Westside Steve Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 20 hours ago, jbluhm86 said: What gets me is that the people that say we shouldn't involve ourselves in the Middle East to support the Kurds are the same people who say we should involve ourselves in the Middle East to support Israel. Both are in the Middle East, and both are US allies. I think a lot of that has to do with Party politics. There are those who hate Trump and will be irate no matter what he does. Let him bomb the Turks and watch how many people start screaming that they are a NATO Ally!. When you get right down to it the Kurds are pretty meaningless little bunch of people in the grand scope. They are allies when it benefits them as are most groups of people. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: Interesting. There is almost always two sides to a story. That is usually not the case with our corrupt media. They like to run with the narratives they like and ignore or minimize stories that goes against their narrative. This is a good case in point. This general's views get some air time on Fox but unlikely you will see this on the MSM. They like the narrative Trump abandoned the Kurds because it hurts him and whatever hurts Trump is a story they like to report on. sad, and very true. I see the "happy dedication to falsehoods" to emotionally manipulate opinion of the left. Just very strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 22 hours ago, jbluhm86 said: What gets me is that the people that say we shouldn't involve ourselves in the Middle East to support the Kurds are the same people who say we should involve ourselves in the Middle East to support Israel. Both are in the Middle East, and both are US allies. You have to look at the differences. The Kurds don't live in a UN established legal state. They MUST, eventually. But the UN is a hapless, corrupt black hole in history now. The Kurds haven't been persecuted for centuries and centuries, from the early history of the Middle East. Outside of Turkey hating them... the Kurds don't have countries/terrorist groups declaring that "the Kurds will be wiped off the map." Israel has several of them, most notably Iran, hamas, the plo, hezbullah,. etc. The hatred for the Jews is based on them refusing to leave their religion and culture and join up with the arabic/muslim groups. That is a fascinating history class in college right there. In the 70's, one of those years, our base was on alert for days over threats on Israel. Me and a Msgt manned the SAC phones for 24 hrs. Plenty of time to talk, trust me. He grew up a black kid on the poorer side of a small town in the south. The businesses hired the white kids on the other side. His Mom raised him in the church, and he was a good kid. but he couldn't find a job - there were none to be had for a poor black kid from the poor side of town. But, he said, Uncle Sam said he was as good as anyone else, skin color didn't matter. He said he dearly loved his Flag, his Country, everything about America. He said people are imperfect. But America - she was the perfect experiment in freedom for all, one of only a few in the world, and the greatest on earth. He said that poor kid was still there, in him, but he had a great career, wonderful wife, his Mom moved with them where they went, two beautiful daughters in medical college... life was good. America gave him everything he worked for. He talked about Israel - compared Israel to maybe being "a poor black kid on the poor side of town" - they also were good people, came from little, but worked so very hard and became a very, very successful country. And Uncle Sam made it possible for it to happen. You can learn a lot from listening to genuine people who have been places of the heart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 8:12 AM, OldBrownsFan said: I don't know what to make of Lindsey Graham anymore. As the democrat House runs free to trample all over Trump why doesn't Graham hold some investigative hearings in the Senate to look at the other side of the story? Trump makes a lot of sense here but I still think we should have tried to work out some deal to protect the Kurds before leaving. I get tired of the wailing and crying from the hypocrite dems over this because I know they would have cheered Obama if he did the same thing. What George Bush did in the middle east was a disaster. The lesson we should learn is we have one true ally in the region, Israel. We should support them and keep clear of involvement with Muslim countries and their wars.The mess we have on our hands with Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan should have taught us that lesson. I know right? now this https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/graham-changes-tunes-says-trump-policy-succeed-syria?fbclid=IwAR3b-Zt5NVMbn-k_md_1jE9mzpwy07BpGzkKtn1ZfNkKxvtmxS1Lb_jvQUQ the turtle (mcconnell) though is another story “I am increasingly optimistic that we can have some historic solutions in Syria that have eluded us for years if we play our cards right,” Graham said. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 14 hours ago, FairHooker11 said: I know right? now this https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/graham-changes-tunes-says-trump-policy-succeed-syria?fbclid=IwAR3b-Zt5NVMbn-k_md_1jE9mzpwy07BpGzkKtn1ZfNkKxvtmxS1Lb_jvQUQ the turtle (mcconnell) though is another story “I am increasingly optimistic that we can have some historic solutions in Syria that have eluded us for years if we play our cards right,” Graham said. To be honest guys efforts to turn the Middle East into a Jeffersonian democracy complete with Walmart McDonald's and Dollar General stores haven't been very successful over the last century or so. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: To be honest guys efforts to turn the Middle East into a Jeffersonian democracy complete with Walmart McDonald's and Dollar General stores haven't been very successful over the last century or so. WSS Bush was trying to do a good thing bringing democracy to the Middle East but the results were a disaster and failure. I can't really fault him for trying but we need to learn the lessons of history and not repeat our mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: Bush was trying to do a good thing bringing democracy to the Middle East but the results were a disaster and failure. I can't really fault him for trying but we need to learn the lessons of history and not repeat our mistakes. What's that old saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions? WSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairHooker11 Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: To be honest guys efforts to turn the Middle East into a Jeffersonian democracy complete with Walmart McDonald's and Dollar General stores haven't been very successful over the last century or so. WSS yes - and grahams words play better to the audience than Freddy K's pressers do. (sorry coach) he has the luxury of using that fantasy to deflect what is really gonna happen. And not care or change to whatever winds are prevailing? not a hater and want to be hopeful for a good outcome for the president because I believe it is better to be out of the endless wars also. But you know, Saudi Arabia wants western tourist money, probably because the oil business is not so good anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, FairHooker11 said: yes - but grahams words play better to the audience than Freddy K's pressers do. (sorry coach) he has the luxury of using that fantasy to deflect what is really gonna happen. And not care or change to whatever winds are prevailing? not a hater and want to be hopeful for a good outcome for the president because I believe it is better to be out of the endless wars also. But you know, Saudi Arabia wants western tourist money, probably because the oil business is not so good anymore? Of course just wringing your hands and telling people how much you really really want [insert completely unrealistic ideology here] will garner a lot of praise. Saudi Arabia is a completely different animal than most of these places in the Middle East. Let's not forget that. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: Bush was trying to do a good thing bringing democracy to the Middle East but the results were a disaster and failure. I can't really fault him for trying but we need to learn the lessons of history and not repeat our mistakes. This brings to mind another example of liberal double talk. There are a lot of studies/opinion pieces out there suggesting that a Western style of democracy could never be attained in the ME due to the combination of many factors...religion, culture, history, theocratic governments, etc.. Enter the doubletalk - "Bush is such an idiot for trying to establish democracy in the ME. Because of the culture that is ingrained in these people, their values are not the same. They are so much different from us whiteys in the West. Yet when we criticize Islam, their abuse of women, their killing of gays, marrying children, the Koran and terrorism... It's " BUT BUT BUT we're all the same, we are all human, white people rape and murder too ya know...the Crusades...."Terrorists are mothers and fathers too" you bunch of Islamophobes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted October 21, 2019 Report Share Posted October 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Gorka said: This brings to mind another example of liberal double talk. There are a lot of studies/opinion pieces out there suggesting that a Western style of democracy could never be attained in the ME due to the combination of many factors...religion, culture, history, theocratic governments, etc.. Enter the doubletalk - "Bush is such an idiot for trying to establish democracy in the ME. Because of the culture that is ingrained in these people, their values are not the same. They are so much different from us whiteys in the West. Yet when we criticize Islam, their abuse of women, their killing of gays, marrying children, the Koran and terrorism... It's " BUT BUT BUT we're all the same, we are all human, white people rape and murder too ya know...the Crusades...."Terrorists are mothers and fathers too" you bunch of Islamophobes. Before the Iraq war I did not know the difference between a Shiite and Sunni Muslim.I wasn't familiar with their culture, values and background. In my mind I thought after we helped Iraq get rid of an evil dictator like Sadaam Hussein the Iraqi's would welcome us like France did when we liberated them from nazi Germany. That is a big reason I supported the Iraq war. It was a rude awakening when it didn't happen and then I saw it. No matter what we did to help them we were always going to be the infidels. Then I realized we are better off whenever possible to stay out of Muslim country's wars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 One further note in this Saga is the fact that the Kurds were erstwhile allies in what the left, and or the Democrats used to consider the most unjust war in American history since Vietnam. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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