Babernakle Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 No qbs this year there all bums. If there going to take offense needs to be lineman, but with the talent on defense this year they should take Allen from Alabama and hooker from Ohio state with the first round picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Ive moved toward Allen as my #1, but would take Garrett too..... Then, give me Reuben or a top safety....Adams or Hooker would be just fine..... Or a premium CB would work too...... Just get some elite defensive talent....pllllllllllllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase! What's your take on how to fix the QB issue? I agree with the defensive strategy, especially early, but we're in deep shit when it comes to QB (STILL!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Take Allen over Garrett for our scheme, if you think Nassib or another end is legit. Defensive BPA at 12 From what I hear, in the Gregg Williams 4-3 you are going to have Nassib and Ogbah both playing the DE spot. And from all indications both Allen and Garrett would also be DEs in that system (and if taken would have to replace Nassib/Ogbah) So, who will be our LBs? Kirksey and Davis in the middle? We would have Collins if he resigns, but, again, from all reports, he is a far better MLB than OLB, no? That would give us Cam Johnson and Joe Schobert at OLB. Not the greatest scenario....which would force Collins back outside If they did get Garrett....would he pretty much have to be designated for an OLB slot, rather than DE? at 6'4" 270 he is DE size, not OLB size. Or, could the Browns take someone who is more naturally an OLB a bit later : Tim Williams, Takkarist McKinley, TJ Watt? And I say again, don't be surprised if the Browns shore up the DT slot with a high pick. Again, the 4-3 calls for 2 solid DTs. We have Shelton, and interimly Meder. A Caleb Brantley or Carlos Watkins could be on order for the Browns. And where does Desmond Bryant fit in? He too is listed at DE.....but can he play inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Right now, the Browns Front 7 Depth Chart looks something like this if a prototypical 4-3 scheme were applied: RDE Ogbah, X. Cooper, Dylan Wynn DT Shelton, Lawrence-Stample DT Meder, Gabe Wright LDE Nassib, Des Bryant, Paea ROLB Cam Johnson, Joe Schobert MLB Kirksey, Davis, Tank Carder, Dominque Alexander, Jame Burris LOLB Collins, Orchard How would you "fix" this with the draft. (One note: from what I see right here, we have what would be a talent variance with the proposed scheme: Kirksey/Davis/Collins all best in the middle.....but only 1 slot for the three of them. Keeping Collins outside helps....but is that his optimum spot?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babernakle Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 No qbs this year there all bums. If there going to take offense needs to be lineman, but with the talent on defense this year they should take Allen from Alabama and hooker from Ohio state with the first round picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 No qbs this year there all bums. If there going to take offense needs to be lineman, but with the talent on defense this year they should take Allen from Alabama and hooker from Ohio state with the first round picks Do you have Alzheimer's. You posted the exact same thing an hour earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babernakle Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 As far s the qb goes Kessler will do the job as long and he stays upright. Does enough to win or go get jimmy or cardell McCarron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Wouldn't Allen be a 4_3 DT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Wouldn't Allen be a 4_3 DT? He would still man the same spots in hortons defense. Except under Williams he'd primarily play 3tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 He would still man the same spots in hortons defense. Except under Williams he'd primarily play 3tech. OK, so, a 3tech lines up on the outside shoulder of a guard...between the OG and OT. In the 4-3 both DTs would be 3tech, right? A 5 tech would line up on the outside of the tackle....making him a DE. I assume then that a 1tech lines up in the gap between the OC and OG. That would be more nose tackle terrritory in a 3-4 no? Would a 4-3 DT never really line up at that spot? It seems that would leave a huge hole up the middle in normal circumstances. To be filled my the MLB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Where would our current personell (and/or our future draft picks...Garrett/Allen etc. if we go that route), fit in the above alignment? Assuming this is the base defense that Williams would run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Allen would be a DT and Shelton at NT I think. Nassib SDE and Ogbah WDE? Would Garrett be a SDE? The formation above is similar to what Michigan plays. Sometimes we can the WDE a Buck LB, but it's the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Allen would be a DT and Shelton at NT I think. In the terminology in the photo would DT be the "under tackle" Nassib SDE and Ogbah WDE? Would Garrett be a SDE? I don't see these terms used.... I see Open End, and Closed End (meaning on the side of the TE) Which is which? The formation above is similar to what Michigan plays. Sometimes we can the WDE a Buck LB, but it's the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Ive moved toward Allen as my #1, but would take Garrett too..... Then, give me Reuben or a top safety....Adams or Hooker would be just fine..... Or a premium CB would work too...... Just get some elite defensive talent....pllllllllllllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase! Couldn't give you only a half-point, so.... Welcome to Camp Allen! Now about Foster... What's your take on how to fix the QB issue? I agree with the defensive strategy, especially early, but we're in deep shit when it comes to QB (STILL!). It would not hurt to keep games in range of an average QB effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 For Allen's sake, he better hope that teams lose his Championship Game tape, or better yet, never see it... I watched the entire Championship game this year, and Allen was simply another dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 OK, so, a 3tech lines up on the outside shoulder of a guard...between the OG and OT. In the 4-3 both DTs would be 3tech, right? A 5 tech would line up on the outside of the tackle....making him a DE. I assume then that a 1tech lines up in the gap between the OC and OG. That would be more nose tackle terrritory in a 3-4 no? Would a 4-3 DT never really line up at that spot? It seems that would leave a huge hole up the middle in normal circumstances. To be filled my the MLB? Old school term was nose guard. NT evolved from the massive 2 gap heads up monsters. Alignment depends on call and responding to offensive structure. You can have a 5,3,1,5 a 5,1,1,5 a 9,3,3,5 etc etc. You can run an over playing heads up on the center, guard and tackle of you choose. Point being alignments are too much to cover in just one post. Allen would play primarily a 3tech, be it strong or weak side. Has the option of floating at the 5 and if you want to get whacky with it, even further on the interior. Just trying to pigeon hole things into saying 'X goes here, Y goes here' isn't accurate under modern day defensive schemes. With Coach Williams you'll get some interesting looks of front. I remember them playing a lot of 3 man against the Colts in the super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Where would our current personell (and/or our future draft picks...Garrett/Allen etc. if we go that route), fit in the above alignment? Assuming this is the base defense that Williams would run. If you insist on penciling people in just based on THAT pick against what would most likely be 21 personnel. Danny at the NT, Allen as the backside 3, Nassib weak end and Oby as strong side or 'closed'. Though you could see Allen as the strong side, oby as a backer and someone like Bryant as the weakside 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 I should clarify in most under calls, your SDE is a bigger guy. Easy example for most of you woild be Cam Hayward. 09-10 OSU ran a lot of under looks using him at that spot then we'd kick him around the formation on 2nd and 3rd down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Great stuff Tia. Can we expect anything different from Williams on covering a TE? Still Collins or can we send him at QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Allen would be a DT and Shelton at NT I think. In the terminology in the photo would DT be the "under tackle" Nassib SDE and Ogbah WDE? Would Garrett be a SDE? I don't see these terms used.... I see Open End, and Closed End (meaning on the side of the TE) Which is which? The formation above is similar to what Michigan plays. Sometimes we can the WDE a Buck LB, but it's the same thing. WDE would be the open end. More pass rusher, quicker. SDE would be the closest end. More run stop, stronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Great stuff Tia. Can we expect anything different from Williams on covering a TE? Still Collins or can we send him at QB? Up to coach and what he's Called for that personnel group, formation, etc etc. You'll probably get a good mix of both,id suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Allen would be a DT and Shelton at NT I think. In the terminology in the photo would DT be the "under tackle" Nassib SDE and Ogbah WDE? Would Garrett be a SDE? I don't see these terms used.... I see Open End, and Closed End (meaning on the side of the TE) Which is which? The formation above is similar to what Michigan plays. Sometimes we can the WDE a Buck LB, but it's the same thing. You really don't know who the SDE and WDE are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Old school term was nose guard. NT evolved from the massive 2 gap heads up monsters. Alignment depends on call and responding to offensive structure. You can have a 5,3,1,5 a 5,1,1,5 a 9,3,3,5 etc etc. You can run an over playing heads up on the center, guard and tackle of you choose. Point being alignments are too much to cover in just one post. Allen would play primarily a 3tech, be it strong or weak side. Has the option of floating at the 5 and if you want to get whacky with it, even further on the interior. Just trying to pigeon hole things into saying 'X goes here, Y goes here' isn't accurate under modern day defensive schemes. With Coach Williams you'll get some interesting looks of front. I remember them playing a lot of 3 man against the Colts in the super bowl. Sure, I understand that there could be a lot of variation in the alignment.. But I was just wondering who we would have manning the posts in the basic, classic structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 If you insist on penciling people in just based on THAT pick against what would most likely be 21 personnel. Danny at the NT, Allen as the backside 3, Nassib weak end and Oby as strong side or 'closed'. Though you could see Allen as the strong side, oby as a backer and someone like Bryant as the weakside 3. And what if Garrett were the pick? Where would he fit in? That open(weak) end DE? Again, everything I hear about him is that he is really a true DE, not an OLB. Also, question: In this classic 4-3 setup, there is one MLB. Our talent at the LB spot has us with 3 good MLBs: Kirksey, Davis, Collins. I know Collins has been playing outside, but most of what I hear is that his optimal position is inside. What do we do with 3 MLBs in a prototypical 4-3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 You really don't know who the SDE and WDE are? I know that like every team has a different terminolgy for these players. I was asking about the terminology in the above diagram, which is different from what was stated here. In fact, I have seen, just in this thread, the same positions being called 3 different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Strongside... Weakside... Very old, simple terms for traditionally balanced lines with the TE determining which side is "strong" by adding his body to it "tight" to one OT or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Strongside... Weakside... Very old, simple terms for traditionally balanced lines with the TE determining which side is "strong" by adding his body to it "tight" to one OT or the other. Sure, but then you have the "closed end/open end" terminology. Then the Sam/Will/Mike. then you basic Left End, Right End, Left Outside LB, Right Outside LB....and who knows how many other terms. I mean, the Stronside Backer/End plays on the side that the TE is on. But a TE can switch sides on every play. Or go in motion. Is he at one instance the Strongside End and in the next instance the weakside end? If a guy always plays the left or the right, again he could be SDE or WDE on different plays. And what about where no TE is used? Five reciever sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 You'll have different terms for different coaches and players. In the end its almost the exact same thing all the time. Garrett would play open/weak end and some bscker if called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 There being a lot of different terms does not excuse not knowing what S/WDE means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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