StinkHole Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 The point being missed in all these debates is that most of us have a gut instinct that "more" exists beyond this place in some shape or form we can't fathom. However, humans have made it sport to make shit up since pretty much we began this whole thing....and then try to hold our made up shit over other people. I see this genetically inherited behavior in virtually every single religious person I have "ever" met. They simply cannot be comfortable in their own faith. They "have" to have other people around them who believe in the same unknowable and unproveable narratives about what happens to us when we die. So much so that they will become violent, aggressive, accusative etc, etc, against any people who hold differing views. And in doing so most often go completely perpendicular to their own made up doctrines. Then the sneaky double speak comes out about oh this was justifiable and that was a direct order from God and who are you to question the will of god that we so clearly understand blah blah blah. ^^^When this is all said and done, that last paragraph was the sum total of the human experience. How fucking sad is that? We're gonna have to go "home" having written that piece of shit story? That was our grand novel in this universe? To fuck each other silly over made up bullshit? Utterly shameful. LOL...accusing every religious person you meet as violent, aggressive, and accusatory in a post full of accusations. Irony much? Talk about projecting. That's how you liberals play...you accuse Christians by labeling them homophobes, Islamophobes, misogynists. Sounds a bit accusatory and slightly aggressive to me....then you're panties get all rolled up when they try to defend themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nothing can produce a net of nothing. 0 = -1 + 1.Lomonosov and Lavoisier would laughingly disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wow, a global flood. Did Noah really get two of every animal on to his ark as well? For me the fact Jesus speaks about Noah and the flood in the bible is enough evidence to the bible account being true but others have looked at other evidence if it is physically possible for the biblical account to happen and say it is possible: Could Noah's Ark Hold all the Animals?https://carm.org/could-noahs-ark-hold-all-animals What about the species procreating after Noah's Ark?https://carm.org/species-procreating-after-noahs-ark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I amazed that a logical human being can believe in the Noah's Ark story. Even some devoutly religious folks I know prefer to think it was used only as a parable. Do you really believe someone lived in a whale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 You wouldn't get many arguments from me on the general goodness of NT teachings. When it comes to the "fulfilling" the old law stuff though that's horseshit. The NT is a "clear" deviation from the OT. They just couldn't bring themselves to admit that the OT was a load of moosecrap so the wrote in stuff like Jesus saying i'm here to fulfill the old laws. If he was indeed real he absolutely did not continue the old laws, he rewrote them...which is why they strung him up. Jesus said He was the I AM in the Old Covenant who spoke to Moses. This is why the Jewish leaders wanted him crucified: God then told Moses that He was sending him to the king of Egypt to deliver His people (the Jews) from bondage. Moses immediately felt insecure and wondered how the people would believe him. He asked, “…when I…say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors sent me to you.’ What if the people say, ‘What is his name?’ What should I tell them? Then God said to Moses, “I am who I am. When you go to the people of Israel, tell them, ‘I AM sent me to you’” (Exodus 3:13-14, NCV, emphasis added). Abraham and the prophets, like Moses and Elijah, were the superstars of the Jewish religion. Furthermore, Abraham and Moses had lived hundreds of years earlier. This led the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking to regard Him cynically. “The Jews said to him, ‘You have never seen Abraham! You are not even fifty years old.’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I am!’ When Jesus said this, the people picked up stones to throw at him. …” (John 8:57-59, NCV, emphasis added). His Jewish opponents were furious because Jesus had called himself by the very name by which God had identified Himself to Moses (Yahweh). But could Jesus have meant something else by using God’s name for Himself? The intense response of the Jewish leaders answers that question. They had no doubt that Jesus was claiming deity, which is evident by their reaction: they picked up stones to kill Jesus. They realized He was claiming to be the God who spoke with Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I amazed that a logical human being can believe in the Noah's Ark story. Even some devoutly religious folks I know prefer to think it was used only as a parable. Do you really believe someone lived in a whale? Did Jonah Really Get Swallowed by a Whale?Skeptics ridicule many portions of Scripture and let's face it—some of them are difficult to believe. Certainly one that has received a major dose of such ridicule deals with Jonah and the whale (or great fish). How could a whale or fish swallow a man whole? How could a man survive in such an environment for any length of time? As always, there are answers to the questions if we are willing to study and believe. First, let me say that the historicity of this account is vital to the Christian. Believing it is not an option, for Jesus Christ Himself believed it and made it a model for the doctrine of His resurrection. "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40). However, most importantly, the Bible says that "the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah" (Jonah 1:17). Clearly this event was miraculous and not a naturalistic phenomenon. The point is nothing about the story is totally impossible: There are "fish" large enough to swallow a man; men have been known to survive inside a "fish"; the Bible says it really happened; Christ said Jonah’s experience was an analogy of His own death and resurrection; and God is alive and capable of this feat. http://www.icr.org/article/did-jonah-really-get-swallowed-by-whale/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 No men have been known to survive inside a fish. The Bartley story, the only story of someone being swallowed and surviving a day, was found out to be nonsense made up by the sailors. Again, I would worry about my sanity if I started to believe the Noah and Jonah stories as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I doubt if there is much of anything in the bible you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Put others ahead of yourselves, love your neighbor as yourself, blessed are the peacemakers, a new commandment I give you to love one another, God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God, love is the fulfillment of the law, no greater love than to lay your life down for the brethren, ....I could go on and on (and on and on) with the teachings of Jesus and New testament teachings that speak of a better way to live. God is love, except when that god is killing every living thing inside of a city. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I doubt if there is much of anything in the bible you believe. Oh all of the historical locations and Jesus being an actual person I totally believe. The water into wine, guy living in a whale, Noah, and miscellaneous sky wizard stuff I definitely can't believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 0+0=0...0x0=0..............0=-1+1....100=-100+101.....500=-500+501...are you making a proper comparison? Not believing even using math is an illustration of something physical coming into being out of nothing Matter and Antimatter +1 and -1 Math can be used to explain everything. If you have the equations and you have the variables, everything can be explained by math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Lomonosov and Lavoisier would laughingly disagree. Amazingly, we've learned some things since the 1700s Again, this is in response to OBF's fool-proof "logic" as to why a god must exist. Modern science is discovering new things every day. I'm just bringing up the idea of matter and antimatter. Just saying, there really isn't any proof a god must exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 For me the fact Jesus speaks about Noah and the flood in the bible is enough evidence to the bible account being true but others have looked at other evidence if it is physically possible for the biblical account to happen and say it is possible: But you have no proof that what you read about Jesus is infact true. We only have historical proof of a man with that name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 For me the fact Jesus speaks about Noah and the flood in the bible is enough evidence to the bible account being true but others have looked at other evidence if it is physically possible for the biblical account to happen and say it is possible: Could Noah's Ark Hold all the Animals?https://carm.org/could-noahs-ark-hold-all-animals What about the species procreating after Noah's Ark?https://carm.org/species-procreating-after-noahs-ark Really? Are you being serious? This is exactly what I was talking about from before. "If it is in the Bible, then it must be true". THAT kind of flawed logic. Again, I'd love to see comparative brain scans. Here is my favorite line from your first link: "Did the flood really happen? Yes. Jesus said in Matt. 24:37-39 that the flood happened. If you can't trust Jesus, you can't trust anyone" It looks like that website is taking a page out of your book. Did this happen? "Of course it happened, Jesus said so!" Now I realize you probably can't understand this, but that isn't evidence. That's not how this works. Not to mention that link references a "Canopy Theory". Good look finding one reputable source defending that "theory"... The "evidence" provided in that first link are some Bible verses and and one guy doing some wonky math. I assume you'd need one of every kind of species currently on the Earth. I mean, if you are going to believe in something this asinine, I am assuming you're not going to believe in evolution. Also, how did the animals not all eat each other? What did they eat? How did Noah acquire animals from parts of the globe he didn't even know existed? What about genetic bottlenecking after the flood? This guy also doesn't count any fish, but a global flood would make all of the water saltwater, killing a ton of freshwater fish. What about all of the plant life? Being submerged for 40 days and nights, in saltwter, would have killed most plants. Honestly, the fact you actually believe this may be one of the dumbest things every posted on this forum. I get you are a Christian, and you believe in the ideas and morals presented in the Bible. But some of these man, you just have to let go. It only hurts your cause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Did Jonah Really Get Swallowed by a Whale? Skeptics ridicule many portions of Scripture and let's face it—some of them are difficult to believe. Certainly one that has received a major dose of such ridicule deals with Jonah and the whale (or great fish). How could a whale or fish swallow a man whole? How could a man survive in such an environment for any length of time? As always, there are answers to the questions if we are willing to study and believe. First, let me say that the historicity of this account is vital to the Christian. Believing it is not an option, for Jesus Christ Himself believed it and made it a model for the doctrine of His resurrection. "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40). However, most importantly, the Bible says that "the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah" (Jonah 1:17). Clearly this event was miraculous and not a naturalistic phenomenon. The point is nothing about the story is totally impossible: There are "fish" large enough to swallow a man; men have been known to survive inside a "fish"; the Bible says it really happened; Christ said Jonah’s experience was an analogy of His own death and resurrection; and God is alive and capable of this feat. http://www.icr.org/article/did-jonah-really-get-swallowed-by-whale/ Holy shit, and now you believe a guy was swallowed by a fish and survived for 3 days? Why? Because it is in the Bible? Come on man... I am amazed people like you still exist on this planet. I would have assumed most of this died out hundreds of years ago. How can you take the words in a book over everything else mankind has learned over the last centuries? How do you shun all of that evidence? It is almost insulting to everything our species has accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Holy shit, and now you believe a guy was swallowed by a fish and survived for 3 days? Why? Because it is in the Bible? Come on man... I am amazed people like you still exist on this planet. I would have assumed most of this died out hundreds of years ago. How can you take the words in a book over everything else mankind has learned over the last centuries? How do you shun all of that evidence? It is almost insulting to everything our species has accomplished. So how does this affect you again? Don't liberals espouse to "live and let live" and "to each his own" philosophies? Your amazed that "people like this Christian still exist on this planet", yet asshole liberals like you and Cleve presume throat slitting Muslims that believe there are 72 virgins waiting for them in heaven are simply misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 So how does this affect you again? Don't liberals espouse to "live and let live" and "to each his own" philosophies? Your amazed that "people like this Christian still exist on this planet", yet asshole liberals like you and Cleve presume throat slitting Muslims that believe there are 72 virgins waiting for them in heaven are simply misunderstood. Well, it doesn't directly affect me at all. I've said plenty of times people can believe whatever they want. It only matters when people like this get into positions that can affect me, like a politician. It is a little unsettling that there are probably politicians out there, with the job of representing the people, that hold the same beliefs OBF does. Read my posts instead of just guessing what you think they mean. He has every right to shun modern knowledge and hold the beliefs of centuries ago. I'm sure there are plenty of idiotic parts in Islam too. Of course, there isn't a Muslim posting that right now, a Christian is. I've said plenty of times I'm not a big fan of any religion. Some on here just think, that by me not calling all Muslims terrorists, I must be a sympathizer that agrees with their beliefs. That's idiotic, lazy, and just plain stupid. If you want to troll, bitch and moan, do a better job understanding your source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Holy shit, and now you believe a guy was swallowed by a fish and survived for 3 days? Why? Because it is in the Bible? Come on man... I am amazed people like you still exist on this planet. I would have assumed most of this died out hundreds of years ago. How can you take the words in a book over everything else mankind has learned over the last centuries? How do you shun all of that evidence? It is almost insulting to everything our species has accomplished. What our species has proved is that man has a sin nature. In thousands of years that sin nature has yet to evolve out of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Amazingly, we've learned some things since the 1700s Again, this is in response to OBF's fool-proof "logic" as to why a god must exist. Modern science is discovering new things every day. I'm just bringing up the idea of matter and antimatter. Just saying, there really isn't any proof a god must exist. Albert Einstein is a little smarter than Woody and even though Einstein could not believe in a personal God because of the existence of evil he did believe in God who created the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Guam will tip over and capsize...gee Woody there are liberal politicians in office who believe that? I think you should be more concerned about liberals who know little about anything being in government rather than a Christian politician like Mike Huckabee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well, it doesn't directly affect me at all. I've said plenty of times people can believe whatever they want. It only matters when people like this get into positions that can affect me, like a politician. It is a little unsettling that there are probably politicians out there, with the job of representing the people, that hold the same beliefs OBF does.I'd prefer a politician that "believes in a fairy tale" (as it were) than one that routinely shits all over our constitution (that pesky document each one of them swears to uphold & defend). But keep worrying about how someone interprets the Bible vs how another person ignores the constitution. Which one has a bigger role in politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I'd prefer a politician that "believes in a fairy tale" (as it were) than one that routinely shits all over our constitution (that pesky document each one of them swears to uphold & defend). But keep worrying about how someone interprets the Bible vs how another person ignores the constitution. Which one has a bigger role in politics? I prefer a politician that doesn't use the words in an old book to determine public policy. I also don't hold the constitution to be some infallible document that is perfect in every way. A lot has changed in over 200 years. The document was designed to evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I prefer a politician that doesn't use the words in an old book to determine public policy. I also don't hold the constitution to be some infallible document that is perfect in every way. A lot has changed in over 200 years. The document was designed to evolve. I'd rather not have my rights taken from me, but that's just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 , yet asshole liberals like you and Cleve presume throat slitting Muslims that believe there are 72 virgins waiting for them in heaven are simply misunderstood. Yeah no i've never said anything to the sort, you're pulling a straw man again you intellectual muppet. You perpetually exist on the level of a 3rd grader with your understanding of others arguments. You probably read something I said to the akin that not all muslims are throat slitters and we need to be understand that we have "some" culpability in helping said throat slitters in their recruitment efforts and need to check our foreign policy accordingly (ie trying our best not to bomb weddings)...and naturally took that to mean I have affinity for throat slitters. You have a child brain. Absolutely infantile. In ancient times someone like you wouldn't have made it out of their teenage years, someone... probably like myself, would have beaten you to death somewhere out in the wild in order that your genes don't pass on. Not saying those were great times living like animals, i'm just saying count yourself fortunate to live in a time where idiots like you are accepted and often glorified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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