Flugel Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, mjp28 said: One huge difference Aikman had good talent around him to start in 1989.... Aikman would eventually win three Super Bowl rings with the Cowboys, and led the team to four consecutive NFC championship games - 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995 seasons, with victories in 1992, 1993, and 1995. Kizer isn't there now. Thanks for the reply. I disagree that Aikman had good talent around him in 89 and here's why. I think the only BIG name guy there was Michael Irvin - just 1 year after the 3-13 talent pool got a HOF Coach Tom Landry fired. Emmitt Smith and Jay Novacek weren't there yet while future Pro Bowl Lineman like Erik Williams, Larry Allen and Marc Stepnoski had yet to be drafted. FB Moose Johnston was just a rookie so the play makers he was sentenced to were: RB Paul Palmer, WR Derrick Sheppard, WR Kelvin Martin, and TE Steve Folsom. He got 2 concussions just from the Philadelphia Eagles as a rookie QB reminding me he needed way more help than what was there. Again, Aikman was a consensus #1 QB that was drafted 1st overall while Kizer was polarizing at best prior to joining a 1-15 team here. He was drafted somewhere in the middle of round 2 in a QB draft class that labelled many of its top QB prospects NFL projects. The only thing that closely resembles that Cowboys team and their QB situation is the volume of draft picks they got from a Herschel Walker trade to expedite the emergence out of growing pains (while trades have this team set up for 5 picks in the first 2 rounds). Unfortunately, I don't think this equips Kizer with the same accuracy and football IQ Troy had. I've certainly been wrong before though - especially now with the types of offenses today's QBs in being trained in at the college level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right? The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Kizer has 0 QB instincts.. Thats the difference between him and the greats like Aikman and of course,, Manning..(Peyton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, nickers said: Kizer has 0 QB instincts.. Thats the difference between him and the greats like Aikman and of course,, Manning..(Peyton) Oh no doubt Kizer is not a franchise QB but on this team in 2018 the question is,......... Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 57 minutes ago, mjp28 said: Right in a way the triplets weren't together yet and the key to it all on the ground the road graders at OL were forming but they had the right coach and even the organization after all they were "AMERICA'S TEAM" (barf) right? The meteoric rise from 1989 to Champs in 1992 was in place to happen. True but Jimmy Johnson's first record in 89 was 1-15 with the task of overhauling talent on both sides of the ball. IF Jimmy J and Jerry J didn't make the Herschel Walker trade expediting the arrival of help - I'm guessing the Troy Aikman story has a few more concussions and growing pains. Another important variable in all this was pegging guys right with draft criteria and egos at the top working together (at least long enough to get it all off the ground). This off season is a tremendous opportunity for the FO. Regardless of what people think of Sashi's draft choices, Dorsey made it a point to say Sashi set him up good for his first draft here and rightfully so. 5 draft picks in the first 2 rounds can jumper cable us right out of park especially if the people making the choices can tell the difference between a Michael Thomas and a Corey Coleman. I think we have room to add a pick of the litter at QB especially when #4 overall puts us in position to add a pick of the litter at another position. Then we have 3 picks in round 2 plus a lot of cake to compete for the yes price tags of FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 8:52 AM, jiggins7919 said: Kizer will get the full advantage of knowing the offensive system, the players, the protections, and a full year of big-boy experience under his belt. We really can't say that without knowing the offensive coordinator situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, Flugel said: True but Jimmy Johnson's first record in 89 was 1-15 with the task of overhauling talent on both sides of the ball. IF Jimmy J and Jerry J didn't make the Herschel Walker trade expediting the arrival of help - I'm guessing the Troy Aikman story has a few more concussions and growing pains. Another important variable in all this was pegging guys right with draft criteria and egos at the top working together (at least long enough to get it all off the ground). Also true one of the most important and biggest dumbazz deals of all time, given the circumstances. Briefly.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade .......Four games into the 1989 season, Jimmy Johnson, then head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, came up with the idea to trade Walker while on a morning jog with his staff. Johnson felt the Cowboys were so terrible that only a blockbuster trade could help them. He briefly considered trading wide receiver Michael Irvin to the Los Angeles Raiders, but Raiders owner Al Davisessentially talked Johnson out of the trade by saying, "You sure you want to do that? Who is going to catch passes for you?" Johnson felt that Walker was the only remaining bargaining chip they had. A number of teams contacted the Cowboys when they announced that they would trade Walker. The New York Giants expressed interest, but the trade would have been unfavorable for Dallas since both teams were in the NFC East division. The Atlanta Falcons entered into negotiations, but eventually pulled out over fear of Walker's future contract demands. The most serious offer came from the Cleveland Browns. Johnson stated, "[The Browns] offered us a player, a couple of future number one draft picks and three number two draft picks." The Cowboys felt this was a favorable offer, but they also felt that if another team were to enter the discussion, then they could generate a bidding war and thereby get even more compensation. Jimmy Johnson and team owner Jerry Jones decided to contact other clubs to generate buzz and create leverage. Johnson contacted Minnesota Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn. Johnson told Lynn that he was going to trade Walker to Cleveland that afternoon, and that if Minnesota would like to trade for Walker, then it would cost them "players, draft picks, conditional picks, and provisions", giving Lynn a deadline of 6:30 p.m. Lynn, feeling Walker was the missing piece to a Super Bowl run, faxed Johnson that he was interested, and soon after negotiations ensued. In order to get Walker to agree to a trade, the Cowboys paid him a $1.25 million "exit bonus"...... ...... (could the BROWNS do this today, so you want to be a dealer?) Players/Draft Picks Received by the Minnesota Vikings RB Herschel Walker Dallas's 3rd round pick – 1990 (54) (Mike Jones) Dallas's 5th round pick – 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton) Dallas's 10th round pick – 1990 (249) (Pat Newman) Dallas's 3rd round pick – 1991 (68) (Jake Reed) Players/Draft Picks Received by the Dallas Cowboys LB Jesse Solomon LB David Howard CB Issiac Holt RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas) DE Alex Stewart Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft Emmitt Smith) Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright) Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams) Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon) – (12) (Alvin Harper) Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard) – (38) (Dixon Edwards) Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt) – (37) (Darren Woodson) Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Nelson) – (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner) Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional on cutting Stewart) – (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins) The Vikings had assumed that they got the better end of the deal, but not knowing at the time, Head Coach Jimmy Johnson was interested only in the draft choices and not the players (although cornerback Issiac Holt remained on the team through Super Bowl XXVII). Dallas ended up with a total of six of Minnesota's picks over the succeeding years, two 1st round and one 2nd round picks were used to draft Emmitt Smith and Darren Woodson, winning multiple Super Bowls and being voted on to go to the Pro Bowl numerous times. Jimmy Johnson used the other draft picks to make trades with other teams around the NFL. One of the trades led to obtaining the first overall draft pick in 1991, which was used to draft Russell Maryland. In other words, the trade of Walker to the Vikings contributed largely to the Cowboys' success in the early 1990s. For this reason, ESPN.com lists it as the 8th most lopsided trade in sports history.[4] 17 years later, the trade was still an easy target for satire: one ESPN columnist, assessing the impact of free agency on the NFL, noted that it had almost entirely replaced significant trades and by doing so "took away one of the greatest shortcuts to becoming a Super Bowl champion: fleecing the Vikings."[5] The trade was detailed in an ESPN 30 for 30 film, The Great Trade Robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 In thinking about the Dallas train robbery deal what blue chip players do the BROWNS have now? ANSWER: None? Better keep building guys! There are some good players in this draft. GO BROWNS 2019! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 1:54 AM, SissyBoyFloyd said: Don't you remember how bad Aikman and Bradshaw were their first year and until they were surrounded by talented skill players? Wouldn't it be smart to simply draft your first choice at 1, but still let Kizer have a half year or more if necessary surrounded by talent. Still bringing in an experienced older qb to teach both of your young qbs. You then have hopefully 2 young qbs starter and backup on the cheap for 4 years. The older experienced guy to mentor will come cheap since he won't be coming to actually be a starter ..... ie. Maybe a Josh McCown type. I have said this all along. I didn't want another black Tarkenton, but, he is here and he has not been given a proper opportunity. His physical skills, really, are superior to any QB entering the 2018 draft. Browns fans are Shmucking idiots. The kid (a second round afterthought) throws a perfect waning moments pass to Coleman (Over rated #1 WR draft pick) and the piece of schidt drops the ball, giving the Steelers a victory, and it is a bad reflection on KIZER? WTF is wrong with Browns fans? How the fukc can they be so stupid as to be on the wrong side of every fukcing issue and personel decision? Haden blows..........but he is playing well for someone else - - - - - - Harrison is washed up - - - - But he is making plays for Belichik and going to yet more playoff games - - - - Wenz, and Goff are just not that good - - - - We don't need Julio Jones, he isn't that good - - - - ...................SO we get shcidt like Two Tackle Texas and Corey Coleslaw. Idiots. Idiot fans, Idiot city, Idiot franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, mjp28 said: In thinking about the Dallas train robbery deal what blue chip players do the BROWNS have now? ANSWER: None? Better keep building guys! There are some good players in this draft. GO BROWNS 2019! Don't kill my buzz before I even get one. True but their 3-13 that got Landry fired followed by 1-15 in JJ's Rookie NFL HC gig showed us similar bare cupboards pre-Herschel trade. Some might even argue Russell Maryland never played up to a #1 overall pick status either. Dallas made some mistakes along the way - they just had enough picks to make missing on some forgivable. These 1st 5 picks in 2 rounds this year with some good FA choices could change things considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, Flugel said: Don't kill my buzz before I even get one. True but their 3-13 that got Landry fired followed by 1-15 in JJ's Rookie NFL HC gig showed us similar bare cupboards pre-Herschel trade. Some might even argue Russell Maryland never played up to a #1 overall pick status either. Dallas made some mistakes along the way - they just had enough picks to make missing on some forgivable. These 1st 5 picks in 2 rounds this year with some good FA choices could change things considerably. I keep this thought in my mind that Joe Shobert is kind of like Larry Izzo in quality.. maybe a few frog hairs better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 6:39 AM, mjp28 said: Name me all of the good WRs that actually can run deep routes or even can CATCH the ball consistently.......oh besides the returning project Flash Gordon. And way back, yes that's how rare franchise QBs can be plus those two mentioned had some good targets on the team. It's not all the very young and super inexperienced QB at all. Hopefully the BROWNS can get a journeyman QB as a stopgap measure to start or at least have a good QB competition on this ZERO win team, even Kizer would be better than another rookie saviour. Maybe draft another project in the second round, OH and I and many others do NOT see any true franchise QBs in this bunch, we'll see. ........and we can quit beating up this dead horse again. This reply addresses ZERO of the issues with Kizer's play which have been stated throughout this thread. This thread is about Kizer, not the WR's, not the concept of a mentor. Kizer doesn't consistently put the ball in a place where his WR's can catch it. I'm certain Kizer can't be the solution because he, personally, is not accurate enough. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfBuddha Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 “If you have a little patience, he can do just about anything you can dream up” -Jon Gruden on Kizer I hope we don’t give up on the kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't know about Kizer but I still think Hogan has something to prove. This will be his 3rd season, he's going to learn a lot from the little bit of time he was able to get in last year. I expect him to make a huge leap this offseason. Rooting for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Orion said: We really can't say that without knowing the offensive coordinator situation. I think there's some validity to your statement, but I also have a difficult time believing we're going to reinvent the wheel on offense. For example, our I have to believe our language will remain the same (mostly), our concepts will largely remain intact, the majority of our players, our practice routines, etc. Regardless of our new OC's philosophy, Kizer will still have considerable advantages over any rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 6 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said: “If you have a little patience, he can do just about anything you can dream up” -Jon Gruden on Kizer I hope we don’t give up on the kid He also praised Johnny Canadian Football......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: He also praised Johnny Canadian Football......... He's just playing for the farm team across the lake. He'll be brought back up to the majors when he's ready for full time NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said: He's just playing for the farm team across the lake. He'll be brought back up to the majors when he's ready for full time NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfBuddha Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: He also praised Johnny Canadian Football......... I’m Johnny didn’t have substance abuse issues, he would still be our starter. Kid had so much talent. Who was the last qb to get us a win on a Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Kizer is a good kid. That being said he doesn't have what it takes to be a starting NFL QB. He could be a backup someday (Like Weeden). Let's not forget about Cody Kessler, who was praised by Hue only to be forgotten just like Kizer will be. If we're going to end this process, we need to find someone who produces now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 11:19 AM, mjp28 said: Oh no doubt Kizer is not a franchise QB but on this team in 2018 the question is,......... Are you all so sure Kizer can't be your QB? 95% Sure.... 22 hours ago, Ghoolie said: I have said this all along. I didn't want another black Tarkenton, but, he is here and he has not been given a proper opportunity. His physical skills, really, are superior to any QB entering the 2018 draft. Browns fans are Shmucking idiots. The kid (a second round afterthought) throws a perfect waning moments pass to Coleman (Over rated #1 WR draft pick) and the piece of schidt drops the ball, giving the Steelers a victory, and it is a bad reflection on KIZER? WTF is wrong with Browns fans? How the fukc can they be so stupid as to be on the wrong side of every fukcing issue and personel decision? Haden blows..........but he is playing well for someone else - - - - - - Harrison is washed up - - - - But he is making plays for Belichik and going to yet more playoff games - - - - Wenz, and Goff are just not that good - - - - We don't need Julio Jones, he isn't that good - - - - ...................SO we get shcidt like Two Tackle Texas and Corey Coleslaw. Sorry Tom, if it was just all about physical skills, Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell would be in the HOF. LOL, how did your "washed up" Tom Brady look yesterday against the Jaguars? accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. If you don't have it, the odds approach 100% you're never going to get it in the pros. Quick decisions- Kizer is slow as molasses recognizing where his open receivers are. I was on the right side of all those decisions. Not every Browns fan is as dumb as you make them out to be. Cutting Haden was a mistake (backed up by future HOFer Joe Thomas), I was on the Wentz wagon, thought Julio Jones was a rare talent. Harrison is about out of gas- would be worthless on the Browns, he'll retire after he collects another ring with the Patriots, along with Kenny Britt who's taking up a roster spot on the bench in New England... Or you think 2 catches for 23 yards with the Pats is worth $10 million? There's the difference, Britt whined and clubhouse cancered his way out of Cleveland, didn't want to be on a 0-16 loser. That's why guys will do almost anything to get on the Patriots- nice way to get a SB ring without doing much. PS Remains to be seen about Garrett, he did make the all rookie team playing hurt. Coleman probably will never live up to his draft status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, LionOfBuddha said: Who was the last qb to get us a win on a Sunday? Irrelevant. It's almost like asking who.was the last QB to be shutout on the scoreboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 14 hours ago, hoorta said: 95% Sure.... Sorry Tom, if it was just all about physical skills, Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell would be in the HOF. LOL, how did your "washed up" Tom Brady look yesterday against the Jaguars? accuracy, accuracy, accuracy. If you don't have it, the odds approach 100% you're never going to get it in the pros. Quick decisions- Kizer is slow as molasses recognizing where his open receivers are. I was on the right side of all those decisions. Not every Browns fan is as dumb as you make them out to be. Cutting Haden was a mistake (backed up by future HOFer Joe Thomas), I was on the Wentz wagon, thought Julio Jones was a rare talent. Harrison is about out of gas- would be worthless on the Browns, he'll retire after he collects another ring with the Patriots, along with Kenny Britt who's taking up a roster spot on the bench in New England... Or you think 2 catches for 23 yards with the Pats is worth $10 million? There's the difference, Britt whined and clubhouse cancered his way out of Cleveland, didn't want to be on a 0-16 loser. That's why guys will do almost anything to get on the Patriots- nice way to get a SB ring without doing much. PS Remains to be seen about Garrett, he did make the all rookie team playing hurt. Coleman probably will never live up to his draft status. Larry, Brady IS washed up. That Jcksonville chose to go in the tank and give im all day to pass is not an indictment on his state-of-the-union. I never said the guy was not accurate. However, when he is pressured, he sucks worse than Kizer. Atlanta completely changed their treatment of him in last year's SB, and Jacksonville did the same fukcing thing. NFL head coaches are crippled by statistics and probabilities and blah blah blah. Look man, when you have Brady 3d and 18 and you rush 4? You have to be out of your fukcking mind. THe 76 Steelers or the Bill Cowher era Steelers would BURY this Patriots team. What Brady did to Jacksonville was the same thing Elway did in the Drive game. Marty was a coward on defense, and Bernie was a coward on offense. The NFL has become a touch football league and head coaches are now, as a group, save for Bill Belichik afraid to go for the juggular. The first half, Brady couldn't do schidt. It took a faggot ref throwing a penalty for the legal hit on Gronk, and another pass interference call on a non-catchable Brady pass 5 yards out of bounds and 10 yards too long, to get the Pats back in the game. THEN...........Belichik puts 8 in the box, salivates on the run and screen pass............. and Jacksonville obliges him Dude, you are so pre-programmed by what talking heads tell you that you don't even know what the fukck you are watching. How the hell can a defense not cover a big fatasss liek Gronk running the same patterns play after play? Seriously dude, the guy isn't Lynn Swann. Jacksonville played like Marty/Kosar........... they were cowards. Yeah, give Brady all day and the benefit of refs who will help him on his bad passes, and he is stellar. Blitz him and rough him up fo FOUR quarters, and he won't do schidt. All this bullschidt about his 4th quarter comebacks. He doens't make 4th QTR comebacks because he is great. He makes them because opposing coaches are too fearful of closing out a game, of playing to win, of going after the QB. I will give Greg Williams that much......he goes after QBs. His secondary plays back in Ethiopia, but he does go after the QB. Jacksonville lost, Brady didn't do schidt that Deshone Kizer wouldn't have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Give it up Ghoolie. Some day you will be right on Brady, but it hasn't happened yet. He understands and uses a very sophisticated offense that is very difficult to blitz on a regular basis. NFL D coordinators get it. Those little fleas he throws to have tree routes based off both receivers and QB reading the blitz and they are very good at reading to get open in the right places on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Sure he could. Most anybody with an amount of talent and give it enough time to become comfortable with an above-average team can be successful. Blake Bortles Case Keenum Nick Foles... Who would have predicted a couple years ago they'd be playing for a title? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Westside Steve said: Who would have predicted a couple years ago they'd be playing for a title? Wasn't that Phoolie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 If blitzing Brady is the surefire way to make him play bad, then you'd think other teams would've been able to figure it out by now after this many seasons. Kizer is physically perfect at qb. When you see him in shorts and t-shirt, he's a big strong kid. Rock solid, huge arm, can run when needed, but by all accounts, he needed to sit for a year or more. He didn't, and that's a huge reason he simply could not produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: If blitzing Brady is the surefire way to make him play bad, then you'd think other teams would've been able to figure it out by now after this many seasons. Kizer is physically perfect at qb. When you see him in shorts and t-shirt, he's a big strong kid. Rock solid, huge arm, can run when needed, but by all accounts, he needed to sit for a year or more. He didn't, and that's a huge reason he simply could not produce I am not sure sitting for a year would have really helped him. It may have only deferred to the team the knowledge that he was inaccurate, turnover prone, and a poor decision maker. Now...maybe, with the experience he has had, he can improve.....but I think that is the only thing that could help him...so, no, sitting him would not have been helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Gipper said: I am not sure sitting for a year would have really helped him. It may have only deferred to the team the knowledge that he was inaccurate, turnover prone, and a poor decision maker. Now...maybe, with the experience he has had, he can improve.....but I think that is the only thing that could help him...so, no, sitting him would not have been helpful. Sitting him behind a veteran qb like mahomes did with Smith would've been a good thing. But then we dumped all qbs with wins, so.... There went that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SD_Tom said: Sitting him behind a veteran qb like mahomes did with Smith would've been a good thing. Again...that may not necessarily be true. Perhaps the only thing that can make some guys better is real game experience. Not sure if even that will have made Kizer better. But then we dumped all qbs with wins, so.... There went that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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