disconnect with reality in this board on bounty hunter/Kitchens and the search....

[Tacosman]

 

In non-browns board world, the consensus seems to be that these two were never going to be serious candidates for the position and their interviews are just courtesy interviews

as you often see in these situations.

In brownsboard world, bounty hunter is the favorite for the position.  And he dominated the league after taking over...instead of going 5-3 against a weaker half of the schedule where the advanced metrics suggested not even average play.  

[Canton Mike]

Just an observation...If you didn't see a vastly improved level of play "post hue", you're a damned blind fool!

I apologize for being overly subtle.

Mike

[Tacosman]

1 minute ago, Canton Mike said:

Just an observation...If you didn't see a vastly improved level of play "post hue", you're a damned blind fool!

I apologize for being overly subtle.

Mike

not sure where you got the idea I didn't.....never implied as such.  None of it changes what I wrote though

[bjh2130]

I haven't seen anyone saying that Greg Williams and or Freddy kitchen are the favorite for the job I've seen people say they would like to keep them but most on here know that it's only a token interview. However we were asked for permission to interview Freddie Kitchens by the Dolphins for their head coaching opening so not everyone in the outside world thinks it's just a crazy idea to interview him. They have no reason to give a token interview to him.

[Clevfan4life]

I think we should retain Kitchens as the OC at least....at all costs. If other teams are interviewing him for HC, well than maybe we should give him the HC spot and find another DC. The turn around on the offense is the only reason we didn't start taking long walks with our family on sundays instead of watching the game starting around oct sometime. Whatever it was that kicked that offense around needs to be retained at all costs. 

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

In non-browns board world, the consensus seems to be that these two were never going to be serious candidates for the position and their interviews are just courtesy interviews

as you often see in these situations.

In brownsboard world, bounty hunter is the favorite for the position.  And he dominated the league after taking over...instead of going 5-3 against a weaker half of the schedule where the advanced metrics suggested not even average play.  

So you're living in the non-Browns world? 

Remains to be seen what Dorsey decides- not Mr. Negative...  

[Louisville Slugger]

I dont see any coach that would be a vast improvement. I like Arians if we have to get a new coach but that's mainly to keep Baker in the same offense because he would probably keep Kitchens. I like William's intensity, but I'm not crazy about his defense. It would be interesting to see what he could do with an improved interior defensive line

[MaineDawg]

Arians as HC, Kitchens as OC/AHC, Leftwich as QB (continuity in the Arians tree), and Bowles as DC. 

Yes I know this is essentially the AZ staff from a few years ago...but their offense was pretty damn good then.

[Orion]

MaineDawg - Welcome!   Although I think Arians' chances are as good as Kitchens being our HC.   but that's just me.

[flyingfooldoug]

4 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

Blind as a stool

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

I haven't seen anyone saying that Greg Williams and or Freddy kitchen are the favorite for the job I've seen people say they would like to keep them but most on here know that it's only a token interview. However we were asked for permission to interview Freddie Kitchens by the Dolphins for their head coaching opening so not everyone in the outside world thinks it's just a crazy idea to interview him. They have no reason to give a token interview to him.

You are correct!  Nobody said they were the favorites.  Welcome to the World according to Taco that doesn't include reading comprehension...

[Flugel]

12 hours ago, Louisville Slugger said:

I dont see any coach that would be a vast improvement. I like Arians if we have to get a new coach but that's mainly to keep Baker in the same offense because he would probably keep Kitchens. I like William's intensity, but I'm not crazy about his defense. It would be interesting to see what he could do with an improved interior defensive line

Some good points made!

I don't think we've seen his defense since Mitchell got hurt. But if everybody would just rewind to what transpired prior to that point in the Raiders' game - I think they'd like the attack scheme specific to HEALTHY personnel they had on the field at the time. And when Mitchell finally returned, Ward was injured almost that entire time so we never saw that tandem together after we got off to a #1 ranking in turnovers/turnover differential.  It didn't feel like Williams was nearly as aggressive when we didn't have both.  We pressured Ben and Brees to the extent if we just made a freakin FG we won either game...  Ben had 5 or 6 turnovers. 

Our defense needs another edge rusher, DT and LB while more depth at corner would help.  That said, we have the money for FA and we have the draft volume to address much of this....

[Tacosman]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

You are correct!  Nobody said they were the favorites.  Welcome to the World according to Taco that doesn't include reading comprehension...

nonsense...there is a whole thread where several posters pontificate on how we may just be interviewing all these others to 'make it look right' and dorsey and williams are going to 

have a sit down where they hash it all out and get it done.  Pure fantasy.  

The farther bounty hunter gets from this organization the better.  Im not at all convinced though that there isnt still a small chance he won't be retained as DC.  He exhibits such delusional and grandiose thought content("I could have 6 HC jobs without even showing up for the interview") that he may actually feel another organization would want him as a head coach(they don't) and it's not a sure thing that with his history he could even latch on as a DC.....so coming back here as DC, if offered, would probably be better for him than being unemployed or a position coach...but who knows.

I'm all for a complete overhaul though

[choco]

One quarter of nfl teams are looking for a hc at this moment...perusing the names, there's gonna be a few unhappy franchises in 2 years. 

My main reason to lock in the status quo boils down to continuity, but for one specific reason...it's a very young team with a young QB. 

Sure, it's possible the browns can do better. Of course, the 'in' things is get a young offensive coach for the QB. But let's be honest, there's several names of ex- browns coaches, perceived as up and comers, that rolled in here, tried to learn hc and continue calling plays. The hc should be an administrator, manage and allow the staff under him to coach the players. At the very least, current staff is doing this...seemingly get along, and looked to be having fun.

Take a macro look on what just happened this year with this team...hard knocks, bakers (and other young players) emergence, the firings...and the important part...the galvanization of the locker room on a nice winning streak, making noise, breaking records, daring media attention, awoke a sleeping giant of a fan base....now, with huge expectations of winning and playoffs.

For these young players, this is all they know of the browns....hell, Landry is a vet and even he didn't know the Ravens are the old browns. There's a lot at stake with the psyche of this team, the players and the coaches. There's a lot of things that can go wrong if the next guy doesn't live up to the expectations the players have for whoever replaces 3G...and if the team starts slow next year, a mountain of holy hell is gonna reign down on Berea...

With 3G, we know what we have for now.  Sit them down and give them 2 years to appear in the Superbowl and a truckload of money. By that point, these young players will have grown up and may welcome a change then. Can't help but think at the moment, it's a unique situation where 3G can be effective managing the team to allow baker and Freddie to work together, learn together, and put the browns on the map.

 

$0.02

[calfoxwc]

no way the Browns lose Kitchens. No freaking way. My guess is, behind the scenes, Dorsey will bring in someone from outside only if

1. there is a problem with Williams hard line style and the rest of the coaching staff and players.

2. Williams is spread too thin and stays DC if the new HC  wants him to.

But Kitchens does not leave the Browns. He's too perfect for the offense.

The LAST thing the Browns need, is a weeble HC who doesn't play aggressive, won't take chances, and takes the fun

out of playing the game.

[blitzz2]

When a OC steps in thats never called plays and develops a re pore with the players the way he did. There just has to be something special to Kitchens. As noted time and time again, the players responded, Baker Exploded, and Browns football became fun and relevant once again. If Haslam can't see this, then he is a (or is) a fool.(Hopefully he doesn't devote to much time to his new partnership with the Columbus Crew)  As for Williams, sometimes 2nd chances are all you need. He's been down the road once be4 and has a perfect opportunity in Cleveland to leave a huge mark.  Seems the players really respond to this staff, and with a few more pieces (DT, A Cerebral LB, CB) They will have all the pieces to succeed for years to come.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Tacosman said:

nonsense...there is a whole thread where several posters pontificate on how we may just be interviewing all these others to 'make it look right' and dorsey and williams are going to 

have a sit down where they hash it all out and get it done.  Pure fantasy.  

The farther bounty hunter gets from this organization the better.  Im not at all convinced though that there isnt still a small chance he won't be retained as DC.  He exhibits such delusional and grandiose thought content("I could have 6 HC jobs without even showing up for the interview") that he may actually feel another organization would want him as a head coach(they don't) and it's not a sure thing that with his history he could even latch on as a DC.....so coming back here as DC, if offered, would probably be better for him than being unemployed or a position coach...but who knows.

I'm all for a complete overhaul though

I'll start with the only positive I can find for you with your comment about Williams putting way too much Hollywood on how many teams want to hire him for their situation.  YAHTZEE!

Having said that, I read the entire thread about Interviews where I don't see several posters saying they are just going to interview a bunch of guys to make it look right before Dorsey hires Williams. 

I do recall some previous discussions about what we'll do after the season is over during the last 4-5 games or so. Those were if-then scenarios. Some guys DID post if this team finishes with a winning record for the duration of Williams' 8 games as Interim Head Coach - they don't want to see us hiring a new HC that wants to hire his own staff and fire the group of coaches that just brought us a 5-3 finish in what feels like the first time in forever.  I'm one of them but I don't recall that being popular opinion. I got the sense many wanted to see who would be considered and who would be interested (to show us what type of attraction the job is today). I also got the sense they wanted to see what would unfold. 5-3 football unfolded while guys like Perriman and Robinson came here and played the best football of their careers.  A lot of 1st and 2nd year players also improved, which is a sign the coaching is pretty good as inconvenient as that is for you to accept.

I think what's twisting your nipples right off your chest here is you made so many negative predictions that it became a conflict of interest for you to root for this team and all these players (you boldly wrote off and insulted as soon as Dorsey drafted/signed them).  And we can also include Sashi for his mortal sin of drafting Peppers you feel so compelled to hope you are right about.  The reason you don't see ANY progress or understand the electricity in Cleveland this year is because you don't want to.  You'd prefer to be right so you just keep trying to convince yourself of that in all the threads.  Telling me you're all for the complete overhaul after the current Interim HC and new OC just went 5-3 is a classic reminder of how little you understand the bigger picture. Players finally WANT to be in Cleveland and are excited about what they are building rather than dreaming about greener grass elsewhere.  That's epic progress and you couldn't GET that if you tried.   You blow this staff up that these kids are buying into right now and it puts all of that right up in smoke.   No thanks!  I'll be here if I'm wrong.  Will you? You usually disappear when this team is winning unless you're worried there's people complimenting Peppers...

 

[tiamat63]

If we're looking for a coach longterm, I see no issue why Williams - at 60 years old, would turn down a 3 year contract that listed Kitch as HCIN thus giving the chance to groom our guys in house.   This would also establish something we've not had in my lifetime - coaching continuity. 

Just something Dorsey would think about I hope.

[Dutch Oven]

39 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

If we're looking for a coach longterm, I see no issue why Williams - at 60 years old, would turn down a 3 year contract that listed Kitch as HCIN thus giving the chance to groom our guys in house.   This would also establish something we've not had in my lifetime - coaching continuity. 

Just something Dorsey would think about I hope.

Continuity? The Browns?

The hell you say! 

[runyon27]

6 hours ago, Tacosman said:

nonsense...there is a whole thread where several posters pontificate on how we may just be interviewing all these others to 'make it look right' and dorsey and williams are going to 

have a sit down where they hash it all out and get it done.  Pure fantasy.  

The farther bounty hunter gets from this organization the better.  Im not at all convinced though that there isnt still a small chance he won't be retained as DC.  He exhibits such delusional and grandiose thought content("I could have 6 HC jobs without even showing up for the interview") that he may actually feel another organization would want him as a head coach(they don't) and it's not a sure thing that with his history he could even latch on as a DC.....so coming back here as DC, if offered, would probably be better for him than being unemployed or a position coach...but who knows.

I'm all for a complete overhaul though

This post is funny. Its not like Greg Williams was a bum out on the street, untouchable before we made him DC. He was let go as part of the Rams overhaul. And BTW the Rams defense was better under Williams then it has been under Phillips and McVeigh. I like wins, when Williams coached he won, players responded to the discipline he brought.  I would like to keep him either as HC or DC, if I can only keep one, I keep Kitchens.

[Tour2ma]

This thread is the equivalent of bursting into a bar and yelling, "I'll fight the biggest guy in the room!"

[flyingfooldoug]

6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

This thread is the equivalent of bursting into a bar and yelling, "I'll fight the biggest guy in the room!"

That’s exactly how our QB operates. 

Who said it? 

“Baker Mayfield enters a room and looks for the biggest fight”

[lodilobo]

While it is always a good idea to interview as many applicants as possible, to me, it defies logic to hire anyone other than Williams as HC, and try to retain Kitchens as OC. We have a team that has been a perennial loser since it's beginning with a couple exception here and there. We finally find a coaching chemistry that produces wins, players who resemble real NFL players, not lethargic individuals playing at half speed. This is something that we haven't seen in forever. We have a "dangerous" qb, a young,talented defense, and appear to be a very good team, improving. So...why in the Hell would you destroy that, to bring some college coach or a washed up big name NFL coach in here, not knowing the results? We already know what we have with Williams and Kitchen, and it will only improve with a few new players at key positions. If we hire Josh McDaniels or some other idiot, he is sure to want his own staff. Then he will want his own players, his own defensive game plan, his own offensive game plane, etc. What we have is working, but in it's infancy. To destroy that based on hope would be stupid. I don't care if a lot of people don't like Williams. How many people like Bellichik?....Parcells? Whatever they do will be acceptable, because Dorsey might know slightly more than I do, but if it blows up in our faces, and we are looking at less wins in 2019, I will be here to say "I told you so".

[hoorta]

On 1/1/2019 at 11:18 AM, Tacosman said:

nonsense...there is a whole thread where several posters pontificate on how we may just be interviewing all these others to 'make it look right' and dorsey and williams are going to 

have a sit down where they hash it all out and get it done.  Pure fantasy.  

1) The farther bounty hunter gets from this organization the better.  Im not at all convinced though that there isnt still a small chance he won't be retained as DC.  He exhibits such delusional and grandiose thought content("I could have 6 HC jobs without even showing up for the interview") that he may actually feel another organization would want him as a head coach(they don't) and it's not a sure thing that with his history he could even latch on as a DC.....so coming back here as DC, if offered, would probably be better for him than being unemployed or a position coach...but who knows.

2) I'm all for a complete overhaul though

1) Bountygate was six years ago. Williams paid his dues for conspiring in that scheme. So you're trying to tell me people can't change. FWIW, if the Browns don't retain Williams, he's certain to get at least a couple Head Coaching interviews from other teams based on his 5-2 interim record with the Browns. 

2) Sure, we've had more complete overhauls and blow up of the coaching staff and Front Office than I can count. I had to look it up, since 1999, the Browns have gone through 10 head coaches, rivaling the number of names on that Quarterback jersey, one every two years on the average. So we're finally are seeing some inkling of progress and you want to "blow it all up again?" Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Sean McVays don't grow on trees, and you have to be damn lucky to guess right on an up and comer. Ask the Broncos how Josh McDaniels worked out. Williams just might be one of the coaches who works out the second time around. Belichick and Carroll sure did. 

If you're interested, you'll have to go back to 1947 to find ten coaches the Steelers have had since. 

[Clevfan4life]

because of kitchens we went from 24th to 13th in total offense. On defense we went from 14th to 30th. It's clear who we absolutely must retain and who can walk if we have better candidates

[Clevfan4life]

how more people aren't miffed about dropping 16 spots on the total team defense is beyond me. 

[flyingfooldoug]

13 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

how more people aren't miffed about dropping 16 spots on the total team defense is beyond me. 

But we won more. I think the Texans game skewed the numbers some. And another example where you can’t get the whole story on a stat line

[Clevfan4life]

13 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

But we won more. I think the Texans game skewed the numbers some. And another example where you can’t get the whole story on a stat line

well yeah, we won more cause we went from 24th to 13th in offense in essentially not a complete season because until Hue and Haley were fired, even with Baker the offense was so so. If that offense we saw the last 6 or so games had been there from the start, or at least from a 2-3 games in...we'd be in the playoffs. 

[Clevfan4life]

if you guys are ok with the 30th ranked defense in the league going into next year when it's very conceivable we can step on the entire AFC north's neck....

[flyingfooldoug]

1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said:

well yeah, we won more cause we went from 24th to 13th in offense in essentially not a complete season because until Hue and Haley were fired, even with Baker the offense was so so. If that offense we saw the last 6 or so games had been there from the start, or at least from a 2-3 games in...we'd be in the playoffs. 

One thing on the D. We didn’t give up a ton of points. Injuries in the secondary didn’t help either. I figure a little more, better talent will do wonders next year. Blake was the one calling D plays after the hue flu too