Schefter: Browns still split between taking Garrett and Trubisky with #1 pick

[gumby73]

 

The tools are there, .. and I definitely do not like the price of those odds.

How's the price around #6 To #12 over a Howard or Foster maybe?? I see you favor Watson over Mitch? is that with AJ McCarron gloves on or off in cold games? Edit--(I did find a Watson game with Elements in ND in 2015..He's not as awful as I once thought in it)

[Mudfly]

I see you favor Watson over Mitch?

A lot of us do......

 

Tho....I still favor impact defensive players over both......

[Mudfly]

Whats funny is that I posted this exact same thread earlier in the week....except the rumor was Watson instead of Trubs....

 

So....lots of buzz about the Browns making poor choices......again....

 

Not matter how truthful(or not).....clearly the rest of the world doesnt trust them to do the right(smart) thing....

 

No brainer VS no brains......which will it be???

[RoyceRolls]

Drafting Watson after cutting RG3 is the football equivalent of not trusting a fart and then shitting your pants on purpose.

[Mudfly]

Drafting Watson after cutting RG3 is the football equivalent of. It trusting a fart and then shitting your pants on purpose.

Yeah...but whats a little more shit matter, when you already have a full load......???

[The Gipper]

Whats funny is that I posted this exact same thread earlier in the week....except the rumor was Watson instead of Trubs....

 

So....lots of buzz about the Browns making poor choices......again....

 

Not matter how truthful(or not).....clearly the rest of the world doesnt trust them to do the right(smart) thing....

 

No brainer VS no brains......which will it be???

Again, "poor choices" are only identified through the test of time. All these first round busts the Browns have had over the years did not feel like poor choices at the time they were made. For the most part, we felt good about these choices. I guess we could go back in time and review the threads about the selections of Quinn/JMZ/Weeden/TR/Gilbert/Mingo etc. etc. etc. A lot of optimism I suspect.

So...just remember, time is the test.

The Eagles fan booed their "poor choice" of Donovan McNabb.

It didn't turn out to such a poor choice.

We thought we had gotten JBII when Trent Richardson knocked that helmet of the Eagles defender's head in his first game in the league. Turns out that was the highlight of his career.

[Mudfly]

All these first round busts the Browns have had over the years did not feel like poor choices at the time they were made.

 

I guess we could go back in time and review the threads about the selections\

 

So...just remember, time is the test.

 

 

 

Ok....sounds good....

 

Please go back and read my comments on last years draft......so you can remember who said what.....

[hoorta]

 

He couldn't even hit his open receivers at the end of the rivalry game with NC St. A far cry from what we saw against what was considered to be an unbeatable BAMA defense. Sorry, he's a choker.

 

Bama never saw that many illegal picks either. One game college doesn't make a NFL career. Yeah, he had a nice game- would your opinion be any different if Clemson had lost (as they should have).

 

 

That's why I compared him to Romo who often did the exact same thing only to falter in the stretch when it really counted. Never denied he wasn't a good player, just don't see him as a closer.

 

Right now Ag, I see only around a 50% chance at best Mitch is going to be on the Browns. Unless the Browns do a trade up. If the Jets jump up to #2, it's over- there will be zero doubt who they're taking. I just can't see the Browns doing a deal with the 49ers- way too costly. But if he's still on the Board with the Titans picking- it could get interesting.

 

Drafting Watson after cutting RG3 is the football equivalent of. It trusting a fart and then shitting your pants on purpose.

 

There's some of us that share that opinion. and it's not because of skin color either. I'm as much against Watson as I was about Manziel. And if you've hung around this board long enough you know my opinion about Manziel.

[Flugel]

Drafting Watson after cutting RG3 is the football equivalent of. It trusting a fart and then shitting your pants on purpose.

 

LMAO! Why fart and waste it when you can burp and taste it?

 

That said, I always find myself sticking up for Watson even if it opens me up for future ballbusting later.

 

Here's my order of favorite QB prospects (none of which I want at #1, #12 or trade up from #12):

 

Mitch L Trubisky

Watson (very close 2nd IMO)

Mahomes

Dobbs

Webb

Peterman

[Tour2ma]

All of us felt good about our #1's at the time? Manziel felt good? Wheezy felt good? Passing on Khalil Mack felt good?

 

Obviously I do not know what feeling good is like.... Are my parents to blame?

 

How's the price around #6 To #12 over a Howard or Foster maybe?? I see you favor Watson over Mitch? is that with AJ McCarron gloves on or off in cold games? Edit--(I did find a Watson game with Elements in ND in 2015..He's not as awful as I once thought in it)

 

Nah... no AJ needed. Watson did it on his own... better odds.

 

I love the price of all those on my Big Board at 12... or they wouldn't be there.

 

If, in part, you are asking if I'd move up as high as 6 to go get one? My answer is, no... because one or more will fall to me at 12...

• There are 10 picks between 1 and 12. I like 8 prospects at 12... and would be happy with any of them.
• I think at least three prospects out of those ten taken #2 thru 11 will come from the QB/RB/WR pool.
• Therefore at least one falls to me.

#QED

 

Plus... I like a lot of the talent I see with the pick(s) with which I'd have to part to move up.

 

#LetTheDraftCome2Us

[RoyceRolls]

 

 

 

 

There's some of us that share that opinion. and it's not because of skin color either. I'm as much against Watson as I was about Manziel. And if you've hung around this board long enough you know my opinion about Manziel.

I agree, I didn't like manziel for the same reason I don't like Watson; under sized QBs who run too much aren't long for the NFL. Watson may be bigger than manziel, but not big enough for how dependent his game is on running the ball. Furthermore with his accuracy/ velocity issues, Watson will be a perennial 20+ INT guy at the next level provided he's healthy enough to play full seasons.

[medicineman]

If Hue trades the first pick to get Cousions or does anything to not get Miles then he mite as well just quit and move out of the Land

[hoorta]

All of us felt good about our #1's at the time? Manziel felt good? Wheezy felt good? Passing on Khalil Mack felt good?

 

Obviously I do not know what feeling good is like.... Are my parents to blame?

 

 

Nah... no AJ needed. Watson did it on his own... better odds.

 

Plus... I like a lot of the talent I see with the pick(s) with which I'd have to part to move up.

 

#LetTheDraftCome2Us

 

that's the problem Tour- we need a draft we can feel good about. those guys you just mentioned were Maalox Moments.....

[gumby73]

What they SHOULD DO.................

 

Trubisky at #1

Mike Williams #12

 

Trade Joe Thomas and the #33, move up and try to snag Takkarist McKinley

 

Replace Thomas at 52 or 65.

^^Hey the old nag(insert Walter Mathau here) did get in the gate before the crab shooting begins..And down the stretch She comes!!

[Mudfly]

When your team needs EVERYTHING......the only thing dumber than picking a WR in the first....would be to do it 2 years in a row....

[Flugel]

When your team needs EVERYTHING......the only thing dumber than picking a WR in the first....would be to do it 2 years in a row....

 

No, believing in Josh Gordon and Justin Gilbert for 2 years in a row was a lot dumber.

[Mudfly]

 

No, believing in Josh Gordon and Justin Gilbert for 2 years in a row was a lot dumber.

Well, touche on that......at least Ive always owned up to it and presented a good argument ....

 

But...."believing in them" is your words, not mine......Ive never had faith they would do well....just hope

 

And....Id add.....Ive only defended their talent....but never their minds, dedication or determination.....(but folks here never comprehend the whole argument and ALWAYS boil it down to simple simple basics....)

 

Folks cant seem to separate the words and decipher the whole picture...

 

And....YES....drafting a WR in the first(this year) would be amazingly stupid....almost as dumb as drafting 4 or 5 of them in the same year....and even dumber, if done 1 year after drafting 4-5 of them and immediately after signing one as a FA....

 

So...in less than 1 year.....we draft one in the first....then 4 more....then sign one(thats 6).....and still we need to draft one in the first????.....are you high again?

[miktoxic]

i said this prob 8 games into the college season and in one of the first qb prospect threads this year on the forum...... i like the kaaya kid coming out of miami. yea he's undersized muscle-wise but will grow into that.

 

he was ranked #1 pro-style QB in last year's preseason BR rankings:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2638430-power-ranking-college-footballs-best-2016-pro-style-quarterbacks

 

very smart kid. could be had prob 3rd round.

[Flugel]

Well, touche on that......at least Ive always owned up to it and presented a good argument ....

 

But...."believing in them" is your words, not mine......Ive never had faith they would do well....just hope

 

And....Id add.....Ive only defended their talent....but never their minds, dedication or determination.....(but folks here never comprehend the whole argument and ALWAYS boil it down to simple simple basics....)

 

Folks cant seem to separate the words and decipher the whole picture...

 

And....YES....drafting a WR in the first(this year) would be amazingly stupid....almost as dumb as drafting 4 or 5 of them in the same year....and even dumber, if done 1 year after drafting 4-5 of them and immediately after signing one as a FA....

 

So...in less than 1 year.....we draft one in the first....then 4 more....then sign one(thats 6).....and still we need to draft one on the first?>.....are you high again?

 

FWIW, I wasn't intending to put you on trial for either knucklehead and I agree with your points about them. Well done!

 

Maybe it's just me - but your philosophy, or the consistency of applying it, is confusing me. Last I read, you were unhappy with every WR on this roster. Now you are arguing nothing would be dumber than to consider a pick of the litter at WR at #12 overall because we drafted WRs last year (and one of them was in round 1). Sticking with that very same logic, why do you want Myles Garrett at #1 if 2 of our top 3 draft picks last year were edge rushers? IMO, we still need to get much better at both positions so if there's a pick of the litter for each on our door step at #1 and #12 I don't mind us snagging the best pass rusher and WR.

 

If we have the right GM, he's going to improve in his soph season because he evaluated what went wrong as a rookie. Some scouts inherited from a previous regime were fired for scouts that met the criteria of the new management. Better FA choices were made on the offensive line so it looks like some learning has taken place. Last but not least, drafts cannot be fully evaluated until 3 years because emergence rates of draftees/players vary due to surrounding talent, experience, ability to learn and injuries/health.

[Mudfly]

 

FWIW, I wasn't intending to put you on trial for either knucklehead and I agree with your points about them. Well done!

 

Well, you were, thats why you said it....but no matter....Ive always been willing to admit when Im wrong and have never claimed to always being right....I always try to say it like I see it...period...

 

Folks just dont like to hear some of it....

 

Maybe it's just me - but your philosophy, or the consistency of applying it, is confusing me.

 

My philosophy?.....Im not even sure what that is.....

 

Last I read, you were unhappy with every WR on this roster.

 

I was?.....Last I posted, I was rating what Ive seen so far.....which is very little. So, while you'd like to say I think they all suck or will be busts.....the truth is that Ive only said they have yet to show anything special...

 

Now you are arguing nothing would be dumber than to consider a pick of the litter at WR at #12 overall because we drafted WRs last year (and one of them was in round 1).

 

Well....for starters...my "philosophy" on WR is that they are plentiful and I prefer not to draft em high, unless they are very very special.....thats been discussed here many many times before and I adhere to trying to tap what I consider to be the harder to fill / more important positions at the top....Edge/QB/CB/OT/etc.....so, for me, it will be a rare day that Im excited about a WR early.....and last year?....passing on Bosa and ending up with Colemen literally broke my heart....

 

And...in terms of us drafting one high this year?.....it's some type of indictment somewhere.....either they screwed the pooch last year or, if they scored, then they are screwing up by drafting a WR high, when there is no need....

 

Before drafting more....I think they need to play the ones they drafted(and signed) and see what they have before burning another high first round pick........I just hope they look better this year, than they did last year.....

 

Sticking with that very same logic, why do you want Myles Garrett at #1 if 2 of our top 3 draft picks last year were edge rushers?

 

Thats easy....Last year?....we passed on a great DE and ended up with an average WR.......you think I want to do THAT again???!!!

 

IMO, we still need to get much better at both positions

 

We sure do.....even though it was our top focus last year....mind numbing, eh?

 

so if there's a pick of the litter for each on our door step at #1 and #12 I don't mind us snagging the best pass rusher and WR.

 

Im with BPA.....but tend to use groups, as opposed to ranking players in a line.....and once Im looking at a group, then I go need.....and that will disqualify WR at #12 for me....

 

If we have the right GM, he's going to improve in his soph season because he evaluated what went wrong as a rookie.

 

As long as he sees(and understands) what went wrong.....that is key

 

Some scouts inherited from a previous regime were fired for scouts that met the criteria of the new management.

 

As has been the case with every single regime we've had through our turnstile....

 

Better FA choices were made on the offensive line so it looks like some learning has taken place.

 

Cmon....they signed 2 guys.....that barely gets them back to where they were 2 years ago.....yes, a positive step over last years debacle.... but the Browns are still rated as the "worst" FA class in the league......(2 years in a row now)...thats nothing to brag about...

 

Last but not least, drafts cannot be fully evaluated until 3 years because emergence rates of draftees/players vary due to surrounding talent, experience, ability to learn and injuries/health.

 

Good thing I havent fully evaluated it then.....

 

We ALL grade as it goes.....problem being when someone says..."To this point, this draft has been disappointing".....someone else always turns it into "The Browns draft sucks and all these players suck and none will ever be good"....

 

Yep....thats pretty much how it goes....

 

You know Fluges...it would been nice...for ONCE....to draft a guy who shows up on day one and just kills it!.(happens every year)(with guys we passed on too).....instead I sit here reading pafge after page of spinning tales about injuries, schemes and lack of experience that prevent them from killing it(like they will someday)(if I could only just see it and wait a minute)....

 

Well Im waiting......(for our FO to nail a draft).....and to stop continually passing on great players and ignoring needs.....

[MLD Woody]

Garrett

Defensive BPA

Trade back into the first, why the hell not? We have plenty of ammo

[hoorta]

In reply to Mud- yup, outside of Pryor- our WRs showed about nothing. Can they improve? We had better hope so. Not buying the constant QB carousel. Coleman was hurt? Sure, but let's project his stats over a 16 game season (he played in 10 games). 660 yards, and 5 TDs. Not exactly Odell Beckham level- which is what you'd expect out of a 1st round wr.

 

As DePo said "we're not any smarter than anyone else". Well- DUH. If there's safety in numbers, hoping Higgins, or the other WRs you drafted 4th round or lower are going to turn into the next Antonio Brown, I'd say FAIL.

 

So, I'm with you- if the Browns draft another WR (or TE) high this draft- it's all but an admission they seriously screwed up last year.

[Flugel]

In reply to Mud- yup, outside of Pryor- our WRs showed about nothing. Can they improve? We had better hope so. Not buying the constant QB carousel. Coleman was hurt? Sure, but let's project his stats over a 16 game season (he played in 10 games). 660 yards, and 5 TDs. Not exactly Odell Beckham level- which is what you'd expect out of a 1st round wr.

 

As DePo said "we're not any smarter than anyone else". Well- DUH. If there's safety in numbers, hoping Higgins, or the other WRs you drafted 4th round or lower are going to turn into the next Antonio Brown, I'd say FAIL.

 

So, I'm with you- if the Browns draft another WR (or TE) high this draft- it's all but an admission they seriously screwed up last year.

 

Hoorta, I agree with some of this. IMO, a necessary part of improvement involves honest self evaluation from the FO. We've had previous egos in the FO that never admitted mistakes so we stayed parked at suck. Another part of this is to have the patience in what you have drafted to withstand the growing pains. The last part is to remain cognizant of what the percentage is of draft picks that actually pan out so the FO knows how long it should remain patient on the development process.

 

Since you brought up Antonio Brown - here's what his rookie year looked like:

2010 9 Games 16 Rec 167 Yards 10.4 YPC 0 TDs

Not exactly projecting the best WR in the game immediately.

 

I think Higgins can become a good WR if he adds about 10-15 lbs in the weight room. Shouldn't be impossible.

Coleman had a big game w/ 2 TD receptions before he broke his hand so I've seen how good he can be. Needs to be more consistent.

Seth DeValve has also been listed as a WR. I can see a Slot Receiver role with him that creates a size advantage on many 3rd corners.

Louis has a rock quarry for hands & Payton couldn't get any better than Robiskie so he got busted using HGH so 2 windows could be closing fast if things don't change soon.

 

I'm guessing musical QBs didn't help.

 

Many coaches/teams like to frequently use formations with 3-4 WRs so it wouldn't kill me if we started the draft off with Myles Garrett at #1 and Mike Williams or OJ Howard (that can line up as a WR inside/outside/slot or a TE or a FB/H-Back). We've frequently done a lot worse and it didn't just start in 2016...

[Flugel]

 

 

FWIW, I wasn't intending to put you on trial for either knucklehead and I agree with your points about them. Well done!

 

Well, you were, thats why you said it....but no matter....Ive always been willing to admit when Im wrong and have never claimed to always being right....I always try to say it like I see it...period... - Mud

 

Believe me when I tell you that Gordon comment was aimed at those still getting excited about Josh Gordon. That said, I'm sorry I missed out on the opportunity to bust your balls about Gilbert. I'll make sure I back pocket that sucker. Just kidding....

 

Folks just dont like to hear some of it.... - Mud

 

I know Mudsies - you saw me sticking up for you last week.

 

You know Fluges...it would been nice...for ONCE....to draft a guy who shows up on day one and just kills it!.(happens every year)(with guys we passed on too).....instead I sit here reading pafge after page of spinning tales about injuries, schemes and lack of experience that prevent them from killing it(like they will someday)(if I could only just see it and wait a minute)....

 

Well Im waiting......(for our FO to nail a draft).....and to stop continually passing on great players and ignoring needs..... -Mud

 

Me too my man! I hate this freakin losing all the time and I don't feel like sayin freakin if you know what I mean. As big of a Zeke Elliott fan as I was/remain - Crow wasn't the guy we needed to improve upon the most so I was okay with us sticking with Crow. He averaged 4.9 yards per carry behind our line,which means he probably would have averaged about 7 yards a carry behind the best run blocking line in Dallas last year. Prior to being named Freshman of the Year in the SEC - Crow was one of the top ranked RBs in the country. On the other hand, I was wrong about Bosa. He was unbelievable so I'm happy Divine Intervention is putting Myles Garrett on our door step just 1 year later.

 

I'm sorry I won't be able to make it to Canton Mike's to join you guys this year.