Neither have I

[OldBrownsFan]

28 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

9the last war that one could make the case americans gave their lives so that america would stay america, was ww2. And even then ive read compelling as fuk articles that amerixa wouldnt have gotten involved in ww2 if it wouldnt have been for the euro bankers promising the u.s tgat their currency would become the worlds reserve....and when did that happen?

"The 1944 Bretton Woods agreement established a new global monetary system. It replaced the gold standard with the U.S. dollar as the global currency. By so doing, it established America as the dominant power in the world economy. After the agreement was signed, America was the only country with the ability to print dollars. "

 

and there u go, thats what ww2 was about. All the wars since then were polutical wars meant to reinforce a global monetary system imposed by not just the U.S, but the imf, world bank, random euro trash etc,etc. Thos is the whole reason nato countries never had to pay their share and what they did pay was just for show. I mean why not, america was printing monopoly money.

This is where i agree with trump, the euro trash cant expect us to keep footing the bill when they know the dollars days are numbered and they themselves are courting a broader reserve system. This is why american manudacturing MUST come back, if we dont produce tangible capital a day might come when we have to convert american money to something else in order sht like oil, just as an example. If we dont produce tangible goods  this money exchange becomes a headache. We cant be simply a service economy in the event the dollar loses its reserve status. 

i know this got off on a tangent but the point is too important and too few people understand the ramifications to our way of life if we lose access to the credit we now enjoy. And all these wars like vietnam, korea, iraq 1.....were all to keep those countries in line. Its not as noble when u have to look at it thevraw truth. We've been fighting polutical/economic wars since ww2.....those players kneeling arent disrespecting anything even if u consider their act essentially meaningless, which i do.

I agree with you about the need for manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing produces wealth.  I remember Obama mocking the idea of manufacturing jobs returning to the United States:

 

 

[Clevfan4life]

39 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Because patriots fought for our freedoms 

 

sure

[OldBrownsFan]

3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

sure they did

Just be glad they did. 

[Westside Steve]

11 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

sure

Just for the record, because we have argued this point often here before, do you believe that the Civil War was fought basically over slavery? 

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

58 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Because patriots fought for our freedoms doesn't mean those who abuse those freedoms should be applauded.  If the NFL wants to allow this type of protest that is offensive to many NFL fans it is just another reason why ratings continue to slide down for the NFL. I don't understand the distortions you speak of on the right. I could say the same about the liberal media  who side with the kneelers on this issue.

 

Of course you don't understand the distortions. That's the point. And why is it "abusing freedoms" to protest something you disagree with? Not to mention a lot of the outrage seems to come from how the right wing media is interpreting the protests and not necessarily what the stated reason or goal are. 

[tiamat63]

4 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

It's either they don't understand or they don't care. Take your pick. 

Is your world always this black and white?    I fail to see how someone over twice my age stands that rigid in their line of thinking.  After all, you're supposed to be a bit more...seasoned than myself.  

That said I believe Kaep to be a bit of a hypocrit anyway.   The Castro shirt, the socks, saying he'll stand after being released.     The guy is the face of his "cause" but really I think his support of it is what is convenient to him.   BUT, do I believe there are others that have taken up that banner at the NFL level far more vested in a similar cause? Absolutely.  And as I've pointed out those men have a track record of work to improve their own communities.   (Malcolm Jenkins being a prime example) 

Hell, for all the flak I just wrote about Kaep, at least he is on record donating good money to certain charitable foundations not including his own.    

List found here: 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/1/31/16956016/colin-kaepernick-donations-full-list-of-organizations-one-million-dollars

 

Whether or not we agree with the organizations that received money is your own business.    That being said,  the guy has put a large influx of cash into charity.  And before anyone goes off saying it's a drop in the bucket compared to what has or will make, it's still significantly more than anyone here has contributed. 

I'll also ask this - if the man hated America and our veterans, why would he have taken the meeting with Nate Boyer, listened and utilized his guidance if that were so 'absolutely' true?   Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground.   Territory I feel I operate in quite frequently.  

[Clevfan4life]

6 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Just for the record, because we have argued this point often here before, do you believe that the Civil War was fought basically over slavery? 

 

WSS

for the sake of this argument, because we're talking about contemporary America.....im not going back that far. I know the modern world was shaped primarily by ww2. Even tho the U.S likely only got involved because of the promise of reserve status, it's still a good thing we got involved. All wars after that with the exception of Afghanistan.....pure rubbish driven by special interests. So no I do not believe at all that people who died in Vietnam, Korea etc....died for any other purpose than to fulfill the wishes of "schemers". Schemers upset that some people weren't doing as the almighty reserve country told them to do. We look down at Britains colonialist enterprises but don't acknowledge we took up for them after ww2. No human that would be alive today, that served in the military...excluding some ancient ww2 vets still alive......died for "America". They died for scheming politicians. 

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I agree with you about the need for manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing produces wealth.  I remember Obama mocking the idea of manufacturing jobs returning to the United States:

 

 

I'm at the International Manufacturing Trade Show in Chicago right now actually. I'll have to watch that clip later and see how you're most likely misinterpreting or taking it out of context. Maybe

[OldBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I'm at the International Manufacturing Trade Show in Chicago right now actually. I'll have to watch that clip later and see how you're most likely misinterpreting or taking it out of context. Maybe

Speaking of misinterpreting don't let anyone tell you the good economy today is somehow Obama's economy:

5 Reasons Obama Can’t Take Credit for Trump’s Good Economy

"After disappearing from the spotlight for well over a year, former President Obama resurfaced at the University of Illinois on Friday just in time to take credit for the booming economy we’ve seen under President Trump...... I guess in some part Obama does deserve credit for Trump’s economy. The moment he left office things got better."

https://townhall.com/columnists/carljackson/2018/09/10/5-reasons-obama-cant-take-credit-for-trumps-good-economy-n2517586

[Clevfan4life]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I'm at the International Manufacturing Trade Show in Chicago right now actually. I'll have to watch that clip later and see how you're most likely misinterpreting or taking it out of context. Maybe

trust me, one of these guys drinking beers at home on his couch without a penny of exp in any of these fields.....will contradict anything you say. 

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Speaking of misinterpreting don't let anyone tell you the good economy today is somehow Obama's economy:

5 Reasons Obama Can’t Take Credit for Trump’s Good Economy

After disappearing from the spotlight for well over a year, former President Obama resurfaced at the University of Illinois on Friday just in time to take credit for the booming economy we’ve seen under President Trump. 

https://townhall.com/columnists/carljackson/2018/09/10/5-reasons-obama-cant-take-credit-for-trumps-good-economy-n2517586

50/50.   The GDP began rising again under Obama, Trump really helped moved things along.   

Kind of like how Clinton took a lot of credit for what Bush 1 began.    Willie was the fortunate beneficiary of the Internet boom and some smart fiscal sense by Senior.     I'd kill to have a President like that back in office over what we have - (kind of) 

 

edit:  Middle class America is still struggling and shrinking (As it did under Obama and his predecessor) so we can talk about how the Economy is humming along but those benefits have only now begun to, wait for this one, 'trickle down' to the rest of us.    In reality the pay raises some of us are seeing are at least 10+ years behind schedule.  

[OldBrownsFan]

12 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Is your world always this black and white?    I fail to see how someone over twice my age stands that rigid in their line of thinking.  After all, you're supposed to be a bit more...seasoned than myself.  

That said I believe Kaep to be a bit of a hypocrit anyway.   The Castro shirt, the socks, saying he'll stand after being released.     The guy is the face of his "cause" but really I think his support of it is what is convenient to him.   BUT, do I believe there are others that have taken up that banner at the NFL level far more vested in a similar cause? Absolutely.  And as I've pointed out those men have a track record of work to improve their own communities.   (Malcolm Jenkins being a prime example) 

Hell, for all the flak I just wrote about Kaep, at least he is on record donating good money to certain charitable foundations not including his own.    

List found here: 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/1/31/16956016/colin-kaepernick-donations-full-list-of-organizations-one-million-dollars

 

Whether or not we agree with the organizations that received money is your own business.    That being said,  the guy has put a large influx of cash into charity.  And before anyone goes off saying it's a drop in the bucket compared to what has or will make, it's still significantly more than anyone here has contributed. 

I'll also ask this - if the man hated America and our veterans, why would he have taken the meeting with Nate Boyer, listened and utilized his guidance if that were so 'absolutely' true?   Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground.   Territory I feel I operate in quite frequently.  

I'm glad Kaepernick does some good things. I'm glad for him. A person can be sincere and be sincerely wrong at the same time. I don't believe he has sacrificed so much for his protests as he has gotten wealthy over them. More responsible people try to make a difference without being offensive to others. As you bring up my age I remember Martin Luther King having a much better unifying message in trying to bring the country together over being divisive as we see too many times today. 

[tiamat63]

6 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I'm glad Kaepernick does some good things. I'm glad for him. A person can be sincere and be sincerely wrong at the same time. I don't believe he has sacrificed so much for his protests as he has gotten wealthy over them. More responsible people try to make a difference without being offensive to others. As you bring up my age I remember Martin Luther King having a much better unifying message in trying to bring the country together over being divisive as we see too many times today. 

 

No offense but if that is your theme, then you really should also make mention of how the leader of the free world biffed on his opportunity to not only bring about a sense of unity and calm, but instead started out by calling NFL players/Americans/citizens "sons a bitches".  

Lets be real, there is more civility and level headed minds on this board.    We've watched our leaders make a mockery of how we should communicate with one another over issues.   Trump and Clinton are recent examples.  

[OldBrownsFan]

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

 

No offense but if that is your theme, then you really should also make mention of how the leader of the free world biffed on his opportunity by calling NFL players/Americans/citizens "sons a bitches".  

Lets be real, there is more civility and level headed minds on this board.    We've watched our leaders make a mockery of how we should communicate with one another over issues.   Trump and Clinton are recent examples.  

I try to call balls and strikes with Trump. He has done some good things policy wise for the country which I support but he also says some things that cannot be defended. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

No offense but if that is your theme, then you really should also make mention of how the leader of the free world biffed on his opportunity to not only bring about a sense of unity and calm, but instead started out by calling NFL players/Americans/citizens "sons a bitches".  

the trouble is, the fake twist you are doing, like all you liberals do.

  He DID NOT ALL NFL PLAYERS/AMERICANS/CITIZENS "sons a bitches".

This is a big problem. He called those who KNEEL, and disrespect our Flag and Anthem and Country and Military and First Responders,

that.

    and how can you be an American without being a citizen? Those are not separate categories.

 

[tiamat63]

3 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

the trouble is, the fake twist you are doing, like all you liberals do.

  He DID NOT ALL NFL PLAYERS/AMERICANS/CITIZENS "sons a bitches".

This is a big problem. He called those who KNEEL, and disrespect our Flag and Anthem and Country and Military and First Responders,

that.

    and how can you be an American without being a citizen? Those are not separate categories.

 

When you're ready to own up to the needless insults you dropped on me previously we'll talk. 

[calfoxwc]

yet you have insulted me on the Browns side with impunity - I only return it, try never to start it.

Get yer ego in check.

I'll take that as a run from the point I made.

Congrats to me !

[tiamat63]

5 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

yet you have insulted me on the Browns side with impunity - I only return it, try never to start it.

Get yer ego in check.

I'll take that as a run from the point I made.

Congrats to me !

Never did that until you and Z put words into my mouth and you went  (still are) on a tirade about my saying Chubb needed to focus on fundamentals ...  which btw reared their head on Sunday especially in pass pro.  

Even then I cleared myself up and my stance.  You continued, I didn't. 

So either you can clean it up or play billy badass.   I'm happy to move forward or offer you my personal info and we can clear up the "bitch" comments as another matter.  Either way you can admit it was over the line or that you're a coward.  No where in between. 

[Canton Dawg]

I’m still trying to figure out what sacrifice Kapperdick made?

Did he go to the south side of Chicago and try to keep a few blacks from killing a few blacks over the weekend?

 

[calfoxwc]

"blah blah, arrogant blah, pouty blah, etc." Tiam

***************************************

yeah, you mad, bro. Z and I found serious fault with your appraisal of Dayes being a superior rb to Chubb, completely ignored my point about Chubb being a rookie, and Dayes NOT being a rookie, and I said they were just very different players, etc etc etc.

Then Dayes got CUT, dude. Like Zombo said, Chubb "somehow" made the roster.

   you have gone way, way out of line arrogance at anyone like me who just disagrees with you.

If I return a favor of ridicule, I didn't start it.

Dayes, who I did say I liked, still hasn't been signed by any NFL team yet.

Have a nice day.

[MLD Woody]

27 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

When you're ready to own up to the needless insults you dropped on me previously we'll talk. 

Good luck

[tiamat63]

25 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

"blah blah, arrogant blah, pouty blah, etc." Tiam

***************************************

yeah, you mad, bro. Z and I found serious fault with your appraisal of Dayes being a superior rb to Chubb, completely ignored my point about Chubb being a rookie, and Dayes NOT being a rookie, and I said they were just very different players, etc etc etc.

Then Dayes got CUT, dude. Like Zombo said, Chubb "somehow" made the roster.

   you have gone way, way out of line arrogance at anyone like me who just disagrees with you.

If I return a favor of ridicule, I didn't start it.

Dayes, who I did say I liked, still hasn't been signed by any NFL team yet.

Have a nice day.

 

Just let me know when you want to chat in person, maybe even at a Brownies game.  We'll get this settled.   

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

So either you can clean it up or play billy badass.   

did someone call for the billybounce?

[Clevfan4life]

this kind of danceoff is what i envision now when cal gets into it with the younger guys

[calfoxwc]

you holdin a grudge, bro?

for a long while, I knew you would diss me for simply talking football. Didn't bother me much.

You know you have been told that you need to get off your arrogant/superiority train by a few others in the past, not talkin about me. I have all sorts of dumb opinions, and a good number of them are even smart. But to get all pouty because you are disagreed with, well, I don't get that at all.

     You aren't too experienced in whatever, to be immune from being wrong, Tiam, nor too knowledgeable to be disagreed with. But talkin about me being a coward...LOL... you really don't warrant serious get-together to talk football or anything else.

Have a nice day.

 

[StinkHole]

5 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Except that the hooker should be a gay dude.

[StinkHole]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:35 AM, Clevfan4life said:

. Point is that like richard simmons, trump is a raging flamboyant homosexual. 

Stuart

Then you should really like him.

[StinkHole]

5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I try to call balls and strikes with Trump. He has done some good things policy wise for the country which I support but he also says some things that cannot be defended. 

Stuart

What he does vs. what he says?

Actions do speak louder than words...except to whiney butt Trump hating liberals.

[StinkHole]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Is your world always this black and white?    I fail to see how someone over twice my age stands that rigid in their line of thinking.  After all, you're supposed to be a bit more...seasoned than myself.  

That said I believe Kaep to be a bit of a hypocrit anyway.   The Castro shirt, the socks, saying he'll stand after being released.     The guy is the face of his "cause" but really I think his support of it is what is convenient to him.   BUT, do I believe there are others that have taken up that banner at the NFL level far more vested in a similar cause? Absolutely.  And as I've pointed out those men have a track record of work to improve their own communities.   (Malcolm Jenkins being a prime example) 

Hell, for all the flak I just wrote about Kaep, at least he is on record donating good money to certain charitable foundations not including his own.    

List found here: 

https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/1/31/16956016/colin-kaepernick-donations-full-list-of-organizations-one-million-dollars

 

Whether or not we agree with the organizations that received money is your own business.    That being said,  the guy has put a large influx of cash into charity.  And before anyone goes off saying it's a drop in the bucket compared to what has or will make, it's still significantly more than anyone here has contributed. 

I'll also ask this - if the man hated America and our veterans, why would he have taken the meeting with Nate Boyer, listened and utilized his guidance if that were so 'absolutely' true?   Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground.   Territory I feel I operate in quite frequently.  

Stuart

OBF said this:

"What these kneelers don't seem to understand is that Americans gave their lives so they could have the freedom to play a game of football for a living. "

"It's either they don't understand or they don't care. Take your pick."

To which you responded by babbling about his donating to charity.  The relevance?

Secondly, if indeed his donations are a drop in the bucket compared to what he has or will make, then what sacrifice has he really made?

He donated a lot because he can.

Him donating doesn't make him the special person you make him out to be. I would venture to say that most athletes donate to charitable causes.

It's too bad your arguments in trying to defend this scumbag have no relevance to the flag issue...good try though.