US military hangs their heads in shame

[Westside Steve]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

They (Turkey) also purchased the S400 missile system from Russia.  How they hell are they part of Nato is beyond me.

Don't the Brits purchase a lot of gas and oil from the ruskies?

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

More than likely.  I think all of Europe gets 30-40 percent of their gas from our brother Russians.

 

[jbluhm86]

6 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

 

 

Donald J. Trump

32 mins · 

Just spoke to President Erdogan of Turkey. He told me there was minor sniper and mortar fire that was quickly eliminated. He very much wants the ceasefire, or pause, to work. Likewise, the Kurds want it, and the ultimate solution, to happen. Too bad there wasn’t this thinking years ago. Instead, it was always held together with very weak bandaids, & in an artificial manner. There is good will on both sides & a really good chance for success. The U.S. has secured the Oil, & the ISIS Fighters are double secured by Kurds & Turkey. I have just been notified that some European Nations are now willing, for the first time, to take the ISIS Fighters that came from their nations. This is good news, but should have been done after WE captured them. Anyway, big progress being made!!!!

I'm sure the Kurds will still be more than happy to hold on to the ISIS fighters for the US after we abandoned them to get ragdolled by the Turks and Russians.

I'm not saying that the Democrats would do any better, but the Trump administration's handling of this whole situation has been an embarrassing failure from the jump. 

[Vambo]

53 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

I'm sure the Kurds will still be more than happy to hold on to the ISIS fighters for the US after we abandoned them to get ragdolled by the Turks and Russians.

I'm not saying that the Democrats would do any better, but the Trump administration's handling of this whole situation has been an embarrassing failure from the jump. 

Well someone had to stop the madness of the never ending war...anyone who feels the Kurds got the short end are free to go there and support them, there is nothing holding them from doing so.   They will be happy to train them and put them in place where needed.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

11 minutes ago, Vambo said:

Well someone had to stop the madness of the never ending war...anyone who feels the Kurds got the short end are free to go there and support them, there is nothing holding them from doing so.   They will be happy to train them and put them in place where needed.

Thats not the way you trieat allies.

[Vambo]

3 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Thats not the way you trieat allies.

Which Allies? 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

The Kurds.  Look it up.

[Vambo]

3 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

The Kurds.  Look it up.

How long should we stay there?  When should we have left?

Are you willing to go there or send your family members there to help the Kurds?

[Vambo]

Trump to Withdraw U.S. Forces From Syria, Declaring ‘We Have Won Against ISIS’

 

Image

American Special Forces soldiers in February in northern Syria. “Our boys, our young women, our men — they’re all coming back, and they’re coming back now,” President Trump declared in a video posted Wednesday evening on Twitter.CreditCreditMauricio Lima for The New York Times

By Mark Landler, Helene Cooper and Eric Schmitt

• Dec. 19, 2018
• https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/politics/trump-syria-turkey-troop-withdrawal.html

[DieHardBrownsFan]

18 minutes ago, Vambo said:

How long should we stay there?  When should we have left?

Are you willing to go there or send your family members there to help the Kurds?

I spent over 22 years in the military and was over in the middle east.  How about you?  

[Vambo]

1 minute ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I spent over 22 years in the military and was over in the middle east.  How about you?  

Thanks for your service.

Nope,  didn't feel the need lost a lot of friends to wars.  So you are quite qualified to step right in to help the Kurds.

I don't want anyone to  have to fight in a war let alone one where we have nothing to gain the money and man power could be put to better use here in the USA.

 

Turkey–United States relations are bilateral relations between Turkey and the United States. ... After participating with United Nations forces in the Korean War, Turkey joined the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in 1952.

 

Turkey is an important U.S. security partner. Turkey has been a valued North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Ally since 1952. ... Turkey contributes to international security alongside U.S. forces in Afghanistan, the seas bordering Somalia, and in the Mediterranean.Mar 27, 2019

 

So which Allies do we defend?  How long should we have stayed?  Do you feel the Kurds are worth you going back?  Do you feel there will ever be peace there?

[Vambo]

What over 600,000 people killed and over 14,000,000 displaced how are we saving lives?

[Vambo]

Timber Sycamore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore

Timber Sycamore was a classified weapons supply and training program run by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and supported by some Arab intelligence services, such as the security service in Saudi Arabia. Launched in 2012 or 2013, it supplied money, weaponry and training to rebel forces fighting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian Civil War. According to US officials, the program was run by the CIA's Special Activities Division ^[6] has trained thousands of rebels.^[7][8]President Barack Obama secretly authorized the CIA to begin arming Syria’s embattled rebels in 2013.^[9]

The program's existence was suspected after the US Federal Business Opportunities website publicly solicited contract bids to ship tons of weaponry from Eastern Europe to Taşucu, Turkey and Aqaba, Jordan.^[10]One unintended consequence of the program has been a flood of US weapons including assault rifles, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades into Middle East's black market.

 

[OldBrownsFan]

I'm hesitant to fault Trump because of all the piling on of criticism he gets from a corrupt media and hypocrite democrats but in this instance I think he pulled out too abruptly and should have tried to do something for the Kurds before pulling the troops out. The kurds have been our ally in the fight against ISIS and were the ones who did most of the heavy lifting in Syria in defeating ISIS. Turkey is a NATO ally in name only since Erdogan has taken over the country. I would trust Turkey today under Erdogan about as much as I would trust Iran.  Trump to his credit is keeping campaign promises in pulling out of Syria and I agree with his general statement we are getting bogged down in too many wars. I only fault him for leaving Syria too abruptly.

[FairHooker11]

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

12 hours ago, Vambo said:

Well someone had to stop the madness of the never ending war...anyone who feels the Kurds got the short end are free to go there and support them, there is nothing holding them from doing so.   They will be happy to train them and put them in place where needed.

 

12 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

That's not the way you treat allies.

Amen DH!

Vambo: Don't listen to any of us vets. Just listen to Mitch, trump's protector in the Senate.  His answer to your predicament (and all of ours) is right there. Freedom is never free unfortunately. Go see my article on "The British Are Coming" in the Barber Shop. Every generation in charge of keeping us free often has a high price to pay. Just thank God we still have Americans willing to do that. They are all inheritors from the Greatest Generation. And every time I come across one, I always thank them. And when my new next door neighbor told me he was retiring from the Army next month, I found out what his favorite drink was, sought out and found a very difficult brand of bourbon to locate and presented it to him as my "Thank you for your service to our country" gift with a handshake from a grateful vet. I spared no expense for that bottle and he knew it. I wanted him to know an older generation vet understood and appreciated his sacrifice.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/10/18/mitch-mcconnells-op-ed-rebuking-trumps-withdrawal-syria/4027149002/

 

[OldBrownsFan]

10 minutes ago, FairHooker11 said:

 

 

I don't know what to make of Lindsey Graham anymore. As the democrat House runs free to trample all over Trump why doesn't Graham hold some investigative hearings in the Senate to look at the other side of the story? Trump makes a lot of sense here but I still think we should have tried to work out some deal to protect the Kurds before leaving. I get tired of the wailing and crying from the hypocrite dems over this because I know they would have cheered Obama if he did the same thing. What George Bush did in the middle east was a disaster. The lesson we should learn is we have one true ally in the region, Israel. We should support them and keep clear of involvement with Muslim countries and their wars.The mess we have on our hands with  Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan should have taught us that lesson.

[TexasAg1969]

15 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I don't know what to make of Lindsey Graham anymore. As the democrat House runs free to trample all over Trump why doesn't Graham hold some investigative hearings in the Senate to look at the other side of the story? Trump makes a lot of sense here but I still think we should have tried to work out some deal to protect the Kurds before leaving. I get tired of the wailing and crying from the hypocrite dems over this because I know they would have cheered Obama if he did the same thing. What George Bush did in the middle east was a disaster. The lesson we should learn is we have one true ally in the region, Israel. We should support them and keep clear of involvement with Muslim countries and their wars.The mess we have on our hands with  Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan should have taught us that lesson.

OBF-see Mitch's answer in the op ed above vis a vis pulling out prematurely. We are where we are and it's too late to Monday Morning Quarterback it. All we can do is not repeat Obama's fool move. Trump doesn't know history so Mitch has to teach him what it is and how it applies now. Mitch is one of the few people he may actually listen to, but at the moment it does not appear so. You and I both know that a consolidation after taking an objective is taking place during this ridiculous "peace plan" of a 5 day cease fire. Trump never served so he does not even know the meaning of a military consolidation. It was in Infantry School 101. I took that class.LOL!😁

EDIT: Here's a little primer on a smaller scale, but it works exactly the same way for a larger overall objective. (see the 6th one on the list under "Offense")

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-71/ch6.htm

[OldBrownsFan]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

OBF-see Mitch's answer in the op ed above vis a vis pulling out prematurely. We are where we are and it's too late to Monday Morning Quarterback it. All we can do is not repeat Obama's fool move. Trump doesn't know history so Mitch has to teach him what it is and how it applies now. Mitch is one of the few people he may actually listen to, but at the moment it does not appear so. You and I both know that a consolidation after taking an objective is taking place during this ridiculous "peace plan" of a 5 day cease fire. Trump never served so he does not even know the meaning of a military consolidation. It was in Infantry School 101. I took that class.LOL!😁

Even before Obama's fool move to pull the troops out of Iraq that left a vacuum that ISIS filled Bush made the mistake of going to war with Iraq that led to costly nation building. Obama should have left troops in Iraq only because we had invested so much there we needed to protect our investment. (Although you might make the argument we were only throwing good money out for bad anyway). Trump is right that we need to stay out and let Turkey and Syria fight their own wars. He is also right that Turkey, Syria and Russia hate ISIS as much as we do and they have an interest to keep ISIS from re-forming. We accomplished our goal of taking back all the land from ISIS. The snag though is I agree with others we did owe the Kurds something for doing the heavy lifting in taking back all the territory in Syria from ISIS. I would have liked to have seen some negotiations to try to do that before we pulled out the troops. Turkey is a NATO ally in name only. Under Erdogan in reality they are our enemy as much as Iran.We have way too many problems at home to spend trillions of dollars on countries that don't even like us when we could be using that money here for our own needs such as badly needed infrastructure. Trump here is mostly right IMO.

[Vambo]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 

Amen DH!

Vambo: Don't listen to any of us vets. Just listen to Mitch, trump's protector in the Senate.  His answer to your predicament (and all of ours) is right there. Freedom is never free unfortunately. Go see my article on "The British Are Coming" in the Barber Shop. Every generation in charge of keeping us free often has a high price to pay. Just thank God we still have Americans willing to do that. They are all inheritors from the Greatest Generation. And every time I come across one, I always thank them. And when my new next door neighbor told me he was retiring from the Army next month, I found out what his favorite drink was, sought out and found a very difficult brand of bourbon to locate and presented it to him as my "Thank you for your service to our country" gift with a handshake from a grateful vet. I spared no expense for that bottle and he knew it. I wanted him to know an older generation vet understood and appreciated his sacrifice.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/10/18/mitch-mcconnells-op-ed-rebuking-trumps-withdrawal-syria/4027149002/

 

Just because you're a Vet doesn't automatically make you right.

[hammertime]

11 minutes ago, Vambo said:

Just because you're a Vet doesn't automatically make you right.

I’m very thankful for all who have served, but it can cement a point of view that is not correct.

Tex is the perfect example.  His hate and background makes it damn near impossible for him to even see the other side.  Hence, baby steps.

[jbluhm86]

What gets me is that the people that say we shouldn't involve ourselves in the Middle East to support the Kurds are the same people who say we should involve ourselves in the Middle East to support Israel. Both are in the Middle East, and both are US allies.

[OldBrownsFan]

Just now, jbluhm86 said:

What gets me is that the people that say we shouldn't involve ourselves in the Middle East to support the Kurds are the same people who say we should involve ourselves in the Middle East to support Israel. Both are in the Middle East, and both are US allies.

What do you mean by involvement? Going to war? I have said all along that we should have negotiated a settlement to protect the kurds because they have been our allies but not by going to war with Turkey. Trump going with economic sanctions against Turkey is the right response to punish Turkey. 

[TexasAg1969]

37 minutes ago, Vambo said:

Just because you're a Vet doesn't automatically make you right.

You missed my point. I said DON'T listen to any of us.

I'm more interested in your reaction to McConnell's Op Ed. What do you think about what he said?

[TexasAg1969]

28 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I’m very thankful for all who have served, but it can cement a point of view that is not correct.

Tex is the perfect example.  His hate and background makes it damn near impossible for him to even see the other side.  Hence, baby steps.

So how did yours get so cemented?😂

Baby steps hammertime, baby steps.😁

[OldBrownsFan]

17 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

So how did yours get so cemented?😂

Baby steps hammertime, baby steps.😁

 

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 

Amen DH!

Vambo: Don't listen to any of us vets. Just listen to Mitch, trump's protector in the Senate.  His answer to your predicament (and all of ours) is right there. Freedom is never free unfortunately. Go see my article on "The British Are Coming" in the Barber Shop. Every generation in charge of keeping us free often has a high price to pay. Just thank God we still have Americans willing to do that. They are all inheritors from the Greatest Generation. And every time I come across one, I always thank them. And when my new next door neighbor told me he was retiring from the Army next month, I found out what his favorite drink was, sought out and found a very difficult brand of bourbon to locate and presented it to him as my "Thank you for your service to our country" gift with a handshake from a grateful vet. I spared no expense for that bottle and he knew it. I wanted him to know an older generation vet understood and appreciated his sacrifice.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/10/18/mitch-mcconnells-op-ed-rebuking-trumps-withdrawal-syria/4027149002/

 

Well, I'M A VET, TOO, and I strongly disagree with you. You ignore Col. Macgregor's opinion.

and, since you don't go for facts, read this anyways and try to THINK before you knee jerk:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19335/american-general-in-syria-confirms-us-forces-killed-hundreds-of-russians-in-massive-battle

American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle

US Army Brigadier General Jonathan Braga also said he was 'absolutely worried' the situation could have escalated in a bigger conflict.

By Joseph TrevithickMarch 16, 2018

[calfoxwc]

that is the US ARMY GRIGADIER GENERAL JONATHAN BRAGA in SYRIA.

See that?

In Syria.

[Vambo]

Syrian American group says Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize, US troops should come home

[OldBrownsFan]

18 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, I'M A VET, TOO, and I strongly disagree with you. You ignore Col. Macgregor's opinion.

and, since you don't go for facts, read this anyways and try to THINK before you knee jerk:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19335/american-general-in-syria-confirms-us-forces-killed-hundreds-of-russians-in-massive-battle

American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle

US Army Brigadier General Jonathan Braga also said he was 'absolutely worried' the situation could have escalated in a bigger conflict.

By Joseph TrevithickMarch 16, 2018

Interesting. There is almost always two sides to a story. That is usually not the case with our corrupt media. They like to run with the narratives they like and ignore or minimize stories that goes against their narrative. This is a good case in point. This general's views get some air time on Fox but unlikely you will see this on the MSM. They like the narrative Trump abandoned the Kurds because it hurts him and whatever hurts Trump is a story they like to report on.