calfoxwc Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper **************************************************** Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Manning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB. they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. There's only been one ten-year starter in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper **************************************************** Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Manning If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 There's only been one ten-year starter in our history. OK, misunderstood. Here is the roster of how many years a particular QB was the primary starting QB for the Browns (i.e started the most games in a particular season): Otto Graham 10 years Brian Sipe 8 years Bernie Kosar 7 years Frank Ryan 6 years Milt Plum 4 years Bill Nelsen 4 years Mike Phipps 4 years Tim Couch 4 years Vinny Testaverde 3 years Tommy O'Connell 2 years Derek Anderson 2 years Colt McCoy 2 years Paul McDonald, Mike Tomscak, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Garcia, Charlie Frye, Trent Dilfer, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer 1 year each Of these 10 one year wonders....only McDonald and Tomscak preceded "The Move". The other 8 have all been since 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered. HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold.... Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?..... 300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold.... Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?..... 300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math.... Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years. Take the last 25 years since 1990. As I see it the only QBs that could even sniff a HOF election are as follows: By decade: 1990s 1991 Brett Favre 1993 Drew Bledsoe 1995 Steve McNair 1998 Peyton Manning 1999 Donovan McNabb of these....only Favre and Manning are sure things the others are unlikely....that makes just 2 in that decade Plus the 1990s produced Kurt Warner....a probable. So make that just 3 HOF QBs produced during the 1990 decade 2000 Tom Brady 2001 Drew Brees 2003 Carson Palmer 2004 Roethlisberger/Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers 2005 Aaron Rodgers 2008 Matt Ryan this decade produced more probably 4 sure things, plus 2 high maybes plus a couple of borderline and below. 2011 Cam Newton 2012 Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson Halfway through the 2010 decade and so far just possibles. All these guys need to do more imo to basically cement HOF consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?..... Actually, lets examine this to this point: How many HOF QBs were drafted in the 1970s/80s. Here they are....and your statement of there being like 15 is way too high: 1970 Terry Bradshaw 1973 Dan Fouts 1979 Joe Montana 1983 Marino, Elway, Kelly 1984 Steve Young 1989 Troy Aikman plus in 1984 Warren Moon came in. That is 9 HOF QBs in a 20 year period. Which I think will be the same number when it comes down to it for HOF QBs in the 1990-2010 period: Favre, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, BR, plus Eli, Rivers...outside chances. Maybe when you say 70s QBs you refer to QBs that came out in the 60s but played in the 70s that are HOF. There are only 4 names on that list: Griese Namath Staubach Tarkenton So, to an extent, I think you are right. Players that some may consider great have been passed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years. yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's... There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there.... There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here is the list of players who are or could be HOF eligible who had a PFR Career Production average of 99 or above that are not in the HOF: Randall Cunningham Boomer Esiason Ken Anderson John Hadl Drew Bledsoe Steve McNair Donovan McNabb Rich Gannon John Brodie. Here is the next rung: QBs who scored in the 90s production wise who are not in HOF: Marc Brunell Trent Green Vinny Testaverde Phil Simms Steve Grogan Ken Stabler Roman Gabriel I know some people here say that none of the above should be put in. I may be a bit more liberal. Note on this: Active QBs already over 100: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, BR, Rodgers Active QBs in the 90s range so far: Eli: 96 Michael Vick 92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?..... Actually, lets examine this to this point: How many HOF QBs were drafted in the 1970s/80s. Here they are....and your statement of there being like 15 is way too high: Yep...that was off the top of my head. Went and looked and the actual # is 12. 1970 Terry Bradshaw 1973 Dan Fouts 1979 Joe Montana 1983 Marino, Elway, Kelly 1984 Steve Young 1989 Troy Aikman plus in 1984 Warren Moon came in. That is 9 HOF QBs in a 20 year period. Which I think will be the same number when it comes down to it for HOF QBs in the 1990-2010 period: Favre, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, BR, plus Eli, Rivers...outside chances. Maybe when you say 70s QBs you refer to QBs that came out in the 60s but played in the 70s that are HOF. There are only 4 names on that list: Griese Namath Staubach Tarkenton Yes....had these guys as 70's players..... So, to an extent, I think you are right. Players that some may consider great have been passed up. Right...And, as Ive said in the past, I personally wouldnt put all these QB in, over so many greats that aren't in yet...... Im much more of a stickler on this stuff.... Here is the list of players who are or could be HOF eligible who had a PFR Career Production average of 99 or above that are not in the HOF: Randall Cunningham Boomer Esiason Ken Anderson John Hadl Drew Bledsoe Steve McNair Donovan McNabb Rich Gannon John Brodie. Here is the next rung: QBs who scored in the 90s production wise who are not in HOF: Marc Brunell Trent Green Vinny Testaverde Phil Simms Steve Grogan Ken Stabler Roman Gabriel I know some people here say that none of the above should be put in. I may be a bit more liberal. That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's... There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there.... There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???..... yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's... There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there.... There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???..... Well, I actually think you get your wish to some extent. As noted, in the 90s there are only 3 sure things, Favre, Peyton and probably Warner. In the 5 years from 2005 to 2009....only one guy: Rodgers. The first half had more...but you can't deny their quality, can you? The entire decade of the 70s had just 3 HOFers drafted. Fouts, Bradshaw and Montana. The 80s had more...but there too, you cannot deny their quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^ I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^ I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts. I like Anderson the best from that list and would pick him from that group if I had to choose one.....he was always kinda low profile, but definitely an excellent QB...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I like Anderson the best from that list and would pick him from that group if I had to choose one.....he was always kinda low profile, but definitely an excellent QB...... OK....but....can I ask you a question? Why do you pick the absolute ugliest guys on the Browns to use as your avatar. I mean, remember when I had the Fear the Roo bikini chick for my avatar.....pleasing to the eye. Your avatars, however, can be revolting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Bito? Revolting? Shame on you. sir... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Bito? Revolting? Shame on you. sir... Ha!.....I agree.... To me....Bito's beautiful.....like a new born baby....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Bito? Revolting? Shame on you. sir... OK, not revolting....just uglier than sin. I mean, even Richard Nixon from his days playing for Whittier College is better looking, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Peyton Manning scared everyone but the Hawks defense. While the QB is undoubtedly the most important position on the field, look no further than organizations that have used good to great signal callers that have masked deficiencies in their teams. The Colts might be the best example. Without Manning and Luck they're total trash.[/quote Totally agree. The Colts are overrated and so are the Broncos. The Browns coaching staff could have a better than average year if they stick to the run and defense. Their mistake last year was Ben Tate and he's gone and the Oline is healthy. Go Browns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Today's article? Pryor looked amazing. It is without pads.. but the concern regarding him accelerating out of cuts, and the concerns about his hands.. should be gone. Pryor will be my final pick in fantasy this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Today's article? Pryor looked amazing. It is without pads.. but the concern regarding him accelerating out of cuts, and the concerns about his hands.. should be gone. Pryor will be my final pick in fantasy this year. I don't think they should be gone after one day. After all, they were only in shorts. Put on the gear and let's see if he grows alligator arms at the thought of being slobberknockered when he has to go over the middle. Good so far....but by no means is anything proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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