Kizer or Hogan

[browns52]

16 hours ago, Orion said:

I know this is hard for you to swallow...but...Keizer is our QB.  He is the one with the unknown ceiling.  He has shown signs of progressing and it's only been 3 games.  Only if DeShone quits throwing the ball long will Hue bench him.

As far as the OC.  I voted no.  Because Hue wants to run HIS offense and call the plays.  This is not abnormal for HC's from the offensive side of the ball.  Do I agree with his play calling all the time?  Hell no.  Especially down inside the 5 yard line.  But you're never going to agree with every play ANY play caller calls.  His clock management is suspect also (especially last year's Cincy game just before the half).  But he's what we've got...and we've had worse (unless you talk to the Ghoul).

 - jbluhm86, love your sig!

face it...this team probably has the worse reciever corp in the history of the nfl..the ol with the moola spent stinks to high heaven...Shmucking crowell is not a very good rb...i see him as maybe, maybe 1 jump up from good ol trent richardson, which means crowell stinks...the db's suck. the overall lb core is modest at best...the dl is ok...special teams...have not heard a peep from them except for holding calls on kickoff returns and punt returns...coachie coach looks lost on the sidelines as every other coach we have had...keizer, who knows...all i know is that goff and wentz are waaaaaaay ahead of keizer at this point. we could have had either one...so our Shmucking mgmt team also sucks...as far as chachi and lamebrain go, they can take their Shmucking algorythms and shove them up their arses.....

[browns52]

35 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

I predicted a 13-3 under an assumed notion that we would play the best QB and actually try to win games.

Under Hogan this team is 4-0.

go seek treatment at once....for moronity....

[PoeticG]

Hogan was not playing against second teamers. The Bengals wanted that shutout. The wanted it badly and who saved the day? 

[D Bone]

35 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Except Hogan isnt a 3 yr vet...he was a rookie just last season(like Kessler)

I stand corrected

11 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Hogan was not playing against second teamers. The Bengals wanted that shutout. The wanted it badly and who saved the day? 

Duke! 

[Dutch Oven]

16 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Hogan was not playing against second teamers. The Bengals wanted that shutout. The wanted it badly and who saved the day? 

Your poem about Hogan should be about how he saved the day against the mighty Bengals of Cincinnati.

I came up with a Hogan poem PoG. I'm not very good at poetry, but I hope you like it anyways. I worked on it for a while.

Roses are red

Violets are blue

Kevin Hogan gives me a massive erection

What says you, Hue?

[PoeticG]

I'll be honest with you, it's not very good.

 

[stillmotion]

Kizer is a 3 year project. So unless we want to play him and potentially suck for 3 years, we should see what hogan has.

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, PoeticG said:

Manziel? Richardson? What the literal Shmuck are you talking about? 

The Browns MUST win this game at all costs today. The loser of this game is done for the year. So forgive me for wanting to see the QB that gives us the best chance to win. 

I'm not willing to take L's for the fun of it.

We just did- it was NOT fun. I'm taking odds on the Browns having the #1 overall again. I saw horrendous play, in all phases of the game. I really think winless at the bye- Hue is done. Suckin' for Sam. 

[Dutch Oven]

30 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

I'll be honest with you, it's not very good.

 

How about a limerick?

There once was a man from Stanford

Superior than the guy from Notre Dame that was a turd

But Hue wouldn't put him in

Oh! What a sin!

So I complained all day on a message board

 

[PoeticG]

We were once a great team, 

but we don't win anymore, 

summer was a dream,

we are no wins in four.

 

They cut our best players,

say they were long in the tooth, 

it's a scapegoat, naysayers-

so they can blame it on youth.

 

Hue say's "We need to play better"

but the dude's just a douche,

Kevin Hogan's the answer, 

quit hiding the truth.

 

Hue Jackson's a jackass,

jacking off in the booth,

if he keeps playing Kizer-

and suppressing the Truth.

 

 

[Marc1971]

"Get all our skill players involved".

LOL! We have skill players?

[hoorta]

18 minutes ago, Marc1971 said:

"Get all our skill players involved".

LOL! We have skill players?

We have Kenny "The POS" Britt. 

[PoeticG]

I think that Peppers could contribute more on the Offensive side of the ball than what he is giving to Special Teams.

He clearly fair caught one I thought should have been allowed to go into the endzone. He's done average on kick returns and been just okay on Punt Returns. 

I think that Duke Johnson is a playmaker. 

QB is a skill position and I believe Hogan is a playmaker.

I think that all of our WRs have a shot at being good if they are given the opportunity. They are not getting a chance that chance with Kizer. A Quarterback needs to be like a point guard on the basketball court. They dish the rock and make assists happen. You would guys agree that some Point Guards are better at getting the ball out to the playmakers better than others? Why is football so different. 

[mjp28]

2 hours ago, Marc1971 said:

"Get all our skill players involved".

LOL! We have skill players?

What ticket takers and the guy's selling hot dogs aren't skilled players in Cleveland?  

[Tour2ma]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

PoG, I see under interests you like to write poems. Can you write a nice poem about Hogan? I think this board would enjoy it.

An ode to Hoge?

[Tour2ma]

Have to admit Hogan looked really good against the Bengals' 2nd teamers... /s

[Dutch Oven]

35 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Have to admit Hogan looked really good against the Bengals' 2nd teamers... /s

Kevin "Garbage Time" Hogan?

[PoeticG]

The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans?

We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.

[stillmotion]

4 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

That's all Hogan has ever done is win.

PoG, I like Hogan, but you've gone full Tebow Skip Bayless on the "All he does is win", hahaha

[Dutch Oven]

At this point, I'm all for Hogan coming in and starting the next four games or so. Let Kizer catch his breath and learn some things from the time he's had so far.

I wouldn't be shocked if Hogan played better than Kizer. He has more NFL experience than Kizer does, and had more college experience too.

Doesn't change that I don't see Hogan being much more than Kessler 2.0.

[Mudfly]

agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....

[Hempman]

Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).

Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.

Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.

[syd]

5 minutes ago, Hempman said:

Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).

Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.

Marvin Lewis telling Jackson "don't let them quit on you" is damning bad for Jackson's future. The coaching community doesn't believe in him.

cowpoop hue has no say in the draft if any of them had a clue at all they would have drafted wentz or trub

[Hempman]

Hue absolutely has a say. His say on QB has been the deciding answer except for Hogan. Joel Berry likely has the highest say on the draft inside the FO outside QB. Wentz does not impress me. His pure throwing talent is weak. That is why Hue passed. Trub was supported inside by some of the Browns FO, which means a lot, but has not played yet and that probably is not a good sign this year for him. The way Hue gushes over Kizer and the lie it is sickens me.

Hue has made his own bed. He has made his own way. He was a bad hire from the start and I said so 18 months ago.

[D Bone]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Have to admit Hogan looked really good against the Bengals' 2nd teamers... /s

Well, it was still totally fair as our 1st team O is nothing but an average NFL 2nd team unit. 

[ballpeen]

I am all for giving Hogan a shot.  Hue only pulled Kize because Cincy started going with back-up;s on D and didn't want Kizer to look like the Sheet he is against the 2nd team.

[bbedward]

13 hours ago, Hempman said:

Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).

Speculation, at best. I wouldn't expect a head coach to speak anything but positive about any QB the team signed or drafted.

---

That said I'm down to see Hogan start this week against the Jets...This team desperately needs a win, and the offense has looked better in the brief time Hogan has played so far.

Kizer has great physical talent and high potential upside, but it was pretty well known that he would be a work-in-progress when he was drafted.  He shouldn't have gotten thrust into the starting role on day 1

[CaineDeSoulis]

only 5 more interceptions and kizer has tied the number of interceptions thrown by the team last year. say what you will about Britt and the deflection INT but that ball was far far too fast and the spiral was so wobbly, In super slow mo looked like it was tumbling.

[hoorta]

14 hours ago, Mudfly said:

agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....

Only watched a minute or two of Kizer's post game presser. He's beaten down already. Agreed, it's time for Hogan's Heroes to see what he's got. Kizer can sit and watch. I'm already sick of seeing Deshone do a great Akilli Smith impersonation, throwing passes into the dirt, or so far over receivers heads even a guy with jumping ability like LeBron couldn't get a handle on them.

I thought the Jets were "sucking for Sam", at the rate the Browns are playing, one of the top 2018 QBs will be in easy reach.

 

[Tour2ma]

18 hours ago, PoeticG said:

The only time that he's been allowed on the field... and every single time he's been given the opportunity all he does is win. That's all Hogan has ever done is win. I get that you wouldn't get that, after all - what do we know about winning, we're Browns Fans? We play for high draft picks in Cleveland.

Anytime you want to compare what we "get" about football relative to each other... just let me know.

17 hours ago, Mudfly said:

agreed....id like to see Hogan, not because I think he's the answer. but because Kizer has been so bad.......we need a boost and Kizer aint gonna pick this team up and get a win.....no way no how....Hogan just might.....

Anything Hogan might bring would simply be a sugar high. Kizer has been bad, but... as I have written elsewhere... not the same level of bad in the same areas week to week. #babysteps

17 hours ago, Hempman said:

Another favor to Hogan is, he is the only QB the FO itself has brought in without Hue Jackson's "approval". Hue's QB choices have looked lackluster so far(RGIII,Kizer,Kessler).

Browns fans love the dialectical illusion of Hue Jackson and the "good ole boy" network. That rarely works. Ask LSU. The sabremetrics guys did not hire Hue Jackson in here. They were squashed together by Jimmy 18 months ago. They have given Hue his choice of QB's while they purged and are redrafting the roster. Hue and his chosen QB's are not getting the job done in progression. Nobody is asking for 9-10 wins. Just progression. I would not be surprised if the Brock starting preseason games wasn't a FO move only for them to be impressed by Hogan's development and so they dumped him and let Hue tie his own rope with Kizer. I think Hogan can become a wonderful backup QB in this league. Kizer right now, is not even that.

17 hours ago, Hempman said:

Hue absolutely has a say. His say on QB has been the deciding answer except for Hogan. Joel Berry likely has the highest say on the draft inside the FO outside QB. Wentz does not impress me. His pure throwing talent is weak. That is why Hue passed. Trub was supported inside by some of the Browns FO, which means a lot, but has not played yet and that probably is not a good sign this year for him.

Curious as to where you are getting your inside info... Specifically Kizer being a Hue pick deserving of grouping with Kess and RG3, and Berry's "say weighting".

Hue was hired on Jan. 3, 2016. Depo on Jan 5. They came in together. Jimmah was involved, but I suspect Sashi (and Dee) were just as involved and that Hue was made aware of the FO direction and Depo's pending hire. Regardless I'm sure Hue is a participant in all roster moves, albeit with more QB "input" as you suggest. Ours is a consensus process. Hue is part of that process. He may well hold more "sway" in QB discussions, but he has no added authority than that sway affords him. At least that's my take based upon years of work with organizational dynamics.

FWIW I do agree on your general QB takes, if not your basis. Bears have announced that Trubs get the Week 5 start, so the feedback loop begins Sunday. I think he'll be used much the same as Wentz was early in 2016 and so far this year... a lot of simplification... a lot of designed movement. Something Kizer can still benefit from.

4 hours ago, bbedward said:

Kizer has great physical talent and high potential upside, but it was pretty well known that he would be a work-in-progress when he was drafted.  He shouldn't have gotten thrust into the starting role on day 1

Agree, but despite Hue begging no one else in the QB room stood up and took the job. It was supposed to be Kess'... he turned it down. It was handed to Brock... he dropped it like a hot potato. And surprise of surprises the stage did not look too big for our rookie.