TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: Hard to disagree with flugel on just about anything. I guess if there was a gun to my head I would take Rosen or Darnold. But I would not be the slightest bit unhappy if they took Mayfield especially at number 4. It really is hard not to like the kid. As far as pre-draft interviews, seriously, who cares? Unless a kid came out and said man I want to play for the Browns even if they trade down to the second round to get me. Everybody wants to be picked high and everybody wants to take that team to the promised land. And there's no reason to believe that he's a head case. I really liked Johnny but he had serious mental problems, that had nothing to do with what conference he played in or how tall he was. Plus, for what it's worth, Bob Stoops loves the kid. Grabbing his pecker towards the opponent? Good. We could use a little bit of the ghost of Chris gardocki. WSS If we have a clear #1 QB in mind among the 1st 3, then we just need to take him. No f'n around, no trading down, no Barkely or anyone else @ #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said: If we have a clear #1 QB in mind among the 1st 3, then we just need to take him. No f'n around, no trading down, no Barkely or anyone else @ #1. Oh I agree with that, it's just that I wouldn't be heartbroken if we wound up with Baker Mayfield. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Oh I agree with that, it's just that I wouldn't be heartbroken if we wound up with Baker Mayfield. WSS After hearing the Movin' The Chains guys from Sirius XM saying he was the best all week at the Senior Bowl and definitely not JM, I tend to agree Steve. They think he and Rosen are the two best ready for the NFL right now. They think he has all the throws and the leadership skills you need to move an offense. And eats, sleeps, lives football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 8 hours ago, jbluhm86 said: Roethlisburger has 2 SB rings, yet he played for my alma mater, Miami University, in the MAC conference. Talent is where you find it. Good..Tell me reports from Todd Haley will not be coming out comparing size,arm strength & body type of Josh Allen are comparable to BR at school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 10 hours ago, SissyBoyFloyd said: I have been reading that Rudolph is sort of a one trick pony. He has a great talent for looking, finding, and hitting the long pass. But is not so good at throwing the out patterns, which is a must in nfl. I have been saying that Indys #3 pick is key to the first round of picks. Ideally the Brown's should quickly deal their 4th pick with their late 2nd for it. Then if want Mayfly over Darnold or whoever, they can take Barkley/Fitz/Chubb at one, or still take qb at one and trade three on draft day to highest bidder getting a boatload more picks or stock up for next year's draft. Mayfly just doesn't warrant the number one pick. I'll just say this- if you think a guy is worth the #3 or #4 pick, he's probably worth the #1. That's if we're talking quarterback. I forgot where I saw it, but it sort of goes, if you think taking anything other than a potential franchise quarterback over a position player at #1, you need to get on a Space X to Mars.... Regarding Rudolph. Here's part of the report from Walter Football: Rudolph will need development as a pro. He will have to work on his shaky accuracy and field vision, plus get used to playing under center and calling plays in the huddle. Rudolph is also not very athletic, though he has good size with average arm strength. Going through progressions and reading the field are problems for Rudolph, and he has to improve there for the NFL. His anticipation is terrible, too, and that will have to improve for the pros, or he could be taking a lot of sacks from holding onto the ball too long. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php#dGibmr2fwhT507Jx.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 The person making the argument Baker sucks because of his conference is the same person jacking his beans over Mason Rudolph...who’s in the same conference. You can’t make this stuff up, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said: The person making the argument Baker sucks because of his conference is the same person jacking his beans over Mason Rudolph...who’s in the same conference. You can’t make this stuff up, folks. Or getting a woody over a guy who completes 56% of his passes in the Mountain West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissyBoyFloyd Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Obviously QBs are just like women. One person can fall in love with one that others think is ugly. It's all about beauty being in eyes of beholder. No one is right or wrong until several years have passed and we see who is still married to whom. Just like with a woman, there is allot more to judge them on than looks or first impressions. Some guys/teams like only the tall sturdy ones vs shorter allusive ones, some are happiest with ones with big breasts (strong arms) vs nice figure (proper form & accuracy), and there are those who want a great face (head & brains) vs those who want a great body (the right measureables). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 6:57 AM, SissyBoyFloyd said: I have been saying that Indys #3 pick is key to the first round of picks. - SBF Me too and we aren't the only ones. I brought it up in a couple threads. This keeps feeling like the most likely scenario to me: Pick #1: If the biggest reason Dorsey was hired is to get the QB position right in the draft, why would he kick the pick of the litter at QB off our doorstep at #1 for a RB (especially in a draft much deeper at RB than it is at potential franchise QBs)? Not only that but there's a very good chance the early run on QBs pushes him right on our door step at #4 anyway. Pick #2: As soon as Cleveland took the 1st QB off the board (and it's conceivable that QB might not even be the Giants' favorite QB) - why would they kick their pick of the litter at QB off their door step for a RB? The timing couldn't be any better for them to draft their QB of the future. Pick #3: A decreasing supply for a huge demand does what? Creates enough desperation for some competition for a trade-up for Indy's 3rd pick among the following teams: Denver at pick #5; NY Jets at pick #6; Miami Dolphins at pick #11; Arizona Cardinals at pick #15; Buffalo Bills at picks #21 and #22; Jacksonville at #29. I'd love to promote this NFL version of Wrestlemania with "If Elway ain't cryin - you ain't tryin!" Pick #4: Cleveland can draft Barkley or whoever they want. - Flugel Ideally the Brown's should quickly deal their 4th pick with their late 2nd for it. Then if want Mayfly over Darnold or whoever, they can take Barkley/Fitz/Chubb at one, or still take qb at one and trade three on draft day to highest bidder getting a boatload more picks or stock up for next year's draft. - SBF We have 5 picks in the first 2 rounds and the very 1st pick of the 3rd round on a team lacking play makers and consistency at WR, CB, TE, S and RBs not named Duke; so I'd keep all our picks (except 1 of the 2nd rounders we might lose on a veteran FA QB). That said, the time may be perfect to get ideal exchange value for Josh Gordon at the draft (possibly adding Corey Coleman to that deal). Hear me out... We also have enough money to lasso the yes price tag of FA Pro Bowl WR Jarvis Landry. It isn't like we've gotten more than 5 games in a season out of Gordon since 2013 (and that's been his best case scenario). As much as I liked where he got himself to last year - he could bring us some currency. - Flugel I have been reading that Rudolph is sort of a one trick pony. He has a great talent for looking, finding, and hitting the long pass. But is not so good at throwing the out patterns, which is a must in nfl. - SBF Good point. That all worked against the pass defenses or the lack thereof in his conference. It may even work as temporarily as it worked for Derek Anderson in the NFL. Sooner or later, if you have too many deficiencies in your short game - those out patterns and tight windows of NFL red zones are going to confine you to backup duty at best. - Flugel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 hours ago, SissyBoyFloyd said: Obviously QBs are just like women. One person can fall in love with one that others think is ugly. It's all about beauty being in eyes of beholder. No one is right or wrong until several years have passed and we see who is still married to whom. Just like with a woman, there is allot more to judge them on than looks or first impressions. Some guys/teams like only the tall sturdy ones vs shorter allusive ones, some are happiest with ones with big breasts (strong arms) vs nice figure (proper form & accuracy), and there are those who want a great face (head & brains) vs those who want a great body (the right measureables). Good analogy. And the ones that look better with the more beer we drink haven't played for the Browns in the last couple decades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 23 hours ago, Westside Steve said: Hard to disagree with flugel on just about anything. I guess if there was a gun to my head I would take Rosen or Darnold. But I would not be the slightest bit unhappy if they took Mayfield especially at number 4. It really is hard not to like the kid. As far as pre-draft interviews, seriously, who cares? Unless a kid came out and said man I want to play for the Browns even if they trade down to the second round to get me. Everybody wants to be picked high and everybody wants to take that team to the promised land. And there's no reason to believe that he's a head case. I really liked Johnny but he had serious mental problems, that had nothing to do with what conference he played in or how tall he was. Plus, for what it's worth, Bob Stoops loves the kid. Grabbing his pecker towards the opponent? Good. We could use a little bit of the ghost of Chris gardocki. WSS LMAO. I'm with you. We could use a little bit of pecker-grabbing in Cleveland! Wait a second.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said: LMAO. I'm with you. We could use a little bit of pecker-grabbing in Cleveland! Wait a second.... Not to worry, you'll see more than a little bit of that in the Barkley threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 17 hours ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said: The person making the argument Baker sucks because of his conference is the same person jacking his beans over Mason Rudolph...who’s in the same conference. You can’t make this stuff up, folks. You REALLY pay very little attention to what is typed on here.....and what you read....or apparently do not read. I assume you are talking about me because I have noted in the past that Mason Rudolph was "in the mix" in terms of QBs who may become successful in the pros. But....do you remember my #1 reservation about him? If you bothered to open up your squinty little eyes....you would have known that I repeatedly have said the biggest concern for him is his Big 12 roots. So....you are either purposely obtuse....or reckless in your comments because you make them based on nothing that has a basis in reality....or you are just stupid. So...which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Flugel said: Not to worry, you'll see more than a little bit of that in the Barkley threads. That's way beyond pecker-grabbing. PoG is in full sword-swallowing mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 On 2/8/2018 at 9:38 PM, hoorta said: OK, Mo- what don't you like about Baker. I'll listen. BIG 12 6'0 tall spread offense already tried 6'0 tall QB Heisman Jinx overrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, 7moses7 said: BIG 12 Every Big 12 qb will fail? Dalton is at least above average. 6'0 tall So is Drew Brees, Russell Wilson even shorter. spread offense Like Goff ran? already tried 6'0 tall QB Mayfield ≠ Manziel. About the only thing they have in common. Dorsey: height not an issue with Mayfield. Heisman Jinx Since 2008 (can't count Mayfield and Jackson yet) there have only been 2 busts- Manziel and Griffin, not as much a jinx as in the past. overrated Depends who you talk to... He's moving up the draft boards fast. Walter Football now has us taking Baker at #4. LOL, you want an omen? Mayfield weighs 216. Cleveland Area Code = 216. PS Mayfield has one thing going for him that none of the other top 5 prospects have- and Bill Parcells used it as one of his top predictors of QB success in the NFL- four year starter. Can't remember the link to advanced metrics I saw- and Baker comes out #1 in that regard, the only other QB that's close is Sam Darnold. And if we take Sam instead, I wouldn't be heartbroken unlike Po who will be devastated if we don't draft his man-crush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7moses7 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 The one thing that comes to mind on Mayfield 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 hours ago, hoorta said: PS Mayfield has one thing going for him that none of the other top 5 prospects have- and Bill Parcells used it as one of his top predictors of QB success in the NFL- four year starter. Can't remember the link to advanced metrics I saw- and Baker comes out #1 in that regard, the only other QB that's close is Sam Darnold. And if we take Sam instead, I wouldn't be heartbroken unlike Po who will be devastated if we don't draft his man-crush. I'm going to laugh my butt off when the Browns take a QB at #1 and when they are on the clock at #4 they take.... someone not named Saquon Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Flugs, buddy... you're about the last person I expected to get caught in the Mayfield trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 54 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Flugs, buddy... you're about the last person I expected to get caught in the Mayfield trap. I'll speak up- you think he's a one read wonder, and is too short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 minute ago, hoorta said: I'll speak up- you think he's a one read wonder, and is too short? If you read my quick rundown on him from the Bedlam game you'd known my concerns. But those two are a part of it, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: If you read my quick rundown on him from the Bedlam game you'd known my concerns. But those two are a part of it, yes. watching bakers film breakdown on dawgsbynature, I get a clearer picture of your concerns from the Georgia game 2nd half. widen the nfl hashes. D's keeping him in the pocket to fight threw windows & reads..Step forward to senior bowl..a few got knocked down from under center & he has not learned from Wilson nor Brees that he may have to drop deeper in pocket to open small windows..My hope is Rosen is not a duche.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 44 minutes ago, gumby73 said: watching bakers film breakdown on dawgsbynature, I get a clearer picture of your concerns from the Georgia game 2nd half. widen the nfl hashes. D's keeping him in the pocket to fight threw windows & reads..Step forward to senior bowl..a few got knocked down from under center & he has not learned from Wilson nor Brees that he may have to drop deeper in pocket to open small windows..My hope is Rosen is not a duche.. Didn't DBN say that Baker is far superior to Johnny.... and I'm pretty sure that clown said Manziel was a franchise QB. So........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Didn't DBN say that Baker is far superior to Johnny.... and I'm pretty sure that clown said Manziel was a franchise QB. So........ learned from a old coach long ago..form your own opinion..turn them asshats volume off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 Baker's the real deal. Will be an absolute beast in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 hours ago, stillmotion said: Baker's the real deal. Will be an absolute beast in the NFL unless the Browns pick him. FIFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted February 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 14 hours ago, tiamat63 said: Flugs, buddy... you're about the last person I expected to get caught in the Mayfield trap. And you have EARNED my respect for your research in here big time. I know he's polarizing and nobody's going to change your mind about the red flags you see. I'm just going to tell you where I'm coming from. I have him tied with Darnold-DucknobodyblockedBosaagain as my fave. With Mayfield, Stoops explained how impressive walking onto to 2 different programs and starting at both was. He also explained in 2013, Trevor Knight became the starter late and lit up Alabama like a Christmas Tree in their Bowl game with 45 points so that wasn't an easy task in 2015 to beat him out. His TD:INT ratios in 3 years were: 36:7 w/68.1 cmp% + 40:8 w/70.9 cmp% + 43:6 w/70.5 cmp%. Along with the winning percentage and ridiculous points per game average - there's quite a bit to like about this leader. I never saw him as another Manziel in terms of running the ball. He never rushed for over 1400 yards in 1 season like Manziel did. His most yards rushing in 13 games was his 1st year at OU with 405 yds in 13 game followed by 177 in 13 games a year later followed by 311 in 14 games in 2017. He's elusive because of his agility, pre-snap read/smarts and pocket presence. I don't see him threatening contain on the perimeter in the NFL; but I'm confident he will remain efficient at picking his opportunity to run when/where he has to. Beyond the Big 12 schedule, beating Ohio State at Ohio State and scoring 48 points on UGA should have shown people he wasn't exclusively wonderful to the Big 12. Darnold wasn't able to beat Ohio State on a neutral field. On the other hand, he was able to beat the Big 10 Champion PSU Team that beat Ohio State in 2016 and it was an incredible performance doing so from Darnold. As you've noted about the QBs this year - they could all improve their play action fakes (Mayfield and Darnold included). The good news is that IS a very doable coach him up thing at the next level. The guy I think Mayfield is a lot alike is another Texas born guy Drew Brees (aside from the same height). If anyone remembers, Brees didn't emerge as a Pro Bowl QB until his 4th year (same year SD drafted a QB 1st overall). That took time and some degree of compromise by his NFL team. College system of play was one of the BIG question marks and putting Brees up under Center way more often than Purdue did. Well, in 2004 - SD drafted a Purdue Center named Nick Hartwick; and they ran a lot more shotgun formations if memory served me right. This helped Brees make easier pre-snap reads and it all clicked. Love takes time though so we gotta give Mayfield longer than a sip of coffee here. I'll be the first to tell you I wasn't patient with giving Kizer all the starts we gave him though. That said, he was a middle of round 2 prospect with accuracy issues that reared their ugly head in red zones - not to be confused with a guy that will be prioritized at #1 or #4 hopefully. Another intangible I like is does the guy elevate everyone's game? RBs like Mixon and Perine had intriguing enough performances to excite NFL teams. Perine had a day over 300 yards 1 year later both Anderson and Sermon averaged over 6 yard a carry while the lesser used Adams averaged over 9.2ypc. Anderson rushed for 201 yards and 2 TDs vrs UGA on 26 carries. Meanwhile, he helped produced a Biletnikoff Award Winner from their WR Corps in DeDe Westbrook in 2016. People that aren't sold on Mayfield might ask me if it wasn't the other way around and if I'm getting myself all excited about the next Gino Toretta... You can have talented surroundings but what does it mean if you can't bring it out of them. For example, why does Robert Woods have to move to LA to look like an unstoppable WR? Because he had a better passer throwing him open or hitting him in stride or just being on the same page far more often than Tyrod Taylor could. Chris Hogan also looked way better when he moved out of Buffalo. Gumby brought up the Senior Bowl Mayfield's struggles and I chalk all that up to what staff (Elway's/Denver) Coached the side he was on and why they felt compelled to manipulate his results. It's easy to do that from the personnel groupings to the play calling. They also wanted to see Josh Allen about-face his very forgettable 1st half and they did. When Mayock (who attended every practice) shows up with a lot of questions about Mayfield heading into the week and leaves Mobile concluding he is a solid 1st round QB; I'll value that way more what Denver's staff wanted Mayfield to look like to the NFL teams (they are competing with for a QB in the 1st 5 picks of the draft). In the end, every one of the humans trying to be a first round QB have some concerns teams will have to research further. I don't think Mayfield has any show stoppers. I love his accuracy, football smarts, results, and leadership intangible. I can't make up my mind between him and Darnold so I'm glad I don't have to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 On 2/10/2018 at 11:56 AM, The Gipper said: You REALLY pay very little attention to what is typed on here.....and what you read....or apparently do not read. I assume you are talking about me because I have noted in the past that Mason Rudolph was "in the mix" in terms of QBs who may become successful in the pros. But....do you remember my #1 reservation about him? If you bothered to open up your squinty little eyes....you would have known that I repeatedly have said the biggest concern for him is his Big 12 roots. So....you are either purposely obtuse....or reckless in your comments because you make them based on nothing that has a basis in reality....or you are just stupid. So...which is it? My comments are... you don’t like Baker because of Big 12, but like another Big 12 guy. Take from that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 My concern with Mayfield is: he threw so much of the time to wide open wr's, behind arguably the best offensive line in football, and often had 5/7 seconds to throw. In a spread offense. How does that translate to the NFL ? I don't know. The qb is going to be a tough one for every team out there. Whoever the Browns draft, I honestly believe those picks will be brilliant. for a welcome desperately needed CHANGE from the years past. As long as they draft Allen with the first pick. LOL LOL LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: My concern with Mayfield is: he threw so much of the time to wide open wr's, behind arguably the best offensive line in football, and often had 5/7 seconds to throw. In a spread offense. How does that translate to the NFL ? I don't know. The qb is going to be a tough one for every team out there. Whoever the Browns draft, I honestly believe those picks will be brilliant. for a welcome desperately needed CHANGE from the years past. As long as they draft Allen with the first pick. LOL LOL LOL As I said Cal- accuracy is accuracy- whether the guy is wide open, or has NFL level coverage on him. WR is running a crossing pattern- and the ball is exactly where it should be. None of the Deshone behind him, over his head, in the dirt. BTW- when he didn't have all day to throw- he's still great- did ok in that regard against OSU- and I'm not talking the Oklahoma variety. https://www.diehards.com/oklahoma/baker-mayfield-pressure-ohio-state-oklahoma EDIT: found the link to his advanced stats in another thread- crazy accurate to all areas of the field, plus they expounded on his entire season when he had pressure in his face. The Ohio State game wasn't an aberration. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/2/8/16953726/krupkas-baker-mayfield-film-room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.