Schefter: Browns still split between taking Garrett and Trubisky with #1 pick

[domcucch1994]

 

I know enough Gip.

I know that many experts feel that this draft class is heavy on defense, but lacking in QBs.

I know that if we take another QB and he fails, like Weeden, Manziel, and Quinn, it is going to be another regime change... again.

A. Those experts are NOT the ones doing the drafting for the Cleveland Browns. the Browns experts think they are more expert than any other experts.

B. You still have to take a Risk......be it at QB or at DE. The one guy is JUST as big a risk at the other guy. If you don't want to take a risk, take a seat on the couch.

 

The problem with Cleveland is, they don't give their QBs a legitimate shot.

Maybe to a point...but, the fact is, all these past Browns QBs didn't exactly go anywhere and light it up when they did get shots, now did they?

Kessler can be a solid QB. Why draft a guy #1 who is only 1 inch taller, and has less college experience?

Because he has a ton more talent. Much better arm, legs, quicker release, etc. etc.

Brandon Weeden had a lot more height and experience than either of him...that didn't help him, now did it?

 

It would be stupid to take Mitch @ 1. 31st ranked defense, 26 qb sacks. That is putrid.

 

But nooooo.. let's reach for Mitch @ 1. He is going to magically fix everything!

They will win MORE with a franchise QB than they will with a DE. You think that a DE will magically fix things? that is ignorance.

 

Cleveland needs to take off the blinders and draft the best player @ 1.

And that best player may in fact be the QB. You just never think about that, do you.

 

 

Garrett will at least strike some fear into the opposing defenses..

Not as a rookie, I doubt it. And who knows if he ever does.

 

How can you even argue that Garrett couldn't beat out Carl Nassib? Garrett is head-and-shoulders above Nassib..

Him and Ogbah would be a nasty duo along the front 7.

Again, you are making asshole assumptions about a player that you really have no clue about how he will perform. That is as big an asshole assumption as an assumption I would make that MT will be the next Tom Brady.

We don't know about either. Garrett could be Barky Mingo 2.0 as easily as MT could be a washup.

 

No one is a lock. Whether they are drafted #1 or #101. They all need to earn their stripes.

 

Bark Mingo was a bust from the get go. He didn't really have the size to handle quality olineman in the NFL. Garrett at least has the intangibles..

 

But you are right.. He could not pan out.. He could very easily be the next Courtney Brown.

 

Im just not sure I see the potential for bust as high in MG, as I do in MT.

 

Hell with all of the picks we have we could trade up and nab MT, if Cleveland feels so strongly about him, but doesn't want to pass up a potentially great DE..

 

Jets and Niners are teams that could be interested in trading with us on draft day..

[hoorta]

He may be more talented than Sanchez ever is/was. But one year of college ball and then going to the game's highest level is not going to be an easy transition.

Taking Trubs @ 1 would be a huuuge reach!

 

And if you have looked at our history of recent 1st round QBs we've drafted, the track record isn't very good... Weeden, Quinn, Manziel. All fails.

Doesn't necessarily mean Trubisky will fail, but you have to take this into consideration..

 

Kessler was good, not great, but good. 92 QBR with a makeshift o-line and little help from his receivers outside of TP.

IF Trubisky is taken #1, the pressure is enormous to play him right away.

Let's say Kess beats out Trubs in training camp, then what? Sit him until an injury happens or for the whole year and let him watch?

Then we would have wasted our first overall pick for the 2017 season. Garrett would for-sure be a starter on our D. There is no guarantee Mitch could even beat out Kessler in camp.

 

Look at Alex Smith in KC. Doesn't have a cannon for an arm but is accurate and limits mistakes. Kessler can be our Alex Smith, if we wanna go that route..

 

Knowing Cleveland and knowing Haslam, we will be taking a QB in the 1st..

However that would be a huge mistake. There are other areas of need that we can fill in this draft.

 

Trubisky will be there @ 12. SF is going to have a helluva time passing up on Solomon Thomas or Jamal Adams @ 2..

 

Weedeen, Quinn and Manziel were fails because they ALL had glaring flaws- the only knocks on Mitch are he only played one year and has some minor footwork issues. As Gip has said- poor drafting. We did OK in 2007 taking Joe Thomas ahead of Quinn, but to take yet another trip down memory lane in 2012- we took Trent Richardson instead of Luke Keuchly or Dontari Poe, and Donta Hightower was still there when we drafted Wee-Done. There's the core of our D- IF we had drafted correctly. Another epic fail in 2014 with Gilbert and Manziel. Could have been any of the following instead- enough to make you want to puke. Kalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Odell Beckham, Ryan Shazier, Jason Verrett, Derek Carr.

 

We haven't drafted a quarterback high since Tim Couch in 1999, and gone bargain shopping instead, if you want to talk about fail following that method. That the Browns are even talking about drafting a a qb, and brought in Ostrich (maybe secondary to the draft pick they got) should tell you they're not 100% sold on Kessler- short of being a short term solution.

 

This jives with what was being said earlier as well ("we don't believe our QB will be available at 12"). I don't doubt the validity of this rumor.

 

And... I'd officially be happy with either pick.

 

It's well known I started the Trubisky Train, and I'm still on it to a certain extent. Caught Mitch again last night on Gruden's QB camp. He's got everything I want to see in a QB, accuracy, quick release, decent arm, good mobility & pocket awareness. FWIW, Gruden broke down (in great detail and film) both of Mitch's big interceptions against Stanford. An NFL defense level drop a DL into coverage with a few other tricks- the first time Trubs had seen it. Learning experience, and you can bet he'll learn from that- he was taking notes.

 

BTW MMB, assuming we take Garrett @ #1 (I'm not against it) and Trubs somehow gets past the 49ers and Bears, and assuming we want him, we're going to have to do a deal with the Titans to get ahead of the Jets, they've made no secret of their love for Mitch. One link to follow, but a quick Google search will probably dig up a dozen others. Our #12, giving Tennessee back their #52, and one of our seconds in 2018 might be enough. Man, I do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-hot-north-carolina-mitch-trubisky-article-1.2910818

[domcucch1994]

How much, Gip, do you think it would take to trade up from #12 to lets say. 2 or 6?

A 1st next year? Two 2nd rounders this year? Two second rounders next year?

 

I would be happy with Garrett @ 1, and trading with SF to take MT, IF they are 100% sure he is "the guy"

 

SF receives our #12, #52 and our 1st next year

We receive the #2 pick.

[TexasAg1969]

It's going to be a very interesting draft night. Snooze and you lose.

 

And just to add more smoke and mirrors.https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

[LondonBrown]

It's going to be a very interesting draft night. Snooze and you lose.

 

And just to add more smoke and mirrors.https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

I would be angry if Im a Jets fan and they do this, they need to trade down not up!

[Tour2ma]

NYJ still is working under the delusion that they are only a QB away.

 

And just to add more smoke and mirrors.https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

 

That fits with one of the hottest rumors going... that SF is looking to trade down multiple times and accumulate picks.

 

With both Shanny and Lynch on fresh, 6-year deals they are in no need of shortcuts... just a bunch of really good prospects.

 

 

EDIT: Holy shit... PFF has Adams falling to us at 12? Color me ecstatic...

[Tour2ma]

Weedeen, Quinn and Manziel were fails because they ALL had glaring flaws- the only knocks on Mitch are he only played one year and has some minor footwork issues.

 

It's well known I started the Trubisky Train, and I'm still on it to a certain extent.

 

OK... I'll play. What was Wheezy's glaring flaw? Brady-kins'?

 

I'll spot you Manziel... after all you likely have other things to do today.

 

Will also spot you that none could read a Defense when they were drafted... although I think Brady Q was close. Kind of a determinative factor and a skill Trubs hasn't demonstrated to any extent I've seen. Also one that comes with "experience"...

 

 

When did Gip steal your train?

[RoyceRolls]

Weeden didn't make progressions or read defenses, he simply played catch with the best receiver in the country. If my memory serves me, the big 12 didn't have a single top 80 defense that year while the big ten had 7 in the top 40, which was part of my reasoning for taking either Wilson or Cousins late as opposed to reaching for Weeden or Tannehill. 2012 was they year to draft 1 overall.

[The Gipper]

No one is a lock. Whether they are drafted #1 or #101. They all need to earn their stripes.

 

Bark Mingo was a bust from the get go. He didn't really have the size to handle quality olineman in the NFL. Garrett at least has the intangibles..

 

But you are right.. He could not pan out.. He could very easily be the next Courtney Brown.

 

Im just not sure I see the potential for bust as high in MG, as I do in MT.

 

Hell with all of the picks we have we could trade up and nab MT, if Cleveland feels so strongly about him, but doesn't want to pass up a potentially great DE..

 

Jets and Niners are teams that could be interested in trading with us on draft day..

I am on board with that. Get both of them. Trade up. Though, I don't know about the Jets and 49ers. Jets, it has been reported, are in line to want a QB, and MT is top of their list. That is why in another thread I talked about moving up from 12 to 5 with the Tits. Though...I have seen some reports that both the Niners and Bears may still be in the QB market, even with recent signings.

Moving from 12 to 2 with SF? A. That presumes that SF doesn't want a QB there, and B....WTF would it take to do that? A lot I suspect.

[The Gipper]

How much, Gip, do you think it would take to trade up from #12 to lets say. 2 or 6?

A 1st next year? Two 2nd rounders this year? Two second rounders next year?

 

I would be happy with Garrett @ 1, and trading with SF to take MT, IF they are 100% sure he is "the guy"

 

SF receives our #12, #52 and our 1st next year

We receive the #2 pick.

I outlined this on another thread. To move up to #5, under the Jimmy Johnson chart, we would have to give up #52 plus a lower pick. Under the Harvard chart, a #4-5 should do it.

Of course, that is assuming the trade partner wants to stick strictly with those charts, which they likely sure as hell would not want to do. They would want a premium.

To go from #12 to #2?

I don't know per the charts..but what you say could certainly be the Niners asking price.

[The Gipper]

It's going to be a very interesting draft night. Snooze and you lose.

 

And just to add more smoke and mirrors.https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mock-draft-5-0-jets-trade-up-to-take-a-qb/

Jets trade from #6 to #2 to get MT? Wouldn't discount the possibility.

[The Gipper]

I would be angry if Im a Jets fan and they do this, they need to trade down not up!

Why?

[The Gipper]

 

OK... I'll play. What was Wheezy's glaring flaw? Brady-kins'?

 

I'll spot you Manziel... after all you likely have other things to do today.

 

Will also spot you that none could read a Defense when they were drafted... although I think Brady Q was close. Kind of a determinative factor and a skill Trubs hasn't demonstrated to any extent I've seen. Also one that comes with "experience"...

 

 

When did Gip steal your train?

And you thought I was the engineer when I was only the conductor.

 

All aboard?

[LondonBrown]

Why?

They're an old team with needs all over the roster, giving up their future draft picks now would be stupid

[The Gipper]

They're an old team with needs all over the roster, giving up their future draft picks now would be stupid

In other words, they should be thinking like the Browns did last year. I get it.

 

Actually, IMO, despite only winning 1 game last year, the Browns are in better shape than the Jets.

[LondonBrown]

Actually, IMO, despite only winning 1 game last year, the Browns are in better shape than the Jets.

And I would agree with that. I don't see Bowles lasting much longer, I thought he may have gone this off season as part of the rebuild.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

EDIT: Holy shit... PFF has Adams falling to us at 12? Color me ecstatic...

This happens and the Browns take Garret first, the Browns walk away with the two best players in this draft.

[hoorta]

Weeden didn't make progressions or read defenses, he simply played catch with the best receiver in the country. If my memory serves me, the big 12 didn't have a single top 80 defense that year while the big ten had 7 in the top 40, which was part of my reasoning for taking either Wilson or Cousins late as opposed to reaching for Weeden or Tannehill. 2012 was they year to draft 1 overall.

 

I'll just ditto what you said about Wheezy for Tour- besides being near geriatric. Quinn? Not accurate. Notre Dame curse.

[Tour2ma]

Weeden didn't make progressions or read defenses, he simply played catch with the best receiver in the country. If my memory serves me, the big 12 didn't have a single top 80 defense that year while the big ten had 7 in the top 40, which was part of my reasoning for taking either Wilson or Cousins late as opposed to reaching for Weeden or Tannehill. 2012 was they year to draft 1 overall.

 

Agree on the D -reading, but not sure about the progressions bit.

 

And you thought I was the engineer when I was only the conductor.

 

Trust me... I'd never think you were an Engineer... a lawyer, yes, but never an Engineer.

 

I know because I are an engineer...

 

I'll just ditto what you said about Wheezy for Tour- besides being near geriatric. Quinn? Not accurate. Notre Dame curse.

 

Well that's not fair... Trubs hasn't shown he can read a D either...

 

BTW... the correct answer for Wheezy was "slow release".

[hoorta]

I am on board with that. Get both of them. Trade up. Though, I don't know about the Jets and 49ers. Jets, it has been reported, are in line to want a QB, and MT is top of their list. That is why in another thread I talked about moving up from 12 to 5 with the Tits. Though...I have seen some reports that both the Niners and Bears may still be in the QB market, even with recent signings.

Moving from 12 to 2 with SF? A. That presumes that SF doesn't want a QB there, and B....WTF would it take to do that? A lot I suspect.

 

I opined that Gip in a previous thread. Yikes, and here- according to the JJ chart, is what it would take for the Browns to jump up to #2 overall. A ton is right. Our #12 & #52 this year, and our first round and one of the seconds in 2018. Shades of the Goff\ Wentz trade ups last year. Doable? Certainly. Likely? About a million to one against.

 

Much less costly for the Jets to make the jump. I'll disagree with PFF though the 49ers would just take their #6 and a second rounder.

 

Annndddd.... if Mitch gets to #5, I have the Titans on speed dial. The draft value chart says just our #52 gets it done to move there. Of course, the Jets would again be in a better position, as the Titans would only be moving down one spot.

[Tour2ma]

LOL... Meanwhile back at "Point / Counterpoint"... Gip, you ignorant slut...

The Browns would be insane to take Mitchell Trubisky over Myles Garrett at No. 1

Cameron DaSilva @camdasilva Apr 12, 2017 at 1:25p ET

For more than a month, it seemed like Myles Garrett was a lock to go first overall. At the NFL Combine, he performed like an athletic freak, and then improved on those numbers at his pro day.

Everything was lining up for him to be the unquestioned No. 1 pick, but things may be changing. Multiple reports surfaced on Wednesday suggesting the Cleveland Browns are torn on what to do with the top pick. No, this is not a joke. The Browns are actually considering passing on a blue-chip defensive end in favor of, wait for it, a quarterback.

This isn’t the first time the Browns have been linked to a player besides Garrett, either. Earlier this week, it was reported that Leonard Fournette was in consideration for the top overall pick. A running back, in today’s NFL, with the first pick in the draft.

However, if Cleveland were to actually pass on Garrett for Mitchell Trubisky, it would likely go down as one of the worst selections in NFL history. It’s not about how bad Trubisky is – he could turn out to be a nice quarterback. It’s about Garrett being head-and-shoulders above every other player in this class.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-mitchell-trubisky-myles-garrett-nfl-draft-first-pick-overall-041217

[gumby73]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHJuy_pCKk

 

Bowles .

Bowles? After reading this, now I know why Tunsil wore a mask,with dope even with his in-laws ..Tell'em again Von Miller. Schefter's only pad experience comes with a #2 Pencil

 

All aboard?

now figure a way above Tennessee to go get Adams or Hooker.Then am blowing the Amtrak whistle back home

[hoorta]

 

Agree on the D -reading, but not sure about the progressions bit.

 

Trust me... I'd never think you were an Engineer... a lawyer, yes, but never an Engineer.

 

I know because I are an engineer...

 

Well that's not fair... Trubs hasn't shown he can read a D either...

 

BTW... the correct answer for Wheezy was "slow release".

 

OK, I'll claim Zen enlightenment on all of the three Tour. None of 'em passed my eye test, though Wee-done probably came closest. I called "bum" before we drafted any of them. Same way I feel about Mitch- in an opposite way.....

 

BTW, I'm not necessarily saying take Mitch over Garrett either. Just greedy, and I want both of them on the Browns. Reluctantly, if it's one or the other, I take Garrett. And should Myles bust, it will be a bust of historic proportions, above the level of Jamarcus Russell or Ki-Jana Carter. SO like the Browns.

[Tour2ma]

Two more... and I did not doctor the title...

The Browns Can't Possibly Fuck This Up...Right?

http://deadspin.com/the-browns-cant-possibly-fuck-this-up-right-1794264774

and one more... albeit a little less graphic...

NFL Draft: Browns need to stick with Myles Garrett at No. 1

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-browns-rumors-picks-mock-projection-myles-garrett-trubisky-preview-2017/w3krm29oqdvbzhihnrvjgfh7

[calfoxwc]

If the Browns go with Trubisky at one, a lot of us might be laughing ourselves into the floor, but...

 

I will know they made the right decision. It's easier to find pass rush help later, than to find a starting

qb later.

 

But I think they will take Garrett, even though he says he doesn't want to play in the NFL a long time.....

[RoyceRolls]

The Browns have drafted 6 1st round busts in the past five years, what's one more?

[blitzz2]

MG and JA, Hell, how can you go wrong? Could possibly get Webb or Mahones at top of 2nd? or just keep going with BPA and wait till next year on a QB.

[calfoxwc]

Garrett is not Gerard Warren...

 

draft him at #1. Can't see the Browns staying at #1 and doing anything else.

 

Not for one second.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_browns_flop_gerard_w.html

[Orion]

In this thread I've seen reports of us being linked to a pass rusher, a QB and a RB with the #1 pick.

 

.....sounds exactly like a team trying entice a team that covets one of those players to pick up the phone and call.

 

---

The #1 overall pick - In order for a player that is NOT a QB to be the 1st player chosen he has to be WAAaaaay better than any of the QB's.

 

If you don't have a good QB then you're going to have opponents fans in your stadium towards the end of seasons. And there ain't a single pass rusher in the entire draft that will be able to throw TD passes for you.

 

The Quarterback is ESSENTIAL. Everything else is a luxury.

 

So, the vast majority of the 'experts' seem to think that the pass rusher is just too much better than any of the QB's for ANY team to pass up. Maybe so. But this thread's existence is proof of just how valuable the QB position is. Even in a draft where the defensive player is hands down the best player in the draft and there isn't a QB that comes Close to him..........the QB STILL enters into the thinking.

[Frenchie]

I don't believe anything at this time of the year (related to the NFL Draft). I heard a radio talk-show discuss rumors of trading down with the Broncos for two hours until they found out that the rumor was trading-up with the Broncos.

 

One thing I do know is that Sashi is in charge and he is not stupid. There are 4 QB's in this draft and while they all have potential, none are ready, and the +\- are about even. I think they take a premier player like Garrett, at #1, then see how the board plays out at 12. If someone they like starts to fall, they may move up. If not, they will compare key players and the remaining QB's at 12. If someone like Howard is there, they take him. Then try to work back into the first round to take their QB. If Key players are gone at 12, they will take the QB at 12 and stick to their two second rounders.