Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?

[The Gipper]

A Bleacher Report writer has it like this:

1	Sam Darnold	USC
2	Josh Rosen	UCLA
3	Josh Allen	Wyoming
4	Baker Mayfield	Oklahoma
5	Lamar Jackson	Louisville
6	Mason Rudolph	Oklahoma State
7	Luke Falk	Washington State
8	Nick Fitzgerald	Mississippi State
9	Will Grier	West Virginia
10	Jarrett Stidham	Auburn

[The Gipper]

Sports Illustrated has these as Top Ten overall prospects:

1. Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
2. Bradley Chubb, EDGE, N.C. State
3. Minkah Fitzpatrick, DB, Alabama
4. Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame
5. Sam Darnold, QB, USC
6. Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
7. Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
8. Christian Wilkins, DT, Clemson
9. Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia
10. Connor Williams, OT, Texas

[The Gipper]

Ourlads has it this way:

Quarterbacks

1	Josh Rosen	UCLA
2	Baker Mayfield	Oklahoma
3	Sam Darnold	USC
4	Mason Rudolph	Oklahoma State
5	Josh Allen	Wyoming
6	Luke Falk	Washington State
7	Clayton Thorson	Northwestern
8	Nick Fitzgerald	Mississippi State
9	Jeremiah Briscoe	Sam Houston State, UAB
10	Mike White	Western Kentucky

[The Gipper]

Pro Football Focus has listed their top 3 as:

Mayfield

Jackson

Will Grier of WVu

(though this may just be their number scores from this years)

[The Gipper]

DraftGeek only has these in their Top 99:

2  Rosen

10 Darnold

56 Jackson

58 Allen

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings/

[The Gipper]

NFL DraftBoard has this:

RankPlayerPositionGrade

 

1S DarnoldQB4.69

2A KeyDE/OLB5.38

3D JamesFS6.03

4J RosenQB7.06

5M McGlincheyOT10.44

6J AllenQB12.25

7M FitzpatrickCB12.59

8S BarkleyRB12.75

9C WilkinsDT13.50

10C RidleyWR16.32

11T McFaddenCB18.34

12H LandryLB20.30

13M JeffersonLB22.21

14B ChubbDE/OLB23.36

15C WilliamsOT23.76

16C KirkWR23.88

17C SuttonWR25.23

18D GuiceRB25.41

19T LewisDE/OLB27.04

20S HubbardDE/OLB27.04

21Q NelsonC/G28.92

22M HyattOT29.50

23M RudolphQB29.94

24O BrownOT32.48

25L JacksonQB33.20

26J WashingtonWR33.60

27D PayneDT37.63

28M RankinOT37.94

29V VeaDT38.60

30C OkoraforOT39.50

31C SmithLB39.57

32J AlexanderCB40.53

33D HandDE/OLB42.53

34J StidhamQB43.67

35J BrowningQB43.83

36E St BrownWR44.50

37Kc McDermottOT45.00

38A TateWR45.00

39M IveyOT45.36

40J SweatDE/OLB45.42

41R HarrisonFS46.00

42D CainWR47.29

43J WhiteheadFS47.54

44N PatrickLB48.00

45D NnadiDT48.20

46J BakerLB48.22

47T AdamsOT48.25

48L FalkQB48.50

71B RypienQB55.00

[Harry Buffalo]

Honestly at this point the only QB I would consider with #1 is Rosen, but he scares the Sheet out of me. I think he has an amazingly high ceiling, but I think he is also the most likely to completely flame out do to his attitude. Can he be coached? When I ask that, I don't necessarily mean during practice or in the film room. I think he can take fundamental coaching and I think he would work his butt off studying film. What I mean is if his coach pulls him to the side on Sunday to talk about a pick or a missed throw, is this guy going to say, "Shmuck that I know more than you." Is he going to be someone who at some point struggles with adversity and decides, "Hey this really isn't fun anymore, lets just milk this for as long as I can." Those are the vibes I get from him based on things that I have read. 

[calfoxwc]

As I see it, Rosen reminds me of another talented qb with arrogance/character concerns.

Jimmy Clausen, drafted by the Bears.

***************************************************

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/363803-2010-nfl-draft-player-profile-jimmy-clausen

"He still has some leadership and character concerns, but overall, Clausen is always in the conversation as possibly being the best prospect in this year's quarterback class. He could still go No. 1 overall."

 

Strengths

"Clausen is a very fluid and natural passer with over three years of solid experience in a pro-style offense and against solid competition."

"However, the confusion between confidence and arrogance raises the question if he can lead grown men at the next level and obtain his pro team's respect and full backing."

"His true knocks, which are very warranted, are his lazy footwork and his questionable character. Clausen said in a recent interview that he thinks people don't understand him, and while that may be so, the perception of the person he is, still stands."

[wargograw]

11 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

As for Rosen the teammate...

This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.

UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player

• Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:

Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.

His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.

Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.

“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”

That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.

In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.

“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”

“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”

It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.

Jeff Tarpley is a clown. Very low character guy. The stories are endless.

[Tour2ma]

9 hours ago, wargograw said:

Jeff Tarpley is a clown. Very low character guy. The stories are endless.

So he's known to make up quotes?

[The Gipper]

As I see it, Rosen reminds me of another talented qb with arrogance/character concerns.

Jimmy Clausen, drafted by the Bears.

 

Well, I think you will dig under any rock to find a comparison to some failed QB.

The thing is....there are also other guys that came with arrogance and character concerns:   Joe Namath,  Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Theismann, Brett Favre, Ken Stabler,  Aaron Rodgers etc.

So the knife could cut both ways.

A franchise QB...to me...needs to be a bit arrogant.

[hoorta]

22 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

As for Rosen the teammate...

This was written going into the 2017 season by an Aggie 247 contributor.

UCLA teammates and coaches rally around QB Josh Rosen

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen stirs controversy with his public comments but his teammates have a different opinion of him as a teammate and player

• Jeff Tarpley - Aug 28, 5:49 PM

UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen received the nickname "Chosen" from his friends after a Sports Illustrated spread in 2014. However, although Rosen was seemingly "chosen" to be face of UCLA football, it hasn't worked out as planned. As Thuc Nhi Nguyen writes in the Orange County Register:

Rosen was chosen as the face of UCLA for his on-field talent and his off-field intellect. In the process, his greatest gift, his ever-questioning mind, has also become his great curse.

His honest answers stoke Internet media fires. His habit to ask “why” can be seen as challenging or arrogant. He makes more headlines for his words than his play now, especially after his sophomore season was derailed with a shoulder injury.

Rosen's coach, offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, read things about Rosen that turned out to be less than accurate.

“I’ve learned that he’s extremely hard working,” the well-traveled 40-year-old assistant said. “That he is extremely diligent. That the game is extremely important to him. That his talent level, while special, also has a lot to do with how much he works at it. … I’ve also learned that he can be coached really hard.”

That’s the Rosen the Bruins know. The one who stays after practice to throw extra routes to any receiver who asks. The one who led every player-run practice this summer, 25 in all. The one who buys his offensive linemen dinner every week and orders them personalized gold necklaces with their last names and jersey numbers.

In fact, his teammates defended him after less than flattering articles in various publications.

“I don’t know how people can jump to that conclusion; we all love Josh,” center Scott Quessenberry said. “He comes out every day and he competes hard.”

“A lot of people don’t have that voice but a lot of us are thinking the things he says,” said safety Jaleel Wadood, who also played with Rosen at St. John Bosco. “Some of us don’t say it because they don’t have that platform like he does.”

It's Rosen's last chance to live up to expectations and be the player that his teammates tell people he is. That chance starts on September 3 versus the Aggies.

No doubt Rosen has the smarts. That can certainly rub some people (or teammates) the wrong way. Aw gee, he doesn't like Trump, well he has plenty of company there.

[hoorta]

Thanks to Gip for digging up all those mocks. It will be a while before the cumlative muncher comes out. Play in bowl games will play a part. Mayfield's stock will soar if he tears it up and wins the National championship.

Won't know until mid January which underclassmen will declare.

[nickers]

5 minutes ago, hoorta said:

No doubt Rosen has the smarts. That can certainly rub some people (or teammates) the wrong way. Aw gee, he doesn't like Trump, well he has plenty of company there.

I don't hate Trump.. I just wish he would hire a publicist and a speaker who could articulate his thoughts better for him...

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

As I see it, Rosen reminds me of another talented qb with arrogance/character concerns.

Jimmy Clausen, drafted by the Bears.

 

Well, I think you will dig under any rock to find a comparison to some failed QB.

The thing is....there are also other guys that came with arrogance and character concerns:   Joe Namath,  Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Theismann, Brett Favre, Ken Stabler,  Aaron Rodgers etc.

So the knife could cut both ways.

A franchise QB...to me...needs to be a bit arrogant.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/aaron-rodgers-2005-nfl-draft-scouting-reports

Rodgers - nope.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/212246281.html/

Scouts weren't saying any such thing about Favre

Theismann and Stabler, sure....

[PoeticG]

A fine line between entitlement/arrogance and confidence/passion. 

[Dutch Oven]

20 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/aaron-rodgers-2005-nfl-draft-scouting-reports

Rodgers - nope.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/212246281.html/

Scouts weren't saying any such thing about Favre

Theismann and Stabler, sure....

Apparently the scouts missed a pretty big personality flaw with Favre - he'd be traded by Atlanta to Green Bay after one season because, in his words: "I didn't help my time with the Falcons by trying to drink all of Atlanta..."

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, nickers said:

I don't hate Trump.. I just wish he would hire a publicist and a speaker who could articulate his thoughts better for him...

As a wise man once said: "You can't polish a turd, Beavis".

[wargograw]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So he's known to make up quotes?

No. I guess it’s not relevant. What is, however, is the actual evidence that they don’t have a great relationship (Rosen, teammates, fans).

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Apparently the scouts missed a pretty big personality flaw with Favre - he'd be traded by Atlanta to Green Bay after one season because, in his words: "I didn't help my time with the Falcons by trying to drink all of Atlanta..."

has nothing to do with the subject of having character flaws in college prior to the draft. The Atlanta Falcons are an NFL team.

[flyingfooldoug]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

As a wise man once said: "You can't polish a turd, Beavis".

They polished a turd on myth busters. Then you get a pretty piece of shyt

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

has nothing to do with the subject of having character flaws in college prior to the draft. The Atlanta Falcons are an NFL team.

Yes, I'm sure Favre's character flaws started immediately he was drafted by the Falcons.

He was most likely a choir boy the year before at Southern Miss.

[The Gipper]

14 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

has nothing to do with the subject of having character flaws in college prior to the draft. The Atlanta Falcons are an NFL team.

Glad that you are so enlightened that you do not see  alcoholism and addiction as a character flaw. 

Favre drank heavily....then went on to become addicted to Vicodin.   But, he recovered. 

And if you don't think that Favre...or Aaron Rodgers have not displayed a lot of arrogance....you must not have been watching.

By the way....I don't mind some arrogance and Sockiness if you can back it up.   These guy did.  A guy like JFF did not.

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Glad that you are so enlightened that you do not see  alcoholism and addiction as a character flaw. 

Favre drank heavily....then went on to become addicted to Vicodin.   But, he recovered. 

And if you don't think that Favre...or Aaron Rodgers have not displayed a lot of arrogance....you must not have been watching.

By the way....I don't mind some arrogance and Sockiness if you can back it up.   These guy did.  A guy like JFF did not.

I'm glad you haven't lost your ability to quibble stupidly. I don't see anywhere where favre did that IN COLLEGE, as in, BEFORE THE DRAFT. that is the subject - drafting players who already showed themselves to have serious problems.

  Don't be stupid - extremely confident is not the same as being character flaw asswhole arrogant.  Jimmy Clausen/Rosenare not just arrogant - they have personality flaws and extreme arrogance is part of that.

  I'm talking degrees here - having a great sense of humor is not the same as being a practical joker that stupidly gets people injured and no one can stand. You apparently don't know the difference.

[Tour2ma]

Meanwhile back at the thread...

I think we saw today why the answer to the thread title is, "Yes."

It's not that Kizer cannot continue to improve, he can, but everything seems to be a learning process. In the history of blank slates, I am hard pressed to think of a blanker one.

Today I saw continued improvement in intermediate level QB play for about 3.5 quarters... short touch was better... decision making was better... deep passing? Well, it wasn't worse.

But when we got to crunch time, a fresh, blank slate emerged.

• Holding the ball forever even as he moved nicely out of the pocket to get strip sacked on a third and long when a FG is a good alternative...
• Then with time waning taking a sack a foot from the sideline when a backhand pass OB kills the clock?

Situational football can be taught, can be learned... even ingrained deep enough to be there in crunch time...

... but we don't have the time.

[LondonBrown]

With a strong run defense, Njoku, Coleman, Devalve and Duke plus maybe Gordon plus a shitload of draft picks this team is ready to win some games. Kizer can develop but his red zone play is atrocious  

Draft Rosen and don’t look back. 

[Dutch Oven]

Just now, LondonBrown said:

With a strong run defense, Njoku, Coleman, Devalve and Duke plus maybe Gordon this team is ready to win some games. Kizer can develop but his red zone play is atrocious  

Draft Rosen and don’t look back. 

I have no idea if this current front office will be here come next April, but I can't see them (or whoever replaces them) staring at the #1 overall pick and saying: "Yeah, but we have Kizer"...

Not only that, what non-QB looks like a great alternative to take #1 overall?

[LondonBrown]

13 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I have no idea if this current front office will be here come next April, but I can't see them (or whoever replaces them) staring at the #1 overall pick and saying: "Yeah, but we have Kizer"...

Not only that, what non-QB looks like a great alternative to take #1 overall?

Exactly, it is going to be a QB, it’s all set up for it. And then add some playmakers on the perimeter on both sides of the ball. 

People will be surprised how quickly this team can win

Edit - new head coach permitting 

[Nero]

The good news about Kizer being so bad is that we can be sure that we will draft a QB high next draft. 

Imagine if he stepped up in his game and they got to think ''hey, maybe he's our guy''... Yikes! 

[Mark O]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Meanwhile back at the thread...

I think we saw today why the answer to the thread title is, "Yes."

It's not that Kizer cannot continue to improve, he can, but everything seems to be a learning process. In the history of blank slates, I am hard pressed to think of a blanker one.

Today I saw continued improvement in intermediate level QB play for about 3.5 quarters... short touch was better... decision making was better... deep passing? Well, it wasn't worse.

But when we got to crunch time, a fresh, blank slate emerged.

• Holding the ball forever even as he moved nicely out of the pocket to get strip sacked on a third and long when a FG is a good alternative...
• Then with time waning taking a sack a foot from the sideline when a backhand pass OB kills the clock?

Situational football can be taught, can be learned... even ingrained deep enough to be there in crunch time...

... but we don't have the time.

I think the game just moves too fast for Kizer unfortunately.   Equally as unfortunate....I think it moves to fast for our head coach as well to handle the job.  Those two things together are not going to win many games.