ballpeen Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil. We are Johnny Football. Embrace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil. We are Johnny Football. Embrace it. I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohican Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win. it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in. Mik - this is a great question. Let the annual cyber masturbation about the best qb in the draft begin! (not a knock at you) If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride. I kind of felt like this past week was his "one last chance" and was hoping for the hook during the Atl game.....specially, right after Hoyer got creamed by Cushing.... I think Pettine showed great patience and fairness with BH and gave him EVERY chance to play and show his stuff....especially considering ist round pick Mr. Johnny Football was sitting on the bench.....a LOT of teams would've played JFF sooner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what? If they saddle that pony, they're gonna have to ride it.......... He will play the rest of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer.... I think you've missed the point. Hoorta didn't say Manziel won't be good because he didn't go #1 overall. He simply pointed out that being a superstar in college doesn't mean you'll be a superstar in the NFL. Nice try though, buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 If they saddle that pony, they're gonna have to ride it.......... He will play the rest of the year. Yup... barring injury, if the kid gets the keys, then barring injury, its his car for at least the balance of 2014... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there. He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile. Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement. He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet Johnny has very good field awareness when he runs, the way he switched the ball on his TD run before contact and covered in a fast motion was one example, but there will be mistakes and he will get hit. I wouldn't compare him to lesean McCoy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer.... You totally missed my point Jim. Did I say anything in that post where I thought Manziel couldn't be a good, or even great pro qb? Don't think so. GMs thought he was a riskier pick than Anderw Luck- that's all. Where you get drafted does indeed depend on how many of those scout boxes get checked off. Want to argue otherwise? Now that's really bullshit. Apparently Brady had about as many checked off as Spurgon Wynn. Tony Romo? Even less. Hells bells, drafting isn't an exact science, want to look up how many teams passed on Joe Montana? Got drafted in the same round as our dear Colt McCoy, and Russell Wilson. Hmmm- seems Montana and McCoy fell because of concerns over arm strength, and Wilson fell because of his height. So yes, GMs are rethinking their viewpoints on how tall you have to be to succeed in the NFL, exactly because of how Wilson is playing. I can go on- Thuman Thomas lasted until the second round because of injury concerns- so did Montario Hardesty. Who guessed right? BTW it's far from a done deal Hoyer is gone after this year, and you're probably old enough to realize that. Now if Brian wants to pout that he got demoted- yes he's gone. If he's willing to accept a long term backup deal at a reasonable price, it's an ideal situation for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 hoorta-I see you ventured over here. LOL! My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. That is a GM's recipe for disaster for the team and the player. Let BH finish out the season and if he screws the pooch make it clear from day one next year that JF is the new QB and give him all the reps with a good long stint in the position. If Brian does well and the team finishes reasonably, then he keeps his job and the Browns have a QB. To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Too bad Baryshnikov and Nureyev are over the hill... YOu win today. My god, a Baryshnikov call out on a Cleveland Browns football forum....fuck my ass running. Fuck my ass so hard running that was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 No drafting a QB next year either, least not with our 1st two picks. Any QB worth drafting in the 1st round next year is gonna be long gone by the time we pick anyway so it's a moot point. If Hoyer has to go and Johnny shows progress but not there yet...than let's get a vet. Somebody that comes in here to run the team but is explicitly tasked with teaching Manziel. That's kind of what I wanted out of Hoyer...give a good 3 year deal where he'll probably start at least 2 years than if things go well become Johnny's backup. And with the way Manziel plays it would be likely that even in years 3 and 4 Hoyer was gonna get a couple starts a season because Manziel was on the mend. We could have had a nice two QB situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have a feeling this might be more you guys' speed. NSFW, obviously. Wait wut? You had that in your bag but you opened your set with the Johnny song? Dude, you ALWAYS open with the classics....gets the crowd into it early. Noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. ..... To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior. There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance. And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again) He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH.... Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I still think Hoyer starts Sunday...but if he can't get out of the slump, at some point, they will put manziel in, it will be a bit sooner. It's possible that Hoyer has risen to his level of incompetence by pressing too hard, and having things go wrong. He has to stop trying to make huge plays while off balance - he doesn't have the arm to make some of those throws unless he has his feet set, or at least be on the move and on balance. It's odd that he is playing worse with Gordon back. If Gordon can't get his mistakes out of the way, I'd trade him. He should know how to make adjustments on the fly, regardless of his time off. He's been playing hard, but his mental reactions on the field seem to be flustered at times. Agree with the QB assessments up to the balance point. I think his footwork was pretty good again vs. BUF. Will be noting it again this week. On Josh... the thought crossed my mind earlier that some of his big plays last year may have been "against read", but in Wheezy and Campbell he had QBs that chucked it anyway. YOu win today. My god, a Baryshnikov call out on a Cleveland Browns football forum....fuck my ass running. Fuck my ass so hard running that was amazing. Thanks... but it really wasn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 There is no way this move is being made due to fan pressure....not a chance. And there is no way we will make a long term decision on JFF, based only upon the next four games. Not a chance(again) He will get the same consideration Hoyer got, if not more. At least a full season, Id guess. So...next four games, if he gets them, are just an attempt to keep winning and a sure indication that the coach(es) have lost confidence in BH.... Do I sense some fear that JFF isn't gonna be the man you've been ranting about for 8 months now? Lining up the excuses just in case? Not sure about a "full year", but certainly not simply the next four games. If it is to be JM the rest of 2014, then BH is gone and at a minimum I'd expact another vet back-up, FA signing... Grossman is waiting by his phone. As for the excuses... Get real, Mud... the only way JM doesn't succeed is if the Browns fail him... been that way since pick #22 was announced. In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFanatic Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 if you dont want to start manziel you are an idiot. Hes johnny football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 In response to a separate thought train... I think whether or not we draft a QB late will entirely rest upon how highly Shaw is regarded. Yep. And, assuming Hoyer is gone.... then you gotta assume JFF will be #1 next year.....automatically....and without major competition. I doubt we'll sign a "starter type" or draft a QB high enough to be considered serious competition.....so the discussion will turn to "who's the back up?"....shaw or ???? I liked the little we saw of Shaw and do think he's an ideal match for JFF....hope he's doing well.....real well.... If we DON't draft or sign a serious QB candidate, then I guess we'll know what the Browns think of Johnny AND Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 So far I have seen Trent dilfer Steve Young, mike golic, and some ESPN poll of fans, all saying hoyer should start. Personally I don't care, especially about dilfer who has always had some weird thing with us ever since he was on our team. But I just thought it was interesting that all the talking heads are saying hoyer should start. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The national poll was 51% vs 49%......so, Im guessing you'll get a good dose of people who want both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Yep. And, assuming Hoyer is gone.... then you gotta assume JFF will be #1 next year.....automatically....and without major competition. I doubt we'll sign a "starter type" or draft a QB high enough to be considered serious competition.....so the discussion will turn to "who's the back up?"....shaw or ???? I liked the little we saw of Shaw and do think he's an ideal match for JFF....hope he's doing well.....real well.... If we DON't draft or sign a serious QB candidate, then I guess we'll know what the Browns think of Johnny AND Shaw Shaw did look good in what little action we saw. I would feel more comfortable with a veteran backup in case both shit the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 yeah....Im sure there will be a veteran in camp for guidance, if nothing else....lie Tour said, Grossman is on the speed dial....plus, ???? So, saturday is Johnny's birthday.......poll question.....will he be hung over for his first NFL start??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 So far I have seen Trent dilfer Steve Young, mike golic, and some ESPN poll of fans, all saying hoyer should start. Personally I don't care, especially about dilfer who has always had some weird thing with us ever since he was on our team. But I just thought it was interesting that all the talking heads are saying hoyer should start. Thoughts? If its the same poll I heard on kNR today it was 51-49.Also went state by state. Ironically Ohio went with Johnny. Of course as Bill Belichick once said if you start listening to the fans pretty soon you'll be sitting with them. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonLegthigh Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Based on the responses...I won't bother even trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 This ones from last year, but is hilarious....worth the watch if you like to laugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 So far I have seen Trent dilfer Steve Young, mike golic, and some ESPN poll of fans, all saying hoyer should start. Personally I don't care, especially about dilfer who has always had some weird thing with us ever since he was on our team. But I just thought it was interesting that all the talking heads are saying hoyer should start. Thoughts? I noted before that by and large the former players are saying Hoyer and by and large the writers/ talking heads are saying Manziel. Primary reason behind the former player's stance is "the locker room". Primary for the heads is "the story". People who actually watch and follow the Browns are ready for a change. They know how exceptional the defense has been this season and understand the strength of the schedule has played a factor. The talking heads just regurgitate each other's baby food. How many 2014 games are you up to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_brown Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 hoorta-I see you ventured over here. LOL! My one and only concern is that a 4 game trial after almost no 1's practice time is totally unfair to JF, especially considering the schedule. That is a GM's recipe for disaster for the team and the player. Let BH finish out the season and if he screws the pooch make it clear from day one next year that JF is the new QB and give him all the reps with a good long stint in the position. If Brian does well and the team finishes reasonably, then he keeps his job and the Browns have a QB. To get it back for another year because a rook can't produce under the worst 4 game scenario is a foolish concession to fan pressure and certainly a ridiculous way to plan next year's potential drafting of the next Cleveland QB savior. being fair has nothing to do with it....these guys are both pros, they're being paid to play and/or be ready to play.....so manziel hasn't had as much time with the 1's as hoyer has....that's immaterial.....who has the best chance of winning the fucking game, that's what counts...that and at some point it makes corporate sense to see if manziel can cut it or not.....he may not have had as much time with the 1's but he's had time with the playbook and the practice squad...no back up has ever had as much time with the 1's as the starter....but back ups come in and become starters themselves all the time....if i thought hoyer was some how magically going to start playing better than he has of late and could win the game, i'd start him....if, more realistically, i thought hoyer would continue playing about as good/bad as he has, i'd sit him and go with manziel.... there's 4 more games to play in the regular season.....the only thing that matters at this point is who is playing the best at the moment and gives the team the best chance of winning....that's what pettine and company need to decide.....i'm sure both manziel and hoyer think they are the ones that should start.....but give me a fucking break, it's not their decision..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mudfly-not afraid of his long term skills, just afraid of how quickly the Browns have given up on QB's in the past. 4 games in one season to decide whether to draft another as some have suggested here is not good policy. But the Browns have that history. I want him to be given the time to become a great QB. That is hard enough to do in one season as we can see from the other struggling rookies. But 1/4 season would be ridiculous. Some on this board would be quick to desert him if he doesn't do what he did the first possession last Sunday multiple times a game. Yes, I still think he is one special kind of talent. It will show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Cool Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Wait wut? You had that in your bag but you opened your set with the Johnny song? Dude, you ALWAYS open with the classics....gets the crowd into it early. Noob Well, the reason I posted the Johnny song is because it is Cleveland Browns related. Seeing that this is a Cleveland Browns forum, I thought that made the most sense. While I am aware that it is not my greatest work, I do think that there are some chuckles to be had in this little ditty. Hammer and Emmett seemed to think so when they played it this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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