Mark O Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Which player's chances do you like better? Watkins getting healthy... or... Gilbert getting "it"? Neither really...Watkins could just be one of those fragile guys (like our very own Courtney Brown). I keep reading that Gilbert looks great in practice but then he never sees the field during the game on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns_Fucking_Rule Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think its funny that farmer always gets the blame for drafting bad picks... doesn't anyone think its possible that he is talking to the staff and selecting the players that the coaches say that they want? I'm not trying to give farmer a free pass or anything... I just find it odd that ppl want to say farmers ego got in the way and he had to draft a terrible player because he's such a douche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 And in hindsight to this point in the careers both Gilbert and Watkins are disappointments. Gilbert is at least contributing on special teams but Watkins can't stay healthy. So? We coulda/shoulda taken Mack right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 So? We coulda/shoulda taken Mack right? Yup... should have sprinted to the stage with that ticket the second he fell to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Yup... should have sprinted to the stage with that ticket the second he fell to us. Yep.... And on the Watkins side... Class act that one is: Sammy Watkins rips fans in deleted postThe Bills WR posted an Instagram picture of him and his daughter at Disney World during Buffalo's bye week (the post has since been deleted) and called fans who questioned his durability "losers" and told them to "continue working y'all little jobs for the rest of y'all lives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 I think its funny that farmer always gets the blame for drafting bad picks... doesn't anyone think its possible that he is talking to the staff and selecting the players that the coaches say that they want? No, personnel decisions fall on the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns_Fucking_Rule Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I hear ya Canton... I guess I was just curious because everything I have heard from the mouths of our Draft personnel is that they handle everything by committee... and if that is true? Then it appears that players are being drafted that the coaches say that they want. Maybe they just need to leave the coaches at home come next draft? I was always told while growing up, that the only way to evaluate a coach is to at least give them 3 years. GM's get 5 years. Right or wrong that used to be just the way it was or was supposed to be... idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I hear ya Canton... I guess I was just curious because everything I have heard from the mouths of our Draft personnel is that they handle everything by committee... and if that is true? Then it appears that players are being drafted that the coaches say that they want. Maybe they just need to leave the coaches at home come next draft? I was always told while growing up, that the only way to evaluate a coach is to at least give them 3 years. GM's get 5 years. Right or wrong that used to be just the way it was or was supposed to be... idk New owner, new HC, new GM, new OC, new DC, there's a bunch of on the job training going on. I just hope things start to get better...soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Despite what the media reports, do you think maybe that the first round picks have more to do with Haslam than Farmer? I find it kind of odd that Farmer can seemingly hit on players such as Bitonio, Shelton, Desir, Erving, Orchard, Gabriel, etc. yet fail miserably with Gilbert and Manziel. Wouldn't logic then point to the fact that maybe the higher marquee picks had some other brains behind them? Especially this is a damn good question. I really never thought about it like this before. Man this would really be damning of the owner if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 The Gilbert pick was on Pettine, all day. He says he wants a big athletic shut down corner to play his system, Gilbert's the guy, go get him. Manziel? Can't see that being a Pettine pick. Maybe a Farmer pick, but most likely a Haslam pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 The Gilbert pick was on Pettine, all day. He says he wants a big athletic shut down corner to play his system, Gilbert's the guy, go get him. Manziel? Can't see that being a Pettine pick. Maybe a Farmer pick, but most likely a Haslam pick. I'm not sure Pettine demands certain players - just attributes and skills to fit his scheme. I could see where he would want certain positions such as CB or DL, but saying he for sure wanted Gilbert and Gilbert only seems unlikely. Unless you have a link to a Pettine quote confirming..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'll take that bet. IF we lose to the Cardinals, no one gets fired. If we lose the rest of our games, someone will get fired. Someone bettter get fired. It is quite possible we could lose out and then all hell will break lose...aye yi yi. when will this organization finally get this boat turned in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Back to the topic. Parcells once said if I'm gonna be graded on how I cook the meal - you better let me buy the groceries. Who else besides Walter looks at a WR Corps that rarely ever scores TDs in the red zone and thinks - it's the damn coach not the GM. Whether one wanted Manziel here or not - who thinks it was a fabulous idea to draft a QB that many of our scouts and coaches didn't want? Who thinks Josh Gordon is REALLY going to be worth waiting for this time he screws up? "He's gonna" as it pertains to its tradition in Cleveland always means "he still hasn't." How many different colleges did he fool before our front office learned history repeats itself? Who saw a football soul in this guy? These are first round draft picks in recent years: Phil Taylor Bark Mingo (let me guess - all he needed was to be taught how to tackle? Super, we can use him in coverage on passing downs) Trent Richardson Brandon Weeden Cam Erving Justin Gilbert Johnny Manziel Danny Shelton (first year he's been asked to run wind sprints between snaps so I'll wait this one out) In a passing era we don't consider drafting WRs like Julio Jones, O'Dell Beckham, Allen Robinson, Mike Evans, Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen especially when we can either wait until round 2 to draft Greg Little (so we can TEACH him how to catch a football) or sign a has-been FA like Dwayne Bowe that has no reason to care about suiting up. Anyone really think our only problem is the Head Coach? Our WR Corps only caught 8 TD passes in 2014: Benjamin 3 Austin 2 Hawkins 2 Gabriel 1 Great reason for Farmer to be way too cool to try to help the QB position out in the red zone. COACHING is actually getting the ball to our best play makers (Barnidge & Benjamin) in the game plans; but teams can load up on them. We're stuck with 2 knee high slot receivers (trying to pawn one off as something different) that can't ever score TDs, break tackles or hurdle grass blades. Elusive? Want to know what it's like playing gridiron chess in Cleveland? Challenge someone to a game of chess and let your opponent use all his attack pieces while you just use pawns. Let me know how smart you look at the end of that one. It's like being in the SEC and choosing to waste your scholarships on kids that should be playing Division III football while the competition is recruiting kids like Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, O'Dell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, AJ Green and Patrick's Peter's-son. Is this really that tough when I see Oakland drafting Khalil Mack and Derek Carr in 1 draft before drafting Amari Cooper and adding Michael Crabtree a year later. What do we do? We draft Justin Gilbert and a QB that creates another Armaggedon in the front office to the extent the coaching staff never wants to see what they have in him. That sucks for a lot more than 1 guy's future here. 1 coach hated it so much - he's now in an environment in Atlanta that will make him a Head Coaching Candidate with Julio Jones outside, Matt Ryan at QB and a RB capitalizing on all the Safety attention Julio steals as well as the zbs. Since 1999, ownership in Cleveland hasn't quite figured out the difference between the illness killing this team and the inevitable symptoms of that. That's prolly why guys like AL Golden and Ken Whisenhunt are going to be the only ones interested in a Head Coaching vacancy here. We've watched countless Head Coaches get fired here since 1999; and yet it's never led to the upgrade worth keeping. What cracks me up is that guys like Walter White who HATE every single Head Coach the ownership selection criteria chooses - can't wait to get right back to the process they don't trust whatsoever. Make sense? It shouldn't... It does suck, if not the head coach, then who?. Because we keep drafting poorly and the fa's...yuckkkkkkkkk. This is pettines 2nd yr and at this point, it looks like we are going backwards and not foward..You just cannot afford to keep doing this, not in this division. Not saying it is pettines fault, but don't ya think someone is to blame here? We still stink, we are 2-5 and we lost our last 5 games last yr and got bounced out of the playoff picture. We still don't even have a future qb at this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 If we lose the rest of our games, someone will get fired. Someone bettter get fired. It is quite possible we could lose out and then all hell will break lose...aye yi yi. when will this organization finally get this boat turned in the right direction? That's not what you said. You said if we lose to the Cardinals someone is gettting fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's not what you said. You said if we lose to the Cardinals someone is gettting fired. I don't think that is true......but with another poor performance against the run......and Chris Johnson is right now the #2 rusher in the league.....I just think that O'Neil will be digging his grave deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 It does suck, if not the head coach, then who?. Because we keep drafting poorly and the fa's...yuckkkkkkkkk. This is pettines 2nd yr and at this point, it looks like we are going backwards and not foward..You just cannot afford to keep doing this, not in this division. Not saying it is pettines fault, but don't ya think someone is to blame here? We still stink, we are 2-5 and we lost our last 5 games last yr and got bounced out of the playoff picture. We still don't even have a future qb at this point... There's a lot of misplaced anger and frustration that wants it as easy as firing the HC that was sentenced to playing gridiron chess with pawns. If it was ever that easy, we wouldn't be firing Head Coaches every 2 years with shrinking volumes of interested candidates in the aftermath. If we fire a Head Coach just to find we're choosing between Al Golden and Ken Whisenunt at the end of this year - why? We fired Mangini to hire Pat Shurmur and we won even less games the next 2 years than the previous 2 years. When we fired Chud for Pettine, we not only improved by 3 wins - but our competitive value improved to 60 minutes as teams like Carolina, Buffalo, Balt twice, Indy and Pitt either had to erase 2nd half deficits or ties with us. That was an enormous improvement we need to keep in mind considering how long we've sucked at finding upgrades to the previous Head Coaches we were disappointed in. At 1 point in Pittsburgh, they came to a cross road where the owner had a decision to make between keeping GM Tom Donahoe or HC Bill Cowher. Unfortunately, they upgraded the GM considerably which also improved the drafting for the philosophy/schemes of the Coaching Staff. Knowing which person was the bigger anchor to progress sure changed the direction there. When Mike Pettine worked in NY with 2 shutdown corners securing the back end, the front 7 of the D was good enough to make 2 consecutive AFC Championships. In our 2014 draft, he may have told Farmer he wanted an elite corner or one determined by the scouting dept and Farmer to be the best. That said, none of us really knows to what extent he had autonomy on making the decision of corners. There was also a damn good offensive line winning time of possession wars throughout the learning curve of Mark Sanchez. They had Nick Mangold, D'Brick Ferguson, and Alan Faneca just to name a few. NY made that an easier place to play QB. I can't blame our staff or front office for expecting continued progress from our offensive line for the running game this year when I overrated what they projected just as much. I get the feeling Pettine was hoping to have that NY model here but we've had trouble keeping our #1 and our #3 corners healthy this year while Gipson (after being disappointed w/contract) has been injured most of the year. That's 3 DBs we went into the year really counting on folks. It's impacted things. My frustration after watching a WR Corps only contribute 8 TD receptions to the running game that was carrying us throughout much of 2014 - is we added ZERO to help the QB in our red zone passing game in 2015. As I mentioned somewhere, the COACHING is actually getting a career best out of the wing span/catch radius of our 6'6" TE Gary Barnidge. Benjamin leads the WRs again in TD receptions but most of those were from outside of the red zone beating corners deep. I'm also frustrated we drafted a QB that only half of those in charge gave a stamp of approval to. Doesn't matter if me or any other fan was excited or nervous about it - we're a franchise that can't afford to flush any more first round picks down the toilet. If the divide was that big to the extent that all we'll ever do with the pick is make a 3-4 year intern out of the QB - ummm WTF? That didn't do 1 person in the front office, coaching staff or fan base any favors. If we DID draft a guy like Carr - would Farmer/those in charge have been smart enough to surround him with guys like Cooper and Crabtree outside or keep the QB sentenced to tiny 5'7" targets with not much of a catch radius? Even worse, I can't imagine QBs like throwing short slant passes downward when there's a bunch of pass rushers over 6'3" tall. That asks a lot of your QB. We're lucky McCown isn't playing like he's 36 years old; but he's getting beat up enough to feel like he's 40 right now. If we had enough outside to respect, it would open things up for the running game as we started to find during our 0-5 conclusion in 2014. We're not promoting a balanced attack QBs need. Knowing Kikko Alonso was defensive rookie of the year with O'Neil as his position coach; while our LBers improved considerably in coverage in 2014 (Craig Robertson in particular) - I'd keep him as a LBer Coach only and advise Pettine to hire a new DC immediately if I was Jimmy. I'd also make whoever is accountable for messing up the draft inform me how he's going to improve that process. If I don't like what I hear, I've already been busy researching candidates that can't do worse. I'd also try to talk with the team leaders and emphasize their importance overall or empower Pettine to have this chat. If Joe Thomas would have walked up to the tune box blasting in our locker room immediately after the loss in St Louis and crushed it by stepping down on it with 1 foot - I guarantee it would have created a church mouse effect while delivering the message to everyone that needed to receive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 the myth of some new regime walking in and going from last place to super bowl winning champs is ridiculous......... most that go from last to first were handed a stacked team to begin with. someone please give me an example of what team did this and where are they at now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 the myth of some new regime walking in and going from last place to super bowl winning champs is ridiculous......... most that go from last to first were handed a stacked team to begin with. someone please give me an example of what team did this and where are they at now? No one is asking a new regime to walk in and win a Superbowl. They are asking the new regime to draft good football players, make good FA acquisitions, and play hard passionate football on Sundays instead of this lazy sloppy infested bullshit Pettine and Farmer put on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 So many know it all's in here. I'm fucking amazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not sure im going to watch this game. Depends on how nice the day is tomorrow. I figure there's a very high probibility of a browns loss so maybe it's a trap game. Maybe I'll dvr it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I have to miss tomorrow's game because of family stuff. I missed last weeks game too, but I will be in the Tavern on Thursday to watch us upset the Bungles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm not sure im going to watch this game. Depends on how nice the day is tomorrow. I figure there's a very high probibility of a browns loss so maybe it's a trap game. Maybe I'll dvr it. I'm never that smart. I get on the bi-polar coaster every Sunday and go from game face to X's and Uh-O's. Then, I get to read "Fire the Coach" every week from the same knucklehead that thinks Al Golden or Ken Whisenhunt is the solution to all our problems. Once in a while I buffer my expectation like the Denver game before the Browns reel me back into "hey we can win this game!" This week? I'm not that smart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I don't think that is true......but with another poor performance against the run......and Chris Johnson is right now the #2 rusher in the league.....I just think that O'Neil will be digging his grave deeper. That's probably true Gipper. That said, I never got the impression this was O'NEIL's defense. It's Pettine's defense that is getting puppeted through O'Neil with a turbulent learning curve full of growing pains for the DC and players. If Jimmy ends up demanding that Pettine fires O'Neil - he's basically firing a part of himself. Not much different than when Modell wanted Marty to hire an OC back when Marty wanted to keep Infante's offense after he was gone. The problem wasn't the design of the offense it was the lack of organizational skills and lack of experience our Infante replacement had that led to big clock management blunders. More specifically, if it wasn't coming from Lindy Infante - it wasn't going to look like his offense to anyone but the Head Coach with the idea. I think we can find another DC candidate that can run hybrid fronts compatible with a lot of the personnel we have. This would actually promote more growth for Mike Pettine than staying in his comfort zone today. Last week, we began the game with the defense playing good. It was our offense that gave up the first TD while their turnovers and penalties never gave us a vibe they were going to be worth more than 2 FGs all game long. I wonder how it would have played out if we could have ever possessed the ball for a 7 -8 minute drive punctuated by a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think we can find another DC candidate that can run hybrid fronts compatible with a lot of the personnel we have. This would actually promote more growth for Mike Pettine than staying in his comfort zone today. First, post 172, your long one was really good stuff. As for the above, great angle that hadn't really come up to this point. Group think is a deadly sin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I can't defend this circus anymore. Need a new DC.....and while McCown can be OK at times....I think we need to get the fresh blood evaluated at QB.....be it JMZ or Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I can't defend this circus anymore. Need a new DC.....and while McCown can be OK at times....I think we need to get the fresh blood evaluated at QB.....be it JMZ or Davis. If there's a Thursday Night Massacre in Bungle Town, It's going to get so ugly- I don't see anyway possible Pettine can "Stay the Course". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If there's a Thursday Night Massacre in Bungle Town, It's going to get so ugly- I don't see anyway possible Pettine can "Stay the Course". Bye week......Pettine stays. DC's head rolls though....maybe another coach or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If there's a Thursday Night Massacre in Bungle Town, It's going to get so ugly- I don't see anyway possible Pettine can "Stay the Course". it should be a massacre. bengals o has not erupted lately. they will thursday night....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 We're going to steam roll the Bengals this Thursday night. Book it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Attaboy, bb... And I actually agree. Totally irrational, but I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.