We Must Reject LGBTQ Craziness Becoming America's Accepted Nor

[tiamat63]

29 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Gay marriage passed by a 5-4 vote with Kennedy the deciding vote joining with the 4 liberal justices. Kennedy is gone now and if that vote were today the odds are it would have lost by a 5-4 decision. So this is not such a clear cut and dry issue but it is the law of the land now. Those 5 judges on the Supremes who made gay marriage the law of the land said those who are opposed to gay marriage as a matter of conscience have nothing to worry about. Justice Alito in his dissent questioned that and said we'll soon find out and he was right. Those same justices who said those who oppose gay marriage as a matter of conscience have nothing to worry about ruled against the Christian baker's conscience. The Supreme Court wouldn't even hear the case with the Christian florist. In both these cases these people did not hate gays but they felt (as I would also) being involved with gay marriage is participating and condoning it. The clerk in Kentucky who refused gay marriage licenses only wanted her name removed from the certificate as that bothered her conscience .

"I hate beets. They're disgusting and I don't see how anyone enjoys them.  If I were to ever start my own religion, one of the pillars of said faith would be banning the eating, imbibing or growing of beets.    For realsies, they're that bad. 

 

However my neighbor being legally allowed to put some best plants in his small victory garden is not only none of my MF bidness,  it's certainly does not force me to compromise my deeply held beliefs."

************************

What if said neighbor asked you to water his beets while he was on vacation...you might tell him your feelings about beets and ask him to find someone else? 

I appreciate your trying to find a counter example for the beets.  I do.   Came up quite a bit short once you peel the cosmetics of the question away though.   But I can tell that you put a great deal of effort into the attempted parallel for the bakery situation. 

My thoughts on that - If any business enjoys a tax incentive provided by state or local government I find it inherently wrong to deny any customer based on  protected status.  As those customers are taxpayers that make said breaks possible.  That is a fair thought financially, no? 

But the free market, limited government me loves the idea of a business accepting no tax incentive for the "right" To deny business for any reason.  At which point it's sure to be chaos but incredibly entertaining for me.   Then you will see the prevailing opinion and private spending power in this country will not be in the manner you wish.   Turn down a gay couple and that becomes public, next thing you know you have customers that won't spend their dollars there and vendors that will refuse to sell you raw materials, like they are legally within their right to do.  

I think the SC will shock you should that vote ever happen again. 

Look over the landscape part your front door and own nose.  Is that what you really want to see? 

 

Edit: the South is about a generation behind on everything so I accept that's where it will be the worst.  But good news, we'll find out how many businesses ban the Negroes but fly that flag they love to claim which stands for "heritage and not hate".

I would like to see the latter.  Like I said, sounds fun to me. 

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Baloney Woody...I am talking about the right to have a differing view on gay marriage without being penalized for that view.

Your freedom of religion isn't freedom from consequence. If you want to openly discriminate against gays, when the rest of society has moved on, you open yourself up to legal consequences... 

You have a right to have your view. 

You don't also get the right to not face any consequences for that view

[OldBrownsFan]

16 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

I appreciate your trying to find a counter example for the beets.  I do.   Came up quite a bit short once you peel the cosmetics of the question away though.   But I can tell that you put a great deal of effort into the attempted parallel for the bakery situation. 

My thoughts on that - If any business enjoys a tax incentive provided by state or local government I find it inherently wrong to deny any customer based on  protected status.  As those customers are taxpayers that make said breaks possible.  That is a fair thought financially, no? 

But the free market, limited government me loves the idea of a business accepting no tax incentive for the "right" To deny business for any reason.  At which point it's sure to be chaos but incredibly entertaining for me.   Then you will see the prevailing opinion and private spending power in this country will not be in the manner you wish.   Turn down a gay couple and that becomes public, next thing you know you have customers that won't spend their dollars there and vendors that will refuse to sell you raw materials, like they are legally within their right to do.  

I think the SC will shock you should that vote ever happen again. 

Look over the landscape part your front door and own nose.  Is that what you really want to see? 

 

Edit: the South is about a generation behind on everything so I accept that's where it will be the worst.  But good news, we'll find out how many businesses ban the Negroes but fly that flag they love to claim which stands for "heritage and not hate".

I would like to see the latter.  Like I said, sounds fun to me. 

"But the free market, limited government me loves the idea of a business accepting no tax incentive for the "right" To deny business for any reason.  At which point it's sure to be chaos but incredibly entertaining for me.   Then you will see the prevailing opinion and private spending power in this country will not be in the manner you wish.   Turn down a gay couple and that becomes public, next thing you know you have customers that won't spend their dollars there and vendors that will refuse to sell you raw materials, like they are legally within their right to do."

Memories Pizza GoFundMe Campaign Collects $842,387 For Indiana Couple Opposed To Gay Marriage

https://www.ibtimes.com/memories-pizza-gofundme-campaign-collects-842387-indiana-couple-opposed-gay-marriage-1869630

And this is Indiana not the deep south.....

[OldBrownsFan]

 

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Your freedom of religion isn't freedom from consequence. If you want to openly discriminate against gays, when the rest of society has moved on, you open yourself up to legal consequences... 

You have a right to have your view. 

You don't also get the right to not face any consequences for that view

Well what do you know Woody...your side isn't free to discriminate without consequences either:

Former Atlanta Fire Chief Awarded $1.2 Million For Being Fired After Expressing Christian Views Of Marriage

https://thefederalist.com/2018/10/18/former-atlanta-fire-chief-awarded-1-2-million-fired-expressing-christian-views-marriage/

 

 

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You keep repeating yourself but you're not furthering the point.  If you're using it as a distinction - should said distinction not be applied evenly for all non bearing couples?     Clearly it's an important matter to you. 

 

I'm still waiting to hear,  in your own words with zero links, quotes, passages or paraphrasing - how anyone's marriage,  regardless of gay or not, directly impacts yours.   

 

We'll proceed after you address that. 

Amen brother

[calfoxwc]

58 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Gay marriage passed by a 5-4 vote with Kennedy the deciding vote joining with the 4 liberal justices. Kennedy is gone now and if that vote were today the odds are it would have lost by a 5-4 decision. So this is not such a clear cut and dry issue but it is the law of the land now. Those 5 judges on the Supremes who made gay marriage the law of the land said those who are opposed to gay marriage as a matter of conscience have nothing to worry about. Justice Alito in his dissent questioned that and said we'll soon find out and he was right. Those same justices who said those who oppose gay marriage as a matter of conscience have nothing to worry about ruled against the Christian baker's conscience. The Supreme Court wouldn't even hear the case with the Christian florist. In both these cases these people did not hate gays but they felt (as I would also) being involved with gay marriage is participating and condoning it. The clerk in Kentucky who refused gay marriage licenses only wanted her name removed from the certificate as that bothered her conscience .

"I hate beets. They're disgusting and I don't see how anyone enjoys them.  If I were to ever start my own religion, one of the pillars of said faith would be banning the eating, imbibing or growing of beets.    For realsies, they're that bad. 

 

However my neighbor being legally allowed to put some best plants in his small victory garden is not only none of my MF bidness,  it's certainly does not force me to compromise my deeply held beliefs."

************************

What if said neighbor asked you to water his beets while he was on vacation...you might tell him your feelings about beets and ask him to find someone else? 

 

what if Tiam had a neighbor who gave him some pickled rotten beets and Tiam said " I don't like pickled rotten beets"...and then the hard core marxist sombeitch liberal sues him for discrimination to force Tiam to eat those damn beets?

[The Cysko Kid]

6 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

 

Well what do you know Woody...your side isn't free to discriminate without consequences either:

Former Atlanta Fire Chief Awarded $1.2 Million For Being Fired After Expressing Christian Views Of Marriage

https://thefederalist.com/2018/10/18/former-atlanta-fire-chief-awarded-1-2-million-fired-expressing-christian-views-marriage/

 

 

An important part of this story that you're leaving out for reasons I suspect amount to being convenient to your argument. Government is obligated to adhere to free speech where private institutions are not. 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

so, Tiam thinks beets and humping sheep is as normal as Real Marriage...

riiiiight.

Liberals feel instead of thinking.

[calfoxwc]

Just now, The Cysko Kid said:

An important part of this story that you're leaving out for reasons I suspect amount to being convenient to your argument. Government is obligated to adhere to free speech where private institutions are not.  

 

ah. so private businesses are allowed to fire someone or not hire someone because they are black....or gay....but not the government....

[The Cysko Kid]

3 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

ah. so private businesses are allowed to fire someone or not hire someone because they are black....or gay....but not the government....

You're confusing free speech with discrimination again. 

[The Cysko Kid]

I suspect that if the modern internet were around in the 60s you'd be bulldogging for governor wallace. 

[calfoxwc]

in sarcasm, sure. You all confuse biological gender with emotional/psychological illness, confuse perversion with normalcy, confuse a lot of things based on emotions.

     It is not discrimination to refuse to be forced by your liberal side government to violate your legitimately held religious beliefs.

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I suspect that if the modern internet were around in the 60s you'd be bulldogging for governor wallace. 

nope. Even if he was in ohio, I would never have. But inferring i'm a racist because it made fun of your nonsense point...

is just liberal emotional knee-jerkie.

[The Cysko Kid]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

in sarcasm, sure. You all confuse biological gender with emotional/psychological illness, confuse perversion with normalcy, confuse a lot of things based on emotions.

     It is not discrimination to refuse to be forced by your liberal side government to violate your legitimately held religious beliefs.

Sure. And it's not discrimination when everyone else on earth destroys your business in defense of their legitimately held beliefs that you're a scumbag for trampling on someone else's rights. 

[The Cysko Kid]

You don't even know a liberal from a conservative and a conservative from a bag of frogs. 

Your idea of a conservative is someone that participates in the group-think that you like while a dissenting opinion like homosexuals having the same rights as everyone else is liberalism.

That is incorrect. 

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Sure. And it's not discrimination when everyone else on earth destroys your business in defense of their legitimately held beliefs that you're a scumbag for trampling on someone else's rights. 

destroys? as in nazi brownshirt arson? some terrorist damage? lynches all your employees?  Files bogus lawsuits against you for

totally bogus reasons? really?

[The Cysko Kid]

Cal sometimes I honestly don't know why I still haven't given up on you. I mean talking to you feels ridiculous like conversing with a toad. Or an earthworm. 

Do you want to talk about Nazis now? Do you find it coincidental that the people who actually self identify as Nazis in this day and age would absolutely agree with every talking point you love? 

 

I don't think it's actually coincidental. 

[calfoxwc]

Just now, The Cysko Kid said:

You don't even know a liberal from a conservative and a conservative from a bag of frogs. 

Your idea of a conservative is someone that participates in the group-think that you like while a dissenting opinion like homosexuals having the same rights as everyone else is liberalism.

That is incorrect. 

you have no idea how to correctly understand anybody else's beliefs. You live on emotion - no critical thinking at all. But you don't think that YOU partifipate in "group-think" with the rest of those who condone perversion. Strange how the liberal emotions work. No logical thought at all. Homosexuals DO have the same rights. But they do not have MORE rights, like you on the left want them to have.

   Your gay rights END AT OTHER PEOPLE's RIGHTS. I know , you on the left HATE THAT FACT, but it's true. You can't tell the difference between:

a baker who is happy to sell gay people gays.

and

a baker who gets sued falsely because they demand he make a gay perverted cake.

the same baker, true story.

You want you on the left to be able to run over other peoples' beliefs, etc, because you want the power to control narratives - on this forum, in the media, in the liberal courts, in politics.

The rest of Real America doesn't buy into your bass-ward, pro-perversion, inside-out and upside-down socio-political movements.

Have a nice day.

[The Cysko Kid]

And as you've failed to acknowledge a dozen times in this thread alone I've said over and over and over again that I don't think anybody should be forced to take any business for any reason. Whether it's a Christian who refuses to make a cake for gays or a restraunt who refuses to serve Christians. 

But in either case they have to be willing to live with the repurcussions and that's what you're just not getting. I don't feel sorry for someone who, while in the course of acting like an asshole, gets sued for it. 

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Cal sometimes I honestly don't know why I still haven't given up on you. I mean talking to you feels ridiculous like conversing with a toad. Or an earthworm. 

Do you want to talk about Nazis now? Do you find it coincidental that the people who actually self identify as Nazis in this day and age would absolutely agree with every talking point you love? 

 

I don't think it's actually coincidental. 

that is just another emotional personal attack response. I'm calling you out on your emotional knee jerkie, and you emotional knee jerk.

seriously, you really think a toad or earthworm can type and outwit your asinine assumptions, and belligerent attacks and "positions" ?

too many cartoons, Cysko. Not real life. No wonder you hawk perversion of Real Marriage like the board woodpecker.

   No, I am comparing antifa to nazi brownshirts, pre-WWII, because their methodology is the same. Want me to post the specifics again?

https://www.weeklystandard.com/james-h-barnett/where-the-brownshirts-came-from

This is the approach readers must bring to Daniel Siemens's Stormtroopers: A New History of Hitler's Brownshirts, a superbly detailed account of the Sturmabteilung (SA), the main paramilitary wing of the Nazi party from its inception in 1920 until the consolidation of Hitler's power in 1934.

*************************************************************************  

do you see those bigger numbers in red? That is before WWII ever started. WWII started Sept 1, 1939.

go read up on the tactics of hate the brownshirts used on the Jews. Social/economic ostracization, and violence, taunting and lies.

If the shoe fits...and it does.

    

[calfoxwc]

5 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

And as you've failed to acknowledge a dozen times in this thread alone I've said over and over and over again that I don't think anybody should be forced to take any business for any reason. Whether it's a Christian who refuses to make a cake for gays or a restraunt who refuses to serve Christians. 

But in either case they have to be willing to live with the repurcussions and that's what you're just not getting. I don't feel sorry for someone who, while in the course of acting like an asshole, gets sued for it. 

But you want liberals to be able to define who is acting like an azwhole, not anybody else. You lefties demand control over the definition of terms.

Like gender. Like REAL MARRIAGE. like grounds for impeachment. why? because you lost the election? like "obstruction".

riiiight. It is NOT obstruction when your higgardly destroys 33,000 emails, AFTER THEY WERE SUBPOENAED, had a bunch of cell phones busted up and the chips destroyed, etc etc etc etc.

    But let Pres Trump complain about the fake news, and THAT is obstruction.

because you all lost the election. and you all do not respect other peoples opinions and faiths.

[calfoxwc]

11 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

And as you've failed to acknowledge a dozen times in this thread alone I've said over and over and over again that I don't think anybody should be forced to take any business for any reason. Whether it's a Christian who refuses to make a cake for gays or a restraunt who refuses to serve Christians. 

But in either case they have to be willing to live with the repurcussions and that's what you're just not getting. I don't feel sorry for someone who, while in the course of acting like an asshole, gets sued for it. 

except if it was you who gets the stupid lawsuit layed on YOU, you would be fine with it, or not? no, we all know you would not.

That is the liberal mentality - it's all fine unless it affects YOUR FEELINGS and YOUR RIGHTS....

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said:

"But the free market, limited government me loves the idea of a business accepting no tax incentive for the "right" To deny business for any reason.  At which point it's sure to be chaos but incredibly entertaining for me.   Then you will see the prevailing opinion and private spending power in this country will not be in the manner you wish.   Turn down a gay couple and that becomes public, next thing you know you have customers that won't spend their dollars there and vendors that will refuse to sell you raw materials, like they are legally within their right to do."

Memories Pizza GoFundMe Campaign Collects $842,387 For Indiana Couple Opposed To Gay Marriage

https://www.ibtimes.com/memories-pizza-gofundme-campaign-collects-842387-indiana-couple-opposed-gay-marriage-1869630

And this is Indiana not the deep south.....

Fantastic.  I love it.   Let people throw swaths of money at others to maintain their business should they begin losing customers over their beliefs whatever the form.

I'm positive it would take me about 30 seconds to dig up busisness's that have either closed or lost quite a bit from either something blatantly racist or discriminatory   I'm all for it.  Let everyone draw their line in the ground and see how far people are willing to go when their expenses are at reach (in this case)

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Fantastic.  I love it.   Let people throw swaths of money at others to maintain their business should they begin losing customers over their beliefs whatever the form.

I'm positive it would take me about 30 seconds to dig up busisness's that have either closed or lost quite a bit from either something blatantly racist or discriminatory   I'm all for it.  Let everyone draw their line in the ground and see how far people are willing to go when their expenses are at reach (in this case)

sure, you do, because your side is the activist politically correct side that is doing it. how convenient. Just like you're fine how Kavannagh was treated in the hearings. Like how Pres Trump was treated with lies and fake manufactured lies and the dnc paid for it and the FISA abuse....sure.

unless the shoe is on the other foot. THEN your emotional outrage will kick in. so convenient.

[OldBrownsFan]

28 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Fantastic.  I love it.   Let people throw swaths of money at others to maintain their business should they begin losing customers over their beliefs whatever the form.

I'm positive it would take me about 30 seconds to dig up busisness's that have either closed or lost quite a bit from either something blatantly racist or discriminatory   I'm all for it.  Let everyone draw their line in the ground and see how far people are willing to go when their expenses are at reach (in this case)

Like Chick Fil A? The left has thrown a lot of garbage their way yet they keep prospering.

https://www.inc.com/john-eades/why-chick-fil-a-is-crushing-the-competition-and-what-you-can-learn-from-it.html

[tiamat63]

32 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Like Chick Fil A? The left has thrown a lot of garbage their way yet they keep prospering.

https://www.inc.com/john-eades/why-chick-fil-a-is-crushing-the-competition-and-what-you-can-learn-from-it.html

Not everyone has that Polynesian sauce, sir.. 

[calfoxwc]

51 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Like Chick Fil A? The left has thrown a lot of garbage their way yet they keep prospering.

https://www.inc.com/john-eades/why-chick-fil-a-is-crushing-the-competition-and-what-you-can-learn-from-it.html

LOL

ZINGER ALERT !

[MLD Woody]

Sure, Chick-fil-A is fantastic. As long as they're not actively discriminating against who they serve based on protected statuses, let the owner have free speech and deal with whatever consequences that brings. 

 

[calfoxwc]

Birds Choice Suet-Sandwich Wood Pecker Feeder ... - Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Birds-Choice-Suet-Sandwich-Pecker.../dp/B001OE5GKU

Rating: 3.3 - ‎11 reviews

This feeder is designed to allow woodpeckers, with their long tongue and bill to reach the suet, but thwart grackles and starlings, the big suet raiders......and it ...

[The Cysko Kid]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

except if it was you who gets the stupid lawsuit layed on YOU, you would be fine with it, or not? no, we all know you would not.

That is the liberal mentality - it's all fine unless it affects YOUR FEELINGS and YOUR RIGHTS....

Simply put I wouldn't deny any one services based on almost anything. They would literally have to be flying a Nazi flag or whatever the equivalent is in other cultures.  I have what's called tact.