Who is the bigger idiot

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

2 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Murray has a little more quickness, but not anywhere close to speed of RG3 or Michael Vick, how did those work out.

People seem to look at speed/quickness/strength in college and just think it translates the exact same to pros, but that isn't the case.

We’ll see when that 40 time comes out. I’d say his speed is pretty damn close. RG3 ran a 4.41, Vick a 4.33 and as low as a 4.25. He’s gotta be under 4.5.

Speed is not a requirement; especially with the QB position, but it gives the potential for nightmare matchups for opposing defenses.

Combine speed with a good arm? Combine that with a good brain? 

[Gunz41]

5 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

We’ll see when that 40 time comes out. I’d say his speed is pretty damn close. RG3 ran a 4.41, Vick a 4.33 and as low as a 4.25. He’s gotta be under 4.5.

Speed is not a requirement; especially with the QB position, but it gives the potential for nightmare matchups for opposing defenses.

Combine speed with a good arm? Combine that with a good brain? 

I'm not saying he couldn't be a good QB, I am saying that it doesn't prevent him from being hit and potentially injured. Those "hits" you brought up.

Look at it this way. Barry Sanders was quicker, he took shots, and was also not in a stationary position. Mike Vick took shots and he had more top end speed.  Look at a small slot receiver, that is the size of KM.

You seem to be speaking of him that he is less prone to being hit, where there is really no evidence in that. And if hit, he is smaller to withstand those hits. You think he will hold up well getting shots from Aaron Donald? Khalil Mack? Luke Kuechly?

If he inherited the 90's Cowboys OL, then he would be greatly protected. But Cardinals, Giants, Jaguars, Oakland? Those are not good lines.

Its really hard to compare guys now with even 10 years ago, as the offenses are so much more wide open. But one of the worst throwers of the football in memory, according to almost all is Tim Tebow. His college completion percentage, 66.4. To compare, KM, 67.4. Blake Bortles, 65.7.  So to say he has such a great arm, never know until he is in the league.

[Pat Mahomo]

Murray is giong to go 1/1 to Arizona.

[flyingfooldoug]

18 hours ago, Mark O said:

Of course they do...and in a lot of ways he's still a kid as well at only 21 years old.   Immediately, there's more money in football.  Long term (assuming he makes the majors and is as good as his draft position) he would play longer and make more money in baseball. 

Nope,you’re way off.  NBA, MLB and NHL all have higher average salary. The NFL is only ahead of MLS here. The wages for a average NFL player aren’t all that big. It the big name contracts that make it seem larger. I figure it’s the difference between strong unions( mlb, nba) and scab unions. 

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Nope,you’re way off.  NBA, MLB and NHL all have higher average salary. The NFL is only ahead of MLS here. The wages for a average NFL player aren’t all that big. It the big name contracts that make it seem larger. I figure it’s the difference between strong unions( mlb, nba) and scab unions. 

You would likely be  wrong then.  The NFL has over double the roster size of any of the other major team sports....so that is the major reason for lower individual salaries.  That plus the wide disparity in duties among the position.   An OG is not going to make as much as a QB or a good pass rusher.  It is simple math.  I suggest that if you look at the overall money that is paid out to the players on team rosters in each sport, the NFL could likely pay out a lot more than any of the other sports. 

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

Murray is giong to go 1/1 to Arizona.

A bit of a foolish statement don't you think?  

He won't be the first QB taken.  That will be Haskins.

[The Gipper]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236206/payroll-of-major-league-baseball-teams/

Above are payrolls in 2018 for Baseball. 

At the top>   SF Giants pay  221 million to its players.  At bottom...  Oakland As paid 65 million. and various amounts in between. The median amount is about 135 million

Could not find what each team actually pays, but for the NFL I found this:

The exact salary cap is dictated by the Players Association in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Under the current CBA, all sources of revenue, including television contracts, merchandise sales and ticket sales, are added up and divided among all 32 teams.

When the salary cap was first introduced in 1994, the cap was set to $34 million. The salary cap for the current NFL season is $177.2 million.

Spending requirements

There is a minimum amount of money that a team can put towards their caps. All 32 teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their caps (which this year is $157.7 M). This is called theminimum cash spend requirement, also known as the 89 percent rule.

So....if every NFL team paid the salary cap....they would be paying @42 million more than the median MLB team.  Even at the minimum it would be about 22 million more.

And it is just simple....that money is spread out between many more players.

[The Gipper]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-team-salaries-at-a-glance/

And in the NBA  player roster salary totals range from  144 million, paid by the Warriors....to 90 million paid by the Kings.

But here is an odd thing:

Highest salaries in both NBA and MLB...are by Bay area teams...Giants/Warriors.    And the lowest salaries are by essentially Bay area/NoCal  teams;  As and Kings.  

How bizarre.

So...in  essence, because of it minimum salary cap spending requirements....EVERY   NFL team spends more on its players than EVERY NBA team spends. 

[Mark O]

5 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Nope,you’re way off.  NBA, MLB and NHL all have higher average salary. The NFL is only ahead of MLS here. The wages for a average NFL player aren’t all that big. It the big name contracts that make it seem larger. I figure it’s the difference between strong unions( mlb, nba) and scab unions. 

How am I way off?   How much is he going to make playing for the Stockton A's in single A baseball next season?     Starting pay is between $1100 and 2100 per month.  Lets say because he's a first round pick he makes 10 grand a month for his minor league deal.  That's still peanuts compared to what his rookie contract as a first round pick in the NFL is worth.    I already posted what Jackson got as the 32nd pick in the first round.   The No. 32 overall pick signed his rookie contract Tuesday, the team announced. The deal, according to NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport, pays out $9.47 million with a $4.97 million signing bonus.   The signing bonus for being a first round NFL pick was higher than he got from the A's and his initial contract is much higher than hes going to get playing in single A and riding a bus through central California.

Explain to me again how I'm way off in saying that he would immediately make more money playing in the NFL than he will playing baseball.

[flyingfooldoug]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You would likely be  wrong then.  The NFL has over double the roster size of any of the other major team sports....so that is the major reason for lower individual salaries.  That plus the wide disparity in duties among the position.   An OG is not going to make as much as a QB or a good pass rusher.  It is simple math.  I suggest that if you look at the overall money that is paid out to the players on team rosters in each sport, the NFL could likely pay out a lot more than any of the other sports. 

The average wage is just that. The NBA does have a smaller roster.  Football May pay more overall because of roster size but that doesn’t put more green in the pocket of the average NFL lineman. Even though the star RB depends on that lineman for his yardage. Fair? Sure, why not?

[Dutch Oven]

12 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You would likely be  wrong then.  The NFL has over double the roster size of any of the other major team sports....so that is the major reason for lower individual salaries.  That plus the wide disparity in duties among the position.   An OG is not going to make as much as a QB or a good pass rusher.  It is simple math.  I suggest that if you look at the overall money that is paid out to the players on team rosters in each sport, the NFL could likely pay out a lot more than any of the other sports. 

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?

The point was that an average MLB player makes more than the average NFL player. 

What the overall team payrolls are has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate. 

[hoorta]

19 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

Murray is going to go 1/1 to Arizona.

No he's not- at least with Rosen on the roster. Damn debatable if he's a better prospect....  

7 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

The average wage is just that. The NBA does have a smaller roster.  Football May pay more overall because of roster size but that doesn’t put more green in the pocket of the average NFL lineman. Even though the star RB depends on that lineman for his yardage. Fair? Sure, why not?

NBA has a 12? man roster spread out over 82 games. The NFL has a 52 man roster over 16 games.  The math is pretty simple....   

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?

The point was that an average MLB player makes more than the average NFL player. 

What the overall team payrolls are has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate. 

Of course, it's what  Gip does...  Sure, once you make it to the Bigs, a scrub MLB player will make more than a scrub NFL player. Ditto that for anyone in the NBA.  But it's comparative value and roster size what dictates what the scrubs are going to get paid.   

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing?

The point was that an average MLB player makes more than the average NFL player. 

What the overall team payrolls are has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate. 

The hell it doesn’t. we’re talking about the total revenues of a team and how it has to be spread out among the players that play for that team. When you have 53 on the roster that is double the amount that a baseball team has. So obviously you have to try to spread similar money Because each of the leagues make similar money to double the players. what is it about that you don’t understand

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

No he's not- at least with Rosen on the roster. Damn debatable if he's a better prospect....  

NBA has a 12? man roster spread out over 82 games. The NFL has a 52 man roster over 16 games.  The math is pretty simple....   

Of course, it's what  Gip does...  Sure, once you make it to the Bigs, a scrub MLB player will make more than a scrub NFL player. Ditto that for anyone in the NBA.  But it's comparative value and roster size what dictates what the scrubs are going to get paid.   

I argue inorder to get things straight and . I don’t just argue to argue. If I argue with you it’s because 99.99% of the time I am right. 

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The hell it doesn’t. we’re talking about the total revenues of a team and how it has to be spread out among the players that play for that team. When you have 53 on the roster that is double the amount that a baseball team has. So obviously you have to try to spread similar money Because each of the leagues make similar money to double the players. what is it about that you don’t understand

The entire crux of this argument is that a person is or not nuts by deciding to choose playing football professionally over baseball. 

Arguments for baseball include: Less chance for catastrophic injury, better long-term health and a higher salary on average. 

YOU decided to muddy the ol' argument waters by throwing out overall payrolls by sports for reasons only you would understand. Multiple people then concluded that you did so solely for the sake of arguing. I believe it to be a sound theory. 

Edit: An average MLB player made $4.4 mill a season as of 2018, ALL OF WHICH IS GUARANTEED. An average NFL player made $1.9 mill a season as of 2018.  

[The Gipper]

48 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

The entire crux of this argument is that a person is or not nuts by deciding to choose playing football professionally over baseball. 

Arguments for baseball include: Less chance for catastrophic injury, better long-term health and a higher salary on average. 

YOU decided to muddy the ol' argument waters by throwing out overall payrolls by sports for reasons only you would understand. Multiple people then concluded that you did so solely for the sake of arguing. I believe it to be a sound theory. 

Edit: An average MLB player made $4.4 mill a season as of 2018, ALL OF WHICH IS GUARANTEED. An average NFL player made $1.9 mill a season as of 2018.  

Sure I muddied the water by bringing in the facts as to why a major league baseball player makes more on average than an NFL player. All I did was put context to whatever it was you were arguing about sorry if the truth got in the way of whatever it is you’re dealing with. It’s like you are saying God is dead and I don’t want to know anymore about it. Where I am telling you why he died

[Dutch Oven]

52 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Sure I muddied the water by bringing in the facts as to why a major league baseball player makes more on average than an NFL player. All I did was put context to whatever it was you were arguing about sorry if the truth got in the way of whatever it is you’re dealing with. It’s like you are saying God is dead and I don’t want to know anymore about it. Where I am telling you why he died

Nobody cares why baseball players get paid more than football players. That has NOTHING to do with this debate, but you felt the need to throw it in. 

A reason some people think that if things are relatively equal a person would be smart to choose baseball over football is the fact that baseball players, ON AVERAGE, make over twice a year more than football players. Only you would start to argue about why this is, when it has nothing to do with the original argument. 

I'm sure you'll respond again to this, and I'll just tell you now that I'm done. I've seen this act before. 

[ballpeen]

Just to thrown in my 2¢, assuming a player could have a equal type career as a player, in other words, not marginal in one and really good in the other, the smart move would be to play baseball.  You have a much longer time before your playing window closes, and the injury factor is greatly reduced.

 

If I could be a pro player in any sport, it would be golf.

 

They can set their schedule and take off any week they want and can still be playing for big bucks until they are 60 or so.  That's a 40 year playing career.

 

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Nobody cares why baseball players get paid more than football players. That has NOTHING to do with this debate, but you felt the need to throw it in. 

Well.....if you do not include the WHY....then you have a useless debate.  Yes...I was giving general knowledge on the subject....background if you will.  Information that is normally illuminating to a discussion even if it is not applicable to that specific narrow issue that you may have been discussing.   Not sure why you are opposed to having that information.  Nevertheless, welcome to the world of conversation.  Conversations do not remain static.  Perhaps you want your conversations to all be static and stale?

A reason some people think that if things are relatively equal a person would be smart to choose baseball over football is the fact that baseball players, ON AVERAGE, make over twice a year more than football players. Only you would start to argue about why this is, when it has nothing to do with the original argument. 

See my statement above. This is an information chat board.Talk can go in all directions.  No one is disputing that baseball players on average make more than football players. Why argue the inarguable.   I simply explained why:   Because a similar money pot in baseball is divided into fewer pieces than in football.

I'm sure you'll respond again to this, and I'll just tell you now that I'm done. I've seen this act before. 

So....are you saying that your desire to be ignorant of the broad picture is just as valuable as someone's desire to be knowledgeable about the whole picture.  Isaac Asimov had something to say about that.

 

[The Gipper]

53 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Just to thrown in my 2¢, assuming a player could have a equal type career as a player, in other words, not marginal in one and really good in the other, the smart move would be to play baseball.  You have a much longer time before your playing window closes, and the injury factor is greatly reduced.

 

If I could be a pro player in any sport, it would be golf.

 

They can set their schedule and take off any week they want and can still be playing for big bucks until they are 60 or so.  That's a 40 year playing career.

 

 

In a sense.....golf is the only true meritocracy in sport, that I know of  (maybe tennis too.)  You get paid more the better you perform.  You are not paid on past performance, or future potential....but on how you do here and now...this week.

(of course....this does not include compensation for endorsement deals or appearance fees for like tournaments in Dubai or Thailand)

[bjh2130]

18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

  No one is disputing that baseball players on average make more than football players. Why argue the inarguable.

There are people debating exactly that. But again you have an incessant need to be right. 

[WarriorsRpussies]

Thought Ghoolie 😤was going to one of the answers 

[Pat Mahomo]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:49 AM, The Gipper said:

A bit of a foolish statement don't you think?  

He won't be the first QB taken.  That will be Haskins.

I have no dog in the fight.  I assume you are an Ohio state fan.  I like Haskins.  I believe he’ll be the second QB off the board and be a top 5 pick if not 2nd overall.  Someone will trade into the top 5 for him.  

I do think Murray is the best in this group even if he is short. And I believe Arizona will trade Rosen and go with Murray.

[nickers]

On 1/18/2019 at 5:22 AM, Pat Mahomo said:

Murray is giong to go 1/1 to Arizona.

I actually think he'll be a mid second rounder or be Mr. Irrelevant...

[flyingfooldoug]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:58 AM, hoorta said:

No he's not- at least with Rosen on the roster. Damn debatable if he's a better prospect....  

NBA has a 12? man roster spread out over 82 games. The NFL has a 52 man roster over 16 games.  The math is pretty simple....   

Of course, it's what  Gip does...  Sure, once you make it to the Bigs, a scrub MLB player will make more than a scrub NFL player. Ditto that for anyone in the NBA.  But it's comparative value and roster size what dictates what the scrubs are going to get paid.   

And yet the nfl owners make waaaaaay more than the other sports team owners. 

[TexasAg1969]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:22 AM, Pat Mahomo said:

Murray is giong to go 1/1 to Arizona.

Let me see-a college HC who got his job at TT based on JM streetwalking his offense, plus Huey Bad News Brownie-ex plus a diminutive QB who will be broken apart with the first blindside hit from a 250 pro LB running a 4.5 40 speed right through him.

I see nothing that could go wrong here.  😱🤣

 

 

[The Gipper]

22 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

There are people debating exactly that. But again you have an incessant need to be right. 

Really. If they are arguing that where are the statistics that support it. Show me where Anywhere or football players make more on average than baseball players. I’m perfectly willing to see those statistics

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Pat Mahomo said:

I have no dog in the fight.  I assume you are an Ohio state fan.  I like Haskins.  I believe he’ll be the second QB off the board and be a top 5 pick if not 2nd overall.  Someone will trade into the top 5 for him.  

I do think Murray is the best in this group even if he is short. And I believe Arizona will trade Rosen and go with Murray.

I believe you’re comments  here means you have absolutely no credibility. I would wager a picture of margaritas that you were wrong

[TexasAg1969]

24 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I believe you’re comments  here means you have absolutely no credibility. I would wager a picture of margaritas that you were wrong

What did you expect from a MahOUmo fan?

[Mark O]

On 1/19/2019 at 5:12 AM, Dutch Oven said:

The entire crux of this argument is that a person is or not nuts by deciding to choose playing football professionally over baseball. 

Arguments for baseball include: Less chance for catastrophic injury, better long-term health and a higher salary on average. 

 

Totally agree.  Long term, more money in baseball assuming he makes it to the majors but no guarantee there that he does, plenty of first round picks don't make it.   Immediately, he will make more money playing in the NFL.