The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Try adding caffeine to your list.... Jesus, Gip...we get it. You're nearly out-Ghoolieing Ghoolie... and with one your patented, inside-the-quote, itemized replies to tia above the gap is barely discernible. Had you thrown in a cuss or two you'd have nailed it. I do the same as you....just like you did here...inside the quote itemized replies. That is what lawyers are trained to do....Have you never seen an answer to a complaint? And all after "hearing" Trubs might not even come out... No shit Sherlock. I understand that. Obviously everything is predicated on him coming out. What was your point in listing "taller" QBs...if not to imply that MT is short? I'll bet you a pitcher we agree much more than we disagree this year... again... Not sure that there is a way to objectively determine that.....so I suggest you go ahead and buy the pitcher under any circumstances....just out of general principles. .. and in return? You bring "the Hooker"? Who? Malik? I will bring him at #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Alright. I'm not doubting you by the way, I am searching for information. I am pretty much into the Browns current season all year and I don't even sniff draft stuff until after the season, so I am dipping into the pool. You seem to be locked onto this guy, so I am thinking one of two things: 1. He's a local boy, and you love all things local, so you've decided you're just going to defend him to the death. Has nothing to do with him being local. That only helps with public relations. or: 2. You've seen him play a lot and were flat out amazed at his skills. I said that I think he has more QB skills than any QB that has come out in the last two years. And, yes, there are some things that I have seen that I think are amazing. I think the raw material is there. Like I have said repeatedly, I think he has Aaron Rodgers qualities. Because, here's me: 1. The local hook is nice and all, but I want the best player for the Browns. Lots of nice fluffy stories when we drafted Frye and Quinn, but they sucked. See above, yes, I agree, all fine and well to have local flavor for PR purposes...but....that is all there is to that. and : 2. I've seen him play a few times and never been blown away. The only time I was really in "scout" mode was watching the second half of his bowl game. Was actually pretty down on him until his last drive when he showed a wicked arm. But comes off as raw and at 6'3 209 he is no Roethlisberger/Tannehill/Wentz body, not sure where people are coming up with that, he's closer to Colt McCoy. I am not one that compared his body to those guys. He is not as huge and stiff as those guys, at all. So I am just trying to find out what the hubbub is all about. If he comes out and rises up the chart like Wentz because of the arm/mobility combo, it won't shock me ... but Prescott had arm and mobility and went in fourth round. So what am I missing? Accuracy? Intangibles? Smarts? Yes, if you don't see those, then I would say, yes, you are missing them. Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership. What else do you want in a QB? The ability to make a good brioche? Is he a dirt dog like Andrew Luck? I am not sure what you mean by being a dirt dog. And I am not saying that he is an Andrew Luck level prospect. There have been only 3 of those in the last 35 years. Someone sell him to me without mentioning his high school or his strong arm ... cause I need more. Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership, the ability to make a good brioche. Zombo Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership, the ability to make a good brioche. That sounds like Shep every single day from 2007 to 2009 trying to sell me on Brady Quinn. He supposedly had all those things. Then he played on Sundays and looked like he shoulda been home making a brioche. I'm with you on arm strength and mobility, I've seen those. Did not know he possessed all those other things. His "touch" must have been off the times I caught him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 But most importantly, I wasn't saying that Mitch isn't worthy of being our QB because he's small, I actually like Mitch. Calling a 209 QB big is just strange to me, is all I'm saying. I am not the one who said anything about him being "big"....except to say that at 6'3 209 he was "big enough"....and I said he could probably use another 10-12 pounds of muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership, the ability to make a good brioche. That sounds like Shep every single day from 2007 to 2009 trying to sell me on Brady Quinn. No one is saying that there are not risks to taking a QB high. Sure, you can get Peyton Manning or you can get Jamarcus Russell....but I will say the same as I said to Ghoolie: the Browns are not in a position to be squeamish. We can't say "oohh, lets not take a potential franchise QB...because it may not work out". He supposedly had all those things. Then he played on Sundays and looked like he shoulda been home making a brioche. Why am I now hungry? I'm with you on arm strength and mobility, I've seen those. Did not know he possessed all those other things. His "touch" must have been off the times I caught him. Well, I have seen him at times when his touch was spot on. Is he "raw"? Certainly. Look how raw Elway and Manning and Favre and others were coming out. But, in addition to being raw....there is "raw material" there that I think is fairly rare. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 By the way, when I call Andrew Luck a "dirt dog" that is the football equivalent of a gym rat. Football: Eats it, sleeps it, lives for it. Isn't flying to Vegas on his one day off, isn't on Instagram every night. That shit is fine for wide receivers, but i want my QB to be as boring as a Manning, focused as Brady, and rolling in the mud like Favre. That's Andrew Luck. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 By the way, when I call Andrew Luck a "dirt dog" that is the football equivalent of a gym rat. Football: Eats it, sleeps it, lives for it. Isn't flying to Vegas on his one day off, isn't on Instagram every night. That shit is fine for wide receivers, but i want my QB to be as boring as a Manning, focused as Brady, and rolling in the mud like Favre. That's Andrew Luck. Zombo OK, got it. Good point. You may want to ask Stan about that. He knows him more intimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You mean "Allen and Garrett"... Well one of us loses, since I'd want a guarantee they are not Brett Fucking Favre... So? You would not want a QB with Brett Favre like qualities? I don't know if there is anything that can be said. Like for starters... he's not that big. How big does a QB have to be to win a Super Bowl? You should know by now I'm not a Favre fan. Typically, now you're changing the argument... you were the one putting Trubs in Big Ben's size category... not me. And I generally don't reply inside a quote... and I'm not a lawyer... and you should stop giving folks here more reason to hate lawyers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I'll bet you a pitcher we agree much more than we disagree this year... again... In general we seem to have a similar eye except on QB's. We agreed Manziel would not be what he was drafted for. I'm terms of prospects we differed on Grayson and Wentz/Goff if I remember right. Draft seems clear cut this year. I feel we agree on our first pick. Beyond that...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You should know by now I'm not a Favre fan. And why is that? He was, after all one of the biggest winners of all time. Typically, now you're changing the argument... you were the one putting Trubs in Big Ben's size category... not me. Bullshit. I never said one fucking word about him being that size. What is BR....6'5 250? I never claimed that at all. And I generally don't reply inside a quote... and I'm not a lawyer... and you should stop giving folks here more reason to hate lawyers... No, my clients love me, and they hate the others guy's lawyers. Didn't you know that is the way it is? People don't like lawyers because they have to pay lawyers to get them out of trouble. If you didn't get in trouble in the first place you wouldn't have to pay. And if you didn't get in trouble in the first place you wouldn't have some other persons lawyer coming after you. So, it all falls on you: if you didn't fuck up, you wouldn't have to hate the other lawyer and you wouldn't have to pay your own. Moral of the story: don't be a fuckup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You want #1 overall to go QB? With this year's crop? I'm not sure I see value there. How not, Trubisky is in the top 10 sometimes top 5 of every draftboard I've seen. The value is there. The "value" is that our favorite QB will not be available when we pick again. We won't be a competitive franchise until we have a guy that can at least be mediocre as a starting QB in the NFL. The best way to do that is to get your favorite QB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted January 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'm with you on arm strength and mobility, I've seen those. Did not know he possessed all those other things. His "touch" must have been off the times I caught him. Zombo Despite my criticism of his bowl game, I also remember the last minute drive for a TD which was under time pressure, blitz pressure, and he hit 3 receivers for the touchdown - hit them right in the numbers - and only one of them hung on to the ball. The longest throw was a beauty - right in the sprinting receivers chest - and he drops the fooking ball! Yes, he made several costly mistakes but certainly has more talent than just arm strength and mobility. He's accurate and plays well for someone that's only started this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I'm with you on arm strength and mobility, I've seen those. Did not know he possessed all those other things. His "touch" must have been off the times I caught him. Zombo Despite my criticism of his bowl game, I also remember the last minute drive for a TD which was under time pressure, blitz pressure, and he hit 3 receivers for the touchdown - hit them right in the numbers - and only one of them hung on to the ball. The longest throw was a beauty - right in the sprinting receivers chest - and he drops the fooking ball! Yes, he made several costly mistakes but certainly has more talent than just arm strength and mobility. He's accurate and plays well for someone that's only started this year. one great throw does not make a #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John.R.Brown1968 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 1. OLB Myles Garrett 2. S Jamal Adams 33. FS Budda Baker and let's throw in: Desmond King, CB Iowa (assuming he's still available by then) Thoughts? Depends on who we have as DC. If we're still 3-4, I want Allen (stack him with Shelton & Des Bryant), and I really like Adams (he could probably even rover to LB at times), though I'd prefer Foster or Cunningham. But if we're 4-3, then YES, absofuckinlutely Garrett, Adams, Baker, best avail CB. Four defensive picks. "If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast, and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Fix the fucking defense." Gregg "The Wolf" Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I wipe my ass with the Browns and Orange report. Why not quote what Seth Myers, or some other gay, homo, cocksucker thinks we should do in the draft? The Browns need a QB. Hey don't need anything else. hey can draft all the "fill" players they want. Hey need to get a QB. The rest is horse shit. If we drafted Geno Smith, would be ok then and not need anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 If we're still 3-4, I want Allen (stack him with Shelton & Des Bryant)... You are damn near as smart as you are good looking... Why not quote what Seth Myers, or some other gay, homo, cocksucker thinks we should do in the draft? Someone like you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 '43' and '34' be damned. The idea of that being exclusively what we run is antiquated. I'm still taking Allen either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 No argument that the front seven is more fluid than it's ever been, tia, but DCs still have a leaning... a "first love"... a preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 No argument that the front seven is more fluid than it's ever been, tia, but DCs still have a leaning... a "first love"... a preference. Preference is still nickel personnel which general includes 4 man fronts in either 33 or 42 looks. In which case, I go with the player that can handle multiple spots and subpackage roles. Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 '43' and '34' be damned. The idea of that being exclusively what we run is antiquated. I'm still taking Allen either way. I will say that the idea of having Nassib-Shelton-Allen-Ogbah in a 4 man front is pretty appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 As appealing as a 3-man fronted by Bryant - Shelton - Allen? Or a 4-man of Garrett - Shelton - Bryant - Ogbah? Throw in backer sets of Collins - Kirksey - Foster - Orchard or Collins - Foster - Kirksey? I think I'm sprouting wood... either way... although Orchard would be my weak link and I like Foster better paired at ILB than solo at MLB. Preference is still nickel personnel which general includes 4 man fronts in either 33 or 42 looks. In which case, I go with the player that can handle multiple spots and subpackage roles. Allen. That's one agreement towards my free pitcher. I'd rather slide an Allen in from my base than stand a Garrett up to make my base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 As a new fan of the Browns....you may be all willing to continue to live in quarterback hell. But I have been a fan since the early 60s....and I don't want to wait around while the Browns continue to flounder around with this QB issue. Unless you can give me a goddamn guarantee that a Jimmy Garropolo or AJ McCarron are the next coming of Brett Favre, I would rather take my chances of using the top commodity that any team can have: the #1 overall pick in the draft, on a QB. Not at all a new fan of the Browns, just not a crusty old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 lol... well you do get a little crusty von Zeit zu Zeit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 As appealing as a 3-man fronted by Bryant - Shelton - Allen? Or a 4-man of Garrett - Shelton - Bryant - Ogbah? Throw in backer sets of Collins - Kirksey - Foster - Orchard or Collins - Foster - Kirksey? I think I'm sprouting wood... either way... although Orchard would be my weak link and I like Foster better paired at ILB than solo at MLB. That's one agreement towards my free pitcher. I'd rather slide an Allen in from my base than stand a Garrett up to make my base. That pretty much sums up what I want to see, Allen if we are primarily 3-4 and Garrett if we are 4-3. And Foster @#12 if he is still there. That guy is the best Bama has had at the position in a long time and that says a lot. Of course he has also had the best damn DL in front of him I've seen there too, but nonetheless he is a ball seeking Kamikaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 That pretty much sums up what I want to see, Allen if we are primarily 3-4 and Garrett if we are 4-3. And Foster @#12 if he is still there. That guy is the best Bama has had at the position in a long time and that says a lot. Of course he has also had the best damn DL in front of him I've seen there too, but nonetheless he is a ball seeking Kamikaze. A Garrett or Allen then Foster first round would be a homerun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 A Garrett or Allen then Foster first round would be a homerun. Absolutely, if Foster makes it to #12 overall. I'm hoping Malik Hooker can make it to #12 overall; but I remember Eric Berry being drafted at #6 overall before we drafted Joe Haden at #7 overall. If we played in a more sound 34 defense that didn't have to compensate for the risk of zone blitzes with very disturbing/undisciplined zone coverages and transitions - LBer may not be as necessary as Horton's defense made it look especially if we hire a different DC. I think Safety is a huge weakness we have to address; and there should be some good ones on our doorstep early or at the top of round 2 if Hooker is already gone. Look at some Superbowl Champions from our division: Ed Reed and Pollyneedsahaircut were big play guys on those defenses. Before that, Carnell Lake made an easy transition from OLBer at UCLA to some Pro Bowls at Safety for Pittsburgh. Now compare them to what we have right now. Other Previous Superbowl Champions had: Earl Thomas & Kam Chancellor TJ Ward Rodneys Harrisons Darren Woodson Ronnie Lott Steve Atwater John Lynch Bob Sanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 True, Flugs, but all those Safeties had some pressure generating front sevens to play behind. And in some cases the Safeties joined in the QB-thumping fun. I don't mind a Hooker or Adams at #12 if they fall to us, but only if Foster is gone. #F2B&I/O ... or in English: Front to Back and Inside Out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 True, Flugs, but all those Safeties had some pressure generating front sevens to play behind. And in some cases the Safeties joined in the QB-thumping fun. I don't mind a Hooker or Adams at #12 if they fall to us, but only if Foster is gone. They sure did but I think the presence of Allen up front could really spark our ability to hurry the passer and stop the run. Understandable about Hooker or Adams at 12 only if Foster is gone. If we started off with a first round beginning with Allen and Foster/Hooker, I could dig us drafting Ohio State's Center (Pat Elfein) at the top of round 2. The alternative Center choice out of LSU is 6'7" tall leading me to worry about how well he bends in terms of how his leverage will hold up against shorter/squattier 330-370 pound DTs/NTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 one great throw does not make a #1 pick. He made a bunch of them Mik, his first TD pass was perfect. I still have the game on my DVR, and I'll give it another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 He made a bunch of them Mik, his first TD pass was perfect. I still have the game on my DVR, and I'll give it another look. Was it a progression read from the pocket or a pre-determined timing pattern thrown to an area of the field off a pre-specified drop back? Danny Kanell recently said about the Freshman QB at Texas that he hadn't seen a gorgeous deep ball like that in the Lone Star state since RG3. But, if you ask RG3 to read progressions - he's going to look he was the pinball wizard in a pocket The Who lyrics accurately described as "deaf, dumb and blind." Unfortunately, we've also learned that deep ball arm he had coming out of college has an expiration date of late October in a Great Lake Climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 There any actual merit to this front to back and inside out other than being more attractive than the alternative to an engineer/math guy's mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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