Who is the bigger idiot

[Mark O]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

I'll buy Tia's argument that his listed 5' 11" is grossly overstated. The Combine will tell...  

Could be right.   I think he just looks small and skinny, more like Manziel than Brees/Wilson/Mayfield who despite not being tall, look to be solidly built. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

He’s going to run a sub 4.4, with elite quickness.

Good quick feet is one of the most important traits for a QB to have. He can drop dimes from ridiculous angles, and he has an arm. Don’t sleep on this guy.

[Gunz41]

The major question isn't what he would make at the beginning though. It's what he could make over the course of his career. I don't think hes going in thinking he will fail.

And the other thing is how much of a price do you put on health. You are going to get hurt, question is when, how bad, and how often. Brady has been about the healthiest you will see, and he missed a season.

[bjh2130]

3 hours ago, Mark O said:

He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL.    Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors.   Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball.

Since the Athletics got permission to sign him to 40 man roster to entice him to stick with baseball i assumed they were going to do that. Something like a 14 million dollar contract.

Per ESPN

"MLB rules prohibit players from signing major league contracts, which place players on the 40-man roster, out of the draft. Teams are not allowed to sign amateur players to minor league deals, then immediately give them major league deals, because the latter would be an inducement to sign and a circumvention of the league's finite draft pools. In Murray's case, because he signed a minor league deal, and because his performance at Oklahoma changed the circumstances of his baseball career, Oakland would be within the rules to give Murray a long-term extension if that's what it takes to keep him in baseball, sources tell ESPN. Even with a major league deal, Murray would likely begin his career at High-A Stockton, sources told ESPN."

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

He's insane.

MLB contracts are guaranteed, baseball players have longer careers with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less stress on their bodies, and when they hit 50 years old they won't need to be in a nursing home because of early on-set dementia caused by head injuries.

He must love football way more than baseball, because if he likes the sports even remotely the same, it is idiotic to pick football over baseball.

 

I'm not too worried about him. His uncle Calvin played pro baseball and will give him good advice. Here he is at bat against the Big Unit. 🧐😁

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm not too worried about him. His uncle Calvin played pro baseball and will give him good advice. Here he is at bat against the Big Unit. 🧐😁

 

Wait there was a Calvin Murray who played basketball and he was a great player and who was only like 5 foot nine. Or was that Calvin Murphy

[hoorta]

On 1/14/2019 at 11:38 PM, The Gipper said:

Wait there was a Calvin Murray who played basketball and he was a great player and who was only like 5 foot nine. Or was that Calvin Murphy

Yeah, that was Calvin Murphy 5' 9", also Spud Webb 5' 7", and he won the NBA dunk contest.  Great- or just "pretty good"? BTW, researching this, the shortest player in NBA history was Muggsy Bogues, at all of 5'3"- even blocked a shot by the 7' Patrick Ewing.  But the shortest NFL QB of recent memory was Doug Flutie at 5' 10".  The list of QBs under 6' is mighty short...   

[Nero]

First things first, I loved the back and forth thoughtful discussion between Dutch and Mark. Very entertaining to say the least.

I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth (mjp, I'm looking at you).

Anyway, you guy missed a point. Something that would make Murray not an idiot, but a genius.

Maybe he is not aiming for an NFL high paid career,

 

Maybe he wants something more...

 

 

Maybe he wants to reach the promised land...

 

 

Maybe he is one of those chosen ones, the most fortunate guys on Earth. The smartest of the bunch...

 

 

A backup QB career. My idols.

[gumby73]

The Jets!! 

      👀 🤣

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, Nero said:

I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth

I'm confused Nero... If Murray took the baseball money, why would he have to play soccer? 😊

[leebladedawg]

I don’t think Murray is stupid for wanting to give it a shot,  if he lands in right spot with right coach he could be viable 

 

not saying he will of course 

[Ibleedbrown]

If Murray goes the NFL route then 1 of 2 unacceptable things happened. Either the A’s didn’t do their due dilligence to make sure the guy intended to play baseball, or he severely misled them about his post college intentions.

It’s not super uncommon that a 2 sport athlete could be drafted by MLB and NFL. If anyone remembers, Johnny Manziel was drafted as a shortstop by San Diego, l think. But they used a really low pick because they knew his intention was to play football.

However, before an MLB team burns their number 1 pick on a guy, there are usually conversations held between teams and players to discern what they plan to do. In baseball, players have options. They could go to or stay in college, they could go to Japan, or forego sports altogether and go for whatever career they studied for. 

[The Gipper]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, that was Calvin Murphy 5' 9", also Spud Webb 5' 7", and he won the NBA dunk contest.  Great- or just "pretty good"? BTW, researching this, the shortest player in NBA history was Muggsy Bogues, at all of 5'3"- even blocked a shot by the 7' Patrick Ewing.  But the shortest NFL QB of recent memory was Doug Flutie at 5' 10".  The list of QBs under 6' is might short...   

There was a very short QB that I thought played for the Lions...or somebody back in the 50s/60s.....who I thought was like 5'8.    But it was not Bobby Layne.  I checked and he was 6'1".

But.....I found him:   Eddie LeBaron:  5'7"  Played for Redskins and Cowboys.

Passing

 

Year	Age
Career
7 yrs
4 yrs
1952	22
1953	23
1955*	25
1956	26
1957*	27
1958*	28
1959	29
1960	30
1961	31
1962*	32
1963	33

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					134	85	28-54-3	898	1796	50.0	13399	104	5.8	141	7.9	85	7.5	5.1	14.9	100.0	61.4						13	13	21
7 yrs		WAS			82	57	23-32-2	539	1104	48.8	8068	59	5.3	88	8.0	82	7.3	4.8	15.0	98.4	57.8						9	11
4 yrs		DAL			52	28	5-22-1	359	692	51.9	5331	45	6.5	53	7.7	85	7.7	5.6	14.8	102.5	67.2						4	2	21
1952	22	WAS	QB	14	12	7	1-6-0	96	194	49.5	1420	14	7.2	15	7.7	70	7.3	5.3	14.8	118.3	65.7						2	2
1953	23	WAS	QB	14	12	8	4-3-1	62	149	41.6	874	3	2.0	17	11.4	66	5.9	1.1	14.1	72.8	28.3						3	3
1955*	25	WAS	QB	14	12	8	4-4-0	79	178	44.4	1270	9	5.1	15	8.4	70	7.1	4.4	16.1	105.8	50.5						2	2
1956	26	WAS	qb	14	10	5	3-2-0	47	98	48.0	554	3	3.1	10	10.2	33	5.7	1.7	11.8	55.4	36.2						1	1
1957*	27	WAS	QB	14	12	12	5-6-1	99	167	59.3	1508	11	6.6	10	6.0	82	9.0	7.7	15.2	125.7	86.1						0	1
1958*	28	WAS	QB	14	12	10	4-6-0	79	145	54.5	1365	11	7.6	10	6.9	71	9.4	7.8	17.3	113.8	83.3						1	1
1959	29	WAS	QB	14	12	7	2-5-0	77	173	44.5	1077	8	4.6	11	6.4	49	6.2	4.3	14.0	89.8	54.0						0	1
1960	30	DAL	QB	14	11	10	0-9-1	111	225	49.3	1736	12	5.3	25	11.1	76	7.7	3.8	15.6	157.8	53.5						1	0	5
1961	31	DAL	QB	14	14	10	2-8-0	120	236	50.8	1741	14	5.9	16	6.8	80	7.4	5.5	14.5	124.4	66.7						3	2	6
1962*	32	DAL	QB	14	14	6	3-3-0	95	166	57.2	1436	16	9.6	9	5.4	85	8.7	8.1	15.1	102.6	95.4								8
1963	33	DAL	qb	14	13	2	0-2-0	33	65	50.8	418	3	4.6	3	4.6	75	6.4	5.3	12.7	32.2	67.3								2

13 comebacks, 13 game-winning drives - full summary

This 5'7 QB  made the Pro Bowl  4 times

 

[The Gipper]

8 hours ago, Nero said:

First things first, I loved the back and forth thoughtful discussion between Dutch and Mark. Very entertaining to say the least.

I would take the Baseball money, though I had to play the most boring sport on Earth (mjp, I'm looking at you).

You play soccer no....so yes...you play the most boring sport on Earth.

Anyway, you guy missed a point. Something that would make Murray not an idiot, but a genius.

Maybe he is not aiming for an NFL high paid career,

 

Maybe he wants something more...

 

 

Maybe he wants to reach the promised land...

 

 

Maybe he is one of those chosen ones, the most fortunate guys on Earth. The smartest of the bunch...

 

 

A backup QB career. My idols.

 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, gumby73 said:

The Jets!! 

      👀 🤣

Yea, WTF is up with that.  It does look like he was following a fly or a gnat.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

There was a very short QB that I thought played for the Lions...or somebody back in the 50s/60s.....who I thought was like 5'8.    But it was not Bobby Layne.  I checked and he was 6'1".

But.....I found him:   Eddie LeBaron:  5'7"  Played for Redskins and Cowboys.

Passing

 

13 comebacks, 13 game-winning drives - full summary

This 5'7 QB  made the Pro Bowl  4 times

 I knew you'd find the Danny Devito of quarterbacks.  But I said recent memory.   For the sake of argument, let's use the year Steeler fans use when the NFL started- 1970.  There aren't any 5' 7" quarterbacks in the NFL anymore, just like there aren't any 220 pound defensive ends....  

BTW, mucking around- Sonny Jurgensen was in the sub 6' club at 5' 11".   But not Sammy Baugh at 6' 2".   

[flyingfooldoug]

On 1/14/2019 at 6:09 PM, Mark O said:

He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL.    Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors.   Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball.

Baseball careers seem to last longer. On average a baseball player might make more money. The glamour is the NFL though. Bo knows. 

[Mark O]

3 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Baseball careers seem to last longer. On average a baseball player might make more money. The glamour is the NFL though. Bo knows. 

Baseball career is almost definitely longer.   Immediate money and chance to play in the big time is in the NFL.   He's 3 years at least away from even being in major league baseball.  That's a lot of bus rides and playing for peanuts as opposed to being a first round draft choice and being in the NFL.   Will he have a long NFL career?  No one knows.   I doubt it because of his size but there's no guarantee he's making it to the majors either.  First round draft picks in baseball flame out and are never heard from again much more often than they do in the NFL.  

 

 

[Vagitron]

On 1/14/2019 at 6:09 PM, Mark O said:

He's going to make a shitton more money being drafted in the NFL.    Plus he won't have to go to the minor leagues and ride a bus for a few years before playing in the Majors.   Longer career most likely in baseball but I think I'd take the NFL money over baseball.

Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb.

[Mark O]

3 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb.

That's what I said.   His career will be longer in baseball.  But he isn't playing for the Oakland A's next season.  Every baseball person I've heard says he will be playing for the Stockton A's in 2019 and best case scenario he ends the year in AA and then has a chance to play in Oakland in 2020.   That's the best and fast tracked through the minor league system but there's no guarantees of that.   Lots of first round baseball draft picks flame out and never make it to the majors.  A much higher percentage than first round draft busts in the NFL. 

[Ibleedbrown]

43 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb.

Bo Jackson said the same. It really boils down to doing what he loves. He’s clearly pretty amped up at the prospect of playing in the NFL right now. I guess success and the Heisman will do that to a guy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/96492338

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

Is he? His career longevity will likely be longer in the mlb. Deion sanders said in hindsight he would have only played in the mlb.

Deion wasn’t a QB. If a QB does his job right(gets the ball out quick/slides before contact) and doesn’t have idiots blocking for him, he should be able to limit the blows that everyone loves talking about. 

Baker didn’t really take many “shots” last year, for example.

[Zombo]

On 1/14/2019 at 4:54 PM, LondonBrown said:

Kyler Murray or Hue Jackson? 

*dont know how to do polls

No need to do a poll.

The answer is Hue.

Zombo

[Browns149]

There are not many people I would pick over Huey

[Gunz41]

9 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Deion wasn’t a QB. If a QB does his job right(gets the ball out quick/slides before contact) and doesn’t have idiots blocking for him, he should be able to limit the blows that everyone loves talking about. 

Baker didn’t really take many “shots” last year, for example.

Deion avoiding contact a lot. QBs cant help but so much how much they get hit, it is somewhat dependent position, as they are depending on line to block, and stationary at times. Also aren't a lot of late hits/ roughing on defenders.

The odds of getting hit are exponentially higher for QBs

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

26 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Deion avoiding contact a lot. QBs cant help but so much how much they get hit, it is somewhat dependent position, as they are depending on line to block, and stationary at times. Also aren't a lot of late hits/ roughing on defenders.

The odds of getting hit are exponentially higher for QBs

What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others...

Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. 

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others...

Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. 

One really good blindside hit could send both careers into the shitter in a NY minute. Just use FB to leverage a better BB deal.

[flyingfooldoug]

20 hours ago, Mark O said:

Baseball career is almost definitely longer.   Immediate money and chance to play in the big time is in the NFL.   He's 3 years at least away from even being in major league baseball.  That's a lot of bus rides and playing for peanuts as opposed to being a first round draft choice and being in the NFL.   Will he have a long NFL career?  No one knows.   I doubt it because of his size but there's no guarantee he's making it to the majors either.  First round draft picks in baseball flame out and are never heard from again much more often than they do in the NFL.  

 

 

Don’t forget, baseball drafts players much younger than football. They generally need to wait a few years to finish growing. Baseball drafts kids. Football drafts grown men

[Gunz41]

11 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

What you say is true. What I’m saying is some guys do take a LOT more hits than others...

Murray certainly isn’t built to take too many big shots, but he’s so fast and quick that it will be a tall task to do such. 

Murray has a little more quickness, but not anywhere close to speed of RG3 or Michael Vick, how did those work out.

People seem to look at speed/quickness/strength in college and just think it translates the exact same to pros, but that isn't the case.

[Mark O]

4 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Don’t forget, baseball drafts players much younger than football. They generally need to wait a few years to finish growing. Baseball drafts kids. Football drafts grown men

Of course they do...and in a lot of ways he's still a kid as well at only 21 years old.   Immediately, there's more money in football.  Long term (assuming he makes the majors and is as good as his draft position) he would play longer and make more money in baseball.