Mark O Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, hoorta said: I'll buy Tia's argument that his listed 5' 11" is grossly overstated. The Combine will tell... Could be right. I think he just looks small and skinny, more like Manziel than Brees/Wilson/Mayfield who despite not being tall, look to be solidly built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 He’s going to run a sub 4.4, with elite quickness. Good quick feet is one of the most important traits for a QB to have. He can drop dimes from ridiculous angles, and he has an arm. Don’t sleep on this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 The major question isn't what he would make at the beginning though. It's what he could make over the course of his career. I don't think hes going in thinking he will fail. And the other thing is how much of a price do you put on health. You are going to get hurt, question is when, how bad, and how often. Brady has been about the healthiest you will see, and he missed a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Mark O said: He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL. Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors. Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball. Since the Athletics got permission to sign him to 40 man roster to entice him to stick with baseball i assumed they were going to do that. Something like a 14 million dollar contract. Per ESPN "MLB rules prohibit players from signing major league contracts, which place players on the 40-man roster, out of the draft. Teams are not allowed to sign amateur players to minor league deals, then immediately give them major league deals, because the latter would be an inducement to sign and a circumvention of the league's finite draft pools. In Murray's case, because he signed a minor league deal, and because his performance at Oklahoma changed the circumstances of his baseball career, Oakland would be within the rules to give Murray a long-term extension if that's what it takes to keep him in baseball, sources tell ESPN. Even with a major league deal, Murray would likely begin his career at High-A Stockton, sources told ESPN." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: He's insane. MLB contracts are guaranteed, baseball players have longer careers with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less stress on their bodies, and when they hit 50 years old they won't need to be in a nursing home because of early on-set dementia caused by head injuries. He must love football way more than baseball, because if he likes the sports even remotely the same, it is idiotic to pick football over baseball. I'm not too worried about him. His uncle Calvin played pro baseball and will give him good advice. Here he is at bat against the Big Unit. 🧐😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said: I'm not too worried about him. His uncle Calvin played pro baseball and will give him good advice. Here he is at bat against the Big Unit. 🧐😁 Wait there was a Calvin Murray who played basketball and he was a great player and who was only like 5 foot nine. Or was that Calvin Murphy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 11:38 PM, The Gipper said: Wait there was a Calvin Murray who played basketball and he was a great player and who was only like 5 foot nine. Or was that Calvin Murphy Yeah, that was Calvin Murphy 5' 9", also Spud Webb 5' 7", and he won the NBA dunk contest. Great- or just "pretty good"? BTW, researching this, the shortest player in NBA history was Muggsy Bogues, at all of 5'3"- even blocked a shot by the 7' Patrick Ewing. But the shortest NFL QB of recent memory was Doug Flutie at 5' 10". The list of QBs under 6' is mighty short... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 First things first, I loved the back and forth thoughtful discussion between Dutch and Mark. Very entertaining to say the least. I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth (mjp, I'm looking at you). Anyway, you guy missed a point. Something that would make Murray not an idiot, but a genius. Maybe he is not aiming for an NFL high paid career, Maybe he wants something more... Maybe he wants to reach the promised land... Maybe he is one of those chosen ones, the most fortunate guys on Earth. The smartest of the bunch... A backup QB career. My idols. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 The Jets!! 👀 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Nero said: I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth I'm confused Nero... If Murray took the baseball money, why would he have to play soccer? 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leebladedawg Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I don’t think Murray is stupid for wanting to give it a shot, if he lands in right spot with right coach he could be viable not saying he will of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 If Murray goes the NFL route then 1 of 2 unacceptable things happened. Either the A’s didn’t do their due dilligence to make sure the guy intended to play baseball, or he severely misled them about his post college intentions. It’s not super uncommon that a 2 sport athlete could be drafted by MLB and NFL. If anyone remembers, Johnny Manziel was drafted as a shortstop by San Diego, l think. But they used a really low pick because they knew his intention was to play football. However, before an MLB team burns their number 1 pick on a guy, there are usually conversations held between teams and players to discern what they plan to do. In baseball, players have options. They could go to or stay in college, they could go to Japan, or forego sports altogether and go for whatever career they studied for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 11 hours ago, hoorta said: Yeah, that was Calvin Murphy 5' 9", also Spud Webb 5' 7", and he won the NBA dunk contest. Great- or just "pretty good"? BTW, researching this, the shortest player in NBA history was Muggsy Bogues, at all of 5'3"- even blocked a shot by the 7' Patrick Ewing. But the shortest NFL QB of recent memory was Doug Flutie at 5' 10". The list of QBs under 6' is might short... There was a very short QB that I thought played for the Lions...or somebody back in the 50s/60s.....who I thought was like 5'8. But it was not Bobby Layne. I checked and he was 6'1". But.....I found him: Eddie LeBaron: 5'7" Played for Redskins and Cowboys. Passing Year Age Career 7 yrs 4 yrs 1952 22 1953 23 1955* 25 1956 26 1957* 27 1958* 28 1959 29 1960 30 1961 31 1962* 32 1963 33 Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 134 85 28-54-3 898 1796 50.0 13399 104 5.8 141 7.9 85 7.5 5.1 14.9 100.0 61.4 13 13 21 7 yrs WAS 82 57 23-32-2 539 1104 48.8 8068 59 5.3 88 8.0 82 7.3 4.8 15.0 98.4 57.8 9 11 4 yrs DAL 52 28 5-22-1 359 692 51.9 5331 45 6.5 53 7.7 85 7.7 5.6 14.8 102.5 67.2 4 2 21 1952 22 WAS QB 14 12 7 1-6-0 96 194 49.5 1420 14 7.2 15 7.7 70 7.3 5.3 14.8 118.3 65.7 2 2 1953 23 WAS QB 14 12 8 4-3-1 62 149 41.6 874 3 2.0 17 11.4 66 5.9 1.1 14.1 72.8 28.3 3 3 1955* 25 WAS QB 14 12 8 4-4-0 79 178 44.4 1270 9 5.1 15 8.4 70 7.1 4.4 16.1 105.8 50.5 2 2 1956 26 WAS qb 14 10 5 3-2-0 47 98 48.0 554 3 3.1 10 10.2 33 5.7 1.7 11.8 55.4 36.2 1 1 1957* 27 WAS QB 14 12 12 5-6-1 99 167 59.3 1508 11 6.6 10 6.0 82 9.0 7.7 15.2 125.7 86.1 0 1 1958* 28 WAS QB 14 12 10 4-6-0 79 145 54.5 1365 11 7.6 10 6.9 71 9.4 7.8 17.3 113.8 83.3 1 1 1959 29 WAS QB 14 12 7 2-5-0 77 173 44.5 1077 8 4.6 11 6.4 49 6.2 4.3 14.0 89.8 54.0 0 1 1960 30 DAL QB 14 11 10 0-9-1 111 225 49.3 1736 12 5.3 25 11.1 76 7.7 3.8 15.6 157.8 53.5 1 0 5 1961 31 DAL QB 14 14 10 2-8-0 120 236 50.8 1741 14 5.9 16 6.8 80 7.4 5.5 14.5 124.4 66.7 3 2 6 1962* 32 DAL QB 14 14 6 3-3-0 95 166 57.2 1436 16 9.6 9 5.4 85 8.7 8.1 15.1 102.6 95.4 8 1963 33 DAL qb 14 13 2 0-2-0 33 65 50.8 418 3 4.6 3 4.6 75 6.4 5.3 12.7 32.2 67.3 2 13 comebacks, 13 game-winning drives - full summary This 5'7 QB made the Pro Bowl 4 times 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Nero said: First things first, I loved the back and forth thoughtful discussion between Dutch and Mark. Very entertaining to say the least. I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth (mjp, I'm looking at you). You play soccer no....so yes...you play the most boring sport on Earth. Anyway, you guy missed a point. Something that would make Murray not an idiot, but a genius. Maybe he is not aiming for an NFL high paid career, Maybe he wants something more... Maybe he wants to reach the promised land... Maybe he is one of those chosen ones, the most fortunate guys on Earth. The smartest of the bunch... A backup QB career. My idols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 hours ago, gumby73 said: The Jets!! 👀 🤣 Yea, WTF is up with that. It does look like he was following a fly or a gnat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: There was a very short QB that I thought played for the Lions...or somebody back in the 50s/60s.....who I thought was like 5'8. But it was not Bobby Layne. I checked and he was 6'1". But.....I found him: Eddie LeBaron: 5'7" Played for Redskins and Cowboys. Passing 13 comebacks, 13 game-winning drives - full summary This 5'7 QB made the Pro Bowl 4 times I knew you'd find the Danny Devito of quarterbacks. But I said recent memory. For the sake of argument, let's use the year Steeler fans use when the NFL started- 1970. There aren't any 5' 7" quarterbacks in the NFL anymore, just like there aren't any 220 pound defensive ends.... BTW, mucking around- Sonny Jurgensen was in the sub 6' club at 5' 11". But not Sammy Baugh at 6' 2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 6:09 PM, Mark O said: He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL. Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors. Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball. Baseball careers seem to last longer. On average a baseball player might make more money. The glamour is the NFL though. Bo knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said: Baseball careers seem to last longer. On average a baseball player might make more money. The glamour is the NFL though. Bo knows. Baseball career is almost definitely longer. Immediate money and chance to play in the big time is in the NFL. He's 3 years at least away from even being in major league baseball. That's a lot of bus rides and playing for peanuts as opposed to being a first round draft choice and being in the NFL. Will he have a long NFL career? No one knows. I doubt it because of his size but there's no guarantee he's making it to the majors either. First round draft picks in baseball flame out and are never heard from again much more often than they do in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 6:09 PM, Mark O said: He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL. Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors. Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball. Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Vagitron said: Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb. That's what I said. His career will be longer in baseball. But he isn't playing for the Oakland A's next season. Every baseball person I've heard says he will be playing for the Stockton A's in 2019 and best case scenario he ends the year in AA and then has a chance to play in Oakland in 2020. That's the best and fast tracked through the minor league system but there's no guarantees of that. Lots of first round baseball draft picks flame out and never make it to the majors. A much higher percentage than first round draft busts in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, Vagitron said: Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb. Bo Jackson said the same. It really boils down to doing what he loves. He’s clearly pretty amped up at the prospect of playing in the NFL right now. I guess success and the Heisman will do that to a guy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/96492338 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Vagitron said: Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb. Deion wasn’t a QB. If a QB does his job right(gets the ball out quick/slides before contact) and doesn’t have idiots blocking for him, he should be able to limit the blows that everyone loves talking about. Baker didn’t really take many “shots” last year, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 4:54 PM, LondonBrown said: Kyler Murray or Hue Jackson? *dont know how to do polls No need to do a poll. The answer is Hue. Zombo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 There are not many people I would pick over Huey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: Deion wasn’t a QB. If a QB does his job right(gets the ball out quick/slides before contact) and doesn’t have idiots blocking for him, he should be able to limit the blows that everyone loves talking about. Baker didn’t really take many “shots” last year, for example. Deion avoiding contact a lot. QBs cant help but so much how much they get hit, it is somewhat dependent position, as they are depending on line to block, and stationary at times. Also aren't a lot of late hits/ roughing on defenders. The odds of getting hit are exponentially higher for QBs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, Gunz41 said: Deion avoiding contact a lot. QBs cant help but so much how much they get hit, it is somewhat dependent position, as they are depending on line to block, and stationary at times. Also aren't a lot of late hits/ roughing on defenders. The odds of getting hit are exponentially higher for QBs What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others... Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others... Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. One really good blindside hit could send both careers into the shitter in a NY minute. Just use FB to leverage a better BB deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Mark O said: Baseball career is almost definitely longer. Immediate money and chance to play in the big time is in the NFL. He's 3 years at least away from even being in major league baseball. That's a lot of bus rides and playing for peanuts as opposed to being a first round draft choice and being in the NFL. Will he have a long NFL career? No one knows. I doubt it because of his size but there's no guarantee he's making it to the majors either. First round draft picks in baseball flame out and are never heard from again much more often than they do in the NFL. Don’t forget, baseball drafts players much younger than football. They generally need to wait a few years to finish growing. Baseball drafts kids. Football drafts grown men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 11 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others... Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. Murray has a little more quickness, but not anywhere close to speed of RG3 or Michael Vick, how did those work out. People seem to look at speed/quickness/strength in college and just think it translates the exact same to pros, but that isn't the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said: Don’t forget, baseball drafts players much younger than football. They generally need to wait a few years to finish growing. Baseball drafts kids. Football drafts grown men Of course they do...and in a lot of ways he's still a kid as well at only 21 years old. Immediately, there's more money in football. Long term (assuming he makes the majors and is as good as his draft position) he would play longer and make more money in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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