Mudfly Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Ok.....kinda worn out on all the group think about scheme, coaching and mis-using players, etc..... Can we take an honest look at whats different this year, from last year?...cause to me, its one thing PASS DEFENSE...thats it...the one BIG difference....(not scheme or coaching, which are the same)... Last season, we had the #1 pass defense, which is the only reason we were in most of those games(plus the fact that we had an UBER easy schedule)....so........ A good pass defense forces the QB to hold the ball.....and when he holds the ball, we get more time to rush the passer More time to rush means,,,more sacks....more hurries....and more bad(rushed) passes... And that means the defense gets interceptions...and interceptions stop the other team from scoring, and give our team EXTRA chances to score..... So....a bad pass defense will net less sacks, less interceptions, more yards thru the air, and more TD's thru the air...... Now.....lets looks at last years numbers compared to this years numbers.....shall we???? 2014 2015 Passing yards: 224 ypg 262 ypg .....+17% increase.....(huge drop off) Rushing yards: 141 ypg 136 ypg .....- 3.5% decrease...(slight improvement) Passing TD's 1.3 pg 2.1 pg ......90% increase.......(huge drop off) Rushing TD's: 1.0 pg 1.0 pg .......same... Interceptions: 21(1.3 pg) 8.0(.6 pg).....50% decrease..... (huge drop off) Sacks: 31(1.9 pg) 17(1.4 pg).....25% decrease......(huge drop off)... Interesting stats is that the "team"(less Kruger) averaged 1.2 sacks this year AND last year, meaning that Kruger is really the only difference between this years sacks and last years sacks...... So...the same rushing yards, same rushing average, same rushing TD's......but way worse when we look at passing yards, passing TD's, interceptions and associated sacks.... And the D line and LB's have basically the EXACT sme numbers this year, as last year.....same tackles, same sacks, same rushing averages, same everything.....so, to say we've started to use them differently or have changed the scheme is a fallacy..... The ONLY difference is the pass D....which has affected everything else...... And, its not due to a new scheme....or using the players differently.....its due to Haden and Gipson missing most of the season....and not playing well in the games they were here..... Traymon has put up better #'s than Skrine and Donte has been his usual self.... BUT, Poyer, Gaines and Desir are NOT Gipson and Haden.....period..... And, if your pass defense isnt up to snuff, good QB's will take advantage....and thats what happened......instead of getting run all over, this year we got sliced by Big Ben, Phillip Rivers, Andy Dalton(twice), Derek Carr, Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.....so, that is 7 games that we lost to great QB's, who all saw what Im trying to spell out here......a team that could easily be passed on.... And they got us......Manning, Rivers and Carr all snatched a victory at the end, in games that we probably would have won last season.....with a better pass D..... So.....to those that say we are worse because Kruger has to cover....or Oneill made bad calls.....or we changed the scheme.....or whatever your reason is.....I say BAH HUMBUG.... Its the pass D.....The numbers show it.....And, when we get our DB's back, it will change..... And Iv shown, numerous times now, how Kruger and the other LB's are paying the same(yet people keep claiming otherwise) and the D line is actually a touch better......and NOW ive shown how the pass D failed and backed it with stats......so..... If you disagree(which is cool)....PLEASE.....for almost the hundredth time.....someone show me where the scheme changed....or where all these mis-uses of players are occurring.....or where Oneill made all the "bad calls" I keep hearing about..... Lastly....as mentioned on another thread....Id like people to consider that, while saying coaching is the reason these guys are playing poorly, people REFUSE to acknowledge that many of our players have had their best seasons under Pettine..... Players who have had "career years" include....Barnidge, Schwartz, McCown, Benji, Gipson, Greco, Hawkins, Skrine and Kruger..... Players who have maintained their level of play or gotten better since coming here, with no drop off from the previous year, include.....Lee, Starks, Traymon, Dansby, Whitner, Thomas, Haden, Bryant, Austin and Robertson .... And young players we've brought in have also played well and developed, like.....Kirksey, Bito, Duke, Kwaun, Gabe, Orchard & Shelton.... So.....this year I see some injured guys who have dropped off....Haden, Gipson & Mack are 3 Pro-Bowlers who have not been themselves....but Im blaming injury, not the coach...... Kruger and Mingo have dropped off, but I blame the pass D, which I think was the main reason they did better last year..... And Bito and Crow both seem to have suffered from the sophmore jinx.....but certainly not because of ONeill....right?...... So...there is my view....the pass D hurts everything.....But I dont see players getting worse...... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 If all these guys have had career years under Pettine and the team still sucks, what does that say about the make up of the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 It tells me we dont have the talent to win yet.... and even our best guys.....including those who have had career years, are still just slightly above average at best..... And none are stars..... And that some players can have "their" best year, and still be just ok..... and when you only have 5 really good players.....and 3 of them go down....that you are screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 so we need a new person picking the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieCamacho84 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 I'm glad I can still come here and find intelligent analyses like this and not just "sky is falling" hysteria. Thanks Mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 I'm glad I can still come here and find intelligent analyses like this and not just "sky is falling" hysteria. Thanks Mud. and thank YOU for reading and giving this perspective a chance... Hope Haslem is doing his research too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 so we need a new person picking the players Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 That about wraps the D-side up... Now about our run game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 That about wraps the D-side up... Now about our run game? Ha!...not my dept.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Meh i just dont like the philosophy of the coaching scheme i like a nice simple aggressive defense up front. And a power run play action offense. Power run to to be confused with zone run. You know when jt pushed left and austin pushed right and made a hole for crow and he got 20 then 55 on the other side with john and mitch. Like mud i agree the talent could be higher than it is but instead of just bitching about. Wahh lack of talent waahh...i put it on each coach to maximize the talent we do have. If they fail then we get coaches who can maximize talents and hide weakness. Its ALOT simplier than its being made out to be. Today we ran a simplified running scheme with alot of draws,traps and power rather than zone we also threw more the the perimeter where john could see amd have clear throwing lanes.Defensively we played more designed plays rather than react plays. We gained the step we lost today and it was evident on the field. I didn't really see anything I liked out of manziel unfortunately still in the camp to get a replacement early in the draft. Good gamr and good on the coaching for finally simplifying the scheme today. Look for more of the same for the next 3 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Only problem is, CDS, you need to make a case that the talent is there. On which play did Joe go left, etc.? Crow's first run was straight ahead, drive blocking by all with an inside zone look... His subsequent TD was a classic X with Joe right and Paz left... His 2nd long run was on a trap by Greco with Joe and Paz both collapsing SF's RDE inside. Crow's 2nd TD was an aggressive, inside ZBS. Check it out... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/49ers_vs_Browns_highlights/2708c2c4-135f-44f2-92d1-9bb0a048b79e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Superb analysis Mud! Thank you. Hopefully Haslem is seeing it too. Our Draft was rated highly last year so I presume with another good Draft and hopefully some decent free agency signings that will see us more competitive. Replacing/covering Haden seems high on the wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'm glad I can still come here and find intelligent analyses like this and not just "sky is falling" hysteria. Thanks Mud. For most of the people who visit this board, the sky fell 6 weeks ago or more. But I'd rather read true analysis like what was posted there then the "fire everyone" and "this team sucks" every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Make-Believe Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Great analysis, Mud. And your work in recent weeks to shut up the slogan rhetoric has been heroic. It seems to me that you're arguing for some roster turnover. Any ideas for bang-for-buck (not money-wise, but where the biggest improvements that could be made in the fewest moves) changes that you think would pay high dividends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Great analysis, Mud. And your work in recent weeks to shut up the slogan rhetoric has been heroic. It seems to me that you're arguing for some roster turnover. Any ideas for bang-for-buck (not money-wise, but where the biggest improvements that could be made in the fewest moves) changes that you think would pay high dividends? Given Mud's 'fondness' for pointing out Kruger's failings, outside linebacker would probably be at the top of the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Given Mud's 'fondness' for pointing out Kruger's failings, outside linebacker would probably be at the top of the list Yes....true.....I admit it.... The guy couldnt possibly be any more under my skin than he is......it's just that I expect the 2nd highest paid defensive player to make an occasional tackle or something.... And, when he points fingers and blames others for his shortcomings, then it really burns me up extra.....especially when other less experienced back-up players step into his spot and produce more than double his numbers....every game.... And, any player who makes $8 mil a year, shouldnt go 7 out of 13 games with a zero stat line...... he's the Dwayne Bowe of our defense, except he puts up Bowe like #'s while playing 30 snaps a game.... Thats just really hard to ignore when your d sucks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'm not saying you're wrong buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I read where the defensive line coach of the Browns came up with a great pass rush plan for the niner game. and. that last game sure seems to have been less clusterfook on miscommunication, maybe even almost? none. I know they aren't running on first down all the time anymore - maybe the defense staff realized they had to quit being so micromanaging. Something was really different about the way the players were playing, and it was great. Sure seems like the coaches tried to fix what THEY were doing wrong. Joe Haden could take on any wr in the NFL. Not so with the rest of the secondary. You can bet A.J. Green and Antonio Brown did a happy dance when they realized that Haden was out. He was the only guy they had who could play on an island with the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I'm not saying you're wrong buddy. Ha....I get it.....and you're right....I would draft OLB early for sure.....and sign a couple too.... It's looking like Von Miller is gonna be UFA....so, if were are gonna have one of the highest paid in the league,,,,,.he would be a much better look than Kruger.....especially at that price........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Ha....I get it.....and you're right....I would draft OLB early for sure.....and sign a couple too.... It's looking like Von Miller is gonna be UFA....so, if were are gonna have one of the highest paid in the league,,,,,.he would be a much better look than Kruger.....especially at that price........ He may have improved a little, but is he not one of the most one dimensional OLBs around? I know when we drafted mingo the 'hope' was that he'd be a von miller style pass rush specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Great analysis, Mud. And your work in recent weeks to shut up the slogan rhetoric has been heroic. It seems to me that you're arguing for some roster turnover. Any ideas for bang-for-buck (not money-wise, but where the biggest improvements that could be made in the fewest moves) changes that you think would pay high dividends? Yeah...I think talent trumps all....so, as usual, a few should go and we need some play makers..... If it was me, I add OLB's and CB's....cause, in addition to the terrible play at OLB, I think Haden and Traymon will be needing more help.....Traymon will be another year older and was supposed to be the bridge to Gilbert....but we have to assume Gilbert isnt the guy....and Haden?....who knows if he'll be back or how good he will be?.... I think Mingo and Kruger are overpaid dead weight and would be my first choices on D to go..... Next year, Id also start playing Campbell more, because he has a nose for the ball and I think he'll end up being an excellent safety.....and one that can stuff the run! He may have improved a little, but is he not one of the most one dimensional OLBs around? I know when we drafted mingo the 'hope' was that he'd be a von miller style pass rush specialist. Von is light years better than anybody we have....monster pass rusher AND run stopper....very very solid..... Mingo...as much as I hoped he would figure it out, just doesnt seem to have it....he's great in pursuit, but never seals the deal by making the tackle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 If we want OLB who can run and tackle, we should draft... OLB's who have demonstrated they can run and tackle. A Bryant is a DE who can kinda run. Mingo is a guy with no position [not fast enough for safety, not big enough for LB] who makes up for it by barely being able to tackle. It's like the coaches want to run the high school 5-2 and then wonder why people are open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Whatever analysis of this defense you may want to elicit......just let it be known: Yesterday the Browns halted their NFL record of consecutive games giving up 24 or more points a game. So...unless they play like that a couple of other times this year, I am not sold on how good they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I am not sold on how good they may be. Is anybody sold on this defense?......dont think so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Great analysis, Mud. And your work in recent weeks to shut up the slogan rhetoric has been heroic. I concur and with tour's cold (or cold hearted ) take on things it makes for some fine thought and discussion here. However even the most anti-JFF on here will have to admit that often times that little elf makes runs/throws multiple times a game that make you stand up and go, "Holy Shit!" And for my money that keeps the game really fun to watch, because you just can't predict when he is gonna do it (and neither can those chasing him). How much fun was it to watch him make a fool of a pro-bowler yesterday to the point that the guy had to retaliate against anyone in a Browns uniform out of the pure frustration of trying to kill that little fucker, but whiffing every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 lol... you say cold, I say objective... Actually I said, "Oh Fuck"... and it was once... and not a lot of fun. Winning is fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedinaDawg Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yes, thanks for putting that analysis together for us. It kind of supports my belief that you keep Pettine for another year. He couldn't control those injuries in the secondary, or in the receivers group. The talent-depleted secondary hurt the whole defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Von is great in coverage too IIRC. Has also played both 4-3 and 3-4, in addition to 4-3 DE at A&M (the year he had 18 sacks). But what's this about his FA status? Are the Broncos not going to resign him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Von is great in coverage too IIRC. Has also played both 4-3 and 3-4, in addition to 4-3 DE at A&M (the year he had 18 sacks). But what's this about his FA status? Are the Broncos not going to resign him? Well....he is UFA.....but Im sure Denver will do all they can to sign him....just a pipe dream really..... My theory is that, with the way this FO throws away money(Kruger and Bowe come to mind)....why not at least try to overpay some good players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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