surprised at the amount of skill it takes to dribble and control a ball while sprinting at nearly full speed, then drop a 20 yard cross into the box in front of someone who is also running full speed. Or the amount of skill it takes to field a pass and drive a kick with your non-dominant foot. Hell, I'd be surprised if half of you could manage to even attempt a kick on a rolling ball while running full speed. I hate soccer because I'm terrible at it...but I respect the hustle. And I was a five sport athlete in high school...so I'm not necessarily lacking in the athletic talent department. It's simply a tough sport for some people to grasp.The amount of physical talent required to play the sport at a high level is no less than it is for any other sport, nor is it any greater. The argument of what sport takes more skill is, and always has been, a stupid one. Each sport requires the same amount of skill and focus, just in different ways. Comparing the talent required to hit or throw a 95 MPH fastball with the talent it takes to kick or block a 65 MPH soccer ball is comparing apples and oranges. Endurance is talent. Hand eye coordination is talent. Strategy retention is talent. All of it is talent - it's just different forms. I also figured you could break sports into how much Athleticism and how much Skill they take. Cross Country running really doesn't take much skill, but it takes a ton of athleticism. Golf doesn't take much athleticism, but it takes a lot of skill. Most other sports fall within that spectrum. Also, #RespectTheHustle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Of course, but I like to troll Woody. A) I have nothing better to do than troll random posters Shit, I did sound stupid. I'll just say I was trolling. Ok, whatever works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 A) I have nothing better to do than troll random posters Shit, I did sound stupid. I'll just say I was trolling. Ok, whatever works for you. At least you're honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, exactly, all of the data and evidence I have presented is now incorrect because I do not enjoy watching baseball. You got me... There's your out... Actually...you jest...but I think that is EXACTLY correct. What, your graph listing "olympics" as a sport? Really? Are you still continuing to be a little cunt about that? People like the Olympics as the smorgasboard of sport. And even then, it does nothing to rebut the growing popularity of soccer and falling popularity of baseball. It doesn't have to. It stands on its own. And again, you provided no evidence to support the new claims you made. I don't need new evidence. The old evidence is sufficient. In a court you don't need 100 character witnesses when 1 or 2 quality ones will do. Gipper: "I'm right because I say so!" Haha, sure thing. It doesn't "stand on its own". If you are going to make a claim, back it up. The data I presented isn't false now you dumbass. If you really think it is, you should be able to post your own rebutting it. Which I have invited you numerous times to do. "I don't need new evidence". That would imply you had evidence to begun with. You haven't even attempted to support the majority of your claims... It is like you learned about sources and evidence from the same place as half of the political board ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yes, yes, very clever. Attempt to flip it. Now I'm the one that knows nothing about the other side... Right. That's one way to try to back out of a losing argument I guess. You argument is a loser no matter what action you take. I said the majority of the contact and "physicality" is accidental, which is true. If your case for baseball being more physical than soccer is that sometimes people get clocked with the ball on accident, and in extremely rare cases serious injury or death occurs, you really have no case. I guess being a NASCAR driver is pretty physical too, since drivers have died in car crashes... Physicality of a sport is sustained thing. Not fluke, accidental plays here and there. Now you are trying to be coy and backpedal. The issue was how dangerous a sport is. .....Danger and physicality are two completely different matters....and danger was the issue you brought up. I am not ignoring facts that contradict my view. I invite you to find and post them. Find me multiple, reputable sources that support your views. So far, you have not provided that. Been done...multiple times. I have no idea what Steve's point was. As we went back and forth, I'm not sure he did either. If it was that black inner city kids play less soccer, then yeah, sure. I imagine without open space to run it would be pretty hard. If they wanted to play it, they would play it, open space or not. They play stickball in the streets. They just don't care about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I also figured you could break sports into how much Athleticism and how much Skill they take. You can...but that was NOT the issue. Cross Country running really doesn't take much skill, but it takes a ton of athleticism. Golf doesn't take much athleticism, but it takes a lot of skill. Most other sports fall within that spectrum. Also, #RespectTheHustle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Gipper: "I'm right because I say so!" Haha, sure thing. I am right because I am right. It doesn't "stand on its own". If you are going to make a claim, back it up. I did. Your problem if you missed it. The data I presented isn't false now you dumbass. If you really think it is, you should be able to post your own rebutting it. Which I have invited you numerous times to do. I didn't say it was false....I said your conclusions are false. "I don't need new evidence". That would imply you had evidence to begun with. You haven't even attempted to support the majority of your claims... I did...again, you must have missed it. Again...maybe we are talking apples and oranges.....but I made the point I intended to make. I am not going to make it again just because you are too obtuse. It is like you learned about sources and evidence from the same place as half of the political board ... I learned about evidence in law school....and CLE. You want to pay my retainer to teach you about it fine.....mail me a check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I also figured you could break sports into how much Athleticism and how much Skill they take. Cross Country running really doesn't take much skill, but it takes a ton of athleticism. Golf doesn't take much athleticism, but it takes a lot of skill. Most other sports fall within that spectrum. Also, #RespectTheHustle I lump athleticism in under a the "skill" umbrella term, since they're not necessarily mutually exclusive. At the broadest level, all sports require different skills...athleticism is just one of them. For golf, the skills are: mental acuity, emotional control, muscle control, knowledge, core strength, etc. For soccer, the skills are: endurance, athleticism, speed, muscle control, etc. For football, the skills are: athleticism, strength, speed, etc. For baseball, the skills are: hand-eye coordination, strategy, muscle control, mental endurance, etc. The skill sets are different for each sport, sure. Some require overall athleticism, some require more hand-eye coordination, some require more emotional and mental control, but they are incomparable skills and, as such, make the comparison of professional sports a true "apples and oranges" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I lump athleticism in under a the "skill" umbrella term, since they're not necessarily mutually exclusive. At the broadest level, all sports require different skills...athleticism is just one of them. For golf, the skills are: mental acuity, emotional control, muscle control, knowledge, core strength, etc. For soccer, the skills are: endurance, athleticism, speed, muscle control, etc. For football, the skills are: athleticism, strength, speed, etc. For baseball, the skills are: hand-eye coordination, strategy, muscle control, mental endurance, etc. The skill sets are different for each sport, sure. Some require overall athleticism, some require more hand-eye coordination, some require more emotional and mental control, but they are incomparable skills and, as such, make the comparison of professional sports a true "apples and oranges" argument. Except when you have athletes that crossover. I don't know of a single soccer player that would has played Football, Basketball, Baseball or Hockey at a high collegiate/professional level. However I am aware of Charlie Ward, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson, Dave Winfield, Jimmy Graham, Danny Ainge, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 You reject my conclusion that baseball is dying and soccer is growing. You have said that baseball is just as popular with kids as soccer. I am waiting to see any evidence to help support these claims. What determines how dangerous a sport is? Are we just talking youth or overall? Is it the number of absolute worst injuries in a sport (death) or the number of injuries overall? Is it concussions, because the chances of suffering a concussion in soccer is much higher than baseball (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987636/). I didn't bring up "danger", I was responding to what Steve said. Is danger just overall injury rate? In that case: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1941297/ http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/PublicHealth/research/ResearchProjects/piper/projects/RIO/Documents/2012-13.pdf Now, this is where you post anecdotal evidence about your kids or something, and act like you've proven a point. Go ahead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Except when you have athletes that crossover. I don't know of a single soccer player that would has played Football, Basketball, Baseball or Hockey at a high collegiate/professional level. However I am aware of Charlie Ward, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson, Dave Winfield, Jimmy Graham, Danny Ainge, etc.. Becaus the skills aren't as transferable from soccer to football as they are from basketball to football. It's going from a predominantly endurance-based, lower body dominated sport to a quick burst, power-based primarily upper body dominated sport. And before you get off on it being a "whole body" sport, its not. It requires core and lower body strength, but the majority of skill and technique is hand-eye coordination. I can't recall many NFL players making the leap to professional organized soccer, either. As an added benefit, almost none of the people you mentioned were proficient at both sports. Some were barely proficient at one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Becaus the skills aren't as transferable from soccer to football as they are from basketball to football. It's going from a predominantly endurance-based, lower body dominated sport to a quick burst, power-based primarily upper body dominated sport. And before you get off on it being a "whole body" sport, its not. It requires core and lower body strength, but the majority of skill and technique is hand-eye coordination. I can't recall many NFL players making the leap to professional organized soccer, either. As an added benefit, almost none of the people you mentioned were proficient at both sports. Some were barely proficient at one. Chad Johnson tried out for KC Sporting once, and he came away realizing he didn't have the conditioning required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Check with the administrators, maybe they will add a forum for soccer, possibly combined with hairdressing and home decorating. WSS It's called the "Barber Shop", it does discuss hairdressing, but nothing as gay as soccer. I don't think. I certainly hope not. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Do you think all a coach does in football is call plays? Are you asking this sarcastically or do you really have no idea what you're talking about? I've coached 7 to 11 year olds, the majority of what I focus on is fundamentals in practice. In a game, theres the basic subs and formation setting. There's also on the spot coaching opportunities to improve positioning, defense, decision making, etc. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with tho, but it looks like you're just showing you have no idea what you're talking about again. I said if soccer is just a bunch of light jogging and kicking a ball to you, then you really don't know anything about the sport. You're right Woody, I don't know anything about the sport. So please explain what a coach does during the course of a game...or is he just a highly paid cheerleader? Are there assistant and or position coaches? How many plays are there in a typical soccer playbook? Is there teamwork? In the other sports the positions are easy to recognize... each player is an expert at his position which is clearly defined by either what his job requires or his physical attributes... but soccer players look like gay clones of each other running around all over the field fighting over a ball with their little footsies. Soccer seems like a game invented for simpletons or people that lack special physical talent to play the other sports... which could explain its rising popularity...it's like everyone has a "right" to play a sport.LOL Why it is unappealing to real sports fans is that anyone can kick a ball ...and don't even go there about the level at which soccer players do it, its irrelevant...the bottom line is that anyone can run up and down a field kicking a ball, but not anyone can hit a 98 mph fastball, shoot a 3, or juke linebackers in addition to all the other skills required to play those respective sports. We always speak of American exceptionalism. Football reflects that. The greatest game ever invented. The true team sport where the success of every play is dependent on every player on the field...even when it comes down to kicking an extra point. All sports including soccer are fun to play, but I find it laughable that soccer players get paid to do what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 We'll have to put something together for the Women's World Cup in a week. Unless you HATE AMERICA STEVE! Sorry, too busy following the LPGA. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sorry, too busy following the LPGA. WSS Let me know if any of the competitors go down like they were hit with a bomb when they were untouched. And of course if it was a Red or Yellow Card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Let me know if any of the competitors go down like they were hit with a bomb when they were untouched. And of course if it was a Red or Yellow Card. Sorry I musta missed you point, but I was just being facetious. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 You reject my conclusion that baseball is dying and soccer is growing. You have said that baseball is just as popular with kids as soccer. I am waiting to see any evidence to help support these claims. Except...of course, that is NOT what I said.....I said baseball as spectator sport still far far out matches soccer.....and I surmised that there are probably still many more kids going to see baseball games than soccer games. When one sports get millions and millions more spectators....that is clearly going to be true. What determines how dangerous a sport is? Are we just talking youth or overall? Is it the number of absolute worst injuries in a sport (death) or the number of injuries overall? Is it concussions, because the chances of suffering a concussion in soccer is much higher than baseball (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987636/). I didn't bring up "danger", I was responding to what Steve said. Is danger just overall injury rate? In that case: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1941297/ http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/PublicHealth/research/ResearchProjects/piper/projects/RIO/Documents/2012-13.pdf Now, this is where you post anecdotal evidence about your kids or something, and act like you've proven a point. Go ahead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Bottom Line: I agree that soccer is far ahead of any other sport in one category........and for the name of this category I defer to my cousin....who is English: They have more Preening Pansies than any other sport: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 No I'm saying it's a screwed up game designed to make maximum money for all. Why did this fight take so long to happen? Both too busy making money beating up lesser boxers. Fight game is just corrupt is all I'm saying. Boxing needs Don King back to clean the sport up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 "woody is a soccer pansie, woody is a soccer pansie" Gipper nails it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Im lost.....are there any points being made here?... Is it that soccer sucks? or Baseball is more popular? Or some sport is more dangerous than another?.....wtf ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Im lost.....are there any points being made here?... Is it that soccer sucks? or Baseball is more popular? Or some sport is more dangerous than another?.....wtf ???? Woody is all over the place. I think the Preening Pansy reference about says it all for me. While I do talk soccer with him and the Brits, I agree with Z....that the subject should be RELEGATED to the minor league board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Bottom Line: I agree that soccer is far ahead of any other sport in one category........and for the name of this category I defer to my cousin....who is English: They have more Preening Pansies than any other sport: Yes. Thank You Soccer Gods. Now Lets Adjust that Soccer Bar Graph of TRUE Injuries.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Becaus the skills aren't as transferable from soccer to football as they are from basketball to football. It's going from a predominantly endurance-based, lower body dominated sport to a quick burst, power-based primarily upper body dominated sport. And before you get off on it being a "whole body" sport, its not. It requires core and lower body strength, but the majority of skill and technique is hand-eye coordination. I can't recall many NFL players making the leap to professional organized soccer, either. As an added benefit, almost none of the people you mentioned were proficient at both sports. Some were barely proficient at one. Baseball to football? Baseball to basketball. I'd put the NBA vs MLS in a combine style performance evaluation any day. Charlie Ward Heisman Trophy winner and solid NBA Career Deion Sanders Hall of Fame Cornerback and 162 Game MLB average .263 11 2Bs 10 HRs 47 SBs Bo Jackson All-Star in both NFL & MLB considered by many as greatest athlete of all time Dave Winfield Hall of Fame MLB drafted by the Hawks (NBA) & Jazz (ABA) & Vikings (NFL). Yeah they pretty much sucked. Soccer players may attempt to be place kickers in the NFL but they aren't playing any sport other than soccer and I can't think of one reason why any great athlete would choose "Europe's Pastime" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Damn Days and still no Woody response. Is it possible the new man running FIBA is named Woody?? Stay Tuned.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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