browns52 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 A and? Like anybody should I'd like to know exactly what's going on. Wouldn't you? All we get is bullshit from Tony Grossi or Mary Kay Cabot or somebody's fucking twitter feed. My bottom line is if the kid can play at the NFL level and wants to do so here it's good for the Cleveland Browns and I would like to see that facilitated if possible. If he can't or he doesn't want to then do what we need to do. B. Yes we did we change coaches and front office. You say we didn't change teammates? Well wait and see there. C and it doesn't matter at all to you if it's actually alcohol or petulance? Come on dude. I know drugs, I know alcoholics, & I know assholes and I know guys that are a combination of the three. The levels matter. I'm just curious as to what the inside story is. I don't think that's a ridiculous thing to wonder about. And this isn't exactly a blue ribbon panel here, is a bunch of Browns fans. The most knowledgeable guy on the board probably knows less about the situation then the guy at the team commissary that orders the cream in the coaches coffee. Let alone the guy that fetches it. But just look at this thread Z Man. Half these guys are more concerned with how to fuck with a player they don't like then how to benefit the team. WSS the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 What difference does it make ? Whatever he was doing, he wasn't on the field to support his teammates or for treatment of his alleged concussion. He bailed out at the end of a second season wanting NO part of the hungry steelers team. Doesn't matter where else he was. concussion protocol forbid him from being on the field anyway, so it's really that huge a deal he missed a follow-up medical appt? not physical therapy or typical rehabbing, more like a screening. at year's end, season over, Coach and GM fired, NFL'S protocols not the team's, an irrelevant miss to the game vs the Steelers. was him clapping and cheering from the locker room gonna make the Browns win? ever had a concussion? i've had several--they suck. there's nothing they can do for you, only time heals. just him flying was punishment in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was. and where the fuck do you see any improvement with is guy...he still throws across his body to recievers and still throws mostly offbalance...you dude fit right in with the jackass gm they just fired.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was. Hey I'll make excuses for my guys. You can make excuses for the Shittsburgh Squeelers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 btw, what kind of ngr rule is it that if you have a concussion you can't stand on the sideline in your plain clothes? what possible sense can that make? are they worried about an errant pass smacking a player in the dome as he chats up his teammates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 you can blow your knee out like Jayln Smith but still hobble out on crutches to root for your teammates, but you get a little bell rung and don't let us see your ass on the sideline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 So, if your saying JM should get the same chance that Leaf got and Leaf got cut after 18 games over 2 years, why cant the same happen to Johnny M? Fair point.... And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny. I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. Or...maybe he'll do as well in Dallas as Leaf did?...possible? And Leaf wasnt a lot worse off the field.....no way.....but he had a lot of similarities to Johnny...as in year one when he was reprimanded for not learning the playbook....or how he flew to Las Vegas and partied all night(day before he was introduced) and then showed up to his press conference hungover and disinterested.....or how he missed team and league meetings, blamed teammates and coaches for his failures(Johnny doesnt, but his fans do), and overall, developed a reputation for not working hard or being committed to the team......THAT is what his problems were........ Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??) He later spiraled out of control and ended up in Jail, but that was many years after being out of the league My favorite comparison.....which I made over a year ago.....is Todd Marinovich. And Johnny is exactly in step with THAT stellar career.....22nd overall pick.....rehab at the end of year 1......relapse mid season of year 2.....erratic play through out....CUT after 2 years and only 8 games(see, not unprecedented, as other teams DO it too).....and, of course, out of the league..... And, Id point out that the few teams that cut chase early, were usually right.....Leaf and Marinovich were as bad as they seemed..... Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers. Sorry, I dont buy that at all..........Bowe, Johnny and Gilbert did not play. 30 other FA's, newcomers and draft picks did. I think Coaches just prefer to play the good players and really dont care if they are Vets, rookies or newcomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsnMopar Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The guy didn't even get his plates renewed!!! I don't want this loser running my football team! I say bury him on the bench and let him rot there!!! GO BROWNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 looks like Johnny might have an alibi It's being reported he got an expired tags ticket in Cleveland, down the road from the Browns facility...on the day he was "allegedly" in Vegas. Plot thickens. It is already known that he was at Browns facility Saturday Morning. He flew to Vegas Saturday.. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years. WSS And??? We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise? Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more? Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud .. Not sure that guy exists..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Absolutely... great point... wish I had made it. Would love to see video of Browns players who say they "like" JM, asked if they respect him in a follow up. Definatly not the player who called him a 100% JOKE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Romo and Manziel are very different QB's. Would the Dallas OC have to install and the players have to learn TWO different offenses ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 And??? We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise? Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more? Zombo Yes. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools. I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect? WSS i for one am concerned about that. i think he can win games and also believe he is an upgrade over Shaw, Davis, Devlin, Thigpen, Weeden, etc. as our 3rd string backup QB he's most likely the most talented 3rd stringer in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 And I will preface this as we should preface every discussion: if the reports can be believed... *Everything I referred to is in the public record through press conferences.* First of all the journeyman was playing the best football of his life unfortunately that didn't show up in the win loss column. *True... no one said it'd be easy.* Second, see the disclaimer, Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers. *Mud addressed this.* Third, that was the second PlayBook to learn. And he never played with the first one since they threw in a new offense for Cincinnati. *If changing from going under center to the pistol to run the same play is "a new offense" in JM's eyes, then I rest my case.* Fourth we know what happened. You and I differ on the value of experience vs discipline. Which I'm guessing will remain a sticking point. *Only if we spill the ale..* Finally I believe rookies improve with playing time *Generally? Yes, but it is not a given... and all positions are not equal.* Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??) I had forgotten about the golf caper... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment. time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care. If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs? And?? THAT makes it OK for the starting QB to fly out of town before his teammates get ready to play a rivalry game and skip a treatment meeting? I haven't been following along here real closely, but ... Your are still not defending this guy are you? I mean if it's the alcohol, you cut bait but you hope for the best ... if he's just a petulant shithead you hope he never plays in this league again. We didn't change owners ... we didn't change teammates ... do you think there is anyone left in the organization that trusts this guy? Zombo Short answer, NO. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. MHO is the Browns have had enough of his act. Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny. If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then... But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools. I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect? WSS Steve, we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff regarding Manziel- but the Browns sure as hell do. The guy wasted his first year here, then went to rehab (um Haslam & company know the reason why), and then when handed the keys to the car, promptly gave Pettine the finger, and lied about it. Probably lying about the Vegas junket. If you have some knowledge of alcoholics, you have to know lying to cover their ass is a universal trait. At this point it doesn't matter if Manziel can play meaningful snaps again in the NFL- he's not worth the risk. Now if he manages to clean up his act and become a decent qb for another team, that would be the Browns luck. I'm sure Sashi's analytics are already spinning the risk\reward of keeping Manziel around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then... But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools. I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect? I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP... While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Johnny was not in Vegas, The guy in Vegas was Billy why don't you understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass. He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early. I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid. I think that history/statistics would show that it's a lot easier to find impact players or stars at literally every position than it is to find a franchise QB. It might be an exponential curve as you get to the bottom of the draft too. Occasionally you get a Russell Wilson and once in a life time you get a Tom Brady but not often. But you can find somebody like Jared Allen in the 4th round a lot more often. That's just why I think if Goff is the guy you take him there. "But we don't have an elite pass rush" "We have McCown" don't seem like too good of reasons to pass on him IMO as some seem to think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs? i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB. i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps? what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him? he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example. because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points. because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters? all part of his celebrity and what makes Johnny Manziel Johnny Motha Fukin Football. he's atypical and impractical and does whatever the fuck he wants, don't try to reason it out you'll hurt your head. moxy can't be bought, faked, or learned...it just is. his id (Freud) makes the calls for this maniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Shaw is a better #3 QB than Johnny. And he costs less. To the other question about why he couldn't wait a week to go to vegas. Person: "Hey Johnny you HAVE to come to Vegas this Saturday we're gonna have cocaine and four lokos and strippers" Johnny: "Well you know I got a game to play" Person: "Screw that bro" Johnny: "You're right, I'm too hungover for this shit" Johnny: "Hey guys, I have a concussion - put me in the protocol thanks, can't play" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Shaw sucks...in my opinion. and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Shaw sucks...in my opinion. and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back. He actually cares about the game and isn't in the news with a new selfie video getting drunk every week? Who cares about the 3rd string quarterback. I wouldn't want to deal with all that bullshit anymore just to keep him as a 3rd stringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Fingers Farmer Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The only thing more embarrassing than getting rid of JM in the next few months is keeping him on the team. He'll be nothing but a national joke again and a distraction to the team. If he farts in a public restroom media members will be asking players how they feel about it. The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself. You cut him now to end the circus or cut him after June 1st to spread his money out. In the off chance a team is willing to trade any draft pick for him you jump on it. You do not allow him to fill a roster spot for any player that's willing to put in the time or effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 He really brought this franchise down.....yes.....even lower than before...(and he proves that was even possible)... At least....finally......all the Johnny loving apologists have stopped defending his nonsense.....amazed it took 52 fuck ups over 16 months for them to realize the truth..... And too bad Pettine had to take all the abuse for "baby sitting" and being so mean to Johnny....(and it was a LOT of abuse)...most of those shitheads are quietly elsewhere now....haven't seen one say "wow...I was wrong".....not yet, at least...(Johnny and his boys all seem to have the same lack of class, maturity, etc) But I think we are finally there.....Johnny IS a fuck up extraordinaire and there is no longer any debate about it... So....hopefully there will no longer be any debates 'about him'......could we be so lucky?....... I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly. I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab. Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then? Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again. I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 He actually cares about the game and isn't in the news with a new selfie video getting drunk every week? that's because Shaw sucks and no one would read that story. who cares if the national media is reporting about the Browns 3rd stringer taking selfies and getting drunk anyway? i want the team to win, and JmfM gives the team a better chance to than Shaw does, by far. has Shaw ever scored an NFL TD? great guy off the field but on the field he has to improve just to be ordinary. McCown, Manziel, Davis...when's the last time the Browns went a season without needing at least 3 QBs? when that inevitable moment is upon us, you play Shaw and lose, i'll play JmfM and at least have a chance. 3rd stringers can't distract from the bottom of the roster very easily, and any reporter who tries to make sensationalistic headlines about a backup's backup is a complete fucking hack. ala MKC. all of this drama is while he's viewed as a starter, and dissipates entirely when he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.