Darnold at #1?

[Ashtabula]

10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

In a scripted Pro Day with familiar receivers there should be few misses... and I'm not talking about the ball hitting the ground. Even before the rain I often saw WRs having to adjust their speed or angle... that's a "miss". I might be being overly critical here tho as I heard nothing about how much wind there was... which any QB will tell you is a much bigger factor than rain.

How quiet a QB's feet are varies... for some, even some good ones, bouncing helps their rhythm and movement, but hopping when you land at the end of a drop or hopping to reset when you go from a middle primary to a swingpass checkdown? Bad juju there.... FIxable? Maybe, but given the near absence of him taking snaps under center, it would seem to me that he's just learned how to do it wrong... and that's troubling.

 

Go check on who he threw to at the pro day.

He only had one reciever available.  Stephen Mitchell jr.  Who is projected as a late round/fa pickup at best.  His #1 target Deontay Barnett tore his hamstrings and did not catch.  He had a former SC basketball player trying out, 70% Ronald Jones, who couldn't  run full speed, Travis Wilson who used to be the QB for Utah and walk-on players graduating.   He did not have his main guy to throw to at the pro day.  I am surprised not many people talked about the fact that he only had one true receiver that day. 

[7moses7]

Scripted pro day doesn’t matter who the receivers were , they spent days preparing for this workout so they had plenty of time to practice together . Darnold should have stayed in school 1 more year . If Allen has improved his foot work to fix accuracy issues then 1 year  learning from Todd Haley will be the way to go. If Allen performs better than Darnold at his pro day the Browns will have a tough decision to make.

[RoyceRolls]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:42 PM, PoeticG said:

I'm right there with you on this except for the order... Barkley 1 - QB 4. 

Once you've taken Barkley off the board the Giants will be more willing to trade back to 4, knowing they can still get a good QB to back up Eli there or add the G Nelson at less a premium at #4. But, in order for NY to switch with the Browns we'll have to take Barkley out of the equation. 

The giants aren’t drafting Barkley.  Taking a RB that high is stupid, but passing up a draft package like the one the Jets offered (assuming they tried to move up to 2) to draft a RB is pure 100%, uncut Retardation. 

[SD_Tom]

5 hours ago, Ashtabula said:

Go check on who he threw to at the pro day.

He only had one reciever available.  Stephen Mitchell jr.  Who is projected as a late round/fa pickup at best.  His #1 target Deontay Barnett tore his hamstrings and did not catch.  He had a former SC basketball player trying out, 70% Ronald Jones, who couldn't  run full speed, Travis Wilson who used to be the QB for Utah and walk-on players graduating.   He did not have his main guy to throw to at the pro day.  I am surprised not many people talked about the fact that he only had one true receiver that day. 

Really wish he'd  thrown at the combine to show how he looked side by side with all the others.  To see how he looked with different WR who may or may not run great routes would've been nice. 

 

[Mark O]

2 hours ago, RoyceRolls said:

The giants aren’t drafting Barkley.  Taking a RB that high is stupid, but passing up a draft package like the one the Jets offered (assuming they tried to move up to 2) to draft a RB is pure 100%, uncut Retardation. 

Unless they believe that they have a QB of the future in Davis Webb, and that Eli could play for 3 or so more years, and that with Eli and OBJ back and a better o line, they're just a RB away from a really good offense and a contending team.

I could see it happening.

[LondonBrown]

What's the point of Darnold staying in school another year to "improve", he will receive more detailed and persistent coaching at the NFL level

[Westside Steve]

44 minutes ago, LondonBrown said:

What's the point of Darnold staying in school another year to "improve", he will receive more detailed and persistent coaching at the NFL level

Without running the risk of a career-ending injury.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

7 hours ago, Ashtabula said:

Go check on who he threw to at the pro day.

He only had one reciever available.  Stephen Mitchell jr.  Who is projected as a late round/fa pickup at best.  His #1 target Deontay Barnett tore his hamstrings and did not catch.  He had a former SC basketball player trying out, 70% Ronald Jones, who couldn't  run full speed, Travis Wilson who used to be the QB for Utah and walk-on players graduating.   He did not have his main guy to throw to at the pro day.  I am surprised not many people talked about the fact that he only had one true receiver that day. 

So USC had only one good WR in 2018? Where are all the guys who love them some Darnold?

2 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Really wish he'd  thrown at the combine to show how he looked side by side with all the others.  To see how he looked with different WR who may or may not run great routes would've been nice.

Everything I saw yesterday says that was a comparison Sam wanted no part of...

 

[jiggins7919]

I think everyone is crazy who thinks Darnold should go #1.  There's no way to satisfactorily explain his turnovers and why they'd somehow get better.  He throws into double and triple coverage ALL OF THE TIME.  He's a "playmaker" at heart, which means he holds onto the ball too long, doesn't check down fast enough, and will take too many hits.  The easy pick would be Rosen, but he has injury concerns, which removes him from the equation (shoulder + concussions = no, no, no, no).  That leaves Baker Mayfield.  He's perfect for us, and I'll never forgive our team for screwing this up if they take somebody else.  

If we take Josh Allen I'm officially done. 

[SD_Tom]

Rosen's injuries are blown way out of proportion. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gojoebruin.com/2018/03/01/nfl-combine-injury-excuses-ucla-josh-rosen-need-to-stop/amp/

 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

So USC had only one good WR in 2018? Where are all the guys who love them some Darnold?

Everything I saw yesterday says that was a comparison Sam wanted no part of...

 

Deontay Burnett.   It is possible that the Browns could nab him late 2d, early 3rd round.  

[stillmotion]

D'arnold isn't near as good as Rosen or even Mayfield. I'm not sold on this one bit. But if we pick him, i'll for damn sure pull for him. He might be a better Prospect but that doesn't always translate to being a better NFL QB. See Blake Bortles.

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

Rosen's injuries are blown way out of proportion. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gojoebruin.com/2018/03/01/nfl-combine-injury-excuses-ucla-josh-rosen-need-to-stop/amp/

 

I read the article. You just can't poo-poo concussions like that guy did. They leave you more prone to the next one. He's not going to get hit in the NFL? Dream on. The other injuries you can write off. With Rosen's background- you can almost bet he suffers a few more concussions in the NFL- he'll prematurely call it a career before his brain gets permanently scrambled. 

[hoorta]

37 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

D'arnold isn't near as good as Rosen or even Mayfield. I'm not sold on this one bit. But if we pick him, i'll for damn sure pull for him. He might be a better Prospect but that doesn't always translate to being a better NFL QB. See Blake Bortles.

I'll trust Dorsey & Company to make the call on the qb. As Josh Allen said after his pro day- their jobs depend on making the right choice. Does not apply to us fans.   

[SD_Tom]

45 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I read the article. You just can't poo-poo concussions like that guy did. They leave you more prone to the next one. He's not going to get hit in the NFL? Dream on. The other injuries you can write off. With Rosen's background- you can almost bet he suffers a few more concussions in the NFL- he'll prematurely call it a career before his brain gets permanently scrambled. 

I'm sure his medicals will tell teams what they need to know. 

Damn shame they didn't have any type of line or running game.

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

1. I read the article. You just can't poo-poo concussions like that guy did. They leave you more prone to the next one.
2. He's not going to get hit in the NFL? Dream on. The other injuries you can write off.
3. With Rosen's background- you can almost bet he suffers a few more concussions in the NFL- he'll prematurely call it a career before his brain gets permanently scrambled. 

1. References?
2. The point of the article is that hits can cause concussions. So what in you view makes Rosen more likely to be hit as a Pro?
3. So basically you want a kid who is willing to go punchdrunk? It may happen, but to use this as a criteria??? Football is a sport of collisions. If you are in enough collisions, then sooner or later you will be concussed.

I've had 4... earned everyone of them except the one that knocked me out cold. That one I was sitting stopped at a traffic light when a drunk doing 55 tried to put the rear bumper of my '76 Chevy Monza into my rear seat.

 

[hoorta]

47 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

1. References?
2. The point of the article is that hits can cause concussions. So what in you view makes Rosen more likely to be hit as a Pro?
3. So basically you want a kid who is willing to go punchdrunk? It may happen, but to use this as a criteria??? Football is a sport of collisions. If you are in enough collisions, then sooner or later you will be concussed.

I've had 4... earned everyone of them except the one that knocked me out cold. That one I was sitting stopped at a traffic light when a drunk doing 55 tried to put the rear bumper of my '76 Chevy Monza into my rear seat.

 

1) I was referring to the link where the guy was minimizing Rosen's injury history. You know darn well highly likely each concussion will take a longer recovery time. I'm not about to Google around 10 medical articles I know are out there to prove my point 

2) Rosen WILL get hit multiple times as a pro.  The season is longer, and the defensive guys are generally bigger and faster. You know the equation. force = mass X acceleration.  Worries me, and a bunch of others.   Fair enough? 

3) Exact opposite, if I get your drift- he'll retire rather than risk permanent brain injury. There have been several lesser guys who have called it a career after a couple concussions. It's not just head injuries- blown out knees, Achilles tears, fractured ribs, lisfrank feet, about any high impact injury you care to name.  How much damage to your body you willing to put up with?  Will Rosen be willing to deal with that? According to the interview snippet I saw it seems he's willing. We'll see.    

 

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'll trust Dorsey & Company to make the call on the qb. As Josh Allen said after his pro day- their jobs depend on making the right choice. Does not apply to us fans.   

What?!! I would lose my job as a premier couch potato madly typing away opinions to piss people off!!!!

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I've had 4... earned everyone of them except the one that knocked me out cold. That one I was sitting stopped at a traffic light when a drunk doing 55 tried to put the rear bumper of my '76 Chevy Monza into my rear seat.

Did you have head rests on that thing? A friend of mine was killed that very same way because his car didn't have head rests and it broke his neck. You are lucky to be here.

[mohican]

I have two issues with Sam Darnold,  and they may be small in the grand scheme

1. His game agaist OSU was ....bad

2. he looks like Wreck it Ralph

[7moses7]

3. New cover boy for Mad Magazine 

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, mohican said:

I have two issues with Sam Darnold,  and they may be small in the grand scheme

1. His game agaist OSU was ....bad

2. he looks like Wreck it Ralph

Yeah, Sam does sort of have a goofy look, but I won't hold that against him. Some guys are even fretting over that slightly reddish hair. 

Regarding the OSU game, I like to bring up the playoff game long ago where Lawrence Taylor and his pals made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow. 

It was one game, and I can't remember the stats how many times Sam got hit or hurried, it was a crazy high number.

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, Sam does sort of have a goofy look, but I won't hold that against him. Some guys are even fretting over that slightly reddish hair. 

Regarding the OSU game, I like to bring up the playoff game long ago where Lawrence Taylor and his pals made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow. 

It was one game, and I can't remember the stats how many times Sam got hit or hurried, it was a crazy high number.

1. Gingers have no souls, which might be a positive for a QB.

2. I'm not sure there is a QB alive who would have looked good against Ohio State in that game. 

[Tour2ma]

14 hours ago, hoorta said:

1) You know darn well highly likely each concussion will take a longer recovery time. I'm not about to Google around 10 medical articles I know are out there to prove my point 

2) Rosen WILL get hit multiple times as a pro.  The season is longer, and the defensive guys are generally bigger and faster. You know the equation. force = mass X acceleration.  Worries me, and a bunch of others.   Fair enough? 

3) Exact opposite, if I get your drift- he'll retire rather than risk permanent brain injury. There have been several lesser guys who have called it a career after a couple concussions. It's not just head injuries- blown out knees, Achilles tears, fractured ribs, lisfrank feet, about any high impact injury you care to name.  How much damage to your body you willing to put up with?  Will Rosen be willing to deal with that? According to the interview snippet I saw it seems he's willing. We'll see.   

1. Point is I have done the research and I know your statement is only true to a point beyond which the science is not set.
2. You did not answer the question... Which was, why do you think Josh, the QB who runs the least of the top four, will suffer more hard hits?
3. Yup... we won't know. He might go Chris Borland on us, but then he's not playing MLB.

 

[Tour2ma]

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Did you have head rests on that thing? A friend of mine was killed that very same way because his car didn't have head rests and it broke his neck. You are lucky to be here.

Yup... very lucky, but not due to a headrest, which the car had, but due to a near empty gas tank. Late nite commute and could not find an open station due to one of those 70's gas shortages so I was limping home on "E". The tank ruptured.

The front anchors of the bucket seat pulled out of the floor/chasis. The back of the driver's seat broke on the frame of the back bench seat. Every window save the front and passenger door blew out/in.

Last thing I remember was a flash of headlights in the rearview mirror. Next thing was being "awakened" on the other side of a 5 lane intersection. Still no idea what I might have hit my head on unless it was the steering wheel, but my thrust should have been backwards. A forehead lac said I hit something.

Found out two years later there was a third car that was next to me at the light that was sideswiped by the drunk that hit me.

[hoorta]

 

9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Yup... very lucky, but not due to a headrest, which the car had, but due to a near empty gas tank. Late nite commute and could not find an open station due to one of those 70's gas shortages so I was limping home on "E". The tank ruptured.

The front anchors of the bucket seat pulled out of the floor/chasis. The back of the driver's seat broke on the frame of the back bench seat. Every window save the front and passenger door blew out/in.

Last thing I remember was a flash of headlights in the rearview mirror. Next thing was being "awakened" on the other side of a 5 lane intersection. Still no idea what I might have hit my head on unless it was the steering wheel, but my thrust should have been backwards. A forehead lac said I hit something.

Found out two years later there was a third car that was next to me at the light that was sideswiped by the drunk that hit me.

I think we're all glad that you're still with us after that one.  I had one- but not nearly as bad on a snowy day up in Cleveland- the guy who hit me only caved in around a foot of the trunk and rear bumper. No head rest on the '63 comet I was driving, I still remember seeing out the back window just fine- without the rear view mirror.  

[hoorta]

26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

1. Point is I have done the research and I know your statement is only true to a point beyond which the science is not set.
2. You did not answer the question... Which was, why do you think Josh, the QB who runs the least of the top four, will suffer more hard hits?
3. Yup... we won't know. He might go Chris Borland on us, but then he's not playing MLB.

 

2) You're sort of answering your own question. Exactly because he runs the least- and is the least mobile of the big 4 (yeah I know about the 40 times) he's going to be more prone to getting clobbered in the pocket. It's not the ones you see coming- it's the ones you don't. Joe won't be there anymore to protect his blind side.    

[Tour2ma]

30 minutes ago, hoorta said:

2) You're sort of answering your own question. Exactly because he runs the least- and is the least mobile of the big 4 (yeah I know about the 40 times) he's going to be more prone to getting clobbered in the pocket. It's not the ones you see coming- it's the ones you don't. Joe won't be there anymore to protect his blind side.    

So now running QBs get hit less?

And it's not just 40 times... which are not a good measure of mobility. The jumps are better measures of escapability (acceleration). Shuttles and 3-cones are better measures of collision avoidance (agility).

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

So now running QBs get hit less?

And it's not just 40 times... which are not a good measure of mobility. The jumps are better measures of escapability (acceleration). Shuttles and 3-cones are better measures of collision avoidance (agility).

No they get hit more, but not hit hard if they've learned to slide or run out of bounds first. I haven't forgotten RG Knee. Wentz got put out for the season on a run. Sam Bradford's knee has collapsed when the breeze of defender running by him and missing put him out.

It's a question if you think Rosen's dingers are isolated instances- or a foreshadowing of things to come. I hope it's the former, but seriously afraid of the latter. Remember Hardly played Montario Hardesty who had injury concerns coming out? Then you have guys like Anthony Munoz and Joe Thomas who had ACLs in college and went on to HOF careers.     But AFAIK, none of the other QB prospects have had concussions. The FO consulting with the Medical team will make the call on Josh. 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Yup... very lucky, but not due to a headrest, which the car had, but due to a near empty gas tank. Late nite commute and could not find an open station due to one of those 70's gas shortages so I was limping home on "E". The tank ruptured.

The front anchors of the bucket seat pulled out of the floor/chasis. The back of the driver's seat broke on the frame of the back bench seat. Every window save the front and passenger door blew out/in.

Last thing I remember was a flash of headlights in the rearview mirror. Next thing was being "awakened" on the other side of a 5 lane intersection. Still no idea what I might have hit my head on unless it was the steering wheel, but my thrust should have been backwards. A forehead lac said I hit something.

Found out two years later there was a third car that was next to me at the light that was sideswiped by the drunk that hit me.

I knew it had to be bad. My friend Lou's small daughter survived with just bruises and a few cuts because her head went into the seat itself. The guy was so drunk (didn't get hurt at all) he woke up in jail not knowing he had even been driving. He was a Ft. Carson soldier (Lou was former Navy UDT) and was so remorseful that Lou's wife asked for him not to be incarcerated. The judge gave him a very strict 10 year probation which I think included no drinking whatsoever. The shame of it was that his wife had lost her 1st husband in Vietnam, so she was twice widowed by age 30. Lou's ashes were scattered by his brother on top of Long's Peak in Rocky M. N. P. The world lost a great, hilarious Indian Shaman imitator. He would make you roll over in stitches with a whole litany of "sayings" in his "India" accent. Never heard the same one twice. He was a marathoner and he would sit cross-legged like Buddha with his hands forming circles with his fingers on his knees which made it even funnier.